5th Year Players Are Here To Stay (Maybe)

[superjohn]

Fully agree. My gut doesnt like this, but I haven't figured out why yet specifically.

You don't like it because it's incredibly stupid.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Different websites are tracking slightly different numbers and academic years but they all mostly show about a 4-year graduation rate in the low 40% range and a 6-year graduation rate in the low 60% range.

Let's not forget the massive dropoff in high school population going in to college the next few years. It's no longer in colleges' benefits to push kids through in four years to keep getting a new batch of freshmen. The new model is any student of any age who can pay tuition.

 

[JMick]

We already drop the standards enough for athletes academically. Our national championship team had multiple kids who just didn't show up to class for MONTHS and still somehow passed classes. Some of these players shouldn't have passed high school. Moreso football thank basketball from what I've heard. But still.

I agree but it may allow some players who don't have a real shot at the pros to get more difficult degrees that theyre interested in

 

[JMick]

Different websites are tracking slightly different numbers and academic years but they all mostly show about a 4-year graduation rate in the low 40% range and a 6-year graduation rate in the low 60% range.

Let's not forget the massive dropoff in high school population going in to college the next few years. It's no longer in colleges' benefits to push kids through in four years to keep getting a new batch of freshmen. The new model is any student of any age who can pay tuition.

What are the rates for schools that have D1 athletics though? I imagine there's a lot of small regional campuses that deflate those numbers. UConn Storrs, for example, is over 70%

 

[husky429]

What are the rates for schools that have D1 athletics though? I imagine there's a lot of small regional campuses that deflate those numbers. UConn Storrs, for example, is over 70%

UConn loves to use the regional campuses to make themselves look better when it serves them (to be fair, any college would). I'd be shocked if they weren't doing this with graduation rates too.

Diversity numbers? Include the regionals.
SAT scores? Only Storrs.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

I wonder what affect this would have on prep schools. Can't speak for all sports, but I know in lacrosse, sometimes college coaches will tell a committed high school player to go PG at X school for a year before getting to campus. Will those kids just go to a college instead?

 

[ctchamps]

I agree but it may allow some players who don't have a real shot at the pros to get more difficult degrees that theyre interested in

This. @husky429 has a valid point. I'm not arguing against it.

 

[JMick]

UConn loves to use the regional campuses to make themselves look better when it serves them (to be fair, any college would). I'd be shocked if they weren't doing this with graduation rates too.

Diversity numbers? Include the regionals.
SAT scores? Only Storrs.

They don't publish the 4 year graduation rates by campus, but the six year graduation rate is basically double at Storrs compared to the branches, so if their 4 year graduation rate is all campuses then the regionals are dragging them down big time

Edit: ok not double but 40% higher

 

[husky429]

I agree but it may allow some players who don't have a real shot at the pros to get more difficult degrees that theyre interested in

I hear what you're saying, but those players always had the option of a redshirt year if they want to stay 5 years on campus. SOr they could do it like the rest of us and pay for a master's

How about the kids who won't get scholarships now because of this? Presumably, 20% less kids will get scholarships, no? There's only so many spots open. Did they not deserve to get a college degree because some kid wanted to be a double-engineering major?

At the end of the day, this isn't about helping kids. It's the NCAA wanting more money, as it always is.

 

[JMick]

I hear what you're saying, but those players always had the option of a redshirt year if they want to stay 5 years on campus. SOr they could do it like the rest of us and pay for a master's

How about the kids who won't get scholarships now because of this? Presumably, 20% less kids will get scholarships, no? There's only so many spots open. Did they not deserve to get a college degree because some kid wanted to be a double-engineering major?

At the end of the day, this isn't about helping kids. It's the NCAA wanting more money, as it always is.

I don't think it's a good idea. I just think there are some specific players it will work out for. Overall I think it's a negative. I'm fine with the 5th year for post grad because its an incentive to graduate

 

[superjohn]

I hate this. I think it was a disaster with the Covid years. They could be a little more generous on medical redshirt years. Kids can already redshirt and do redshirt (especially in football). So you can already get 5 years of college for 4 years of playing time. Having 5 years to play hurts the kids looking for scholarships from HS. It hurts the more marginal athletes who may not find a scholarship.

There's already so many kids being held back at least a year in middle school and high school so they can play D1 ball nowadays. I agree the Covid years sucked and it should be an extremely rare thing that 24-25 year olds are competing against 18 and 19 year olds. This will make it the norm.

 

[superjohn]

I actually had the opposite gut reaction. I'm not sure if I'll have the same opinion after I sit on it and think about it more.

But my initial thought, at least in terms of UConn, was this could really benefit the non basketball and football athletes. Those kids are already going to be playing pro somewhere, but if the other athletes are in school 5 years that gets them a good start on a masters degree which could really benefit them long term

They can already apply and pay for a masters degree like everyone else.

 

[JMick]

There's already so many kids being held back at least a year in middle school and high school so they can play D1 ball nowadays. I agree the Covid years sucked and it should be an extremely rare thing that 24-25 year olds are competing against 18 and 19 year olds. This will make it the norm.

It's already been happening for decades at BYU. I always thought it was kind of an unfair competitive advantage. Making it more prevalent is not a good thing. The difference between a 17-18 year old and a 25 year old is insane

 

[superjohn]

It's already been happening for decades at BYU. I always thought it was kind of an unfair competitive advantage. Making it more prevalent is not a good thing. The difference between a 17-18 year old and a 25 year old is insane

Agreed but they were the exception because of the Mormon mission.

Now we'll have grown men and women playing against what are essentially still kids. It's going to screw the kids who are on a normal timeline from getting scholarships.

 

[UC95-Duke00]

There's already so many kids being held back at least a year in middle school and high school so they can play D1 ball nowadays. I agree the Covid years sucked and it should be an extremely rare thing that 24-25 year olds are competing against 18 and 19 year olds. This will make it the norm.

Cooper Flagg skipped a grade to graduate high school early and enroll at Duke University at age 17. When he's messed up, notably at the end of games this season, my folks love to whine about "he's young" ... I call BS on that too! ... eligible is eligible in my book

 

[JMick]

Agreed but they were the exception because of the Mormon mission.

Now we'll have grown men and women playing against what are essentially still kids. It's going to screw the kids who are on a normal timeline from getting scholarships.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Vandy kid. If JUCO doesn't count as eligibility then it means you could have a ton of kids parked at JUCO and play 7 years of college ball

 

[Tex-Lager93]

Go get Cam Spencer a waiver, right now.

 

[CTBasketball]

Let the kids go pro right after high school, then get rid of NIL and bring back the old transfer rules.

And if a coach leaves a team, he adheres to the “sit one year out” rule.

 

[JMick]

Let the kids go pro right after high school, then get rid of NIL and bring back the old transfer rules.

And if a coach leaves a team, he adheres to the “sit one year out” rule.

You'll never be able to have a coach sit out. Ever. At best you would have to make it a rule that they have to complete their contract or sit out, but then all the coaches would negotiate one year deals and it would be worse than it is now.

 

[Jbirdp5]

This might be why they are upping the amount of scholarships each team can carry. With basketball going up to 15, you still can average the same number of recruits per class. Not saying I like it but hopefully it won’t kill high schoolers getting as many scholarships

 

[Chin Diesel]

Bring back JV in college.

For players age 20 and under they can play JV or varsity based on their skill level and physical ability. Anyone 20 and over is on varsity.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Don’t like it. We already had some football players on a college roster for 9 years. This is getting ridiculous.

That's 5+4, not 5 to play 4.

I'd have to read the rationale before weighing in more seriously, but I know that universities track percentage overall entering freshmen who graduate in 4 years, so it is clearly an overall thing.

During my long ago undergraduate days, there were a few 3-2 programs that made it possible for students to emerge with a Master's degree in engineering or an MBA. I was part of group who took a semester or more off "to mature" and referred to ourselves as having been in "The 3-2 BA program." Not all paths go in a straight line, and some of this may be more applicable for student-athletes not involved in non-revenue generating sports.

 

[dennismenace]

Maybe there are a lot of athletes with Engineering majors. Don't jump to conclusions!

Student wise this can be a very good thing. There are many fields now that require 5 years and more or an MBA for example (CPA see below). I think physical therapy is now a six year program and used to be 4 years.

CPA Requirements By State - Exam & License Requirements By State

Most states require at least a bachelor’s degree to be eligible to become a CPA. Check your state’s specific CPA exam requirements, including the minimum hours required here.

www.efficientlearning.com

So why should a student athlete be denied finishing their education and maintaining their sports performance level at the same time?

They are getting paid now anyway so overall we should see a better product on the floor.
The universities are making money on this so it isn't hurting them. It has also created a barrier in some professions by making it harder to get into them with the extra year or more. There is nothing in the CPA exam that isn't learned at the four year level of education so why is it necessary?

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

You don't like it because it's incredibly stupid.

I'll bet that this doesn't turn out to be his reason, though I might reconsider if you offer a definition of "incredibly stupid" that doesn't itself sound like further stupid hyperbole.

I suppose it could happen, so I await your clarification. Or @August_West 's confirmation that you mailed it, in which case I'll offer my apologies for jumping to conclusions.

 

[Hunt for 7]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Vandy kid. If JUCO doesn't count as eligibility then it means you could have a ton of kids parked at JUCO and play 7 years of college ball

If that is allowed then CBB should just be called the NBA minor leagues except these minor league players make a heck of a lot more money than most of the Major League Baseball minor league players.