A case for football independence

[UConn07]

Agreed, Nelson. Most people on this board are in denial. The America 12 is unsustainable for many different reasons. If UConn has the misfortune of being affiliated with this cesspool for more than 3 years, one of three things absolutley will have to occur. A) the football program will have to go independent B) the football program will have to shut down and basketball programs can realign C) UConn can die an ugly death
Repeat, the America 12 is unsustainable long term for an elite and/or profitable athletic program in ANY sport.

Other rational people do exist on this board!

 

[jbdphi]

Because you say so? I believe they were interested in playing for 10 straight years with games in Foxboro/Meadowlands, but ho hum we needed these games to be played in CT. Bet we are begging them to reconsider that now, huh? You brainiacs that think you know it all are ridiculous. No forward thinking. No thinking of anything outside football. This school is bigger than the football program and the football program can also survive without a conference.

Given you are presumably not a football person, are you aware of the Notre Dame football commitment to the ACC? I believe it is 5-6 games per year must be played against ACC schools. Add in USC, Michigan, Purdue and Navy and you basically already have 10 games spoken for (and that doesn't include a few other traditional annual matchups for ND). There is very little room going forward for ND in football scheduling. In fact, they'll probably need to drop a few.

Is that a good enough fact for you? And I didn't even need to insult you to make my point...

 

[Adios]

Memphis basketball totally suffered in the C-USA, a conference that's even worse. What a bunch of babies some of you are.

 

[UConn07]

Given you are presumably not a football person, are you aware of the Notre Dame football commitment to the ACC? I believe it is 5-6 games per year must be played against ACC schools. Add in USC, Michigan, Purdue and Navy and you basically already have 10 games spoken for (and that doesn't include a few other traditional annual matchups for ND). There is very little room going forward for ND in football scheduling. In fact, they'll probably need to drop a few.

Is that a good enough fact for you? And I didn't even need to insult you to make my point...

Believe it or not, I am a football guy first. I also know Notre Dame would love to have games in the northeast at the new Meadowlands or in Foxboro or Fenway Park/Yankee Stadium.

But you also have to look at the athletic department as a whole, not just one sport.

 

[jbdphi]

Believe it or not, I am a football guy first. I also know Notre Dame would love to have games in the northeast at the new Meadowlands or in Foxboro or Fenway Park/Yankee Stadium.

But you also have to look at the athletic department as a whole, not just one sport.

I don't disagree. Look at the department as a whole and go back to my original point about a conference like the MWC which has survived with far less money than we have or will have (with all of the exit fees) with a geography just as diverse and with no geographic divisions?

If the A-12 went to 12 (which I would be against) I'd prefer UMass to Tulsa or someone further out to have more geographic proximity. But it isn't like one more local team will make all the difference. The A-12 can certainly be viable in short term and I think most agree that CR isn over yet. Leaping into football independence before things shake out seems like a foolish idea to me. Not only do you have all the risks that are being discussed here n terms of scheduling for football but you would also be likely walking away from $20 to $25 million in separation money. I don't think that gets made up for by any C7 contract and independent football rights payday.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

UConn07, you're just embarrassing yourself with your sheer ignorance on the situation. It's painfulreally how clueless you are about where things stand. Nelson atleast has an excuse that he's a UConn fan that just likes to rile people up on a message board.

Why we couldn't schedule as an Indy is beyond obvious to anyone with a half functioning brain.

A) None of our regional rivals will schedule UConn.
B) The power conferences are moving towards 9 game conference schedules.
C) We would lose any national exposure for the football program.
D) We would have no bowl tie-ins.
E) We at best would have 4 or 5 home games a season.
F) We would have to whore ourself out for contact games vs. SEC/B1G with no return dates to The Rent.
G) We don't have an invite to the New Catholic Big East. If we did someone gather an invite I guarantee it would include a long term grant of rights.

So, that is 7 good reasons why we have to stay where we are until we hopefully go somewhere what.

 

[The Funster]

I don't see how an independent can schedule 12 games when conferences are looking to schedule more conference games. I happen to like the concept that we can forge a strong rivalry with UMass. However, that is borne out of a desire to stick to BC rather than borne out of any belief that it will actually happen. I'm completely unwilling to fabricate an entire conference realignment scenario out of it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Notre Dame is as likely to play 6 acc games a year as UConn is to play in the Big 10. Notre Dame will probably play 4 a year, 2 of which are Pitt and BCU. The other 2 would be opponents of Notre Dame's choice, on a best efforts basis, and in November when it is hardest for ND schedule opponents.

The football program is more likely to be shutdown by joining the A12 than it would be by going independent. Shutting football down is on the table whether we want it to be or not. UConn needs to be in a situation where a) the school is as attractive to other leagues as possible, and b) the damage to the other programs from shutting down the football program is minimized.

 

[UConn07]

UConn07, you're just embarrassing yourself with your sheer ignorance on the situation. It's painfulreally how clueless you are about where things stand. Nelson atleast has an excuse that he's a UConn fan that just likes to rile people up on a message board.

Why we couldn't schedule as an Indy is beyond obvious to anyone with a half functioning brain.

A) None of our regional rivals will schedule UConn.
B) The power conferences are moving towards 9 game conference schedules.
C) We would lose any national exposure for the football program.
D) We would have no bowl tie-ins.
E) We at best would have 4 or 5 home games a season.
F) We would have to whore ourself out for contact games vs. SEC/B1G with no return dates to The Rent.
G) We don't have an invite to the New Catholic Big East. If we did someone gather an invite I guarantee it would include a long term grant of rights.

So, that is 7 good reasons why we have to stay where we are until we hopefully go somewhere what.

Let's touch each of your 7 reasons one at a time:
A. We are working on a deal with BC.
B. The power conferences are moving to a 9 game conference schedule, which means 25% of every schools schedule in college football is open.
C. Not true. Games against Notre Dame, Tennessee, Michigan & BYU will be broadcast nationally. Additional games against BCS level opponents will be on national television. In fact, as a member of the Big East in 2012, I believe only 1 game was televised nationally and that was Syracuse on a Friday night.
D. If we don't win games, we won't be considered either. If we beat up solid opponents and consistently win, bowls will come. If we win in a mediocre conference, we will play in a mediocre bowl. The goal in this day and age is to get to the playoff. Games against Tulane will not do that. Games against Notre Dame and BYU will.
E. So we only have 5 home games and 1 either in Foxboro or the Meadowlands. I'd rather be playing quality opponents more often, than play teams that will draw 20,000 for 6 home games a year.
F. Go schedule a neutral site one and done. Go schedule a pay day at Texas or Florida. These games will prove your C wrong as they would be televised nationally.
G. If the new catholic Big East sees we are trying to fit in to their type of league, I believe an offer would come. It increases the strength of their conference across the board. More positives than negatives in adding UConn, plus they get exit fee rev when UConn inevitably leaves and they can then add another bball only school.

I guess I just embarrassed myself more...

 

[Carl Spackler]

Why? I have not heard 1 reason why putting a schedule together would be impossible. Not one.

I'm going to go ahead and assume naivety here, rather than the alternatives, which arent polite.

Independance, in division 1-A football is the subject here. To maintain independant status is not impossible, I agree. But it is completely unrealistic for UCONN.

The regular season scheduling is difficult, building a balanced schedule from september to late november of home and road games, with good competition level, giving you a chance to win games. High degree of difficulty to get a decent schedule. BYU, Notre Dame, Army and Navy, and for now I think Idaho and New Mexico or something are the ONLY independants. You can look at their schedules to get an idea of what it would like to be associated with them.

It was difficult in the past two decades to regular season schedule as an independant, and is only getting more difficult with conference expansion and conference schedules going tonine conference games, leaving only 3 OOC slots open. You can't play 12 games in september. 25 years ago,though, it wasn't that difficult to be independant. Outside the Big 10, and Pac 10, and the SWC - independance, was the norm among large 1-A football programs. There were at least 30 independants in 1-A football in 1989, I think there were actually 34 or 35 if memory serves.

So what changed? THe college football POST season is what changed. Scheduling for the POST season is what makes independance an unrealistic option for UCONN. That's where the college football money is really locked up, in the bowl season. We had acccess to it with the BIg East - got the golden ticket 15 years ago. That was taken away this spring. We are now on the low end of the revenue sharing in the post season. Get it? The difficulty with independance is maintaining access to the college football post season. While regular season scheduling is a pain in the ass, it's nothing compared to getting shut out of the post season. Army and Navy have their bowl tie ins, that aren't going anywhere, and Notre Dame, the post season leech, has changed hosts from the Big East, to the ACC. BYU, has an entire religion following them, and that helps them get their ticket to post season. The others are in trouble, if you are not conference affiliated.

 

[BHusky]

UConn will never shut down the football program or go independent. Some of these ideas are just crazy.

Only a small amount of FBS football teams are profitable (UConn is one with just under $2M of profit) and nearly all FCS teams are unprofitable. Most schools look at this as an advertising expense and if they break even or lose money on football the possible exposure they get is worth while. If schools like Ohio, Buffalo and Akron can maintain a FBS football program, then we can too. Our athletic department dwarfs theirs even if we take a hit in status based on the new conference.

Look at the schools who are independent. Army, Navy, ND and BYU. Add in UConn and "one of those things it's not like the other". Every team likes to schedule a military school because they are a huge draw nationally. ND is ND and BYU has a pretty rich football tradition, their own syndicated broadcasting network they thought about leveraging for football and a religious niche. None of which we can compete. And even with that it was a big deal for them to make this move 2 years ago.

 

[Jarhead_1775]

G. If the new catholic Big East sees we are trying to fit in to their type of league, I believe an offer would come. It increases the strength of their conference across the board. More positives than negatives in adding UConn, plus they get exit fee rev when UConn inevitably leaves and they can then add another bball only school.

Great so now were "hoping" for an invite from the c()nty 7? FML.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I look forward to the first time, that Florida State, or North Carolina, or Clemson, are faced with the issue of losing a desireable, and deserved bowl appearance, to a 6-6 Notre Dame team.

This is not a change of subject, that sentence I just wrote, is 100% entirely, about what it means to be independant in 1-A football, and why it's completely unrealistic for UConn to pursue football independance.

If the structure of the post season changes dramatically, and it might, who knows - then the discussion, while still quite a long shot, could possibly have some merit. For now - this entire course of thinking needs to be "poofed". IMNSHO.

 

[Excalibur]

Notre Dame is as likely to play 6 acc games a year as UConn is to play in the Big 10. Notre Dame will probably play 4 a year, 2 of which are Pitt and BCU. The other 2 would be opponents of Notre Dame's choice, on a best efforts basis, and in November when it is hardest for ND schedule opponents.

The football program is more likely to be shutdown by joining the A12 than it would be by going independent. Shutting football down is on the table whether we want it to be or not. UConn needs to be in a situation where a) the school is as attractive to other leagues as possible, and b) the damage to the other programs from shutting down the football program is minimized.

Question: Do you believe that the C7 (1) will take us now and (2) would refuse to take us in 2-3 years?

 

[ZooCougar]

LOL - it's an awful date why exactly? We open up the year against a solid team, on national television. AT HOME. What is wrong with you people? The return game is in November. Why is that a big deal? Because it will hurt a conference coming along at some point? Ridiculous. In case you weren't aware, we are currently IN a conference and this conference will schedule around our game at BYU.

You obviously don't know much about college football.

 

[Adios]

Charlotte is leaving the A-10 for the C-USA. OH NOES!!! Seriously, some of you need to get a grip of reality. If the emos here were leading the school, we'd be headed for the NEC.

 

[ZooCougar]

Agreed, Nelson. Most people on this board are in denial. The America 12 is unsustainable for many different reasons. If UConn has the misfortune of being affiliated with this cesspool for more than 3 years, one of three things absolutley will have to occur. A) the football program will have to go independent B) the football program will have to shut down and basketball programs can realign C) UConn can die an ugly death
Repeat, the America 12 is unsustainable long term for an elite and/or profitable athletic program in ANY sport.

If America 12 is unsustainable, then independence is a total death sentence.

Here is the decision tree regarding independence. 1. Are we Notre Dame?, If no check and see if we are a Service Academy. If that answer is also no, then don't go independent. It's really that simple.

If you guys think our new bowl affiliations will suck, get ready for no bowl affiliations.

No bowl out there is going to sign us up in alliance, we would have to create our own like Boise did with the Humanitarian Bowl, AND THEY WERE IN A CONFERENCE.

 

[zls44]

ND is not going to schedule UConn in football while an associate member of the ACC.

Ever.

That ship has permanently sailed.

 

[noeynox]

The exit fee money is probably the best thing to happen to our athletics Since the national championship, and some want to walk away from that for the honor of playing bball with the c7.

 

[ZooCougar]

The exit fee money is probably the best thing to happen to our athletics Since the national championship, and some want to walk away from that for the honor of playing bball with the c7.

A conference that we aren't even welcome in.

nuke this thread please. The premise is ridiculous. It's not even fun in an absurd way like the SEC threads were last week.

 

[Jarhead_1775]

The bottom line is that going with the C7 would lock us in terminally to mid major status. GOR is a guarantee if we would even be thought of to prevent us from leaving, which we would totally bail on them for anything else. Staying in A12 gives us the not even probability, but eventuality that things are going to continue to change and I do believe we will be better off in the long run. Your proposal isn't even a short run gain! While we sit tight, we are collecting 20 something million for being patient in a league that is no worse than the c7. Will I miss playing Georgetown? Sure. Marquette and Nova? Maybe. The rest of it? Not so much.

 

[HuskyHawk]

We cannot go independent. The reasons given by others are clear and compelling. The league not to be named the A12 is mediocre, but not atrocious in all respects. Had we been given the opportunity to play football, perhaps with Cinci, in either the league we are in now or the MWC, while taking Hoops and everything else to the soon to be Big East, that would be preferable. I assume it was not an option.

Now can we please resume reality? Namely: (1) this is our conference, let's at least try to dominate it in every way we can, and in every sport; (2) we fans need to stick with the team(s) and support them regardless of conference affiliation; and (3) let's get the hell out of this confernce as soon as possible.

 

[noeynox]

A conference that we aren't even welcome in.

nuke this thread please. The premise is ridiculous. It's not even fun in an absurd way like the SEC threads were last week.

Here is the thing, I like Nelson, but he was one of the most outspoken anti Big East splitting proponents there was. Now that the c7 has left us, he proposes we beg them for inclusion even though their comments when leaving clearly indicate were not welcome. The only conclusion I can come to is that he REALLY likes those games against c7 opposition.

 

[ZooCougar]

We cannot go independent. The reasons given by others are clear and compelling. The league not to be named the A12 is mediocre, but not atrocious in all respects. Had we been given the opportunity to play football, perhaps with Cinci, in either the league we are in now or the MWC, while taking Hoops and everything else to the soon to be Big East, that would be preferable. I assume it was not an option.

Now can we please resume reality? Namely: (1) this is our conference, let's at least try to dominate it in every way we can, and in every sport; (2) we fans need to stick with the team(s) and support them regardless of conference affiliation; and (3) let's get the hell out of this confernce as soon as possible.

There are only two people who appear to be out of touch with reality. The rest of us are on the same (correct) wavelength.

 

[The Funster]

FWIW, nelson doesn't make a case in the OP as much as he gives us a bunch of opinions.