OT: 70 Thanksgivings ago

[Bama fan]

U.S. Marine 1st Division, surrounded by nearly 300,000 North Korean and Chinese troops, began to battle their way out of Chosin. After a hard fought and nearly miraculous rescue, the main force withdrew after suffering many casualties.

 

[FanFromMaine]

PBS did a wonderful but hard to watch episode on American Experience about the Chosin Reservoir battle. Heart rending...

 

[Bama fan]

PBS did a wonderful but hard to watch episode on American Experience about the Chosin Reservoir battle. Heart rending...

George Will has a short piece on it in today's WaPo.

 

[Ozimoto]

Triumph from disaster.

 

[oldude]

U.S. Marine 1st Division, surrounded by nearly 300,000 North Korean and Chinese troops, began to battle their way out of Chosin. After a hard fought and nearly miraculous rescue, the main force withdrew after suffering many casualties.

Marines always bring out their fallen comrades. Nowhere was that heroic commitment more clearly demonstrated than the “Frozen Chosin.” Also worth noting that while the Marines were catching hell on one side of the reservoir, the Army was catching hell on the other side of the reservoir.

 

[Ozimoto]

Indeed they were.

 

[oldude]

One of the unfortunate things about the many US casualties at Chosin, is that the battle could have been avoided. After MacArthur’s brilliant landing at Inchon, which effectively outflanked the North Korean army, and would have quickly ended the war, MacArthur ignored intelligence warnings to steer clear of the Chinese border with North Korea.

As a result, the Chinese poured across the border catching US forces by surprise at Chosin, extending the war for more than a year, with thousands of additional casualties. MacArthur’s decision to ignore intelligence ultimately got him removed by President Truman. General Mathew Ridgeway was then tasked with the painstaking process of fighting his way out of a hole, which the US did, ultimately ending at the 38th parallel, where the two Koreas remain divided to this day.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The most horrendous tactical mess our Army and Marines had to endure because of a lack of intelligence up the line. Sickening really.

 

[winlots]

Interesting, painful, and timely that this very good thread appears today.

Just yesterday I learned of the natural death of a Marine friend of mine
who fought with the Fifth Division in the brutal battle at Iwo Jima taking Mount Suribachi. Who will ever forget the photo of our flag being raised on that day?

 

[choochoo]

Just so you boneyarders know my father was a corporal in the 1st of the first Marines and was in the first wave invasion of Guadalcanal. spent almost a year on the canal and then when Japan surrendered was sent to China to repatriate the japs who had invaded China in 1938 as part of the surrender agreement. He was 16 years old when he left Norte Dame and joined the marines after they bombed Pearl Harbor. Lied about his age and was a foward radio man for the 1st company of the 1st marines for 3 and a half years. 2 purple hearts and his captain received the medal of honor even though my father was thousands of yards ahead of him calling in coordinates for the foward artillery barrage so they could advance. Have some great pictures of him on the great wall of china.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

One of the unfortunate things about the many US casualties at Chosin, is that the battle could have been avoided. After MacArthur’s brilliant landing at Inchon, which effectively outflanked the North Korean army, and would have quickly ended the war, MacArthur ignored intelligence warnings to steer clear of the Chinese border with North Korea.

As a result, the Chinese poured across the border catching US forces by surprise at Chosin, extending the war for more than a year, with thousands of additional casualties. MacArthur’s decision to ignore intelligence ultimately got him removed by President Truman. General Mathew Ridgeway was then tasked with the painstaking process of fighting his way out of a hole, which the US did, ultimately ending at the 38th parallel, where the two Koreas remain divided to this day.

My fundamental question regarding the approach towards the Chinese is, "What did the State Department have to say about the Chinese to the General?" Army intelligence is one thing, but the State Department is another issue shouting loudly into the General's ear. As to the removal of MacArthur, I believe it was insuborndination in a direct conversation with Truman.... The official story is usually NOT the whole story.

 

[oldude]

My fundamental question regarding the approach towards the Chinese is, "What did the State Department have to say about the Chinese to the General?" Army intelligence is one thing, but the State Department is another issue shouting loudly into the General's ear. As to the removal of MacArthur, I believe it was insuborndination in a direct conversation with Truman.... The official story is usually NOT the whole story.

Yes, MacArthur was insubordinate to his commanding officer, in this case the President, but it’s hard to believe that Truman could have removed MacArthur after the well publicized success at Inchon, had MacArthur not followed it up with the disaster at Chosin.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Interesting, painful, and timely that this very good thread appears today.

Just yesterday I learned of the natural death of a Marine friend of mine
who fought with the Fifth Division in the brutal battle at Iwo Jima taking Mount Suribachi. Who will ever forget the photo of our flag being raised on that day?

I used to help pack bales of hay at a Marine veteran's farm who was at both Iwo Jima and Okinawa and a mountain of a man: 6' 6" and 315 pounds. He passed about 19 years ago - Earl Tiedt. He would move bales of hay like they were loaves of bread: take two of them from the back of the rack and flip them onto the elevator with one hand - both with the right and left hands equally accurate. On one load, he got to the point of lifting the bale in his left hand up to aim it into the elevator, when the board of the hay rack gave way and he fell towards the elevator. He kept control of the bale and used it to keep him from getting cut up by the sharp paddles of the fast moving elevator, but the elevator began to "eat" the bale and bring his hand closer to the elevator.
With the elevator on, I jumped onto the side of the elevator and slid rapidly down one edge while loosely touching the opposite side with a gloved hand the 45 feet on a 37 degree downward incline in time to lift him to his feet and away from the elevator. Adrenaline and wrestling training paid off for me that day when I was sixteen and about 165 pounds. Four yeasrs later, Earl agreed to tell me about his experiences in the Marines while "Island hopping" in the Pacific for an English paper in college. He had never talked with anyone about it before, and as I was going into the Nuclear Powered Navy and the hay baling incident in previous years, he felt comfortable with sharing. Less than 12% of his company were able to walk off of Iwo Jima - he always felt truly blessed, and the rest of his life showed it. His wife Darlyne was there during the interview, and she said that she had never heard the stories before.
Having seen what he had seen as a 20 year-old, it was amazing that he was such a funny man and positive influence on all of those around him for the entire time I knew him. I will always treasure my memories of Earl, and Darlyne was an amazing cook and baker. One of Earl's favorite stories (whether true or not - I prefer to think it was true) was about how he was out plowing until late at night and Darlyne had baked his favorite cake and he could see the German Chocolate frosting glistening in the moonlight coming through the kitchen window. He was having a hard time finding a knife in the dark, so he turned on the lights to find the knife to cut the cake. Once he found the best knife, he turned around to find that the cake was covered in house flies. Undetered, he truned the lights back off, cut the cake and ate a huge piece of German Chocolate cake. Darlyne denies that flies would ever be on her cakes, because she always covers them with glass cake covers, and keeps the flies out of the house, but the story fits his personality and his love for his wife and her cooking.

 

[msf22b]

I'm in the (slo) process of writing a book about a wondrous Baltimore organist with the talent to be the next Bernstein...could do it all...but whose success in New York was like a firework; flamed up, sputtered down...His name is Tom Dunn.

In 1942, at the tender age of 16, he became substitute organist of the Episcopal Pro Cathedral when the resident, organist and choirmaster was drafted.

And here's the point of that long and boring intro..
.
Ensign (soon to be Lt JG) R. Donald McDormann (the organist) had a fascinating naval career....4 or 5 convoy escort gigs across he Atlantic as anti-submarine officer of the USS destroyer escort Blessman, participation in the landings at D-day and then re-fit as a fast troop carrier and a voyage through the Panama canal to take part in the Iwo Jima campaign.
Not many ships, nor crew can make that claim.

 

[winlots]

To The CDR RET and to msf22b: great stories and about great men; not at all boring to this reader. Thank you!

 

[winlots]

BAMA FAN: thank you for that rendition of The Cost of Freedom Mighty.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

I'm in the (slo) process of writing a book about a wondrous Baltimore organist with the talent to be the next Bernstein...could do it all...but whose success in New York was like a firework; flamed up, sputtered down...His name is Tom Dunn.

In 1942, at the tender age of 16, he became substitute organist of the Episcopal Pro Cathedral when the resident, organist and choirmaster was drafted.

And here's the point of that long and boring intro..
.
Ensign (soon to be Lt JG) R. Donald McDormann (the organist) had a fascinating naval career....4 or 5 convoy escort gigs across he Atlantic as anti-submarine officer of the USS destroyer escort Blessman, participation in the landings at D-day and then re-fit as a fast troop carrier and a voyage through the Panama canal to take part in the Iwo Jima campaign.
Not many ships, nor crew can make that claim.

Sounds like a book worth reading!!!

 

[90BSEE]

Does anyone know Winlots? I am trying to get in touch but he hasn't posted here for over 2 years.