A New Look Mount Rushmore

[Surly1]

As we anxiously await tonight's matchup and the hype of Paige vs JuJu, I want to address how Paige is viewed in the pantheon of UConn greats, and how Sarah Strong is off to an electrifying start in carving a spot out for herself.

Unfortunately for Paige, the legacy of 11 NC's is used as a standard for inclusion by many people. It is my assertion that whether UConn wins a 12th this season, her legacy is already cemented. Of course, a NC title does wonders for her palmares. Winning a NC is a monumental accomplishment. Winning 11 in a little over 20+ years is absurd. It makes comparisons for current & future players unrealistic. Why? The women's game has changed and grown immensely since UConn's last title. It has seen an explosion of talent, much like the men's game after the UCLA dynasty under John Wooden ended. What UConn accomplished under Geno will be impossible to duplicate in the era of NIL and immediate transfer eligibility.

In most years when UConn won the NC, they clearly had the best team and players. The exception may have been Diana's last 2 years. While UConn still gets the top players (Paige, Azzi & Sarah), I would argue that other programs have more talent throughout their roster. The second 5 of South Carolina alone would be a top 5 team, and one could make a strong case they are better than their starters. Talent is spread throughout the country and there's transcendent talent on ND, USC, Texas and LSU to name a few. It's hard to win, let alone repeat. SC has a tremendous opportunity this year, but it is no given. Even with Aliyah Boston, SC won only one title.

There are so many variables that go into winning, it takes more than one dominant player, and a lot of things have to fall in place. The margin between winning can come down to a game winning shot (UConn fans have felt that pain), a questionable call here or there, and unfortunately, injuries.

In Paige's 3 seasons, UConn has reached the Final Four and the title game once. This may seem like a minor accomplishment to UConn fans, but for virtually every other program, it would be a major achievement. Her freshman year, the team lost to a peaking Arizona team. Had they gotten by them, I feel they would have defeated Stanford for the title. The next season, Paige came back from a midseason injury to lead them into the title against SC. SC was clearly the best team in the country, and even if Paige was 100%, along with a healthy Azzi, SC would still be favored. Last year, UConn, with a young, undermanned team, was a play away from appearing in the NC game. Again, had they made it, SC would have been the overwhelming favorite. That UConn got as far as it did was due to a tremendous run by Paige.

Maya Moore is the all-time scoring leader and has the highest career scoring average at 19.8. Going into tonight's game, Paige has scored 1910 points in 96 games. If she stays on her current trajectory (she's a 20.0+ scorer healthy), she has a realistic chance to surpass Napheesa Collier as UConn's 3rd all-time leading scorer, and supplant Maya with the highest scoring average, despite playing roughly 30 less games compared to the top 2, Breanna & Maya. Also, like Maya, Paige will have shot over 50% for each of her 4 seasons. Breanna just missed this exclusive club by shooting 49% her soph year. Paige has the individual credentials, including being the only freshman NPOY.

While speculative, Paige will almost certainly be selected as a first-team AA, her third time winning such honors. Winning a NC is a very realistic proposition, particularly with a healthy Azzi and Aubrey Griffin, to go along with the phenom Sarah Strong. This is the potentially most talented team Paige has played on in her 4 years. While winning a title would erase the only thing missing on her resume, I would argue that it is not necessary for her to be included on UConn's Mount Rushmore.

Winning a title this year would fast track Sarah Strong into the conversation of all-time greats. I realize she's only 11 games in to her college career, and it's beyond premature to speculate on how it will turn out, but based on the eye test, there's a high probability that once her career concludes, we'll be discussing where she ranks in the pantheon.

 

[arch]

As we anxiously await tonight's matchup and the hype of Paige vs JuJu, I want to address how Paige is viewed in the pantheon of UConn greats, and how Sarah Strong is off to an electrifying start in carving a spot out for herself.

Unfortunately for Paige, the legacy of 11 NC's is used as a standard for inclusion by many people. It is my assertion that whether UConn wins a 12th this season, her legacy is already cemented. Of course, a NC title does wonders for her palmares. Winning a NC is a monumental accomplishment. Winning 11 in a little over 20+ years is absurd. It makes comparisons for current & future players unrealistic. Why? The women's game has changed and grown immensely since UConn's last title. It has seen an explosion of talent, much like the men's game after the UCLA dynasty under John Wooden ended. What UConn accomplished under Geno will be impossible to duplicate in the era of NIL and immediate transfer eligibility.

In most years when UConn won the NC, they clearly had the best team and players. The exception may have been Diana's last 2 years. While UConn still gets the top players (Paige, Azzi & Sarah), I would argue that other programs have more talent throughout their roster. The second 5 of South Carolina alone would be a top 5 team, and one could make a strong case they are better than their starters. Talent is spread throughout the country and there's transcendent talent on ND, USC, Texas and LSU to name a few. It's hard to win, let alone repeat. SC has a tremendous opportunity this year, but it is no given. Even with Aliyah Boston, SC won only one title.

There are so many variables that go into winning, it takes more than one dominant player, and a lot of things have to fall in place. The margin between winning can come down to a game winning shot (UConn fans have felt that pain), a questionable call here or there, and unfortunately, injuries.

In Paige's 3 seasons, UConn has reached the Final Four and the title game once. This may seem like a minor accomplishment to UConn fans, but for virtually every other program, it would be a major achievement. Her freshman year, the team lost to a peaking Arizona team. Had they gotten by them, I feel they would have defeated Stanford for the title. The next season, Paige came back from a midseason injury to lead them into the title against SC. SC was clearly the best team in the country, and even if Paige was 100%, along with a healthy Azzi, SC would still be favored. Last year, UConn, with a young, undermanned team, was a play away from appearing in the NC game. Again, had they made it, SC would have been the overwhelming favorite. That UConn got as far as it did was due to a tremendous run by Paige.

Maya Moore is the all-time scoring leader and has the highest career scoring average at 19.8. Going into tonight's game, Paige has scored 1910 points in 96 games. If she stays on her current trajectory (she's a 20.0+ scorer healthy), she has a realistic chance to surpass Napheesa Collier as UConn's 3rd all-time leading scorer, and supplant Maya with the highest scoring average, despite playing roughly 30 less games compared to the top 2, Breanna & Maya. Also, like Maya, Paige will have shot over 50% for each of her 4 seasons. Breanna just missed this exclusive club by shooting 49% her soph year. Paige has the individual credentials, including being the only freshman NPOY.

While speculative, Paige will almost certainly be selected as a first-team AA, her third time winning such honors. Winning a NC is a very realistic proposition, particularly with a healthy Azzi and Aubrey Griffin, to go along with the phenom Sarah Strong. This is the potentially most talented team Paige has played on in her 4 years. While winning a title would erase the only thing missing on her resume, I would argue that it is not necessary for her to be included on UConn's Mount Rushmore.

Winning a title this year would fast track Sarah Strong into the conversation of all-time greats. I realize she's only 11 games in to her college career, and it's beyond premature to speculate on how it will turn out, but based on the eye test, there's a high probability that once her career concludes, we'll be discussing where she ranks in the pantheon.

“Palmarès”? Did you mean “onderscheidingen”?

 

[Bills Fan]

Surly, if you are putting Paige on the Mount, who is she replacing?

 

[From France]

Nothing to care cause UCONN already have 3 or 4 Mount Rushmore

 

[Dogdude]

Agreed. I think using championships as a measurement of greatness now becomes difficult to justify. The spreading of talent makes it difficult, and the quality of talent has become much deeper. For young girls, basketball is now a "thing" and more are playing than ever, which only increases the talent pool. And, as Geno has said during the pregame comments, it's not Paige vs. Juju, it's team vs. team. Without the team, no one is winning anything. Paige is more than qualified to be up there with anyone, of any generation.

 

[Bone Dog]

I’d yell “Paige” at the top of my lungs. But at least one member of the BY would fault me for not giving Caitlin any recognition.

 

[Kaizen]

Paige Bueckers, a UConn women's basketball player, graduated with a cumulative grade point average (GPA) of 3.497:

• Fall 2023 GPA: Bueckers earned a 3.930 GPA in the fall 2023 semester
  
  
• Academic achievements: Bueckers has been named to the UConn Dean's list four times, and is a six-time member of the Director of Athletics' Honor Roll
  
  
• Awards: Bueckers was named the 2023-24 College Sports Communicators First Team Academic All-American and the 2024 Big East WBB Scholar-Athlete of the Year
  

Bueckers graduated in May 2024 with a bachelor's degree in human development and family sciences. She has been praised for her academic achievements, with some fans saying her academic game is as strong as her on-court game.

 

[Skeets]

I don't think there is much debate over the first 3 spots on the Mount. Paige could be the 4th by default, but that would be a precarious position. Why? Well, let's say Paige does not win an NC (don't throw rocks at me, I'm making this up) but someone like Ms. Strong comes along, is equally dominating over her career, and wins a couple of NCs. Suddenly Paige finds herself in the foothills, albeit along with other excellent players.

 

[browns]

There is no way Paige gets on the mount without a championship..otherwise it's a farse ..look at the ones that have won 2 titles and there not on it..It's reserved for the all time greats
look at last year and they had a god chance to make it to the finals but instead of leading her team she was a no show in the 4th quarter
She's a distant 3rd of POY and many think that Sara is the best player on the team..Paige scores 22 on 22 shots with 3 rebounds and 2 assists last night..come on except for the NC State game 3 years ago she doesn't shine in big games like she did as a freshman

 

[meyers7]

While speculative, Paige will almost certainly be selected as a first-team AA, her third time winning such honors. Winning a NC is a very realistic proposition, particularly with a healthy Azzi and Aubrey Griffin, to go along with the phenom Sarah Strong. This is the potentially most talented team Paige has played on in her 4 years. While winning a title would erase the only thing missing on her resume, I would argue that it is not necessary for her to be included on UConn's Mount Rushmore.

I would disagree. For UCONN, you got to have a NC (really, more than 1). AND Moore/Taurasi and Stewart all have multiple NCs and also have more than 1 NPOY award. Bueckers is going to have to get going if she's going to get another one this year. (either - and she needs both)

 

[hoopsfan22]

My 4th Rushmore spot goes to Sue. My second tier is for players like Tina, Rebecca, etc. who all have at least one title or multiple seasons of NPOY awards or the special circumstance of playing a prominent role in the development and formation of the program. Third tier are for those that get on the wall but aren't in the first two categories.

 

[browns]

My 4th Rushmore spot goes to Sue. My second tier is for players like Tina, Rebecca, etc. who all have at least one title or multiple seasons of NPOY awards or the special circumstance of playing a prominent role in the development and formation of the program. Third tier are for those that get on the wall but aren't in the first two categories.

Well said

 

[meyers7]

My 4th Rushmore spot goes to Sue. My second tier is for players like Tina, Rebecca, etc. who all have at least one title or multiple seasons of NPOY awards or the special circumstance of playing a prominent role in the development and formation of the program. Third tier are for those that get on the wall but aren't in the first two categories.

If you count post UCONN career, then sure. But just UCONN career?, unless you just want 4, and even then... I would disagree. Unfortunately, I think she missed too much time with her ACL. She only had 1 AA season (granted it was a NPOY season also). I would take Charles or Bueckers (if she won a NC) before Bird.

For me it's just the 3 right now. Waiting for a 4th.

Here's my Tiers

Mt Storrs - Taurasi, Moore, Stewart
Tier 1 - Lobo, Abrosimova, Bird, Charles, Jefferson
Tier 2 - Bascom, Rizotti, Wolters, Sales, Cash, Dolson, KML, Collier, KLS, GWilliams

 

[hoopsfan22]

If you count post UCONN career, then sure. But just UCONN career?, unless you just want 4, and even then... I would disagree. Unfortunately, I think she missed too much time with her ACL. She only had 1 AA season (granted it was a NPOY season also). I would take Charles or Bueckers (if she won a NC) before Bird.

For me it's just the 3 right now. Waiting for a 4th.

Then swap Bird in with Charles. Two titles, one POY and maybe could have had another if not for her teammate.

 

[oldhusky]

I don't think there is much debate over the first 3 spots on the Mount. Paige could be the 4th by default, but that would be a precarious position. Why? Well, let's say Paige does not win an NC (don't throw rocks at me, I'm making this up) but someone like Ms. Strong comes along, is equally dominating over her career, and wins a couple of NCs. Suddenly Paige finds herself in the foothills, albeit along with other excellent players.

I agree on the first three being obvious, but completely disagree that Paige gets the fourth by default There are several excellent candidates for the last spot. Players that had great Uconn careers, with a championship, and have also won WNBA titles and Gold on the Olympic team,, and sometimes been the #1draft pick, and some national player of the year awards.

Paige's resume at Uconn may be drawing to a close, and she might arguably be the fourth best player, and probably will be the #1 pick, and of course was the player of the year. If this is just what you did at Uconn, maybe, but even then, I think if she doesn't win a championship that should be a significant factor.

If the Mount is based on the best career of a former Uconn player, then her quest is just beginning and while she might achieve some of those things, it is a very very high bar. If fact a single NCAA, WNBA, or Olympic championship doesn't even make you stand out from the crowd. In addition Sue is the all time leader in the W in assists, and Tina is the same for rebounds I believe. Both are probable future Hall of Famers.

Even if you consider only the college career, I think a championship matters. Maybe this year.

 

[meyers7]

Then swap Bird in with Charles. Two titles, one POY and maybe could have had another if not for her teammate.

I'd rather wait.

 

[jdote33]

Interesting discussion about Paige, with an ex UConn champ

 

[Bone Dog]

Interesting discussion about Paige, with an ex UConn champ

Is Maria accounting for the fact that the 3pt line is further out now? I think she’s right to think Paige might have missed that shot against Iowa if the whistle hadn’t been blown, just because she looked tired. I’m not sure what to make of the comparison to Diana on 3pt percentages. Paige’s stats look pretty much better than Diana’s and from a deeper perimeter. And Paige has taken a few of “those shots.” Diana won NCs and Paige hasn’t. Maybe Paige had better teams around her, though I’m dubious of this, and Paige played in a time with much more parity. All in all, I’m not sure Maria’s comparison there is really fair.

 

[jdote33]

Is Maria accounting for the fact that the 3pt line is further out now? I think she’s right to think Paige might have missed that shot against Iowa if the whistle hadn’t been blown, just because she looked tired. I’m not sure what to make of the comparison to Diana on 3pt percentages. Paige’s stats look pretty much better than Diana’s and from a deeper perimeter. And Paige has taken a few of “those shots.” Diana won NCs and Paige hasn’t. Maybe Paige had better teams around her, though I’m dubious of this, and Paige played in a time with much more parity. All in all, I’m not sure Maria’s comparison there is really fair.

Yeah I agree. I liked the discussion. Although it was critical, I think everyone was just stating their opinions pretty respectfully. But I basically disagree on all Maria's talking points tho I am a huge fan and I kinda love that she's holding Paige to a high standard and not sugar coating anything. I do like some of the criticisms in terms of the physicality and her shooting ability. I don't like that ppl think Paige just needs to turn on a switch. I think she has to get better like all players do. It's not as simple as she has to be aggressive. Can she create her own shot off the dribble or off of pick and roll. There were moments against usc where she drove and has a step but passed cuz she couldn't create her own shot.Great point you made about the 3pt line. I also agree with you Paige has taken and made those shots. I mean I do think Diana is a 1 of 1, and her shot vs Tennessee kinda comes to mind. But obviously Paige had a shot vs South Carolina, a relatively clutch shot vs Tennessee. I was there for the NC State elite 8 game, she made a bunch of super clutch shots.
I also don't think this year's UConn team is much better than juju's team. Of course I'd take UConn (I stan) but Kiki and Sarah kinda cancel each other out. TVO and Kaitlyn are kind of a wash. I think Marshall being a senior and just supremely athletic is a bit better than ice at this point. I think Azzi and Ash kinda swing it in UConn's favor but Azzi wasn't healthy for the matchup and Ash was kinda matched by Kennedy Smith who is a really good freshman, will probably put up comparable numbers to Ash. She also inferred that Paige lacks intangibles. She literally was playing 4 positions last year and even this year some. I associate basketball instincts with intangibles. Nevertheless, Maria was obviously there for the Notre Dame loss last year, probably watched the USC game closely..and she literally played alongside Diana so I get it a bit, pumping the breaks. I also get the frustration. I think she expects a big, dominant game in these marquee matchups. I kinda did at one point. But after last year I pumped the breaks as well. Heading into the season I thought Paige was the 3rd best player in college basketball behind Hidalgo and Watkins. Honestly, last Saturday was probably one of juju's better games in terms of not ball hogging and making the correct plays. Maybe they sold out too much on defense.
So that was kinda where she and some of the others on the panel ended, that Paige is still very good which I agree with.

 

[hoophuskee]

Is Maria accounting for the fact that the 3pt line is further out now? I think she’s right to think Paige might have missed that shot against Iowa if the whistle hadn’t been blown, just because she looked tired. I’m not sure what to make of the comparison to Diana on 3pt percentages. Paige’s stats look pretty much better than Diana’s and from a deeper perimeter. And Paige has taken a few of “those shots.” Diana won NCs and Paige hasn’t. Maybe Paige had better teams around her, though I’m dubious of this, and Paige played in a time with much more parity. All in all, I’m not sure Maria’s comparison there is really fair.

You know many years ago I watched SNY show of Meg, Kara and another person speaking of voting for UCONN's top 10 of all-time. At the tops was Stewie but Kara and Meg didn't like it stating Stewie's teams had more talent. . . Further down but near the top was also Tina Charles but Kara and Meg didn't like it stating Tina's teams had more talent among other reasons. . . Further down was Moriah Jefferson but Kara and Meg didn't like it stating MoJeff's teams had more talent among other reasons. . . . Kara is way too humble and way too nice to suggest herself and Meg has total love for Kara but throw this aside what Meg and Kara do is what we all do to a degree is "protect your past." While the #1 player isn't part or very limited part of Kara's past they still favor their past.

This is clear what Maria so doing as well. Every once in a while former players make some comments that make you say, "What?" For example Paige has more to play with than Juju has is what Maria said. But then Maria is directly criticizing Paige for not shooting more. huuuhhhh?????????????????? It was cracking me up! If you love to pass more and you supposedly have more shooters then why would you be criticized becuase you're not shooting more? Also, is it "today," that it's okay to criticize Paige for not shooting but last year vs Syracuse in final minute it's okay that she passed the ball to a good teammate? Please see vid below with ball inbounded at 50 seconds.

And just some other laughable comments. Them trying to draw any comparison between Paige and Alex Karaban is like me comparing John Thomas from the old Yankee Conference days to Big East Ray Allen. And other notable crazy comments Maria stating Paige was "awful" vs Iowa. "Awful?" And then in some combo Meg and Maria talking about a lingering effect on Paige if she missed that final seconds shot? WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????? And Maria making a comment that Paige hasn't "taken that big shot?" WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????? A lot of the criticism Maria is manufacturing I could only think is similar to above that she felt a need to protect DT but there is no need. Nobody is saying Paige is DT. So, you don’t need to manufacture some of the comments that were made. That's all.

 

[Dogstar]

I totally believe her whn she says.....I DON'T ThINK..... Every word after tht sounds like... Blah Blah Blah Blah to me.