OT: 2018 NBA Draft

[Lefty2one]

The concerns with Doncic are all about athleticism. Finishing at the rim. Defensively. Creating off the bounce. All question marks. It's not easy to get by with creativity.

His athleticism doesn't concern me as much in today's NBA. The floor is so spaced and the game is so soft compared to the olden days. Guys get all the way to the rim now and pass out for a three with regularity. He's athletic enough that his skills will take care of the rest. Klay isn't that athletic. Ginobili never was. Even Harden, while he's strong, isn't the most explosive guy in the league. The wingspan concern is legit though.

 

[HooperScooper]

Doesn't have Garnett's wingspan.

Bamba much more likely to be in that mold. He's been improving his shooting stroke.

Kevin Garnett thinks so also.

Garnett said he sees a lot of himself in Bamba, noting that the first things he notices in a player are their “desire” and “passion.”

“It wasn’t by coincidence I reached out to him,” Garnett said.

Once they moved the court, the pair worked on developing shots on different parts of the floor. Bamba said Garnett gave him “some counters, some A moves, some B moves, some C moves, and different things to get the defender off balance.” Garnett also shared a “cheat code” to help him with his free throws.

“Keep that on the wraps,” Garnett said. “If that cheat code come out, me and the crew going to come find you.”

2018 NBA Draft: What Mo Bamba said about working out with Kevin Garnett | Boston.com

 

[Matrim55]

Kevin Garnett thinks so also.

Garnett said he sees a lot of himself in Bamba, noting that the first things he notices in a player are their “desire” and “passion.”

“It wasn’t by coincidence I reached out to him,” Garnett said.

Once they moved the court, the pair worked on developing shots on different parts of the floor. Bamba said Garnett gave him “some counters, some A moves, some B moves, some C moves, and different things to get the defender off balance.” Garnett also shared a “cheat code” to help him with his free throws.

“Keep that on the wraps,” Garnett said. “If that cheat code come out, me and the crew going to come find you.”

2018 NBA Draft: What Mo Bamba said about working out with Kevin Garnett | Boston.com

KG also said that Thon Maker was a future MVP.

 

[auror]

The concerns with Doncic are all about athleticism. Finishing at the rim. Defensively. Creating off the bounce. All question marks. It's not easy to get by with creativity.

Plus, I can't seem to find anything about his wingspan. Which is obviously a major ? for every prospect (if you played an NBA Draft night drinking game around wingspan....people would die).

P3 measured Doncic in 2017 at 6-foot-8, 228 pounds, with a standing reach of 8-foot-9.5.
Not exceptional, but not necessarily debilitating. Basically inbetween the average measurements of a SF and PF in the NBA.

 

[Lefty2one]

WFAN discussing a potential Knicks/Memphis trade for #4...

#4, Parsons (arguably the worst deal in the NBA)

#9, Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee


I would do it if Doncic slides. I'd tell Memphis to kick rocks if he's gone.

 

[auror]

WFAN discussing a potential Knicks/Memphis trade for #4...

#4, Parsons (arguably the worst deal in the NBA)

#9, Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee


I would do it if Doncic slides. I'd tell Memphis to kick rocks if he's gone.

That's pretty interesting. Basically equates to:

Salary relief + #9 (Bridges?) + #8 (Ntilikina)
for
Doncic or Bagley or Jaren Jackson.

I wouldn't do it if I were Memphis. But I guess they want the 5th seed quite badly.

 

[Lefty2one]

The top six seems like it's set.

1. Ayton
2. Bagley
3. Doncic
4. Jackson Jr
5. Bamba
6. Young

I'd assume Chicago will roll the dice on Porter Jr and then CLE has a very interesting decision; that's where the fun starts. Carter? Sexton? SGA? Someone else?

I do not want Carter on the board when the Knicks pick at 9. I like him as a prospect but I don't want another big to pair with Porzingis. We can find that in FA down the line. Use the pick on Mikal Bridges or Knox.

 

[UconnU]

Is there ANY chance that TL gets drafted?

 

[auror]

Reading the Instagram Leaves: Why Luka Doncic’s New Favorite Emoji Means He’s Going to Sacramento

Woj be damned, still not sure Kings are taking Bagley.

 

[champs99and04]

I'm surprised so many people are down on Ayton. To me, he's the best prospect since Embiid. I value toolset ahead of production when it comes to young players. Ayton was a liability at times defensively in his one years at Arizona, but he has a 7'5 wingspan and plus mobility for a guy his size. Technique can be learned over time. His block rate is underwhelming but not terrible - with improved defensive awareness, that rate should go up, especially if he's baptized by fire like I'd expect (don't expect good defensive numbers year one). He's not going to be Gobert or Embiid but he's also not plodding like Towns.

Bamba would be a clear cut #2 on my board. I don't care about him getting his own shot. If it comes, great, if it doesn't, you still have an all-NBA talent. And for all the talk about how limited he is offensively, he scored 14 points per game in conference play, shot 68% from the line, and at least demonstrated a feint penchant for hitting three point shots. The 7'10 wingspan is a big deal. If I'm Cleveland I'm doing anything within my power to trade up for him.

I'm skeptical on Doncic. What's his one elite skill? Playmaking? Size? Versatility? Anything that couldn't have been said about Evan Turner coming out of Ohio State? His prototype is the last one you want to build a team around - not quite good enough offensively to make you great on that end but bad enough to sink you defensively. I could be completely wrong about him - excellent passing skills, ability to score at all three levels, can face you up or post you up, "makes teammates better," etc. There's just no blueprint that sticks out in my mind. Most #1 scoring options are either taller, better athletes, or elite shooters. He could get there on the third one, but if I were betting I'd go the other way.

Beyond that, I'm not too attuned. I like but don't love Bagley and Carter. Jackson from Michigan State gets a lot of hype for someone who scored a combined eight points in two NCAA Tournament games. Could see him as another Noah Vonleh where the talent is popping but he just kind of gets lost in the fray. Staying put at #10 to drafty Mikal Bridges would make too much sense for Philly which is probably why they won't do it. I agree with the poster that mentioned Shake Milton as a good late round value. I'm not a Trae Young fan. He's too small. Cool college player who might catch on as a Trey Burke/Fred VanVleet type player but that's about it.

 

[the Q]

The top six seems like it's set.

1. Ayton
2. Bagley
3. Doncic
4. Jackson Jr
5. Bamba
6. Young

I'd assume Chicago will roll the dice on Porter Jr and then CLE has a very interesting decision; that's where the fun starts. Carter? Sexton? SGA? Someone else?

I do not want Carter on the board when the Knicks pick at 9. I like him as a prospect but I don't want another big to pair with Porzingis. We can find that in FA down the line. Use the pick on Mikal Bridges or Knox.

Yeah Chicago seems to not like Carter.

I think he might be underrated playing with a couple ball hogs at the school that shall not be named.

 

[intlzncster]

I would trade the pick if I was picking Top 5. I don't think anyone stands out.

I am not a fan of Bagley. I think his effort is inconsistent, and that does not typically improve in the NBA. His upside is Jabari Parker, a no-D big that stands outside and jacks 3's but puts up decent offensive numbers to almost compensate for all the points he is giving up on the other end.

Ayton and Porter have bust written all over them. I know it is one game, but Arizona getting humiliated by Buffalo in the NCAA tournament bugs me. If Ayton is really the best player in the draft, he should not have been blown out in that game.

I hate to see injury issues with a college kid. Not everyone has the body to take the wear and tear of an NBA season, and Porter may be one of those guys that just doesn't have the durability to be a top level professional athlete.

No idea on Doncic. He could be anything from the next Darko Milicic to a taller version of Ricky Rubio, which would be pretty awesome.

Bamba - I would hate to burn a Top 10 pick on a one dimensional defender.

Trae Young - I like him better than a lot of other people like him. He is short and poor defensively, but he can put the ball in the hole and I think he can be an 18 and 8 guy at the NBA level, which warrants a late lottery pick.

Sexton is a 2 in a 1's body.

Mikhael Bridges - game is perfect for the modern NBA. Low risk pick that may not have the upside of some of the other options.

Lonnie Walker - did I miss something on this guy? Why is he even a candidate for the lottery?

I would not be surprised to see someone from the second half of the first round win ROY. I don't see the big gap between the Top 8 and the rest of the first round that everyone else sees. I think there are 5-6 guys out there that could be the next Donovan Mitchell. Kevin Knox, Zhaire Smith, Melvin Frazier all stick out, but it could be anyone. I certainly didn't see Donovan Mitchell coming.

Dark horse that deserves to be in the First round: Moritz Wagner - I love his game at the next level. I think he will be playing close to 20 mpg next season for someone.

Strange, by most accounts, this is a monster draft.

 

[auror]

I'm surprised so many people are down on Ayton. To me, he's the best prospect since Embiid. I value toolset ahead of production when it comes to young players. Ayton was a liability at times defensively in his one years at Arizona, but he has a 7'5 wingspan and plus mobility for a guy his size. Technique can be learned over time. His block rate is underwhelming but not terrible - with improved defensive awareness, that rate should go up, especially if he's baptized by fire like I'd expect (don't expect good defensive numbers year one). He's not going to be Gobert or Embiid but he's also not plodding like Towns.

Arguments against Ayton mostly have nothing to do with Ayton himself, but where the NBA game is and the positional value.

On offense, post ups, even from the most dominant bigs in the league, are just worse expected value plays than an average player shooting a 3. You'd rather have your backup wing who shoots 34% from 3 shoot than an Embiid psotup (.97 PPP on post-ups). Bigs that stretch are great... but then why play a center at all? Why not just play a PF or big wing (Horford, et al) at the 5?

On defense, most centers don't allow you to run switching schemes. Also, the prevalence of stretch bigs means they're likely pulling your center away from the rim anyways. So, again, why play a center at all? In this draft in particular, JJJ has the best ability to move and guard in space.

This trend has created a glut of cheap centers that can all give you the same things that have a use: rebounding, rim running, rim protection, and stretching the floor.

Why draft Ayton #1 overall when you can get Baynes for $4 million?

 

[intlzncster]

Is there ANY chance that TL gets drafted?

Nope.

 

[auror]

I'm skeptical on Doncic. What's his one elite skill? Playmaking? Size? Versatility? Anything that couldn't have been said about Evan Turner coming out of Ohio State? His prototype is the last one you want to build a team around - not quite good enough offensively to make you great on that end but bad enough to sink you defensively. I could be completely wrong about him - excellent passing skills, ability to score at all three levels, can face you up or post you up, "makes teammates better," etc. There's just no blueprint that sticks out in my mind. Most #1 scoring options are either taller, better athletes, or elite shooters. He could get there on the third one, but if I were betting I'd go the other way.

Doncic is the best PnR player entering the league in years. He just has that combo of size, vision, intelligence, and instincts to get the defender off balance.

His shooting has regressed a little in the last year, but he's taking a high number off the dribble against good defense, which has hurt his %'s.

His numbers might seem pedestrian, but translating his stats from Euroleague to NBA at his age is literally breaking statistical models. Kevin Pelton at ESPN has him as the best statistical prospect since The Brow.

Evan Turner never developed his jumper and Doncic has 2-3 inches on him. If Doncic stays around 33% from 3, he might not make an all-star team. If he gets it up to 40%, I guarantee he will.

 

[intlzncster]

Arguments against Ayton mostly have nothing to do with Ayton himself, but where the NBA game is and the positional value.

On offense, post ups, even from the most dominant bigs in the league, are just worse expected value plays than an average player shooting a 3. You'd rather have your backup wing who shoots 34% from 3 shoot than an Embiid psotup (.97 PPP on post-ups). Bigs that stretch are great... but then why play a center at all? Why not just play a PF or big wing (Horford, et al) at the 5?

On defense, most centers don't allow you to run switching schemes. Also, the prevalence of stretch bigs means they're likely pulling your center away from the rim anyways. So, again, why play a center at all? In this draft in particular, JJJ has the best ability to move and guard in space.

This trend has created a glut of cheap centers that can all give you the same things that have a use: rebounding, rim running, rim protection, and stretching the floor.

Why draft Ayton #1 overall when you can get Baynes for $4 million?

With all that in mind, how would Shaq fair in today's game? He's like the opposite of what you are talking about, but I don't see any player in the league who could stop him.

 

[intlzncster]

Doncic is the best PnR player entering the league in years. He just has that combo of size, vision, intelligence, and instincts to get the defender off balance.

His shooting has regressed a little in the last year, but he's taking a high number off the dribble against good defense, which has hurt his %'s.

His numbers might seem pedestrian, but translating his stats from Euroleague to NBA at his age is literally breaking statistical models. Kevin Pelton at ESPN has him as the best statistical prospect since The Brow.

Evan Turner never developed his jumper. If Doncic stays around 33%, he might not make an all-star team. If he gets it up to 40%, I guarantee he will.

I know very little about the kid, but the brief descriptions I have read brings Magic Johnson to mind. How does he compare there?

 

[Lefty2one]

Doncic is a much better passer and PnR guy than Turner ever was IMO.

 

[Lefty2one]

Nope.

I would agree, but then again Majok got drafted.

 

[the Q]

With all that in mind, how would Shaq fair in today's game? He's like the opposite of what you are talking about, but I don't see any player in the league who could stop him.

The people who stopped him during his carer.

The refs (not properly enforcing the rules) and the commish (not making the clown car idiots properly enforce the rules).

 

[Lefty2one]

Arguments against Ayton mostly have nothing to do with Ayton himself, but where the NBA game is and the positional value.

On offense, post ups, even from the most dominant bigs in the league, are just worse expected value plays than an average player shooting a 3. You'd rather have your backup wing who shoots 34% from 3 shoot than an Embiid psotup (.97 PPP on post-ups). Bigs that stretch are great... but then why play a center at all? Why not just play a PF or big wing (Horford, et al) at the 5?

On defense, most centers don't allow you to run switching schemes. Also, the prevalence of stretch bigs means they're likely pulling your center away from the rim anyways. So, again, why play a center at all? In this draft in particular, JJJ has the best ability to move and guard in space.

This trend has created a glut of cheap centers that can all give you the same things that have a use: rebounding, rim running, rim protection, and stretching the floor.

Why draft Ayton #1 overall when you can get Baynes for $4 million?

Pretty much. I'm not risking a Top 5 on a big man today unless he's at minimum a versatile, solid defender.

Comparing Ayton to Embiid is okay, though Embiid still has a lot to prove IMO and he wasn't nearly as lost defensively in college as Ayton was. Embiid's defense is one of the bigger reasons they got smoked by Boston: he was massacred defensively, to the point where they had to hide him on Morris. He's just too big and slow. The best teams go small in the playoffs. If your big can't defend the pick and roll and/or switch then he's going to either sit on the bench or get or get you killed.

Even a guy like KAT, who was viewed as a very good defender coming out of UK, hasn't translated and is now one of the worst defenders in the NBA. I will be stunned if Ayton is ever more than a below-average defender.

I also think Ayton's offensive potential is overrated. His post game is mechanical and his jumper needs more work than Bamba, Jackson Jr, and Bagley. I can't get it out of my head that Arizona was obliterated by Buffalo and just how poor of a conference the Pac 12 is these days.

I'd take Doncic first overall and Bamba second. I still can't believe Doncic is going third in this draft given the way the game is played today and what he's accomplished.

 

[intlzncster]

I would agree, but then again Majok got drafted.

It really helps to be 19 years old, 6'11 230 with a 7'4 wingspan and a high motor.

 

[Lefty2one]

It really helps to be 19 years old, 6'11 230 with a 7'4 wingspan and a high motor.

Majok was a week shy of turning 24 when he was drafted.

 

[auror]

Who planned these stairs and these Moms in tight dresses and heels.

 

[superjohn]

It's fairly disturbing how all these young guys dress like chicks now.