A Pivotal Play - Self Destruction at Navy

[Excalibur]

This is easy enough to solve. Just watch the replay and time :40 from the previous play.

Just did it. The clock on the TV was correct. So much for that excuse . . .

Dooley, you can turn your disgust back on . . .

 

[BugsyCT]

These breakdowns are great, Kgun. Nice work.

Diaco gave his explanation - he saw the play clock running down and didn't know if it was a catch, where the ball would be spotted, or even what down it was, so he panicked and called the TO to avoid delay of game. He blew it. His players were ready and he wasn't.

 

[BlueandOG]

Conclusion - There was no confusion in the play call. There was no delay in getting the play in. There was no struggle to get lined up. And finally ... there was no doubt that Shirreffs was going to get that ball snapped without a delay of game penalty.

It can't be overstated ... Shirreffs was going to get that ball snapped with no danger of a delay of game. Say what you want about his arm strength or pocket awareness. Shirreffs is, without a doubt, an excellent game manager who had no doubt that he was going to hand the ball off to Ron Johnson at the goal line ... with a TO in his back pocket. That back shoulder pass to Mayala at the goal line was NFL quality.

So why the timeout? The decision to run did not change. The formation barely changed. What materialistically changed before and after the time out? Pretty ... much ... nothing ...

I can only fathom that Diaco freaked because he saw something he didn't like. Maybe because he did not see Allmendinger in the game? Maybe he wanted to second-guess the play call? Maybe he was an early riser and liked to pack in the morning? And maybe he didn't have any friends? I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about the time out habits of Bob Diaco.

My opinion: the entire team and most of the coaching staff did everything they needed to do to put this team in a position to win ...

Bobby's reply to questions about his play calling and clock management, "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who is wildly entertained by the football I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way."

 

[Dooley]

Just did it. The clock on the TV was correct. So much for that excuse . . .

Dooley, you can turn your disgust back on . . .

I'm not sure I ever turned it completely off, to be honest.

 

[31GuardTrap]

Bobby's reply to questions about his play calling and clock management, "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who is wildly entertained by the football I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way."

.................and so it begins

 

[Kgun7]

I'm not sure I ever turned it completely off, to be honest.

Matt has been a very knowledgeable and reputable source. I haven't heard his version, but I'd be glad to read it when he posts it later this week ... looking forward to it.

 

[Excalibur]

Matt has been a very knowledgeable and reputable source. I haven't heard his version, but I'd be glad to read it when he posts it later this week ... looking forward to it.

His contention is factually wrong.

 

[Dooley]

Either way, it's still a wasted timeout. Even if you're not sure what to run, throwing it in the 3rd row would've been a better decision than burning the final timeout.

 

[NEforceUConn]

Conclusion - There was no confusion in the play call. There was no delay in getting the play in. There was no struggle to get lined up. And finally ... there was no doubt that Shirreffs was going to get that ball snapped without a delay of game penalty.

It can't be overstated ... Shirreffs was going to get that ball snapped with no danger of a delay of game. Say what you want about his arm strength or pocket awareness. Shirreffs is, without a doubt, an excellent game manager who had no doubt that he was going to hand the ball off to Ron Johnson at the goal line ... with a TO in his back pocket. That back shoulder pass to Mayala at the goal line was NFL quality.

So why the timeout? The decision to run did not change. The formation barely changed. What materialistically changed before and after the time out? Pretty ... much ... nothing ...

I can only fathom that Diaco freaked because he saw something he didn't like. Maybe because he did not see Allmendinger in the game? Maybe he wanted to second-guess the play call? Maybe he was an early riser and liked to pack in the morning? And maybe he didn't have any friends? I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about the time out habits of Bob Diaco.

My opinion: the entire team and most of the coaching staff did everything they needed to do to put this team in a position to win ...

Outstanding presentation! I'm sure the players involved know what happened.

HCBD has to tell the team he screwed up large and it won't happen again (appointing a specific coach to solely manage calling to to avoid delay of game would help). If he does not man up to the team, and continues the attitude taken in the press conference then I guarantee the players will not have faith or trust in the staff at crunch time in future games, meaning a recipe for disaster. If HCBD comes clean then at least this ticking time bomb will be defused.

 

[HomeKing93]

Great work on the breakdown. I've noticed something now in both of our games - very rarely do we run Newsome or Johnson out of the shotgun. In the last drive, we're in the shotgun with a RB (was Johnson in there for all of the plays?) moving down the field. You're right that it was obvious that Diaco/Verducci wanted to run after the Mayala catch. But it was not obvious or necessary that we had to get into a typical running formation under center that you show above. We could have stayed in the shotgun with the personnel we had and handed off to Johnson, and if he doesn't get in the end zone, you still have the TO and 2 more downs.

 

[Jimdish255]

Rick Neuheisel talks about game management every week on SiriusXM and he knows of what he speaks. He just went through the scenario and in detail. With reasoned evidence (not hindsight because he's been very consistent on these situations) he explained why both timeouts on the last drive were unnecessary and ill-advised. Earlier in the show he spoke about the fact that there are always coaches making mistakes but that no players are necessary for them to go over game management scenarios. It can be done over the entire off-season and there's no excuse not to get it right because it consistently costs certain teams games.

After playing the audio of the final play he summarized the moment as "unforgivable" because here just aren't any good excuses for repeating these mistakes. I'm hoping we don't hear any because it will only serve to erode the credibility of those involved. Take responsibility and make changes if you can't handle certain aspects of clock management or play-calling. Again, year 3 not game 2.

 

[Jimdish255]

Diaco gave his explanation - he saw the play clock running down and didn't know if it was a catch, where the ball would be spotted, or even what down it was, so he panicked and called the TO to avoid delay of game. He blew it. His players were ready and he wasn't.

Plenty of time to snap the ball. BS was ready and there was no review until we called the timeout. Opening the door to a review was another reason to get the play in quickly not an excuse to fiddle around endlessly to set up the same dive play. I actually expected they might rush to the line for a quick QB sneak but as usual we waited until the D was set then made it worse with the TO.

 

[BugsyCT]

#9 - Navy plays pig pile ... can you blame them???

View attachment 15512

This really drove me nuts. There's 12 seconds on the clock at that point, no receiver has run downfield because we're on the goal line, and yet we couldn't more than 3-4 players back to the line in time for another snap. At what point is Navy's "pig pile" grounds for a delay of game?

 

[businesslawyer]

No, no, no! Even if it is at 1 second. Which is worse in the situation: loss of 5 yards or loss of your final timeout? While that can be reasonably debated....what is the rationale that explains calling a run play affter you just blew/used your last time out?

You are being too kind to Bobby D.

You have to separate the TO call from the play call. They are two separate issues and lumping them together just ruins the analysis. If you thought the play was going to be blown up, or we were going to make a mistake, you absolutely call TO and save the 5 yards. That is not to excuse us from getting the play determined, called and executed in time, which is a recurring problem for us, but if you get to the point where you are not all on the same page you have to use the TO.

The play call after the TO, however, was totally inexcusable and there is no rational argument that we were maximizing our chances of success.

 

[businesslawyer]

Either way, it's still a wasted timeout. Even if you're not sure what to run, throwing it in the 3rd row would've been a better decision than burning the final timeout.

No. Absolutely not.

First, if the play wasn't a pass, thinking that BS on his own is going to say "I feel like everyone might not be comfortable with the play, I'll just throw it away" is absurd. Not his job and not going to happen. Second, there was no reason we couldn't run three plays after the TO if the first two were limited to quick throws, with the playbook then being opened up on 4th down. I don't know where this "it's o.k. To give up one of our three chances" crap is coming from.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

You have to separate the TO call from the play call. They are two separate issues and lumping them together just ruins the analysis. If you thought the play was going to be blown up, or we were going to make a mistake, you absolutely call TO and save the 5 yards. That is not to excuse us from getting the play determined, called and executed in time, which is a recurring problem for us, but if you get to the point where you are not all on the same page you have to use the TO.

The play call after the TO, however, was totally inexcusable and there is no rational argument that we were maximizing our chances of success.

I would never have called a run on that play. Only a run play really had the chance to be blown up. Therefore, I would not have needed to call the timeout. But that is all moot because we know why he called the timeout and it had nothing to do with the play being blown up. The timeout on its own merit was incredibly stupid. 1 timeout remaining on second and goal...if you are worried you signal your QB to spike the ball. Now, it is third down inside the 2 with maybe 14 seconds left and a timeout.

Of course, with the timeout, you could have called either run or pass because no matter the outcome, you could have used the timeout if needed. No, calling that timeout is as stupid as following it with a run.

Note, I did say the timeout scenarios were up for debate. In my book, both the timeout and the following play call stand on their own as monumentally stupid decisions.

 

[jbdphi]

You have to separate the TO call from the play call. They are two separate issues and lumping them together just ruins the analysis. If you thought the play was going to be blown up, or we were going to make a mistake, you absolutely call TO and save the 5 yards. That is not to excuse us from getting the play determined, called and executed in time, which is a recurring problem for us, but if you get to the point where you are not all on the same page you have to use the TO.

The play call after the TO, however, was totally inexcusable and there is no rational argument that we were maximizing our chances of success.

Respectfully disagree on the use of a TO versus taking a delay of game penalty. When it's a choice of giving up your only TO, giving up a down (by spiking it) or giving up 5 yards, I think burning your last TO was the worst option here. To be clear, I would have been furious at any of the three because they all showed that the coaching staff wasn't prepared for the situation but I still think losing the TO was the worst possible result as it takes away all of your flexibility and "should" leave you only with clock friendly options (i.e. passing or rollout option).

You can certainly argue that scoring on a pass play from the 5.5 yard line is way harder than doing the same from the 0.5 yard line but I don't think it makes that big of a difference (sometimes it is actually easier because you have more cushion to play with).

 

[businesslawyer]

Respectfully disagree on the use of a TO versus taking a delay of game penalty. When it's a choice of giving up your only TO, giving up a down (by spiking it) or giving up 5 yards, I think burning your last TO was the worst option here. To be clear, I would have been furious at any of the three because they all showed that the coaching staff wasn't prepared for the situation but I still think losing the TO was the worst possible result as it takes away all of your flexibility and "should" leave you only with clock friendly options (i.e. passing or rollout option).

You can certainly argue that scoring on a pass play from the 5.5 yard line is way harder than doing the same from the 0.5 yard line but I don't think it makes that big of a difference (sometimes it is actually easier because you have more cushion to play with).

In the NFL you might save the TO by giving up 5 yards. No college coach would do that.

 

[Excalibur]

Irrelevant debate. Shirreffs was under center with 5 seconds in the clock. No excuse for the TO call.

 

[NEforceUConn]

Irrelevant debate. Shirreffs was under center with 5 seconds in the clock. No excuse for the TO call.

5 or 6 seconds that is.

HC totally panicked. He basically admitted this when he said play clock had wound down. Sorry Bob - thats wrong. There was 5 or 6 seconds left. Absolutely pitiful for a college fb coach.

And to call a run coming out of the time out is just as pitiful, if not worse.

With his football experience this stress panic disorder is incurable. BD needs to understand this and have someone else make the calls in crunch time, which is an acceptable solution.

Now if he sees the wrong D set up for the given playcall then that's another matter.

ps With this post I am done with this situation - it solves nothing. Kwan - thanks again for a great display of the facts.

 

[BugsyCT]

Wish this was enforced. A play near the goal line ending with 12 seconds and not getting a chance to get to the scrimmage line for another snap is ludicrous.

Did Navy Get Away With a Penalty at the End of the Game?

 

[Dooley]

No. Absolutely not.

First, if the play wasn't a pass, thinking that BS on his own is going to say "I feel like everyone might not be comfortable with the play, I'll just throw it away" is absurd. Not his job and not going to happen. Second, there was no reason we couldn't run three plays after the TO if the first two were limited to quick throws, with the playbook then being opened up on 4th down. I don't know where this "it's o.k. To give up one of our three chances" crap is coming from.

I would have much rather run a play than burn that timeout. You throw a fade to Hergy in the end zone. If it's not there, you put it in the 1st row. Get to the line, hand check, quick read snap, loft fade to the back corner pylon. You're throwing high using Hergy's height advantage. 3-5 seconds come off the clock tops.

One thing overlooked is that the timeout gave the replay booth time to review Hergy's catch on the 1. What if he juggled that ball a little? Or it moved an inch and the officials in the booth deemed it was enough to rule it incomplete? I don't agree with wanting the ball at the 10. I want it on the 1...WITH A TIMEOUT. Keep run in the back of the defense's minds.

My clock management would have went something like this...

Mayala makes catch on 1. 17 seconds left. 1st and goal at Navy's 1.

1st and goal, 17 seconds left: back pylon fade to Hergy. If incomplete...

2nd and goal, 12 seconds left: naked play-action bootleg rollout to right, slipping Tyler Davis/Tommy Myers/Alec Bloom across the D front for a pass option. If incomplete or BS is tackled, CALL TIMEOUT to discuss your best scoring play...

3rd and goal, 3-5 seconds left: 4 spread wide (Thomas, Mayala, Davis, Bloom/Myers...I want height), 1 RB (RonJon) in backfield to keep D honest but read pass protect. If they drop 8 into coverage, release the back into end zone. Put the ball in Sheriffs hands and let him decide pass/scramble.

Point is - I want the ball in our best player's hands that afternoon for 3 plays. No question that Sheriffs was our best player against Navy. His 88% pass completion that day should've built up enough confidence to take a 1st down back pylon shot without wasting the timeout. I'm not giving up one of our 3 chances - I'm just saying that I trust BS to make the right decision and throw on 1st down there.

 

[Dooley]

Wish this was enforced. A play near the goal line ending with 12 seconds and not getting a chance to get to the scrimmage line for another snap is ludicrous.

Did Navy Get Away With a Penalty at the End of the Game?

I agree but I also think that if our guys were making a bit more of an effort to rush back to the line, the refs would have had no choice but to whistle the play dead. If you watch the replay, most of our guys were just kind of watching the pile, hands on hips, standing around and waiting. I want my OL to pick up and toss their guys off of RonJon and run to the LOS. Make the officials blow the play dead and dole out a hanky to Navy, if necessary.

 

[BugsyCT]

I agree but I also think that if our guys were making a bit more of an effort to rush back to the line, the refs would have had no choice but to whistle the play dead. If you watch the replay, most of our guys were just kind of watching the pile, hands on hips, standing around and waiting. I want my OL to pick up and toss their guys off of RonJon and run to the LOS. Make the officials blow the play dead and dole out a hanky to Navy, if necessary.

That's the thing. I don't get the lack of urgency & confusion by our players. You'd think since they called a TO, they'd discuss what to do if the run got stuffed. They had maybe 3 linemen back to the LOS when time ran out.

If you watch the replay you see Noel throw his helmet in frustration. Can't blame him.

 

[RabidHusky]

I can only fathom that Diaco freaked because he saw something he didn't like. Maybe because he did not see Allmendinger in the game? Maybe he wanted to second-guess the play call? Maybe he was an early riser and liked to pack in the morning? And maybe he didn't have any friends? I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about the time out habits of Bob Diaco.

Maybe he was an early riser and liked to pack in the morning? And maybe he didn't have any friends? I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about the time out habits of Bob Diac

You wanted that timeout, you needed that time out, so why dont you just say thank you Bob.