Abandoning Big East has become a disaster for one-time powerhouses | The Boneyard

Abandoning Big East has become a disaster for one-time powerhouses

Pitt's decline was completely predictable. With no natural local recruiting region, no ex-Big East program was more dependent on a NYC pipeline than Pitt. Pitt could effectively recruit NYC when it was in the Big East because it would be playing SJU, SHU, Rutgers, Syracuse and UConn every year, but in the ACC, it has no advantage over any other major conference program recruiting the same players.

Howland and Dixon had built that program on NYC talent, and Dixon left Pitt for a glorified mid-major TCU program once he saw the writing on the wall. I do not think Pitt will ever return to its glory years unless a Top 20 recruit miraculously develops in Pittsburgh, which seems unlikely.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Pitt's decline was completely predictable. With no natural local recruiting region, no ex-Big East program was more dependent on a NYC pipeline than Pitt. Pitt could effectively recruit NYC when it was in the Big East because it would be playing SJU, SHU, Rutgers, Syracuse and UConn every year, but in the ACC, it has no advantage over any other major conference program recruiting the same players.

Howland and Dixon had built that program on NYC talent, and Dixon left Pitt for a glorified mid-major TCU program once he saw the writing on the wall. I do not think Pitt will ever return to its glory years unless a Top 20 recruit miraculously develops in Pittsburgh, which seems unlikely.
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But Capel is so much better than Hurley and was really their first choice all along. 🙄
 
In the end it was the schools of the c 7 that tried to destroyed
the conference.rightfully or wrongfully. The football schools knew it was leave or be relegated to G5 status.once the new ESPN contract was rejected. To be honest thec7 were most likely negotiating a separate deal with Fox before the Football schools left.
I will agree ND had no reason whatsoever to leave when the C7 left ( they left just like the FB schools the remnants became the AAC) , as they had more NYC fans than St John’s. plus a huge independent football income.
He failed to mention GT’s plight or Louisville , WVA, or Rutgers
 
AZHuskiePop said:
In the end it was the schools of the c 7 that tried to destroyed
the conference.rightfully or wrongfully. The football schools knew it was leave or be relegated to G5 status.once the new ESPN contract was rejected. To be honest thec7 were most likely negotiating a separate deal with Fox before the Football schools left.
I will agree ND had no reason whatsoever to leave when the C7 left ( they left just like the FB schools the remnants became the AAC) , as they had more NYC fans than St John’s. plus a huge independent football income.
He failed to mention GT’s plight or Louisville , WVA, or Rutgers
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That NY Post article pretty much says how I felt all along. Syracuse and Pitt left the Big East for the ACC, where they would always be considered the ugly step child. From just the basketball point of view, the ACC is owned by Duke, UNC, NC State, Virginia, as it should because of the long history and success those programs have in the ACC. Syracuse had that in the Big East. The Big East and the Tournament at MSG was part of their brand. UConn vs Syracuse on a Thursday night quarterfinal or Friday night semifinal was a main event in the sports world.

It really is a shame things couldn’t have been worked out back in 2011. That caused one heck of a domino effect. If the Big East stayed in tact, there probably would be no American Athletic Conference, or at least UConn wouldn’t be apart of it. All of that is water under the bridge now, whats done is done, but at least it seems like we have finally fallen on our feet and are on our way back to the top.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Pitt's decline was completely predictable. With no natural local recruiting region, no ex-Big East program was more dependent on a NYC pipeline than Pitt. Pitt could effectively recruit NYC when it was in the Big East because it would be playing SJU, SHU, Rutgers, Syracuse and UConn every year, but in the ACC, it has no advantage over any other major conference program recruiting the same players.

Howland and Dixon had built that program on NYC talent, and Dixon left Pitt for a glorified mid-major TCU program once he saw the writing on the wall. I do not think Pitt will ever return to its glory years unless a Top 20 recruit miraculously develops in Pittsburgh, which seems unlikely.
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I had intially looked at this from a different perspective. I know that much of their decision-making was due to football, but I figured these schools would continue to be able to recruit NYC and the rest of the Northeast by waving two games each with UNC, Duke and Virginia in front of recruits. The opposite appears to have occurred. In addition to these teams, the article doesn't even mention our friends in Chestnut Hill.
 
You know what's NOT a disaster.

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Syracuse, Pitt, and BC were reasonably predictable--Pitt and BC for reasons already covered. It is also not a surprise that Villanova was the main beneficiary of all this realignment nonsense. That Notre Dame has struggled so much is a bit odd.

I wonder if these fanbases still tell themselves that ACC money is the most important thing. I don't see Cuse, Pitt, or BC returning to extended, stable relevance. They'll be a flash in the pan here in there when they get a diamond in the rough recruit but they'll be middling programs for the most part.
 
I personally am so much more excited about basketball and the Big East. I am sure those programs have plenty of fans who are not happy in the ACC. For basketball they gave up MSG & NYC which was obviously disastrous. Even for football, they all had a chance of winning the Big East but are an afterthought in the ACC. I'd bet there are far more fans who hate the move than those who claim they like it. Fans on message boards bragging about P5 money are the minority.
 
Bottom line is this. In every conference in either football or basketball, you can only have 3 or 4 heavyweights in a sport, although the 3 to 4 can slowly change over time. (Remember when Tennessee was one of the elite football teams in the SEC?)

When the Big East was founded, the heavyweights were Georgetown, St. John's, and Syracuse. The heavyweight group then transitioned to UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville. Now, the Big East heavyweights are probably Villanova, UConn, and ?.

In the ACC right now, the heavyweights are Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, and Louisville. Look at Syracuse and Pitt's conference standing over the past 6 years:

Syracuse: 8th, 9th, T7th, T10th, 6th, T6th.

Pitt: T9th, T9th, T13th, T15th, T14th, T13th

It will be hard for Pitt to dig out of the ACC cellar. I do think Syracuse, once Boeheim retires, could compete for the upper echelon in the ACC again, but as we know, coaching hires can be very risky.
 
AZHuskiePop said:
In the end it was the schools of the c 7 that tried to destroyed
the conference.rightfully or wrongfully. The football schools knew it was leave or be relegated to G5 status.once the new ESPN contract was rejected. To be honest thec7 were most likely negotiating a separate deal with Fox before the Football schools left.
I will agree ND had no reason whatsoever to leave when the C7 left ( they left just like the FB schools the remnants became the AAC) , as they had more NYC fans than St John’s. plus a huge independent football income.
He failed to mention GT’s plight or Louisville , WVA, or Rutgers
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10 years later there are still the same bad takes blaming the C7 for what happened.

Of the 16 schools that were in the Big East in 2010, 13 of them ended up MUCH better off financially after the realignment than they were before. Did those 13 schools suddenly become more valuable by leaving for 4 different conferences to play teams that they had no history with, or were they always worth more and ESPN was simply trying to screw over the Big East for threatening to leave, and the situation ended up getting out of control.

By the time realignment was over, ESPN was paying more to have Pitt, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Louisville in the ACC, 1/2 of WVU in the Big 12, and whatever it gets for Rutgers in the Big 10, than it had been paying the Big East for 16 teams. And ESPN lost most of WVU and Rutgers, and all of the C7 schools content in the process. But hey, ESPN sure taught UConn, USF and Cincinnati a lesson.
 
The one thing that is ironic is while Pitt, Syracuse, WV and even Louisville have been less than impressive on the football field which drives the bus, Cincy is thriving. The old adage that you can step up recruiting etc attaching your wagon to bigger power conferences has not played out there.
 
UConnJim said:
Bottom line is this. In every conference in either football or basketball, you can only have 3 or 4 heavyweights in a sport, although the 3 to 4 can slowly change over time. (Remember when Tennessee was one of the elite football teams in the SEC?)

When the Big East was founded, the heavyweights were Georgetown, St. John's, and Syracuse. The heavyweight group then transitioned to UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville. Now, the Big East heavyweights are probably Villanova, UConn, and ?.

In the ACC right now, the heavyweights are Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, and Louisville. Look at Syracuse and Pitt's conference standing over the past 6 years:

Syracuse: 8th, 9th, T7th, T10th, 6th, T6th.

Pitt: T9th, T9th, T13th, T15th, T14th, T13th

It will be hard for Pitt to dig out of the ACC cellar. I do think Syracuse, once Boeheim retires, could compete for the upper echelon in the ACC again, but as we know, coaching hires can be very risky.
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I think basketball recruiting is much more distributed. Basketball players seem much more focused on playing time in the near-term, so they self-select to places where there is less talent ahead of them.

Football works the opposite. The top programs just hoard talent until even teams ranked 11-20 are barely competitive with the Top 5. A similar dynamic seems to occur on the conference level, at least with the P5. The alpha dogs get all the talent, and the second and third tier teams within the conference are not competitive.
 
Blaneylover said:
I had intially looked at this from a different perspective. I know that much of their decision-making was due to football, but I figured these schools would continue to be able to recruit NYC and the rest of the Northeast by waving two games each with UNC, Duke and Virginia in front of recruits. The opposite appears to have occurred. In addition to these teams, the article doesn't even mention our friends in Chestnut Hill.
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If I remember this correctly, one of the officials at BC actively lobbied against UConn's admission into the ACC.

Remarkable how bad they have been since. While in the old BE, they could recruit based on their beautiful campus not that far from Boston, the regional competition in the BE, maybe some games in Boston Garden, and the history and tradition with some of the players who played there over the years.

Obviously, whatever they are telling potential recruits is not working now.
 
Improviser said:
If I remember this correctly, one of the officials at BC actively lobbied against UConn's admission into the ACC.

Remarkable how bad they have been since. While in the old BE, they could recruit based on their beautiful campus not that far from Boston, the regional competition in the BE, maybe some games in Boston Garden, and the history and tradition with some of the players who played there over the years.

Obviously, whatever they are telling potential recruits is not working now.
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I believe it was their former AD Gene DeFilippo who worked with Miami and ESPN to begin the drive to shut UConn out. That was just the beginning, but he is the absolute one who started it all with ESPN. Never forget.
 

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