A Case for Kansas to the Big East

[billybud]

The problem may be Fox...

Fox turned down televising the Big 12 Championship game and refused to begin an early renegotiation of the Big 12 media contract...and that was with big brands Texas and Oklahoma still on board.

Fox doesn't seem that interested.

 

[mikeinmanila]

Would switch Temple with West Virginia. If Temple was kept, would need to add both Army AND Navy.

 

[JeepCSC]

Let’s start with UConn is not joining the Big East.

Now with that out of the way, consider what might be possible.

First, as a Jayhawk, let’s not lose any love on UT or the Sooners. Keep the conference together long enough for the wire transfers to hit the account.

Then consider what is the best for Kansas, and being basketball-first might allow Kansas to consider all scenarios.

Here is a Scenario, as soon as the exit fee checks clear the Big 12/8 dissolves. No more exit fees. (UConn collected big exit fees and then left the AAC).

The Big East expands in partnership with Fox.

Creighton
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Xavier
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State

Nova
UConn
Georgetown
St Johns
Seton Hall
Providence
Temple
Cincinnati

How? Fox increases the basketball focused Big East contract to $6M per school. That is fair value and makes the membership orientated for the change.

In what seems like “over payment” on face value, Fox pays out Football rights on a sliding scale to the football schools. Kansas is made whole on its fair Big 12 value post UT/OU. Fox accounts for the $6M it is paying for hoops and makes up the rest to Kansas. It does the same for the other programs joining on a smaller scale based on value.

On the whole, Fox pays for increasing the value of the Big East in part by paying individual football rights. The football result could be a conference sponsored sport or just a Big East Alliance.

Fox backs away from the balance of the AAC and Big 12, and offsets the new spending without having to pay Tulsa, Tulane, etc.

Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
UConn
Villanova
Temple
Cincinnati
Navy or Army, whoever chooses first as football only.

8 teams for football leaves nice room for scheduling others, a good balance of a base schedule and the independent scheduling opportunity.

In hoops we play twice in division and across division once, with the option for specific teams to play twice across divisions.

In other non-rev sports you do what makes sense sport-by-sport, having some sports only play in-division until conference championships, in others cross-division. The Division footprints are reasonable and there is good cost and travel time reasons to keep some sports more in the divisional footprint.

The Big East is nicely constructed in it’s current 11 team - 20 game full double round-robin format. If we don’t change, we’re good.

Making big changes to bring in a Temple or Iowa State doesn’t make sense, but to accommodate Kansas it’s worth consideration.

Fox is going to guesstimate what a non-OuT Big XII would make, and then blow it up and write a contract to pay Kansas football over $10 million just because? And so a football conference will be born where schools get paid vastly different amounts based on what they could have made elsewhere in an alternate 2025? And in the next contract would Kansas get a bump based on speculation + inflation? Am I understanding all that correctly?

 

[Fishy]

Let’s start with UConn is not joining the Big East.

Now with that out of the way, consider what might be possible.

First, as a Jayhawk, let’s not lose any love on UT or the Sooners. Keep the conference together long enough for the wire transfers to hit the account.

Then consider what is the best for Kansas, and being basketball-first might allow Kansas to consider all scenarios.

Here is a Scenario, as soon as the exit fee checks clear the Big 12/8 dissolves. No more exit fees. (UConn collected big exit fees and then left the AAC).

The Big East expands in partnership with Fox.

Creighton
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Xavier
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State

Nova
UConn
Georgetown
St Johns
Seton Hall
Providence
Temple
Cincinnati

How? Fox increases the basketball focused Big East contract to $6M per school. That is fair value and makes the membership orientated for the change.

In what seems like “over payment” on face value, Fox pays out Football rights on a sliding scale to the football schools. Kansas is made whole on its fair Big 12 value post UT/OU. Fox accounts for the $6M it is paying for hoops and makes up the rest to Kansas. It does the same for the other programs joining on a smaller scale based on value.

On the whole, Fox pays for increasing the value of the Big East in part by paying individual football rights. The football result could be a conference sponsored sport or just a Big East Alliance.

Fox backs away from the balance of the AAC and Big 12, and offsets the new spending without having to pay Tulsa, Tulane, etc.

Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
UConn
Villanova
Temple
Cincinnati
Navy or Army, whoever chooses first as football only.

8 teams for football leaves nice room for scheduling others, a good balance of a base schedule and the independent scheduling opportunity.

In hoops we play twice in division and across division once, with the option for specific teams to play twice across divisions.

In other non-rev sports you do what makes sense sport-by-sport, having some sports only play in-division until conference championships, in others cross-division. The Division footprints are reasonable and there is good cost and travel time reasons to keep some sports more in the divisional footprint.

The Big East is nicely constructed in it’s current 11 team - 20 game full double round-robin format. If we don’t change, we’re good.

Making big changes to bring in a Temple or Iowa State doesn’t make sense, but to accommodate Kansas it’s worth consideration.

You spent way too much time that. It’s all nonsense.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Kansas will come to the Big East if the Big East can somehow present a scenerio to Fox that will pay each member around $10M per year. Is it possible? Maybe but it will take lots of creative thinking.

 

[BlueDogs]

Kansas will come to the Big East if the Big East can somehow present a scenerio to Fox that will pay each member around $10M per year. Is it possible? Maybe but it will take lots of creative thinking.

They make 38M a year now. Big 12 Conf. $$ will definitely drop post-OU and TX but these schools can't live on Big East $$ even at $10M. Even if the BE could find a way above $4M, nobody is paying up to watch De Paul vs. Kansas State in a high school gym. NBE acolytes are disconnected from reality. The one exception is the NBE transforms into a football-playing conference for those that wish to do so, and a separate media rights arrangement is generated for those that contribute. But, the Catholic schools will never allow themselves to lose control over their weekend church league.

 

[John Greene]

They make 38M a year now. Big 12 Conf. $$ will definitely drop post-OU and TX but these schools can't live on Big East $$ even at $10M. Even if the BE could find a way above $4M, nobody is paying up to watch De Paul vs. Kansas State in a high school gym. NBE acolytes are disconnected from reality. The one exception is the NBE transforms into a football-playing conference for those that wish to do so, and a separate media rights arrangement is generated for those that contribute. But, the Catholic schools will never allow themselves to lose control over their weekend church league.

Please tell me you are kidding with the hybrid conference comment. Isn't that how we got into this mess in the first go around.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

They make 38M a year now. Big 12 Conf. $$ will definitely drop post-OU and TX but these schools can't live on Big East $$ even at $10M. Even if the BE could find a way above $4M, nobody is paying up to watch De Paul vs. Kansas State in a high school gym. NBE acolytes are disconnected from reality. The one exception is the NBE transforms into a football-playing conference for those that wish to do so, and a separate media rights arrangement is generated for those that contribute. But, the Catholic schools will never allow themselves to lose control over their weekend church league.

$10M per year is for basketball only. I think they have to get creative and somehow get more from football indy or in another conference. A group of B12 schools can form a football-only conference along with UCONN while parking rest of the sports in the BE is another option.

I don't believe Catholic schools will want a hybrid conference again unless Fox really steps up and offer something good for the schools involved. It will all come down to money and the right media partner(s).

 

[JeepCSC]

$10M per year is for basketball only. I think they have to get creative and somehow get more from football indy or in another conference. A group of B12 schools can form a football-only conference along with UCONN while parking rest of the sports in the BE is another option.

I don't believe Catholic schools will want a hybrid conference again unless Fox really steps up and offer something good for the schools involved. It will all come down to money and the right media partner(s).

So they’d have to create a football-only conference just so they can join the BE? The BE isn’t that attractive. Kansas won’t separate basketball-football except as a last resort if they have no options. For now, the new Big 8 is the plan, and then when/if it gets picked apart, they’d likely be top 2 (with OSU) to get picked up by a power conference. A thousand things would have to go wrong for Kansas to call the BE.

 

[BlueDogs]

Please tell me you are kidding with the hybrid conference comment. Isn't that how we got into this mess in the first go around.

That's the only feasible pathway, and I dont see it. The Big12 is better off grabbing BYU, BSU, Cincy and USF ad making a go of it.

 

[Zissou]

You spent way too much time that. It’s all nonsense.

It was nothing, just a few minutes of logical expression.

 

[Zissou]

The problem may be Fox...

Fox turned down televising the Big 12 Championship game and refused to begin an early renegotiation of the Big 12 media contract...and that was with big brands Texas and Oklahoma still on board.

Fox doesn't seem that interested.

They weren’t interested in locking in with the two marquees heading out. That’s smart planning.

 

[don356]

The unification of the better football schools in the AAC with the remaining 8 in the B12 is the play. That has the potential to be a very good conference in both fball and bball. It's a last resort for a football school to go indy in football and join a league for basketball.

 

[Zissou]

Fox is going to guesstimate what a non-OuT Big XII would make, and then blow it up and write a contract to pay Kansas football over $10 million just because? And so a football conference will be born where schools get paid vastly different amounts based on what they could have made elsewhere in an alternate 2025? And in the next contract would Kansas get a bump based on speculation + inflation? Am I understanding all that correctly?

Pretty close. Let’s say $6M per school in the basketball conference. Let’s make a value assumption on Kansas in the big 12 at $15M. So Kansas gets a $10M deal on a football alliance agreement. With Kansas peeled away value drops more. K state and Iowa State get $7M. The rest get $5M for football. Fox gets arguably the premier basketball conference for $6M per team and a full schedule 8 team football alliance for $50M. That’s a good value for content.

Would UConn be happy adding Kansas for hoops, reconnecting with Cincy, having a 7 game set football schedule with some rivalry, and get $11M for TV? I think so! That’s not even counting the distribution UConn will get from Nova’s ncaa tournament points.

 

[JeepCSC]

Pretty close. Let’s say $6M per school in the basketball conference. Let’s make a value assumption on Kansas in the big 12 at $15M. So Kansas gets a $10M deal on a football alliance agreement. With Kansas peeled away value drops more. K state and Iowa State get $7M. The rest get $5M for football. Fox gets arguably the premier basketball conference for $6M per team and a full schedule 8 team football alliance for $50M. That’s a good value for content.

Would UConn be happy adding Kansas for hoops, reconnecting with Cincy, having a 7 game set football schedule with some rivalry, and get $11M for TV? I think so! That’s not even counting the distribution UConn will get from Nova’s ncaa tournament points.

But again, even if Fox negotiated with no one to concoct multiple imaginary Big XII contracts, and KSU and ISU signed on to get paid less. How do you even begin to negotiate a second contact in 5 years? “We will pay you based on a situation that never happened 5 years ago, and give you a nice inflation bump just because”?

 

[Zissou]

But again, even if Fox negotiated with no one to concoct multiple imaginary Big XII contracts, and KSU and ISU signed on to get paid less. How do you even begin to negotiate a second contact in 5 years? “We will pay you based on a situation that never happened 5 years ago, and give you a nice inflation bump just because”?

Give Kansas a 5-year renewal option on football after the first 5 year base deal.

 

[billybud]

They weren’t interested in locking in with the two marquees heading out. That’s smart planning.

So...when no one else knew two years ago that Texas and Oklahoma were scooting to the SEC, Fox had a crystal ball?

 

[Zissou]

So...when no one else knew two years ago that Texas and Oklahoma were scooting to the SEC, Fox had a crystal ball?

Everyone knew the risk of them leaving. Even us, here.

 

[billybud]

Everyone knew the risk of them leaving. Even us, here.

LOL...yeah...the BY has had it all covered...Pac 12 expanding, WVU to the ACC, UConn to the Big 12, Clemson to the SEC, UNC, Duke, Virginia to the B1G...Kansas to the B1G....over the years, I don't think many combinationa have been missed.

 

[Zissou]

LOL...yeah...the BY has had it all covered...Pac 12 expanding, WVU to the ACC, UConn to the Big 12, Clemson to the SEC, UNC, Duke, Virginia to the B1G...Kansas to the B1G....over the years, I don't think many combinationa have been missed.

UConn to the Big East…

Don’t water down what is logical with comments like “WVU to the ACC”

 

[don356]

It was nothing, just a few minutes of logical expression.

You should rephrase that to "illogical expression".

 

[John Greene]

You should rephrase that to "illogical expression".

If you are not careful he will hit you with the ultimate "logical expression' argument.

Nova stays in the BE for BB, becomes a FB only member of the SEC because ESPN wants the Philly market in their new deal.

 

[Zissou]

You should rephrase that to "illogical expression".

Ok Spock

 

[billybud]

UConn to the Big East…

Don’t water down what is logical with comments like “WVU to the ACC”

Logical?

The Yard is not logical...the Yard throws everything out there....

 

[kingdobbs]

Full Disclosure:

I am a Connecticut native, resident, UConn alumnus ('74), long-time hockey season ticketholder, and died-in-the-wool Husky fan. So I am far from unbiased, but..................the notion that Kansas might join the Big East is fantasy.

Let's, for the moment, dispense with the analysis of $$$$$$. Look, I have spent my entire adult life as a self-employed investment/insurance broker, so I pay attention to every nickel and dime I am able produce, without any union or taxpayer safety net. So, for the moment, let us just look at some of the non-financial aspects of a potential move from the Big12 to the Big East for Kansas.

Why would Kansas want to send its men's baseball, cross country, golf, and track & field teams to Providence, UConn, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown, or any other East Coast school? And its women's soccer, volleyball, cross country, golf, rowing, swimming tennis and track & field teams to the same? They (if the opportunity presented itself) would much prefer the better competition from geographically, and culturally comparable, BiG schools such as Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, etc, etc, etc.

Kansas joining the Big East for basketball is akin to UConn having joined the AAC for football.............shortsighted.

Fully ten of the sports you mentioned do not have conference competition outside of a yearly league championship.