#9 Arizona St vs #8 Southern California - 3/03/21 | The Boneyard

#9 Arizona St vs #8 Southern California - 3/03/21

Who will win this game?


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nwhoopfan

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Hard to call. ASU recently lost to the 11th and 12th place teams in the conference, but then bounced back to beat the runner ups. USC has given every appearance that they've flat out quit at the end of the season. 3 straight blowout losses. Does USC show some pride and actually show up to play? Does the ASU that can't shoot straight and can't beat the bottom feeders make an appearance, or the team that couldn't miss in their last game?
 
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Honestly, a hard one to call, but I'd go with the better coach in this one with CTT. Trakh has some nice recruits coming in, but has anyone really been impressed with his second go round at USC?
 

DefenseBB

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Honestly, a hard one to call, but I'd go with the better coach in this one with CTT. Trakh has some nice recruits coming in, but has anyone really been impressed with his second go round at USC?
Everything is relative as he's doing a better job than his predecessor and given the lack of commitment by USC towards WCBB, I say yes, this second go round is better. Pili was/is hurt for most of the season and the team is competitive almost every game. I don't mind watching them now vs. past years.

That said, this will be an ugly game as ASU (along with UCF) are masters of the ugly, physical, poor shooting type games that everyone should rail against. They restrict movement, bump, hit, hold so much, the refs give up trying to be effective.
 
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Honestly, a hard one to call, but I'd go with the better coach in this one with CTT. Trakh has some nice recruits coming in, but has anyone really been impressed with his second go round at USC?
The team's split the series. This should be an excellent matchup. I guess your prediction rests on whether you view strong defense (ugly!?!) as predictive or sporadic offense. ASU has won four of the last five including the triple overtime last season to give CTT her 500th career victory.

The Devils played filthy, strong, dominating irritating, effective (ugly???) defense against Pac12 player of the Year McDonald and the kitties in their last game.

If the Devils play that level of defense again and freshman Maggie Besselink has double-digit boards I think the Devils squeak out victory.

If the Trojans Rogers gets hot and has a big game the Devils are in trouble.

Track is a solid coach he may even be a better coach than Barnes who was thoroughly out coached by CTT in the kitties lost to the Devils.

I will acknowledge that both Track and Barnes are amazing recruiters. Having just finished the book Indmissible about the varsity blues scandal I would guess that perhaps the Trojans in the past have been flexible in admissions as it appears the kitties are as well.

ASU is no paragon of integrity in the academic area either. I recall back in the 1970s Frank Kush football era the Devil's had a running back fairly fast Freddy Williams who maintained a 0.0 GPA through three semesters. As a junior fairly fast Freddy led the Sun Devils to a 12-0 season with a victory over Nebraska and a number two rating with over 1400 rushing yards. I'm certain that neither Coach Frank Kush or anyone in the ASU hierarchy was concerned about fairly fast Freddy's academics.
 
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Everything is relative as he's doing a better job than his predecessor and given the lack of commitment by USC towards WCBB, I say yes, this second go round is better. Pili was/is hurt for most of the season and the team is competitive almost every game. I don't mind watching them now vs. past years.

That said, this will be an ugly game as ASU (along with UCF) are masters of the ugly, physical, poor shooting type games that everyone should rail against. They restrict movement, bump, hit, hold so much, the refs give up trying to be effective.
I'm guessing you would see parallels between ASU's philosophy and Marquette's approach against Connecticut.

Many coaches including Geno wish to control the pace of the game. Connecticut has historically been dominant because of their facility both offensively and defensively.

Few programs including ASU are able to recruit the type of player who can dominate both sides of the court. CTT had taken a very successful track in focusing effort on pace and defense.

I'm not really certain about an advocacy of completely eliminating one form of pace from the women's game. Slow deliberate pace, strong defense ,DePaul style defense with throw it up offense or the Connecticut approach to excel at both ends seem to me to be all three interesting approaches and potentially successful

That's said my view I'm sure it's colored by my support of the ASU Lady Devils. Over 20 years I've watched the team perform defense in an outstanding manner. Physical yes ugly no. Intense yes ugly no. CTT consistently plays her entire roster in an effort to allow for this physical and defensive style of play. I've grown to appreciate the type of defensive effort that the Devils are capable of a la their last game against the kitties.
 

nwhoopfan

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Track is a solid coach he may even be a better coach than Barnes who was thoroughly out coached by CTT in the kitties lost to the Devils.
Your bias is showing. :rolleyes: Come on, no way. Just look at what they've done in their current positions. Barnes has quickly built UA from a trash heap into a conference contender. Trakh has taken a mediocre program and continued to get mediocre results.
 
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Your bias is showing. :rolleyes: Come on, no way. Just look at what they've done in their current positions. Barnes has quickly built UA from a trash heap into a conference contender. Trakh has taken a mediocre program and continued to get mediocre results.
As an ASU fan I clearly have a view of the kitties that shall we say is tilted.

I think my post said Barnes is a tremendous recruiter and Trask is no slouch in recruiting.

In terms of coaching both X's and O's and motivation CTT schooled Barnes the other night.

No one would argue that the kitties have more talent. Barnes was completely unprepared for the 1 3 1 zone CTT through at the kitties.. Her inability to in game adjust along with the tremendous intensity of the Devils really reflects on coaching. The final sequence in OT is also instructive.

Given Barnes recruiting abilities and her strong tie to kiddieland she's going to be the coach there for as long as they can afford to pay her. However recruiting notwithstanding she hasn't demonstrated yet that she's hey coach in the category of Tara, CTT, Graves or Scotty R.

That's said recognition is headed Barnes's way. Clearly recruiting is an important part of the overall running of a major college program.

 
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nwhoopfan

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As an ASU fan I clearly have a view of the kitties that shall we say is tilted.

I think my post said Barnes is a tremendous recruiter and Trask is no slouch in recruiting.

In terms of coaching both X's and O's and motivation CTT schooled Barnes the other night.

No one would argue that the kitties have more talent. Barnes was completely unprepared for the 1 3 1 zone CTT through at the kitties.. Her inability to in game adjust along with the tremendous intensity of the Devils really reflects on coaching. The final sequence in OT is also instructive.

Given Barnes recruiting abilities and her strong tie to kiddieland she's going to be the coach there for as long as they can afford to pay her. However recruiting notwithstanding she hasn't demonstrated yet that she's hey coach in the category of Tara, CTT, Graves or Scotty R.
You were comparing Barnes and Trakh, now you've switched it to Barnes and CTT. What are you aiming at?

Trakh's x's and o's don't jump out at me. He seems to be failing miserably in the motivation department w/ his team's recent performance.

You know that before Sunday, Barnes had won 4 out of 5 games she coached against CTT, right?

And CTT just managed to lose to teams coached by Jody Wynn and Charmin Smith in the last several weeks. That is EXTREMELY dubious. Washington and Cal won a combined 4 conference games and 2 of them were against ASU. :rolleyes:
 
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You were comparing Barnes and Trakh, now you've switched it to Barnes and CTT. What are you aiming at?

Trakh's x's and o's don't jump out at me. He seems to be failing miserably in the motivation department w/ his team's recent performance.

You know that before Sunday, Barnes had won 4 out of 5 games she coached against CTT, right?

And CTT just managed to lose to teams coached by Jody Wynn and Charmin Smith in the last several weeks. That is EXTREMELY dubious. Washington and Cal won a combined 4 conference games and 2 of them were against ASU. :rolleyes:
"Track is a solid coach he may even be a better coach than Barnes who was thoroughly out coached by CTT in the kitties lost to the Devils.

I will acknowledge that both Track and Barnes are amazing recruiters. Having just finished the book Indmissible about the varsity blues scandal I would guess that perhaps the Trojans in the past have been flexible in admissions as it appears the kitties are as well."

My original post made the point clearly that CTT outcoached Barnes in the last game played.

To extend the thesis of that original post CTT has a demonstrated track record, 500 victories, consistently beats higher rated teams with more talent. Witness the meeting two nights ago against the kitties.

In that game Barnes did not have her team prepared and as I pointed out had an inability to in game adjust to the 131 zone CT through at her.

In that post I went on to praise Barnes as a tremendous recruiter. I compared her recruiting ability to Tracks with his 447 career wins. Barnes with 177 wins is making a nice start. If she can avoid blunders that would blemish her record like the game two nights against Sun Devils when CTT revealed her shortcomings as a coach she will certainly have a nice career.

You accurately point out that this has been a transition season for the Sun Devils. Having graduated five seniors three of whom are playing professionally the Devils had no returning starters and Taya Hanson was the only returner with any significant experience.

Against the kitties the Devils started three freshmen a red shirt sophomore and Hansen. The announcers in that game pointed out ASU had lost 68% of their offense to graduation.

So this season has been up and down for the Sun Devils as one would expect from a team that starts three freshmen and has seven freshmen on their roster. After six consecutive 20+ seasons CTT has acknowledged that this is a season of teaching and bringing these freshmen into the Sun Devil culture.

There have been extraordinarily painful losses this year. I don't regard them as unexpected and I don't attribute them to coaching. I wonder how kittie fans are analyzing the rivalry game loss to the Sun Devils?
 
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I'm listening to the pregame show. CTT's first comment is that this team has been extremely inconsistent.

She attributes that to lack of consistent preparation. She made no excuses however about the number of freshmen on her squad or the impact of covid on practice time. She simply said that they haven't been prepared.

Paige is a rare freshman. There are times when she is without a doubt the best player on the court. ASU doesn't have freshmen of that caliber on the squad. So these ups and downs while extremely frustrating and impactful to the record are to be expected.

CTT recognizes the difference between the regular season and tournament time. She's acknowledged that the Trojans are far healthier now than during the last meeting between the two teams and she has no doubt how well prepared and motivated they're going to be.

She also highlighted the importance of the Devils keeping Rodgers under a semblance of control. In her career Rogers has averaged near 30 points a game against ASU's ugly defense
 
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Eh, it's pointless. Your hatred for Arizona blinds you.
I do have the common view toward the instate rival the kitties.

I would argue that a disinterested third party looking at the last contest between the Sun Devils and the kitties would conclude that Barnes was out coached and left with a loss in spite of greater talent.

Pity the kitty.
 
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Rogers opens the game with a three. Trojans follow with a layup. CTT calls a timeout as the Devils trail 5-0 with a minute 10 off the clock in the first quarter.
 

nwhoopfan

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I do have the common view toward the instate rival the kitties.

I would argue that a disinterested third party looking at the last contest between the Sun Devils and the kitties would conclude that Barnes was out coached and left with a loss in spite of greater talent.

Pity the kitty.
It was ONE game. Barnes is 4-2 in the last 3 years against CTT. So...clearly I can conclude Barnes is a better coach?

And CTT just lost to the 2 worst teams in the conference. Not a good look.
 
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It was ONE game. Barnes is 4-2 in the last 3 years against CTT. So...clearly I can conclude Barnes is a better coach?

And CTT just lost to the 2 worst teams in the conference. Not a good look.
Of course you could conclude Barnes is a better coach.

I would think you and I would both agree Barnes is much better recruiter than CTT recruiting a broader type of student athlete.

As to comparative coaching while you might find Barnes a better coach and clearly I know CTT is a better coach I would suspect many on the BY would be divided on the question.
 
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9-0 Trojans. ASU is off to another horrible first quarter start.

It could be worse but Pili has attempted 2 threes.

Edit Rogers with 7 points, Devils 1 of 9 from the field and trail 13-2.
 
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nwhoopfan

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Of course you could conclude Barnes is a better coach.

I would think you and I would both agree Barnes is much better recruiter than CTT recruiting a broader type of student athlete.

As to comparative coaching while you might find Barnes a better coach and clearly I know CTT is a better coach I would suspect many on the BY would be divided on the question.
CTT has had a great career. Barnes has barely gotten started. I'm not in any seriousness gonna say Barnes is a better coach. 500+ career wins vs. less than 100, there's just no point in even trying to compare. I would think you'd give Barnes some credit for turning around a program that Butts ran completely into the ground.

I'm not gonna budge on Trakh though. Mediocre...at best.



Although ASU has dug themselves in a hole to start today and USC is actually competing, unlike their previous several games.
 
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CTT has had a great career. Barnes has barely gotten started. I'm not in any seriousness gonna say Barnes is a better coach. 500+ career wins vs. less than 100, there's just no point in even trying to compare. I would think you'd give Barnes some credit for turning around a program that Butts ran completely into the ground.

I'm not gonna budge on Trakh though. Mediocre...at best.



Although ASU has dug themselves in a hole to start today and USC is actually competing, unlike their previous several games.
Rogers LOVES to play against the Devils. The bottom of the hoop looks like the Grand Canyon for her when she plays ASU. 3 for 3 from the field, 7 points and 3 boards

USC 18 - Devils 7 at the end of 1.

ASU may lead the nation in single digit offensive quarters.
 

nwhoopfan

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I did say this was hard to predict. USC had zero momentum and ASU was coming off a big win, so it figures the Trojans are crushing the Devils today.
 
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1614810590304.png

Everyone trying to predict the Pac-12 lately.
 

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