2 outs, bases juiced, 3-1 count

[Dann]

We let them off the hook. We had them. We had a bad 1st where they got cluth 2 out hitting and the rest of the game after that was ours. We slowly inning by inning chipped away. Some long at bats, some walks, a lot of pausing and gamesmanship. We took momentum and the whole game you could feel it. It was our game to win even tho we were down most of it. Jon swung at ball 4 but what's worse there is you take that pitch anyway if its down the pipe. You have to be willing in that situation as A Below 200 hitter to get to 3-2 at any cost. That walk wins us the game. Another pitch even if the kid threw a strike instead of ball 4 and then we see but we took it to the edge. A lazy swing at ball 4 popping it up in foul ground is something that will not allow me to sleep tonight.

The road now becomes almost impossible. I want to be Rahman #dmw and all but I have to be realistic. It was all or nothing 2night. Oklahoma has a killer ace who is in the waiting for a if needed game on Monday. I don't think either uconn or vt can beat ok 2 in a row. Now with there ace just waiting for action. If we won 2night, the driver seat was so pretty I would jerk off to the thought of it 2night. I mean talk about pretty. Vt and ok fighting for life 2moro and then the winner being work out faces our 3 pitcher Sunday night. If they win that then Monday gets interesting but we really were in a good spot. And it all comes back to a basic thing. 3-1count. A situation to use your head, and we had a brain fart. Stealing bases and being aggressive is a style yes and we for sure play it. But even within that style there is a certain amount of brain power. We doubled steamed at one point, but it was a righty batter which forced the Cather to throw off bag a bit. Those are aggressive but mentally string situations from lenders. Jons bat unfortunately was a season killer IMHO.

I mean the best for him, I don't want to knock him. But it's been a very up and down year. I hope he comes back and turns into the player we all know he can be because this year has not been it for him. What these games have shown me is big Mel and Siena are the real deal. I like our catching situation also going forward. We lose a lot of pitchers this year. But most going are BP guys so I think we can handle ourselves still. I like our future.

Sucks to be against the wall this way. Congrats to max on a great uconn career.

 

[huskymedic]

We let them off the hook. We had them. We had a bad 1st where they got cluth 2 out hitting and the rest of the game after that was ours. We slowly inning by inning chipped away. Some long at bats, some walks, a lot of pausing and gamesmanship. We took momentum and the whole game you could feel it. It was our game to win even tho we were down most of it. Ryan swung at ball 4 but what's worse there is you take that pitch anyway if its down the pipe. You have to be willing in that situation as A Below 200 hitter to get to 3-2 at any cost. That walk wins us the game. Another pitch even if the kid threw a strike instead of ball 4 and then we see but we took it to the edge. A lazy swing at ball 4 popping it up in foul ground is something that will not allow me to sleep tonight.

The road now becomes almost impossible. I want to be Rahman #dmw and all but I have to be realistic. It was all or nothing 2night. Oklahoma has a killer ace who is in the waiting for a if needed game on Monday. I don't think either uconn or vt can beat ok 2 in a row. Now with there ace just waiting for action. If we won 2night, the driver seat was so pretty I would jerk off to the thought of it 2night. I mean talk about pretty. Vt and ok fighting for life 2moro and then the winner being work out faces our 3 pitcher Sunday night. If they win that then Monday gets interesting but we really were in a good spot. And it all comes back to a basic thing. 3-1count. A situation to use your head, and we had a brain fart. Stealing bases and being aggressive is a style yes and we for sure play it. But even within that style there is a certain amount of brain power. We doubled steamed at one point, but it was a righty batter which forced the Cather to throw off bag a bit. Those are aggressive but mentally string situations from lenders. Ryan's bat unfortunately was a season killer IMHO.

I mean the best for him, I don't want to knock him. But it's been a very up and down year. I hope he comes back and turns into the player we all know he can be because this year has not been it for him. What these games have shown me is big Mel and Siena are the real deal. I like our catching situation also going forward. We lose a lot of pitchers this year. But most going are BP guys so I think we can handle ourselves still. I like our future.

Sucks to be against the wall this way. Congrats to max on a great uconn career.

Who is "Ryan"??

The last batter from VT swung @ a ball 4 to end the game last night. Swings (no pun intended) both ways.

Easy to second guess in those situations.

 

[Dann]

Who is "Ryan"??

The last batter from VT swung @ a ball 4 to end the game last night. Swings (no pun intended) both ways.

Easy to second guess in those situations.

By Ryan my drunk ass means testani. I have no way of explaining that. I even laughed. I will edit it because I suck.

Now is not the type to moan I know, but after the season that ab will be looked at as the fail of the season. The fundamental and metal aspects of it in that situation.....

I know some here didn't like my suggestion in the 9th to bunt mazz in that spot. 3hitter yada yada but it was also the right thing to do. Mazz on a good team is not a meat hitter. We're a small ball team and the ball was not flying out for us any time soon. You bunt him to 2nd and take a chance with a hot bat behind mazz for a clutch game winning single and play at the plate drama. Very frustrated by penders not being aggressive there like he was most of the game but that 3-1count my god it's going to take me weeks to not talk about that. Baseball purists watching that lost hair over that swing. It hurts my brain still.

 

[huskymedic]

By Ryan my drunk ass means testani. I have no way of explaining that. I even laughed. I will edit it because I suck.

Ok then... Ryan plays for Shelton HS.

 

[Dann]

Ok then... Ryan plays for Shelton HS.

Yea thanks. Clearly I'm upset he's shu bound and confused the 2....
..oh the screws in my head lol...

 

[21Huskies]

I disagree with just about all your points.

you don't intentionally take on 3-1. its the best pitch you're going to get, if you think you have a pitch to hit, you swing. he obviously made the wrong choice and swung at a ball, but that's playing the result. if he rips it up the middle you're talking about what a 'clutch hit' it was. this isn't little league, you don't 'take' in that situation.... you can tell him to be selective, you can tell him to make him come to you, but if you are telling the kid to intentionally take on 3-1 you have no faith in the kids bat and he shouldn't be playing regardless of the situation

and you absolutely, in no circumstances, bunt in that situation. if you think 'bunting' is being aggressive, then i'm not quite sure what to tell you.

you reference 'baseball purists' i'm not quite sure what that means. but I've played the game at a high level and i'm a sabr dork. what you're saying is wrong by just about all metrics. my biggest criticism of Penders, especially back when we had great hitting, was that he bunted too much.

 

[Gurleyman]

My thought is that if you swing 3-1 there, with a guy just out of the pen struggling to find the zone and the bases full, then it better be a pitch you really like and can do something with it. One spot, one speed. If you hit into a sharp out or something, ok. Breaks of the game, But if the pitch was a ball, and you pop up in foul territory, it means you were too anxious and didn't swing at your pitch. And that's a bad spot to lose your discipline.

 

[BoatShow]

That was pretty awful gotta say.

 

[Dann]

I disagree with just about all your points.

you don't intentionally take on 3-1. its the best pitch you're going to get, if you think you have a pitch to hit, you swing. he obviously made the wrong choice and swung at a ball, but that's playing the result. if he rips it up the middle you're talking about what a 'clutch hit' it was. this isn't little league, you don't 'take' in that situation.... you can tell him to be selective, you can tell him to make him come to you, but if you are telling the kid to intentionally take on 3-1 you have no faith in the kids bat and he shouldn't be playing regardless of the situation

and you absolutely, in no circumstances, bunt in that situation. if you think 'bunting' is being aggressive, then i'm not quite sure what to tell you.

you reference 'baseball purists' i'm not quite sure what that means. but I've played the game at a high level and i'm a sabr dork. what you're saying is wrong by just about all metrics. my biggest criticism of Penders, especially back when we had great hitting, was that he bunted too much.

My thought is that if you swing 3-1 there, with a guy just out of the pen struggling to find the zone and the bases full, then it better be a pitch you really like and can do something with it. One spot, one speed. If you hit into a sharp out or something, ok. Breaks of the game, But if the pitch was a ball, and you pop up in foul territory, it means you were too anxious and didn't swing at your pitch. And that's a bad spot to lose your discipline.

That was pretty awful gotta say.

If that was me my coach would have chewed me out in the locker room. Or just pulled me. The situation was the game. The pitcher was fresh out the bullpen and the game was there for the taking. Jon was a .200 hitter and not exactly hot of late. You take that pitch. Why? Because even if he throws a strike, he has to come right back next pitch with another one. He threw a fastball on 3-1 so that's his comfort pitch, your going to get another one. By the extremely rare chance he then gets aggressive and throws a curve on 3-2 and freezes you, then you tip your cap that he took it to the edge and got Ballzy. But you let him risk that risky move and make sure he gets that curve over for a strike on top of everything else. That's taking the at bat the length and either setting yourself up to win the game or go down with every other option already up. Swinging on 3-1 doesn't give you every option. Lets go further. You take on 3-1 and he throws a strike. Now it's 3-2 and you get to start the runners. The guy on third is half way down on the pitch and the guy on 2nd is far along also. The running on the pitch forces a throw from infielders on a ground ball, it also scores a run on a wild pitch and possibly a 2nd run. There are to many reasons to take a 3-1 and not 1 good reason to swing. The only possible reason to swing is "it's a meatball down the middle get it over pitch" and that's weak argument wise because that means the pitchers is struggling which was the situation and that pitch you will get again next pitch. Time it up once and get to see it, then rip it last chance.

Now, with all that said. You don't swing 3-1 at ball 4 which is even worse. Penders should have had the fake bunt or just take on. I really want to know his thoughts on that situation. I don't think he will throw his player on the buss but I want to know if there was a missed sign or if he thought the situation brought something else in play.

Bunting with the if back and your 3 but not really 3 hitter up would have be aggressive. I wanted a bunt and run. I was looking to get that runner to 3rd aggressively on that play. Just because the bar only goes 10 ft doesn't mean bunting isn't aggressive. Ppl who are go getters in baseball understand this. Certain situations call for certain plays. Bunting is debatable in that spot with mazz. I thought it was a edgy thing to do at a no lose point in the game. Just looking for some magic. Force that bullpen pitcher to run off the mound and make a throw he hasn't made all day. Look what happened in the 9th, I'm not trying to say my side was better what if, but I personally would have liked to see something on edge there. Sitting back on your heals doesn't win you games.

 

[21Huskies]

I understand what you're saying, you typed the same thing already.

i'm just explaining that its not 'edgy', its not 'aggressive', it goes against probabilities and is the wrong play in both situations.

the 'take' is playing the result. the average hitter hits a little over .100 higher in their batting avg on a 3-1 count (roughly .330) vs a 3-2 count (roughly .190). like a previous poster said, you tell him to be extremely selective, one speed - one zone and you trust your hitter to make the decision. he obviously made the wrong choice... that's life. but to tell the kid to 'take' is absurd. this is high level division 1 baseball not Connecticut babe ruth ball, you have to trust the kid to make the right play not paralyze him and put him in a situation where his expectation to succeed declines by over 40%.

as for the bunting, there are enough studies out there about bunting that you can read up on. just realize the win probability and run probability go down with LJ bunting there... so its not 'edgy' or 'agressive' it would have just been bad baseball. there are proper times to sac bunt with certain batters in your lineup, but they are few and far between and that certainly wasn't one of them, by the numbers.

 

[Dann]

I understand what you're saying, you typed the same thing already.

i'm just explaining that its not 'edgy', its not 'aggressive', it goes against probabilities and is the wrong play in both situations.

the 'take' is playing the result. the average hitter hits a little over .100 higher in their batting avg on a 3-1 count (roughly .330) vs a 3-2 count (roughly .190). like a previous poster said, you tell him to be extremely selective, one speed - one zone and you trust your hitter to make the decision. he obviously made the wrong choice... that's life. but to tell the kid to 'take' is absurd. this is high level division 1 baseball not Connecticut babe ruth ball, you have to trust the kid to make the right play not paralyze him and put him in a situation where his expectation to succeed declines by over 40%.

as for the bunting, there are enough studies out there about bunting that you can read up on. just realize the win probability and run probability go down with LJ bunting there... so its not 'edgy' or 'agressive' it would have just been bad baseball. there are proper times to sac bunt with certain batters in your lineup, but they are few and far between and that certainly wasn't one of them, by the numbers.

I would love to know penders thoughts on this. And hey, u must be right with percentages and stuff because both of those situations came out so well for us.

I said it before but bunting in the 9th is questionable and I realize that. But the 3-1 count situation all things considered was not right.

 

[The Viking]

I didn't get a chance to see the game and I can't find a play-by-play of the game, but can someone explain EXACTLY what the situation was, inning, etc? I'm lost at what the real situation was reading the back and forths.

 

[ATLDYKA]

Personally I thought he should have been taking 3-1. He is a sub .200 hitter and is the only guy in the line up who hadn't had a hit in either game. Absolutely should have taken 3-1. As far as Mazzilli to bunt or not bunt, I was okay with the non-bunt, however what I get frustrated with him about is that in both big situations he came up in he swung at the first pitch. He is just so overly aggressive that he ends up swinging at bad pitches where if he just took one to see what the pitcher has to offer I think he would be much better off. He got terrible swings on both of his last 2 at bats.

 

[huskymedic]

I didn't get a chance to see the game and I can't find a play-by-play of the game, but can someone explain EXACTLY what the situation was, inning, etc? I'm lost at what the real situation was reading the back and forths.

Here is box score and play by play

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/m-basebl/stats/2012-2013/bsgame62.html

 

[Dann]

I didn't get a chance to see the game and I can't find a play-by-play of the game, but can someone explain EXACTLY what the situation was, inning, etc? I'm lost at what the real situation was reading the back and forths.

-We went down 3-1 after the first.
-all game we grinded our way back. Walks, hits every inning we chipped away mentally and physically.
-bot 8 we get a gift and a rally going. Jon is up with bases loaded 2 outs and a fresh pitcher who came in on a 1-0 count if I remember right. It's a tie game 3-3.
-the count gets to 3-1.

He took a bad swing at ball 4 and pooped up to the catcher. Swinging there no matter the pitch I argue was the wrong play as I wrote above. It's bad baseball.

 

[ATLDYKA]

-We went down 3-1 after the first.
-all game we grinded our way back. Walks, hits every inning we chipped away mentally and physically.
-bot 8 we get a gift and a rally going. Jon is up with bases loaded 2 outs and a fresh pitcher who came in on a 1-0 count if I remember right. It's a tie game 3-3.
-the count gets to 3-1.

He took a bad swing at ball 4 and pooped up to the catcher. Swinging there no matter the pitch I argue was the wrong play as I wrote above. It's bad baseball.

I couldn't agree with you more, but unfortunately this is how Penders has played it all year long and I know it has frustrated me. Others will say it is this aggressive style that has allowed us to make a run and get to where we are. I would disagree and say it was when we became a more selective team at the plate during the Big East tourney that we became more dangerous. We must take more pitches and be more selective with our swings.

 

[21Huskies]

Swinging there no matter the pitch I argue was the wrong play as I wrote above. It's bad baseball.

who in the world said anything about swinging on any pitch?

what are you even talking about?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

That was frustrating a hell but as I get frustrated seeing the same thing in the majors all too often, I'm willing to give the kid a little slack.

That situation calls for the batter looking for one pitch, in one location and if there is any doubt, take it, even if it is a strike. There isn't a batter who when playing against competition at his level (college kid vs college kid in this case) who won't hit the ball on the screws 85 times out of 100 if he is looking for one pitch, in one spot and gets it. Unfortunately, telling a kid (yes, he is a kid) that in this instance, his strike zone is the size of a nickle doesn't always work.

If nothing else, we demonstrated that we were as good as anyone in that regional. It was a shame that two years ago a trip tot he CWS went through South Carolina. They didn't lose a game that postseason and we played them as tough as anyone. I would love to see what that squad could have done against them if the had the postseason experience our current squad had. I saw experience (and the Gamecocks had a ton of it) as the biggest difference then.

Coach Penders is building something nice here. We need to realize that it will take quite a run of quality players through the system before we get where we want to be. We are on our way however!

 

[The Viking]

-We went down 3-1 after the first.
-all game we grinded our way back. Walks, hits every inning we chipped away mentally and physically.
-bot 8 we get a gift and a rally going. Jon is up with bases loaded 2 outs and a fresh pitcher who came in on a 1-0 count if I remember right. It's a tie game 3-3.
-the count gets to 3-1.

He took a bad swing at ball 4 and pooped up to the catcher. Swinging there no matter the pitch I argue was the wrong play as I wrote above. It's bad baseball.

Yeah, that's on Penders. And it does happen in the bigs too. Managers seem too afraid to give the take sign enough.

You could square that up and hit it as hard as you've ever hit a ball but if it's a hard grounder at a fielder or a liner at a fielder or a deep drive thats tracked down by the outfielder, it doesn't matter how well you squared it up.
Or you could pass out while in the batters box and still give your team the lead by taking the 3-1 pitch. All the pressure in the world is on the pitcher for not one, but two straight pitches. When it's 3-1 count with the bases loaded and you're potentially 3 outs from another huge upset win, you have to take...absolutely have to. It's not like Babe Ruth was up. If it's 3-2, you have to be willing to swing, but have to be in control of the strike zone as well.

Now I'm pissed off.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

If that was me my coach would have chewed me out in the locker room. Or just pulled me. The situation was the game. The pitcher was fresh out the bullpen and the game was there for the taking. Jon was a .200 hitter and not exactly hot of late. You take that pitch. Why? Because even if he throws a strike, he has to come right back next pitch with another one. He threw a fastball on 3-1 so that's his comfort pitch, your going to get another one. By the extremely rare chance he then gets aggressive and throws a curve on 3-2 and freezes you, then you tip your cap that he took it to the edge and got Ballzy. But you let him risk that risky move and make sure he gets that curve over for a strike on top of everything else. That's taking the at bat the length and either setting yourself up to win the game or go down with every other option already up. Swinging on 3-1 doesn't give you every option. Lets go further. You take on 3-1 and he throws a strike. Now it's 3-2 and you get to start the runners. The guy on third is half way down on the pitch and the guy on 2nd is far along also. The running on the pitch forces a throw from infielders on a ground ball, it also scores a run on a wild pitch and possibly a 2nd run. There are to many reasons to take a 3-1 and not 1 good reason to swing. The only possible reason to swing is "it's a meatball down the middle get it over pitch" and that's weak argument wise because that means the pitchers is struggling which was the situation and that pitch you will get again next pitch. Time it up once and get to see it, then rip it last chance.

Now, with all that said. You don't swing 3-1 at ball 4 which is even worse. Penders should have had the fake bunt or just take on. I really want to know his thoughts on that situation. I don't think he will throw his player on the buss but I want to know if there was a missed sign or if he thought the situation brought something else in play.

Bunting with the if back and your 3 but not really 3 hitter up would have be aggressive. I wanted a bunt and run. I was looking to get that runner to 3rd aggressively on that play. Just because the bar only goes 10 ft doesn't mean bunting isn't aggressive. Ppl who are go getters in baseball understand this. Certain situations call for certain plays. Bunting is debatable in that spot with mazz. I thought it was a edgy thing to do at a no lose point in the game. Just looking for some magic. Force that bullpen pitcher to run off the mound and make a throw he hasn't made all day. Look what happened in the 9th, I'm not trying to say my side was better what if, but I personally would have liked to see something on edge there. Sitting back on your heals doesn't win you games.

Couldn't agree more. Take, take, take. A .200 hitter is no more, no less effective 3-1 or 3-2 with a pitcher struggle with his control and depending on a fastball as his go-to pitch. Whatever else your hitter does . . . . don't chase pitches. What part of that is difficult to follow.