#6 Iowa - #8Maryland

[uconnfan68]

Iowa looked pretty good while winning at home. Clark had a monster game. They looked impressive with their passing. Much crisper than we’ve been doing lately.

 

[cancontent]

Agree. They flipped a switch after their OT win against Michigan State in my opinion.

On the other hand, Maryland looked very out of it, especially their transition defence. Was really surprised by that.

 

[Bjbod]

Caitlin is really playing well lately, and I'm not just referring to her scoring. Efficiency is up and it's clear she is trying hard to get everyone involved. Last three games have been vs Ohio St, Nebraska and Maryland; combined record of those 3 teams was 49-12 at game time. Check out her lines (pts-reb-asst):
OSU 28-10-15
Neb 33-12-9
Md 42-7-8
She's not perfect: 21 turnovers in those 3 games. With her aggressiveness TO's to be expected, but this should be tightened up.
Iowa's warts are apparent, but definitely an entertaining group. Last few weeks of the Big 10 will be good stuff.

 

[YoDore]

Caitlin is really playing well lately, and I'm not just referring to her scoring. Efficiency is up and it's clear she is trying hard to get everyone involved. Last three games have been vs Ohio St, Nebraska and Maryland; combined record of those 3 teams was 49-12 at game time. Check out her lines (pts-reb-asst):
OSU 28-10-15
Neb 33-12-9
Md 42-7-8
She's not perfect: 21 turnovers in those 3 games. With her aggressiveness TO's to be expected, but this should be tightened up.
Iowa's warts are apparent, but definitely an entertaining group. Last few weeks of the Big 10 will be good stuff.

I just switched from Sling back to a more expensive Hulu Live just to get Big 10 Network for the final month plus the conference tourney. Iowa, Ohio State and Indiana have become three of my favorite teams to watch. I'm an SEC guy since my Vandy team is part of the conference (sort of), but I confess I much prefer the style of play in the Big 10. SEC basketball often resembles a wrestling match. The most exciting game of the conference season was last night's Georgia-LSU game, and they shot 70 free throws. There could have been 70 more. Just ugly basketball, and you get that often in the SEC.

 

[JellyBean]

Iowa looked pretty good while winning at home. Clark had a monster game. They looked impressive with their passing. Much crisper than we’ve been doing lately.

Yup. Iowa looked very good out there against Maryland. They just looked comfortable on both ends of the floor.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I'll have to watch that game. Just looking at the box score doesn't appear that defense was a priority for either team! MD baffles me. So much talent has come and gone there and perished on the vine.

 

[JellyBean]

I'll have to watch that game. Just looking at the box score doesn't appear that defense was a priority for either team! MD baffles me. So much talent has come and gone there and perished on the vine.

It was a fun game to watch.

 

[LoTrader]

I'm an unbiased PAC-12 fan telling you that Caitlin Clark is the best WCBB player (not even close). Never seen anyone control a game as well as does Caitlin Clark. What doesn't she do well? And she keeps improving which is remarkable.

 

[visitingcock]

I'm an unbiased PAC-12 fan telling you that Caitlin Clark is the best WCBB player (not even close). Never seen anyone control a game as well as does Caitlin Clark. What doesn't she do well? And she keeps improving which is remarkable.

she is great in half the game: Offense.

She's an outstanding PG and her assist totals bear it out. Really, really excellent!

She's a very good shooter, but her FG percentage is not top 100 and her 3 pt percentage is not top 50.

What doesn't she do well? Play defense. Could she? Maybe so, but that's not her role. And that's not what her team is about. I understand.

If she and Paige go in the same draft, I'm taking Paige (after consultation with my medical experts)

 

[The deacon]

she is great in half the game: Offense.

She's an outstanding PG and her assist totals bear it out. Really, really excellent!

She's a very good shooter, but her FG percentage is not top 100 and her 3 pt percentage is not top 50.

What doesn't she do well? Play defense. Could she? Maybe so, but that's not her role. And that's not what her team is about. I understand.

If she and Paige go in the same draft, I'm taking Paige (after consultation with my medical experts)

That'd be a tough call between Caitlin and Paige, even if Paige were going to be healthy going forward. I pray that Paige's body can stand up over the years.

However, visitingcock, I'm surprised to be addressing this to you, 'cause I wouldn't think you'd fall for the usual digs at Clark. Caitlin is playing a lot of defense, and most of it aggressive and effective. Defending Clark for the fallacies out there about her defense is likely a lost cause on the Boneyard. I trust scouts and WNBA officials will know better. The built-in criticisms that held merit two years ago just aren't true now.

In the meantime, will you be at the XL Center on Sunday?

 

[visitingcock]

That'd be a tough call between Caitlin and Paige, even if Paige were going to be healthy going forward. I pray that Paige's body can stand up over the years.

However, visitingcock, I'm surprised to be addressing this to you, 'cause I wouldn't think you'd fall for the usual digs at Clark. Caitlin is playing a lot of defense, and most of it aggressive and effective. Defending Clark for the fallacies out there about her defense is likely a lost cause on the Boneyard. I trust scouts and WNBA officials will know better. The built-in criticisms that held merit two years ago just aren't true now.

In the meantime, will you be at the XL Center on Sunday?

Falacies?

How does that "aggressive and effective defense" show itself. Steals are the usual measure for a PG. She has almost none. In fact its shocking how few. Blocks? I wouldn't expect many and there aren't. Does she help her teams defense in ways that don't show up in stats? Well, she plays on a team with a defense that Masssey rates at 133 so I doubt it. Well, that's better than Oklahoma anyway.

A note on her assists which I concede are superlative. Her assist to turnover ratio is only 65th so, that tampers with that assist measurement. Still, it ain't a bad a/t ratio.

Caitlin is very, very good. Excellent indeed, and worthy of the hype she receives for her scoring and assist numbers. A leading candidate for NPOTY? Yes.

Is she "the best WCBB player (not even close)" as asserted in the post I replied to? You gotta' admit that's arguable.

Nah, wont be there Sunday. But I hope to see everybody in late May in Greenville.

 

[The deacon]

Falacies?

How does that "aggressive and effective defense" show itself. Steals are the usual measure for a PG. She has almost none. In fact its shocking how few. Blocks? I wouldn't expect many and there aren't. Does she help her teams defense in ways that don't show up in stats? Well, she plays on a team with a defense that Masssey rates at 133 so I doubt it. Well, that's better than Oklahoma anyway.

A note on her assists which I concede are superlative. Her assist to turnover ratio is only 65th so, that tampers with that assist measurement. Still, it ain't a bad a/t ratio.

Caitlin is very, very good. Excellent indeed, and worthy of the hype she receives for her scoring and assist numbers. A leading candidate for NPOTY? Yes.

Is she "the best WCBB player (not even close)" as asserted in the post I replied to? You gotta' admit that's arguable.

Nah, wont be there Sunday. But I hope to see everybody in late May in Greenville.

We're clearly of two minds on this, and I understand you'd be inclined to adversely critique a player who might unseat Aliyah as the NPOY.

A few points:
1) I didn't write that '(not even close)' reference, although I do agree Caitlin should have a healthy edge in fair voters' minds.
2) I wonder where you got the stats you mentioned... Caitlin is averaging 1.6 steals per game. 'Almost none?' 'Shockingly few?' Well, and I understand she plays more minutes than each of South Carolina's numerous fine guards, Caitlin gets more steals per game than any of the Gamecocks. She's also averaging .6 blocks per game... that's not a lot, but not bad for a guard and more than any SC guard except defensive whiz Brea Beal.
3) You conveniently ignore the reality that Caitlin also collects 7.9 rebounds each game, mostly at the defensive end of the court. Is that not part of playing defense?
4) Massey's ratings? Massey doesn't measure a team's defensive ability, rather how many points opponents score. It's certainly understandable, I'd think you'd agree, that a free-wheeling offensive team like Iowa would give up more points than many others. Whatever you might think of the Hawkeyes, they won the Big Ten regular season and tournament title last year and are right there again this season. Not everyone can have a stacked and deep front line and a plethora of talented guards focused on defense. In fact, I believe your team is the only one.

Visitingcock, I'm a big fan of Aliyah as a player and as a personable young women. Yet if you've been watching Caitlin Clark play, such as the game vs. Maryland last night, it's hard to imagine that those who select NPOY could vote for anyone other than Caitlin.

Anyway, I hope you get to see Sunday's game. I'm supposed to be going, although our current weather had better moderate or I'll be staying home. As for Greenville in March, I won't be there, but I hope the Huskies will be, joining your Gamecocks. Cheers!

 

[uconnfan68]

I'm an unbiased PAC-12 fan telling you that Caitlin Clark is the best WCBB player (not even close). Never seen anyone control a game as well as does Caitlin Clark. What doesn't she do well? And she keeps improving which is remarkable.

Boston begs to differ. Clark may have great offensive skills, but Boston has a bigger impact on games.

 

[visitingcock]

We're clearly of two minds on this, and I understand you'd be inclined to adversely critique a player who might unseat Aliyah as the

4) Massey's ratings? Massey doesn't measure a team's defensive ability, rather how many points opponents score. It's certainly understandable, I'd think agree, that a free-wheeling offensive team like Iowa would give up more points than many others. Whatever you might think of the Hawkeyes, they won the Big Ten regular season and tournament title last year and are right there again this season. Not everyone can have a stacked and deep front line and a plethora of talented guards focused on defense. In fact, I believe your team is the only one.

Visitingcock, I'm a big fan of Aliyah as a player and as a personable young women. Yet if you've been watching Caitlin Clark play, such as the game vs. Maryland last night, it's hard to imagine that those who select NPOY could vote for anyone other than Caitlin.

Anyway, I hope you get to see Sunday's game. I'm supposed to be going, although our current weather had better moderate or I'll be staying home. As for Greenville in March, I won't be there, but I hope the Huskies will be, joining your Gamecocks. Cheers!

Incorrect. Massey does not rank only on how many points opponents score alone. Example: UConn is rated top 5 defensively by Massey. However, their stats show that they only rank 58th in opponents’ points scored. Clearly, Massey must weigh that against something like SOS or opponents’ offensive rank. I don’t know. There are a few posters around here who can clear that up @Plebe?

A note on Clark/Iowa. If you look at the “TV eyeballs” thread on the UConn board, you’ll see that Iowa (Clark) is drawing a large TV viewership. Iowa vs mid level Nebraska is extremely impressive which bodes well for the Big10. It’s also good for wbb. That eyeball factor may push her over the top for NPOY over Angel Reese who doesn’t get nearly as many eyeballs (and many eyeballs don’t like her extracurriculars when they watch her)

 

[The deacon]

Incorrect. Massey does not rank only on how many points opponents score alone. Example: UConn is rated top 5 defensively by Massey. However, their stats show that they only rank 58th in opponents’ points scored. Clearly, Massey must weigh that against something like SOS or opponents’ offensive rank. I don’t know. There are a few posters around here who can clear that up @Plebe?

A note on Clark/Iowa. If you look at the “TV eyeballs” thread on the UConn board, you’ll see that Iowa (Clark) is drawing a large TV viewership. Iowa vs mid level Nebraska is extremely impressive which bodes well for the Big10. It’s also good for wbb. That eyeball factor may push her over the top for NPOY over Angel Reese who doesn’t get nearly as many eyeballs (and many eyeballs don’t like her extracurriculars when they watch her)

Thanks for sort of clarifying Massey stats. I'll hope Plebe hops in here some time to further explain.

No mention of Caitlin's rebound or steals stats? No matter, hopefully the voters are aware she's anything but a volume shooter, which seems to still be her rep with some here.

I'm not surprised about the viewership angle, visitingcock. The Hawkeyes are a fun watch.

 

[visitingcock]

Thanks for sort of clarifying Massey stats. I'll hope Plebe hops in here some time to further explain.

No mention of Caitlin's rebound or steals stats? No matter, hopefully the voters are aware she's anything but a volume shooter, which seems to still be her rep with some here.

I'm not surprised about the viewership angle, visitingcock. The Hawkeyes are a fun watch.

200 players, of whom the vast majority are guards, have more than 1.6 steals per game . So yeah, I consider that shockingly low. Rebounds? I don’t know how to compare her with other point guards. Lots of guards have more, but those probably aren’t PGs. Our guards aren’t encouraged to rebound. Their job is to stay out of the lane to let the big dogs eat.

But, we both know there are lies, damned lies and stats. As I have said repeatedly, she deserves her position in the POY race - but I think her team needs an Elite 8 appearance for her to win

 

[LoTrader]

she is great in half the game: Offense.

She's an outstanding PG and her assist totals bear it out. Really, really excellent!

She's a very good shooter, but her FG percentage is not top 100 and her 3 pt percentage is not top 50.

What doesn't she do well? Play defense. Could she? Maybe so, but that's not her role. And that's not what her team is about. I understand.

If she and Paige go in the same draft, I'm taking Paige (after consultation with my medical experts)

Clark is an all-around WCBB Player, not just an offensive player. Her improvement from season to season has been remarkable. Who controls a game better than Clark? Answer: Nobody in the game today. She is leaps and bounds better than any player in WCBB.

 

[DefenseBB]

If I can add more fuel to the fire but if I were a WNBA GM, particularly of Indiana, I would be passing the word to Steph Curry and Stanford that Cameron should turn pro this year and be the #1 player picked as she has more upside given her body type, shooting and blocks. Plus she runs the floor better. Stats are close but give me Brink, every time.

 

[DefenseBB]

Clark is an all-around WCBB Player, not just an offensive player. Her improvement from season to season has been remarkable. Who controls a game better than Clark? Answer: Nobody in the game today. She is leaps and bounds better than any player in WCBB.

Um, she's good but all the stats say she is 2nd to Angel Reese and the two of them are way ahead of everyone else. I think if you take Caitlin off Iowa, they would be hard pressed to even make the NCAAT, if you take Reese off of LSU, they too would be outside the top 25 although with the SEC being less than stellar this year, they would still be a top half team. Take Boston off of SC and that team is still a top 10 team and in 1st place in the SEC.

Boston should not be in consideration for the POY and while I think she is a shoo-in for the 10 team All-American team, she needs to up her offense if she wants to make the 5 member team. She's had a great career but her senior year is not up to what we were expecting despite the hollow observations offered by the SC denizens.

 

[LoTrader]

I would agree that Angel Reese and Clark are top 2. Angel doesn't have the handles, the court vision, or the outside game that Clark possesses. Angel is a monster on the boards, and post defender. I could see an WNBA team taking Reese if that is the position it needed most. I just think Clark makes an entire team better than does Angel Reese. I also think Clark's mental basketball acuity is superior. I watched both Angel and Clark play OSU this year, and truthfully, they both made OSU look like a high school team. If they both go in next year's 2024 draft it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

And I also agree that Cameron Brink is the best BIG in WCBB.

 

[Dillon77]

If I can add more fuel to the fire but if I were a WNBA GM, particularly of Indiana, I would be passing the word to Steph Curry and Stanford that Cameron should turn pro this year and be the #1 player picked as she has more upside given her body type, shooting and blocks. Plus she runs the floor better. Stats are close but give me Brink, every time.
View attachment 83801

That's a pretty interesting take, @DefenseBB . I'd like to see Brink cut down not only on her proclivity to foul, but turn the ball over (Note the turnover discrepancy). However, she is obviously one hell of a shot-blocker and an avid weak-side defender (as is Boston, to be fair). I'll have this in mind while watching the first half of the UConn-S. Carolina game to see how Boston fares against the Edwards/Juhasz combination. I'll take a break at half to see what ball is used in South Bend at the start of the ND vs. Duke game .

BTW, Clark's overall performance against Maryland was one of the best I've seen by a guard in a long, long time. She simply couldn't miss in the 2nd quarter and some of her upcourt passes to Martin and Monica C. were of the "huh" variety.

 

[Bone Dog]

Overall, an embarrassing loss for MD. They barely beat us with Nika Azzi Dorka injured, which was pretty weak on their part. But that was early season when they were still figuring out who they were. To get torched this bad by Clark and co. in February is a bit different, a whole new level of weak play.

 

[Dillon77]

If I can add more fuel to the fire but if I were a WNBA GM, particularly of Indiana, I would be passing the word to Steph Curry and Stanford that Cameron should turn pro this year and be the #1 player picked as she has more upside given her body type, shooting and blocks. Plus she runs the floor better. Stats are close but give me Brink, every time.
View attachment 83801

That's a pretty interesting take, @DefenseBB . I'd like to see Brink cut down not only on her proclivity to foul, but turn the ball over (Note the turnover discrepancy). However, she is obviously one hell of a shot-blocker and an avid weak-side defender (as is Boston, to be fair). I'll have this in mind while watching the first half of the UConn-S. Carolina game to see how Boston fares against the Edwards/Juhasz combination. I'll take a break at half to see what ball is used in South Bend at the start of the ND vs. Duke game .

Ok, I watched the first half live and the second half "on tape) (I should've skipped the debacle I watched in between )

Boston has always been one of those players that rises to the occasion. Maybe the occasions aren't as frequent as they used to be when she was younger, which is why many have wondered about some "pedestrian" (for her) days at the court. Still, that feeling of "when it matters...." hung over me, which is what I referencing in blue above.
Boston showed up in Hartford. Yes, she had zounds of help from Cardoso (watch out!) and Edwards was great for UConn, but Boston had her hands on the driver's wheel.

In the meantime, Brink had four fouls and kinda disappeared in the loss to UW. Now, Stanford tried a three-pronged approach to that game and brought Demetre off the bench, but that's a game you want Brink to take over. Maybe some more experience is still needed?

In any case, if Boston plays in the NCAA like she did yesterday, she'll be drafted by Indianpolis.

 

[Jmsdawg]

she is great in half the game: Offense.

She's an outstanding PG and her assist totals bear it out. Really, really excellent!

She's a very good shooter, but her FG percentage is not top 100 and her 3 pt percentage is not top 50.

What doesn't she do well? Play defense. Could she? Maybe so, but that's not her role. And that's not what her team is about. I understand.

If she and Paige go in the same draft, I'm taking Paige (after consultation with my medical experts)

I think I would chose Boston but Paige would be my second choice.

 

[DefenseBB]

Ok, I watched the first half live and the second half "on tape) (I should've skipped the debacle I watched in between )

Boston has always been one of those players that rises to the occasion. Maybe the occasions aren't as frequent as they used to be when she was younger, which is why many have wondered about some "pedestrian" (for her) days at the court. Still, that feeling of "when it matters...." hung over me, which is what I referencing in blue above.
Boston showed up in Hartford. Yes, she had zounds of help from Cardoso (watch out!) and Edwards was great for UConn, but Boston had her hands on the driver's wheel.

In the meantime, Brink had four fouls and kinda disappeared in the loss to UW. Now, Stanford tried a three-pronged approach to that game and brought Demetre off the bench, but that's a game you want Brink to take over. Maybe some more experience is still needed?

In any case, if Boston plays in the NCAA like she did yesterday, she'll be drafted by Indianpolis.

Did you see all misses that Boston had while shooting yesterday? In the WNBA she will not be the biggest and most proficient “big” so she will need to shoot 10-18’ shots and she’s not good. Though to her credit she’s a great free throw shooter.
Too many of the WNBA GMs are fixated on size and not shooting skills with the most glaring example of Charlie Colloet being selected #1. I am not AT ALL saying Boston is like Collier as Aaliyah is miles better but I am saying her shooting is suspect.
As more and more teams are using a spread offense, the “5” position needs to be able to shoot.