AA awards

[wallman]

Who is on the 5-player AA team?

I’m going with the following.
Brown
Wilson
Inoescu
Mitchell
?

Three of those players will have to show they can help their team get to the success of a top 4 team, therefore Mitchell would be out of the top 5 at least, it appears Oregon are overrated so I would drop Ionescu and neither play defense. Brown is interesting as due to Baylors weak OOC scheduling they are not being considered in the top group yet and will need to win outright in conference and tournament, plus Brown just stands on the block and receives passes from her team but does alter shots on the defensive end. Only time will show if Brown can compete against top competition this year but the question is when.

 

[HumblePie]

Three of those players will have to show they can help their team get to the success of a top 4 team, therefore Mitchell would be out of the top 5 at least, it appears Oregon are overrated so I would drop Ionescu and neither play defense. Brown is interesting as due to Baylors weak OOC scheduling they are not being considered in the top group yet and will need to win outright in conference and tournament, plus Brown just stands on the block and receives passes from her team but does alter shots on the defensive end. Only time will show if Brown can compete against top competition this year but the question is when.

I don't necessarily disagree with your player assessments, but you do overlook the fact that All-American is an individual, not a team award.

 

[bballnut90]

I have always paid more attention to the 10 team WBCA squad. It's tough to narrow any list of top players to 5 and while the AP does it, the 10 team squad is chosen by coaches and seems to mean more. My list in no real order

Wilson
Mitchell
Williams
KLS
Nurse
Durr
Brown
Vivians
McGowan
Ionescu

I do realize this leaves off a ton of players who are having outstanding seasons. We all know CD, Collier and AZ are capable of leading the team on any given night in any category but the limit is 3 and the 3 UConn players I listed have been the more consistent this season. Flaherty and Ogunbalwe have had excellent seasons and just missed the cut. Maybe I am a bit of a homer to put both McGowan and Vivians on the team but if MSU keeps winning and they keep up their numbers, hard to deny they belong.

You're not being a homer at all. Mississippi State is undefeated and both McCowan and Vivians are having POY worthy seasons. Both should be locks for the 10 man team.

 

[bballnut90]

Trying to be unbias and recognizing that I do not watch nearly enough non-UConn games to appreciate all that other players bring to their teams, Kia is on the cusp, right on the edge. For only 5 player team I think Lou and Gabby are in. Aja would be added so that makes 3, and despite how she plays against us, she is a great college player that did lead her team to a championship. I do not see how you can keep Asia Durr off either.

Then that is one spot, or 6 spots for the team of 10, with players you need to question are better such as Sabrina Ionescu, Teaira McCowan, Kalani Brown, Lexie Brown, etc... even our own Pheesa which I would not be as quick as many to discount. Pheesa was AA last year and that carries weight. Also, you would be hard pressed to find a player with her skill set and diversity.

Bottom line as a UConn fan I believe that Kia has a strong case. She has good stats but also passes the eye test for being a top college player. I also think that Z does not even come close to deserving a spot. It's not about potential, skills or a couple big spots during the season. There are to many far deserving players that have consistently contributed throughout the season. Crystal Dangerfield has improved from last year and is making strides but to me is not at this level ...yet.

Gabby isn't going to make the 5 player team. She's struggled with consistency and overall hasn't been as impactful as she was a year ago, when she made 2nd team. She does a lot of things well and should be a high draft pick, but she's 6th on her team in scoring and isn't a 1st teamer this year. If any team is getting two, it's Mississippi State with Vivians and McCowan. Both are in the mix for POY IMO.

At this point, I think McCowan, Brown, Wilson and Ionescu should be 1st team locks ahead of anyone on UCONN. KLS is the only one who is in the mix for 1st team IMO, and Nurse is in the mix for 2nd team. Maybe Williams, too, since she is such a unique player. Anyone else on UCONN could sneak on to 3rd team.

You should take some time and watch other players and also research how they're doing. This is a year where there are a lot of really strong players having standout seasons. Teaira McCowan and Kalani Brown are the most dominant centers we've seen since Griner, Ionescu does everything well and her all around game is unlike any player who has come through women's basketball, and Wilson is dominating everyone besides UCONN. Other players like Durr, Ogunbowale, Vivians, L. Brown, Flaherty, Gustafson, Mitchell, Carter, etc. are having MONSTER years too (20-25ppg with good to great percentages) and these players are still putting up big numbers in conference play. Then there are a slew of other really good players who are having fantastic seasons like Cox, Hebard, McPhee, Russell, Hines-Allen, Charles, Goodwin, Canada, etc.

 

[Los24]

Gabby isn't going to make the 5 player team. She's struggled with consistency and overall hasn't been as impactful as she was a year ago, when she made 2nd team. She does a lot of things well and should be a high draft pick, but she's 6th on her team in scoring and isn't a 1st teamer this year. If any team is getting two, it's Mississippi State with Vivians and McCowan. Both are in the mix for POY IMO.

At this point, I think McCowan, Brown, Wilson and Ionescu should be 1st team locks ahead of anyone on UCONN. KLS is the only one who is in the mix for 1st team IMO, and Nurse is in the mix for 2nd team. Maybe Williams, too, since she is such a unique player. Anyone else on UCONN could sneak on to 3rd team.

You should take some time and watch other players and also research how they're doing. This is a year where there are a lot of really strong players having standout seasons. Teaira McCowan and Kalani Brown are the most dominant centers we've seen since Griner, Ionescu does everything well and her all around game is unlike any player who has come through women's basketball, and Wilson is dominating everyone besides UCONN. Other players like Durr, Ogunbowale, Vivians, L. Brown, Flaherty, Gustafson, Mitchell, Carter, etc. are having MONSTER years too (20-25ppg with good to great percentages) and these players are still putting up big numbers in conference play. Then there are a slew of other really good players who are having fantastic seasons like Cox, Hebard, McPhee, Russell, Hines-Allen, Charles, Goodwin, Canada, etc.

Thanks for your reply and input. I think you are supporting my point about what a strong field there is and we need to realize there are also many deserving and talented players that do not go to UConn.

I stated Kia is on the cusp but I do not feel is 1st team only because she is not an individual standout player. In someways its unfair but if your a voter you see how many times she scores on open layups and wide open 3s. Is it because she is in a great system and surrounded by other great players that makes more of her success than her own greatness? BYers I believe have a harder time distinguishing. Obviously she is a very good defender and her 3pt shooting is great. However, when I see Durr or Sabrina Ionescu they are doing it with the opposition on them but still creating. That said its not Kia's fault she made a better choice about which program to join : - )

Regarding Gabby I have to say that the MSST game really made me turn the corner on how good she really is... Gabby is the only reason we had a chance to win (Lou also was impactful but to lesser degree.) I have heard many times you need to see her in person to appreciate her true impact and performance. I always knocked her, and rightfully so, for not being able to consistently hit open shots outside the paint. Her only real offensive move is to go to the glass or putting back an offensive rebound. But .... greatness is value, significance and to inspire. When you take the other areas she is able to contribute and the way she is able to change a game, its incredible. The fact that you can not just close her down because of the way she does contribute makes her even more unique and harder to contain. UConn often is able to take away the best, and many times top 2, opposing players. How do you game plan to shutdown Gabby? Best I have seen is leave her open and hope she misses 15ft jumper.

All that to say (1) I can see your points and believe that has an actual higher probability of happening, (2) I still hold out hope that Gabby will be first team because she deserves it and (3) I would watch more of other teams if I had time but do try to grab some parts of games.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Then there are a slew of other really good players who are having fantastic seasons like Cox, Hebard, McPhee, Russell, Hines-Allen, Charles, Goodwin, Canada, etc.

Good list, one other Pac 12 player I would add that has been consistently good throughout the season is Gulich.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Three of those players will have to show they can help their team get to the success of a top 4 team, therefore Mitchell would be out of the top 5 at least, it appears Oregon are overrated so I would drop Ionescu and neither play defense. Brown is interesting as due to Baylors weak OOC scheduling they are not being considered in the top group yet and will need to win outright in conference and tournament, plus Brown just stands on the block and receives passes from her team but does alter shots on the defensive end. Only time will show if Brown can compete against top competition this year but the question is when.

Look at her stats vs McCowan last year. http://www.baylorbears.com/gametrac...ool=bay&sport=wbaskbl&camefrom=&startschool=&

Kalani's team have nothing to do with this. You say she needs to face better teams, yet to date they have played - Stanford, Texas, West Virginia, and OKST all ranked currently.
Also, even in the lost to UCLA she posted over 30 pts. Even in the big loss last year she still shut down McCowan and played like an AA and she has all season long.
If she plays like a AA then she deserves it. Basing it on the teams results is idiotic.

 

[MSGRET]

Kia has played 5 more games, you have to adjust the numbers to a per game average.

If you do that, KLS has more FG and FGA per game, more assists per game and fewer TO per game. Kia only beats her with percentages, 3pt FG/FGA and blocks.

KLS has played limited minutes in several games due to injuries, so the MPG would be about the same if she was healthy. She played just 15 minutes before getting injured against Cal, 28 vs. Notre Dame, and 15 vs. Tulsa.

Statistically, KLS is ahead, and she's also performing better against better competition than Kia is. Nurse had a big game against SC, but so did KLS, and KLS had great games against Texas and Notre Dame too. Aside from the SC game, Kia's best showings have been against Nevada, Michigan State, and Temple.

Stats say KLS>Nurse, and eye test does too.

Actually it is closer to 6 games, because if I remember correctly Lou went out in two of her starts with less than 15 minutes in one and 20 minutes in the other. Both were because of injuries, the Cal game and the Tulsa game. She only scored a total of 15 points in the two games combined.

 

[bballnut90]

Actually it is closer to 6 games, because if I remember correctly Lou went out in two of her starts with less than 15 minutes in one and 20 minutes in the other. Both were because of injuries, the Cal game and the Tulsa game. She only scored a total of 15 points in the two games combined.

Agreed. I mentioned the limited minutes in other games. She also sat in the 2nd half against Notre Dame...if she was healthy she would've been out there a full 40.

 

[bballnut90]

Thanks for your reply and input. I think you are supporting my point about what a strong field there is and we need to realize there are also many deserving and talented players that do not go to UConn.

I stated Kia is on the cusp but I do not feel is 1st team only because she is not an individual standout player. In someways its unfair but if your a voter you see how many times she scores on open layups and wide open 3s. Is it because she is in a great system and surrounded by other great players that makes more of her success than her own greatness? BYers I believe have a harder time distinguishing. Obviously she is a very good defender and her 3pt shooting is great. However, when I see Durr or Sabrina Ionescu they are doing it with the opposition on them but still creating. That said its not Kia's fault she made a better choice about which program to join : - )

Regarding Gabby I have to say that the MSST game really made me turn the corner on how good she really is... Gabby is the only reason we had a chance to win (Lou also was impactful but to lesser degree.) I have heard many times you need to see her in person to appreciate her true impact and performance. I always knocked her, and rightfully so, for not being able to consistently hit open shots outside the paint. Her only real offensive move is to go to the glass or putting back an offensive rebound. But .... greatness is value, significance and to inspire. When you take the other areas she is able to contribute and the way she is able to change a game, its incredible. The fact that you can not just close her down because of the way she does contribute makes her even more unique and harder to contain. UConn often is able to take away the best, and many times top 2, opposing players. How do you game plan to shutdown Gabby? Best I have seen is leave her open and hope she misses 15ft jumper.

All that to say (1) I can see your points and believe that has an actual higher probability of happening, (2) I still hold out hope that Gabby will be first team because she deserves it and (3) I would watch more of other teams if I had time but do try to grab some parts of games.

Agreed in regards to Nurse. She's not nearly as dynamic offensively as most players on the list--offensively she primarily roams around on the perimeter, takes catch and shoot open looks, hits breakaway layups and sets picks. No dribble penetration, attacking the glass or creating for others. She's not a player who is going to take the last shot in the game unless you draw up a play for her to get an open look. She has a very defined role at UCONN, so you can't fault her for the lack of creativity, but at the same time she doesn't stand out like a lot of players. In her favor, she is extremely efficient and is also a very strong defender, so I think she should be an AA this year, but she's not 1st team material.

Skill wise, Gabby Williams is absolutely a 1st team All American. She does everything well besides shooting perimeter shots. Great ball handling, aggressive rebounding, finishes inside, can hit shots 15 feet and in, creates for others, has good vision, etc. Not to mention she is a world class athlete and defender. However, she has been streaky all year. She's had some very good games, but she's also disappeared in several, and there are far more than 5 players in women's basketball having better seasons than Gabby at this point which is why I don't think she should be on 1st team, or 2nd team for that matter.

 

[MSGRET]

Agreed. I mentioned the limited minutes in other games. She also sat in the 2nd half against Notre Dame...if she was healthy she would've been out there a full 40.

Sorry, must of missed that portion.

 

[bballnut90]

Three of those players will have to show they can help their team get to the success of a top 4 team, therefore Mitchell would be out of the top 5 at least, it appears Oregon are overrated so I would drop Ionescu and neither play defense. Brown is interesting as due to Baylors weak OOC scheduling they are not being considered in the top group yet and will need to win outright in conference and tournament, plus Brown just stands on the block and receives passes from her team but does alter shots on the defensive end. Only time will show if Brown can compete against top competition this year but the question is when.

Brown should be a 1st teamer. She doesn't just stand there, she establishes position and has good footwork that allows her to get easy looks inside. It's a major skill that's underrated. The Ogwumikes were the same way--I'd watch them at Stanford and thought it was mindboggling how they'd score 20-30 every night while never taking a shot more than 5 feet from the bucket. Neither of them had great height and the opposing team's game plan was built around slowing them down but they always found a way to get easy layups. Same with Kalani Brown. Brown has also been outstanding in big games over the last season and a half and while I don't love Baylor, I will give them credit that they appear to be a very strong Final Four threat this year and Brown is the centerpiece of that.

 

[easttexastrash]

Three of those players will have to show they can help their team get to the success of a top 4 team, therefore Mitchell would be out of the top 5 at least, it appears Oregon are overrated so I would drop Ionescu and neither play defense. Brown is interesting as due to Baylors weak OOC scheduling they are not being considered in the top group yet and will need to win outright in conference and tournament, plus Brown just stands on the block and receives passes from her team but does alter shots on the defensive end. Only time will show if Brown can compete against top competition this year but the question is when.

Your description of what Brown does on offense is laughable and proof that you have rarely, if at all, seen her play.

 

[CocoHusky]

Gabby isn't going to make the 5 player team. She's struggled with consistency and overall hasn't been as impactful as she was a year ago, when she made 2nd team. She does a lot of things well and should be a high draft pick, but she's 6th on her team in scoring and isn't a 1st teamer this year. If any team is getting two, it's Mississippi State with Vivians and McCowan. Both are in the mix for POY IMO.

At this point, I think McCowan, Brown, Wilson and Ionescu should be 1st team locks ahead of anyone on UCONN. KLS is the only one who is in the mix for 1st team IMO, and Nurse is in the mix for 2nd team. Maybe Williams, too, since she is such a unique player. Anyone else on UCONN could sneak on to 3rd team.

You should take some time and watch other players and also research how they're doing. This is a year where there are a lot of really strong players having standout seasons. Teaira McCowan and Kalani Brown are the most dominant centers we've seen since Griner, Ionescu does everything well and her all around game is unlike any player who has come through women's basketball, and Wilson is dominating everyone besides UCONN. Other players like Durr, Ogunbowale, Vivians, L. Brown, Flaherty, Gustafson, Mitchell, Carter, etc. are having MONSTER years too (20-25ppg with good to great percentages) and these players are still putting up big numbers in conference play. Then there are a slew of other really good players who are having fantastic seasons like Cox, Hebard, McPhee, Russell, Hines-Allen, Charles, Goodwin, Canada, etc.

Don't agree with much of what is written here.
The comparison of Teaira McCowan & Kalani Brown to Griner is blasphemous on all levels. Going into her senior year Summer of 2012 USA basketball & Geno were willing to leave a spot open on the 2012 Olympic team for Griner. When the world championship roll around this summer Brown & McCowan will not even be invited to try out. Ooops my bad, tryouts have happened already. McCowan is not a lock to make an AA team much less 1st team. If McCowan, Brown, Wilson and Ionescu are locks to make first team then so is K. Mitchell-which would mean no UCONN player on the 1st team=Not going to happen!

Carter does not belong in this discussion. Give Carter the National FOY award put her on the watch list for next year & call it a day.

AP traditionally conservative and don't like to change their minds. AP had 3 UCONN players (Gabby, Napheesa, KLS) on the first team AA Pre-season list. AP is not going to take all three off and this season performance just doesn't warrant being taken off for all three players.

WBCA 2017 AA Peterson & Plum guards graduated. Two most worthy guard selections as replacements should be Ionescu and Nurse.
WBCA 2017 AA Osahor has graduated and Turner is injured. Two most worthy selections as replacements should be Vivians and Gustafson.
WBCA 2017 AA Williams, Collier, KLS, Brown, Mitchell, & Wilson are all playing well enough to retain positions. But it's not possible to have 4 UCONN players on WNBA AA teams. The most vulnerable returning UCONN WBCA AA selection is Napheesa. Gabby will likely repeat as National DPOY and coaches love and value defense.
We can have some very good arguments at the margins, for example Ionescu vs. Durr, vs Nurse vs Vivians each would be a first time selection-to which I'd point out that these selections tend to favor Seniors =Nurse & Vivians. Some very good players are not going to make AA selection L.Brown, Canada, McPhee, Flaherty , Cunningham..... this is always the case.

Predictions
WBCA AA: Ionescu, Nurse, Vivians ,Gustafson, Durr, Williams, KLS, Brown, Mitchell, & Wilson
AP Ist Team AA: Wilson, Brown, Mitchell, KLS, & G. Williams
AP 2nd team AA: Ionescu, Durr, Vivians Collier, & Cox

 

[Golden Husky]

Don't agree with much of what is written here.
The comparison of Teaira McCowan & Kalani Brown to Griner is blasphemous on all levels. Going into her senior year Summer of 2012 USA basketball & Geno were willing to leave a spot open on the 2012 Olympic team for Griner. When the world championship roll around this summer Brown & McCowan will not even be invited to try out. Ooops my bad, tryouts have happened already. McCowan is not a lock to make an AA team much less 1st team. If McCowan, Brown, Wilson and Ionescu are locks to make first team then so is K. Mitchell-which would mean no UCONN player on the 1st team=Not going to happen!

Carter does not belong in this discussion. Give Carter the National FOY award put her on the watch list for next year & call it a day.

AP traditionally conservative and don't like to change their minds. AP had 3 UCONN players (Gabby, Napheesa, KLS) on the first team AA Pre-season list. AP is not going to take all three off and this season performance just doesn't warrant being taken off for all three players.

WBCA 2017 AA Peterson & Plum guards graduated. Two most worthy guard selections as replacements should be Ionescu and Nurse.
WBCA 2017 AA Osahor has graduated and Turner is injured. Two most worthy selections as replacements should be Vivians and Gustafson.
WBCA 2017 AA Williams, Collier, KLS, Brown, Mitchell, & Wilson are all playing well enough to retain positions. But it's not possible to have 4 UCONN players on WNBA AA teams. The most vulnerable returning UCONN WBCA AA selection is Napheesa. Gabby will likely repeat as National DPOY and coaches love and value defense.
We can have some very good arguments at the margins, for example Ionescu vs. Durr, vs Nurse vs Vivians each would be a first time selection-to which I'd point out that these selections tend to favor Seniors =Nurse & Vivians. Some very good players are not going to make AA selection L.Brown, Canada, McPhee, Flaherty , Cunningham..... this is always the case.

Predictions
WBCA AA: Ionescu, Nurse, Vivians ,Gustafson, Durr, Williams, KLS, Brown, Mitchell, & Wilson
AP Ist Team AA: Wilson, Brown, Mitchell, KLS, & G. Williams
AP 2nd team AA: Ionescu, Durr, Vivians Collier, & Cox

Always enjoy reading your posts, Coco, and usually gain some understanding from them. Happy to learn that coaches value defense, which should help Nurse. I know there are many guards who average more PPG than Kia but I doubt many of them could cover their man with a tarpaulin and 20 gallons of paint. So I'm hoping Nurse gets rewarded with All-America status for playing both ends of the court.

 

[bballnut90]

Don't agree with much of what is written here.
The comparison of Teaira McCowan & Kalani Brown to Griner is blasphemous on all levels. Going into her senior year Summer of 2012 USA basketball & Geno were willing to leave a spot open on the 2012 Olympic team for Griner. When the world championship roll around this summer Brown & McCowan will not even be invited to try out. Ooops my bad, tryouts have happened already. McCowan is not a lock to make an AA team much less 1st team. If McCowan, Brown, Wilson and Ionescu are locks to make first team then so is K. Mitchell-which would mean no UCONN player on the 1st team=Not going to happen!

Carter does not belong in this discussion. Give Carter the National FOY award put her on the watch list for next year & call it a day.

AP traditionally conservative and don't like to change their minds. AP had 3 UCONN players (Gabby, Napheesa, KLS) on the first team AA Pre-season list. AP is not going to take all three off and this season performance just doesn't warrant being taken off for all three players.

WBCA 2017 AA Peterson & Plum guards graduated. Two most worthy guard selections as replacements should be Ionescu and Nurse.
WBCA 2017 AA Osahor has graduated and Turner is injured. Two most worthy selections as replacements should be Vivians and Gustafson.
WBCA 2017 AA Williams, Collier, KLS, Brown, Mitchell, & Wilson are all playing well enough to retain positions. But it's not possible to have 4 UCONN players on WNBA AA teams. The most vulnerable returning UCONN WBCA AA selection is Napheesa. Gabby will likely repeat as National DPOY and coaches love and value defense.
We can have some very good arguments at the margins, for example Ionescu vs. Durr, vs Nurse vs Vivians each would be a first time selection-to which I'd point out that these selections tend to favor Seniors =Nurse & Vivians. Some very good players are not going to make AA selection L.Brown, Canada, McPhee, Flaherty , Cunningham..... this is always the case.

Predictions
WBCA AA: Ionescu, Nurse, Vivians ,Gustafson, Durr, Williams, KLS, Brown, Mitchell, & Wilson
AP Ist Team AA: Wilson, Brown, Mitchell, KLS, & G. Williams
AP 2nd team AA: Ionescu, Durr, Vivians Collier, & Cox

I didn't compare them to Griner, I stated that they were having the most dominant seasons by a center since Griner...big difference.

McCowan may not be a lock, but you're underestimating her if you're putting Cox over her. Did you see the game against Oregon where she had 35/19? Or recognize that she's averaging 19/13 for the #2 undefeated team in the country? She's not the most polished post out there, but she definitely makes the 10 man team and either 1st or 2nd on the AP team.

If McCowan doesn't get a spot, then Vivians should. If they're undefeated or a 1 loss team with 2 major standouts, they should get at least 1 spot on 1st Team IMO.

I also do not think Mitchell is a lock for 1st team at all. Her team is underperforming and while her numbers are good, both Durr and Samuelson are having better seasons than her IMO. She may get it due to her reputation, but she's no better than 2nd team at this point. So, that still puts 1 UCONN player on the top team.

Carter absolutely belongs in the discussion of making a team. She's the best player on the #14 team and is averaging 21 points and 5 assists per game. Some of her games have been concerning regarding her shot selection and decision making, but to say she's not in the discussion of making 3rd doesn't seem right to me.

I'm not concerned about the preseason rankings. The AP went 3/5 last year, 3/5 in 2016, 3/5 in 2015. Mine is 2/5, but if there is a switch I'd bet we'd see Mitchell jump Ionescu or McCowan rather Williams making 1st team at this point.

 

[wallman]

Brown should be a 1st teamer. She doesn't just stand there, she establishes position and has good footwork that allows her to get easy looks inside. It's a major skill that's underrated. The Ogwumikes were the same way--I'd watch them at Stanford and thought it was mindboggling how they'd score 20-30 every night while never taking a shot more than 5 feet from the bucket. Neither of them had great height and the opposing team's game plan was built around slowing them down but they always found a way to get easy layups. Same with Kalani Brown. Brown has also been outstanding in big games over the last season and a half and while I don't love Baylor, I will give them credit that they appear to be a very strong Final Four threat this year and Brown is the centerpiece of that.

I like your posts but I stand by what I said and Brown is nothing like the Ogwumikes who received the ball further from the basket and drove along with The older hitting short jumpers. Show me film to dispute where Brown does anything away from the basket with regards to scoring. She also benefits from having Cox who is able to feed her the ball over the top of the defense and can hit a jumper away from the basket. Re McCowan, thats not a good bench mark as McCowan is the same, but more raw even around the basket as we saw last night.

 

[wallman]

I don't necessarily disagree with your player assessments, but you do overlook the fact that All-American is an individual, not a team award.

I understand your argument but if it had nothing to do with the team and making their team successful there are a number of D2 players who would be in contention.

 

[CocoHusky]

I didn't compare them to Griner, I stated that they were having the most dominant seasons by a center since Griner...big difference.

You would still need to lower the bar significantly! Kristine Anigwe last season and Alaina Coates' Junior season are much better comparisons. You can make it simple and pick Gustafson this season or last.

McCowan may not be a lock, but you're underestimating her if you're putting Cox over her. Did you see the game against Oregon where she had 35/19? Or recognize that she's averaging 19/13 for the #2 undefeated team in the country? She's not the most polished post out there, but she definitely makes the 10 man team and either 1st or 2nd on the AP team.

McCowan is not a lock. I did see the Oregon game, McCowan played well. Cox is a superior post player to McCowan as is Gustafson. Baylor only loss of the season is a game that Cox did not play in.

If McCowan doesn't get a spot, then Vivians should. If they're undefeated or a 1 loss team with 2 major standouts, they should get at least 1 spot on 1st Team IMO.

Vivians should make both (WBCA & AP) AA teams. AA teams is an individual award having little to do with "undefeated" teams or ranking of the teams. Mississippi State was among the last teams to lose a game last year and a FF team =ZERO AA selections.

I also do not think Mitchell is a lock for 1st team at all. Her team is underperforming and while her numbers are good, both Durr and Samuelson are having better seasons than her IMO. She may get it due to her reputation, but she's no better than 2nd team at this point. So, that still puts 1 UCONN player on the top team.

"Her numbers are good" but you are suddenly going to kick Kelsey Mitchell off 1st team AA after two years which would make room for a UCONN player on 1st team? Aren't you contradicting yourself? UCONN is undefeated and ranked higher than MSU so if MSU should have 2 AA why would UCONN have less? Here is the thing though, you never have to make room for UCONN players-they always make room for themselves.

Carter absolutely belongs in the discussion of making a team. She's the best player on the #14 team and is averaging 21 points and 5 assists per game. Some of her games have been concerning regarding her shot selection and decision making, but to say she's not in the discussion of making 3rd doesn't seem right to me.

The last National Freshmen of the Year to make an WBCA AA team was Maya Moore. Chennedy Carter is no Maya Moore. Prior to Maya these NFOY DID NOT make WBCA AA in their freshmen seasons;
2008–09 Stricklen, Shekinna
2009-10 Griner, Brittney
2010–11 Sims, Odyssey
2011–12 Williams, Elizabeth
2012-13 Loyd, Jewell
2013-14 DeShields, Diamond
2014-15 Mitchell, Kelsey
2015-16 Anigwe, Kristine
2016-17 Ionescu, Sabrina

I'm not concerned about the preseason rankings. The AP went 3/5 last year, 3/5 in 2016, 3/5 in 2015. Mine is 2/5, but if there is a switch I'd bet we'd see Mitchell jump Ionescu or McCowan rather Williams making 1st team at this point.

You might not be concerned but the AP voters will be. They do not like to be proven wrong and you have to give them overwhelming reason to change their mind. Mitchell was already on pre-season first team that would not be a Jump. Inouscu received pre-season AA votes-she was already on the radar. McCowan was not on the radar, she is having a very good season but not overwhelming enough to supplant the post players (Wilson, Brown, Anigwe, & Stevens) that were on the pre-season AP list.

 

[bballnut90]

You would still need to lower the bar significantly! Kristine Anigwe last season and Alaina Coates' Junior season are much better comparisons. You can make it simple and pick Gustafson this season or last.


McCowan is not a lock. I did see the Oregon game, McCowan played well. Cox is a superior post player to McCowan as is Gustafson. Baylor only loss of the season is a game that Cox did not play in.
Vivians should make both (WBCA & AP) AA teams. AA teams is an individual award having little to do with "undefeated" teams or ranking of the teams. Mississippi State was among the last teams to lose a game last year and a FF team =ZERO AA selections.
"Her numbers are good" but you are suddenly going to kick Kelsey Mitchell off 1st team AA after two years which would make room for a UCONN player on 1st team? Aren't you contradicting yourself? UCONN is undefeated and ranked higher than MSU so if MSU should have 2 AA why would UCONN have less? Here is the thing though, you never have to make room for UCONN players-they always make room for themselves.


The last National Freshmen of the Year to make an WBCA AA team was Maya Moore. Chennedy Carter is no Maya Moore. Prior to Maya these NFOY DID NOT make WBCA AA in their freshmen seasons;
2008–09 Stricklen, Shekinna
2009-10 Griner, Brittney
2010–11 Sims, Odyssey
2011–12 Williams, Elizabeth
2012-13 Loyd, Jewell
2013-14 DeShields, Diamond
2014-15 Mitchell, Kelsey
2015-16 Anigwe, Kristine
2016-17 Ionescu, Sabrina

You might not be concerned but the AP voters will be. They do not like to be proven wrong and you have to give them overwhelming reason to change their mind. Mitchell was already on pre-season first team that would not be a Jump. Inouscu received pre-season AA votes-she was already on the radar. McCowan was not on the radar, she is having a very good season but not overwhelming enough to supplant the post players (Wilson, Brown, Anigwe, & Stevens) that were on the pre-season AP list.

McCowan's numbers are better than Cox's, and she's had huge games against very good teams. Advantage McCowan over Cox.

Team success does matter for these awards. You wont see Natalie Butler on any team even though she's having a great season in her own right--her team is bad. Vivians is playing much better than she did a year ago when she was shooting in the 35-40% range and will get recognized this season. Same with McCowan. How many players on undefeated or 1-loss teams who average about 20ppg get left off 1st and 2nd team? My guess is close to zero. Both will make it.

Mitchell's year has been underwhelming compared to previous years and her team is falling short of expectations, so I don't see her being rewarded with 1st team. Voters put the players having the best seasons on the top AA team. Mitchell hasn't had one of the best seasons this year, while KLS has. Simple as that.

In regards to MSU vs. UCONN....they're both undefeated and have played tough competition, so one being ranked above the other is negligible right now. The way I see it, McCowan and Vivians will both make 1st or 2nd team, KLS makes first team, Nurse is on 2nd or 3rd, and one other UCONN player makes 3rd team. Mississippi State's 2 standouts have better numbers and resumes than Nurse/Williams/Collier/etc. so they'll get an edge over those players. UCONN has a deeper pool of AA candidates, and will get more players on the top 3 team than Mississippi State. For the WBCA AA awards, Mississippi State will get 2, UCONN will get 2 or 3.

The Carter reference was for making 3rd team AP AA, not the WBCA list. I don't think she's a strong candidate for making a top 10 team, but she should be in the mix for top 15. Whether she makes it or not is a different story, but she's definitely an AA candidate at this point.

And as far as AP voters--they had no problem acknowledging they guessed wrong by giving UCONN's AA trio 0 combined votes in the 2016-17 preseason poll. Voters will recognize who is having the best season and reward the deserving players. It's an negligible concern.

 

[DallasBUFan]

I like your posts but I stand by what I said and Brown is nothing like the Ogwumikes who received the ball further from the basket and drove along with The older hitting short jumpers. Show me film to dispute where Brown does anything away from the basket with regards to scoring. She also benefits from having Cox who is able to feed her the ball over the top of the defense and can hit a jumper away from the basket. Re McCowan, thats not a good bench mark as McCowan is the same, but more raw even around the basket as we saw last night.

Go watch some film. She can hit the mid range jumpers. She isn't only right under the basket. This is the issue with some fans. You talk and say then say show me proof. Well go watch some more of their games and you will see how effecient she is. She has even hit some 17 footers. McCowan does make a living underneath, however brown will even put the ball down at the top of the key and drive the lane. You actually want us to show you proof, yet you seem to want to spout out stuff with out having correct information to back it up. Go watch some games and come and talk. No one but you is even arguing this point.

 

[CocoHusky]

In regards to MSU vs. UCONN....they're both undefeated and have played tough competition, so one being ranked above the other is negligible at this point. The way I see it, McCowan and Vivians will both make 1st or 2nd team, KLS makes first team, Nurse is on 2nd or 3rd, and one other UCONN player makes 3rd team. Mississippi State's 2 standouts have better numbers and resumes than Nurse/Williams/Collier/etc. so they'll get an edge over those players. UCONN has a deeper pool of AA candidates, and will get more players on the top 3 team than Mississippi State. For the WBCA AA awards, Mississippi State will get 2, UCONN will get 2 or 3.

Let's dig into the bolded part for just a second .
MSU out of conference included: Georgia State, Southern Missouri, Ivy league Power house Columbia, La-Lafayette, Little Rock Arkansas, American East powerhouse Maine and you want to equate that to the UCONN OOC schedule?

 

[Bigpetunia]

People who say Gabby is having a bad season don't understand basketball. She effects the game in every way. I was watching yesterday as the Cincy's Point would use picks to get a switch, and it was comical because getting a switch from Kia to Gabby is a worse situation for the person with the ball. She is the point of Defense, and the offense works best when it goes through her. She is the best passer..her outlet passes are a thing of beauty. She can hit a streaking teammate the way Bird, Lebron, and Rodman could. I think she scored more last year, but this team doesn't need more scoring from her on most nights. She is the straw that stirs the drink. It isn't all about scoring.

Forget first team AA. If the NPOY award was handed out on the basis of which player, in all of WCBB, does more things on the floor to help her team win games (it isn’t, alas), and if the voters understood the full scope of what’s going on out there (they don’t, alas), Gabby would win in a walk. She doesn’t even seem to qualify for first team AA status even on our own forum, apparently. But that’s OK. When the team captures #12, she, I suspect, will be satisfied. Not to fret, Gabby...some of us get it!

 

[dogfan96]

Let's dig into the bolded part for just a second .
MSU out of conference included: Georgia State, Southern Missouri, Ivy league Power house Columbia, La-Lafayette, Little Rock Arkansas, American East powerhouse Maine and you want to equate that to the UCONN OOC schedule?

Plus #9 Oregon, #25 AZ State, #17 Green Bay, Little Rock and UNLV are also likely tournament teams...as are Virginia and Ok State..... And you can't exactly equate the AAC schedule to the SEC schedule either. Like the original poster said, both teams have played tough competition.

 

[CocoHusky]

Plus #9 Oregon, #25 AZ State, #17 Green Bay, Little Rock and UNLV are also likely tournament teams...as are Virginia and Ok State..... And you can't exactly equate the AAC schedule to the SEC schedule either. Like the original poster said, both teams have played tough competition.

Yea, Mississippi State really challenged themselves with that OOC schedule.
I want to make sure I'm reading this correctly?
How many OOC games did MSU play on the road?
ONE?
What do you mean ONE?
UNLV in Vegas? Alright it was Vegas so I can't be too mad at you!
That's it-ONE road game OOC?
MSU scheduled Mississippi Valley State Devilettes and you made Devilettes come to Starkville to take a 76 point beat down? That is some shameful ish right there!
So that Mississippi Valley State Devilettes squad must be a pretty good team them right?
No?
What do you me no?
What do you mean Mississippi Valley State Devilettes have only won ONE game this year?
That can't be right?
That would put Mississippi Valley State Devilettes like at the bottom of all D1 WCBB programs wouldn't it?

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