#1 vs #2

[Florida Fan]

I haven't followed ND religiously this year just due to time constraints, but playing in South Bend... I fully believe you should go into the game anticipating foul trouble at some point. It would genuinely surprise me if there wasn't foul trouble with someone at some point, with my main concerns being Gabby and Napheesa - though I wouldn't count Kia out for foul trouble either, though I'd say from what we've seen so far that if we're having to bet on foul trouble, it's likely coming from Gabby.

This isn't an advantage on talent or anything, but I think the team's fire and passion could give us an edge. Someone at the game today said in passing that they've all gotten a taste of what it feels to be NC winners and that right now, they probably want to see what it feels like to really win one on their own. (Think what Geno said about the Baylor game - how they never felt that way before because last year, it wasn't their win, it was the Big 3's.) It's way to early to be thinking about March and beyond, but these girls are also human. I think there's a lot of grit, passion, and drive that sets this team apart.

That being said... you could probably say the same for ND. No one wants to be #1 in the country and lose at home, especially when UConn's walked away with the last contests. I wouldn't doubt their fire and drive either, although I don't think we've seen their full potential on that front this year.

Almost feels like this game is going to come down to who wants it more...

I believe @Orangutan is an Irish fan from Chicago or near it. Our inputs from South Bend, at least lately tend to be a little warped.

ND is deep and we are thin. They have a mobile big who can catch and shoot, we have a big. They have three shooters who can hit from the perimeter. UCONN can shoot from behind the line. Pheesa is inside outside, Gabby the disrupter. ND likes to draw fouls, the Skylar approach I think they call it in South Bend. So, if we make no mistakes, and don't get in foul trouble, and disrupt their rhythm and don't get hurt, yeah, we can beat them. But the odds are in favor of the home team. Wild cards, Nat, Crystal, Geno.

 

[easttexastrash]

To return to a short discussion on a previous thread, I wonder if today's game changes anything in Geno's mind regarding who starts or plays a lot of minutes (beyond, obviously, game situations).

I wonder if, after today, he will consider starting Nat so Gabby can guard someone on the perimeter. If you put Kia on Allen, you might profit from cutting off the head. That leaves the issue of Arike O. Gabby could handle her quickness-wise and strength-wise, but as I think @CocoHusky suggested, you risk foul trouble on Gabby. Or should you go into the game fearing for foul trouble?

Yes, I know there will be a lot of switching, but I'd like to hear thoughts on who is the best primary defender of whom.

I don't think Nurse is quick enough to defend Allen. My money is on Gabby Williams for that assignment.

I agree that it may be time to start Butler and bring Williams off the bench. I really think Butler is going to be needed more at the end of the season than Williams so I would go ahead and put her in the starting role and build her confidence by indicating that you have confidence in her. I like her game a lot as she is much more mobile than I expected her to be.

 

[Monte]

On Wednesday there's a game we have all been waiting for; and what could be better then the two best teams in the nation, with the two best coaches and both teams coming into the game undefeated? I am interested in how BY'ers, and any wandering ND fans, evaluate the relative strengths & weaknesses of each team. IMO, here are the relative strengths of each team:

Notre Dame

1. Experience
2. Depth
3. Size
   
4. Rebounding
5. Home Court

UConn

1. Strength of Schedule
2. Defense
3. Team speed/quickness
4. Toughness
   
5. Coaching

I am sure that others may disagree and have a number of additional thoughts, particularly when it comes to individual player match-ups.

I do have one minor concern. I sincerely hope that when the polls come out this week, prior to the game, ND remains at #1 and UConn remains at #2. Hope to see the polls change after the game.

I really don't care what either team has! I will say this: IF Uconn comes out and plays with the same qualities they did in the first quarter against DePaul, the game is OVER. The team that wins this game is the one which shows the most desire, determination, and hustle. That's it!......and, I mean for the complete game, not just the 1st quarter.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Geno keeps the starting lineup the same. If its not broken, don't fix it. Saniya starts and if she's not involved in the offense from the start, he subs in Crystal earlier. Saniya is the better defensive player, but Crystal runs the offense better. Saniya probably plays major minutes against ND as they'll need her defensive pressure.

If Saniya is the better defensive player, that's a bit scary. She's improved to an extent but at no point would I consider her a good defensive player. I'm hopeful that if she isn't already better than Saniya, that soon Crystal will exceed her on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Buzzyboy]

ND is deep and we are thin. They have a mobile big who can catch and shoot, we have a big. They have three shooters who can hit from the perimeter. UCONN can shoot from behind the line. Pheesa is inside outside, Gabby the disrupter. ND likes to draw fouls, the Skylar approach I think they call it in South Bend. So, if we make no mistakes, and don't get in foul trouble, and disrupt their rhythm and don't get hurt, yeah, we can beat them. But the odds are in favor of the home team. Wild cards, Nat, Crystal, Geno.

It was kind of ironic because until you said "So, if we make no mistakes etc. etc. everything you said suggested that you were saying there was no chance for us to win. Faked me out bad!

 

[NewCorn]

Is Uconn as shaky as the Huskies' narrow victory over Florida State?

Conversely, is ND as shaky as its narrow victory over Green Bay...at home no less?

We will find out Wednesday...

But Florida State is #7, and Green Bay is maybe #30. So the Notre Dame struggle with GB is harder to explain.

 

[Huskee11]

I would be shocked if the UConn starting lineup is different. That would be taking Natalie and/or Crystal out of their respective comfort zones at the worst possible time. Then you are risking them being total non factors instead of helpful role players.

I know Geno wants his players to be uncomfortable to some extent, for example he doesn't want Lou just standing out there hoisting threes, but he also knows who can handle what. And IMHO very few players will likely play well if they are thrust into a starting role for the first time at ND.

Why change what is working, plus as someone pointed out, we could have easily lost three games if not for Natalie helping off the bench.

 

[hoophuskee]

In the McDonald's All-American game, Mabrey guarded Lou and did pretty well on her. Obviously, Lou is a different player now, but I still think Mabrey can guard her and she'll be up for the challenge mentally. I expect Jackie Young will guard her at times as well. The key for ND will not be leaving her open from 3. ND has not done a great job rotating out to cover shooters this year and UConn will make them pay, Lou most of all.

You have got to be kidding using the McD A/A game as a point of reference. Just stop it. If you think she can because of her smarts and how ND reads UCONN okay. But let's not pretend for example the McD A/A game would run curl after curl with the 6'3 Lou while the other players look for her.

The amazing thing about this game is that there are so many different matchups -- I've read many over the last few days - and my 1st reaction is "that's crazy" but then when I think about it, I say "well yeah it can be done." And you can employ some type of jnk defense or sag etc.

For example if I'm UCONN I would consider Nurse on Allen, Chong on Mabrey (or switch Chong to Allen) , Gabby on Areke, Lou on Westbeld and Collier on Turner.

I'm against starting Nat unless UCONN knows they can't defend Turner. Anyways-- why should UCONN fear any team so why make this move? Again -- it's what Dailey said a long time ago. "We want teams to react to us rather than us reacting to them." Let's see Notre Dame react to Lou ((I think your McD reference is BS (I don't mean to be mean)) and see if what you said is true. And the same with Young. If I'm a husky fan, I want to see us try to impose our will on your team. If you can't handle the curl - then high probability this opens up game for many of our shooters. And we move the ball excellent. And Lou is a fine passer even off of the curl.

And let's see how you defend Gabby. In no way am I suggesting you can't (In fact I think ND is going to win. I'm concerned with foul trouble and in a big game with you on your home floor we don't shoot quite as well while your team shoots great.). You could lay off of her or look for someone small to guard her so you can stop the driving and challenge UCONN to see if she can score in half court sets. As a Husky fan, I want to challenge you to handle her at her best position which is the pf and then she can make passes to four shooters that surround her. So even if you go bigger, let's see if you could/ or how you will stop/slow down Gabby's impact.

What I like for UConn is that our guards (Chong a bit and Danger a lot)- got schooled vs Texas - so this game maybe they can rise and not be "as lazy defensively."

 

[Orangutan]

You have got to be kidding using the McD A/A game as a point of reference. Just stop it. If you think she can because of her smarts and hwo ND reads UCONN okay. But let's not pretend for example the McD A/A game would run curl after curl with the 6'3 Lou while the other players look for her.

The post I responded to read, in relevant part, "They don't have anyone else with the size and speed to guard Lou all over the floor". I'm just saying that I've watched Mabrey guard Lou one-on-one and think she's got the size/speed/length to do it.

I'm not saying she's going to shut Lou down or anything, just that she has the physical attributes to guard her. Lou has the talent level where you can have a good defender on her, defend her well, and she can still go off for 20+ if she's on her game.

 

[hoophuskee]

The post I responded to read, in relevant part, "They don't have anyone else with the size and speed to guard Lou all over the floor". I'm just saying that I've watched Mabrey guard Lou one-on-one and think she's got the size/speed/length to do it.

I'm not saying she's going to shut Lou down or anything, just that she has the physical attributes to guard her. Lou has the talent level where you can have a good defender on her, defend her well, and she can still go off for 20+ if she's on her game.

I know you weren't. Just using a McD A/A game as a reference - I just thought way wrong to use a McD A/A game.

 

[StephStorrs]

Is it bad to say that I don't care who Kia guards so long as we see some of that incredible defense we saw from her at the DP game? I know I might be asking a lot, but I can't stop thinking about how great that box out was.

But alas, I'm on the same page as everyone else saying that Kia is likely going to be on Allen. It feels like a very good matchup and I don't doubt she can handle it. I'm also on the same page as those saying that our starting 5 will be the same going into the game - I think the worst thing that could be done for Nat right now is throwing her to the wolves when she's been solid coming off the bench. Hopefully next season, we can get one of our bigs starting against ND... but Wednesday, I don't see it happening.

We need a strong game from Chong without a doubt - not necessarily offensively, but definitely defensively. I expect her to get ample minutes solely because she is more experienced on the defensive end than Crystal, though I don't think Crystal will be slighted on minutes either. I don't, however, expect to see any of the other freshman unless UConn somehow miraculously begins to run a basketball clinic for our good friends in South Bend.

 

[oldude]

They play defense in the McDonalds AA game?????

 

[UcMiami]

the who does _____ guard is all very interesting, but with Uconn generally switching on every screen, and ND doing a fair amount of that as well, and both teams running a lot of motion in their offense ... I think it is a little moot. I do think the initial assignment is probably Kia on Allen for Uconn.

 

[Orangutan]

Notre Dame

1. Experience
2. Depth
3. Size
   
4. Rebounding
5. Home Court

UConn

1. Strength of Schedule
2. Defense
3. Team speed/quickness
4. Toughness
   
5. Coaching

All star games aside, some comments on these.

Experience - ND is starting 1 senior (Allen), 2 juniors (Turner, Westbeld), and two sophomores (Mabrey, Ogunbowale). UConn is starting a senior (Chong), 2 juniors (Williams, Nurse), and 2 sophomores (Samuelson, Collier). UConn's key reserves are Butler (redshirt junior) and Dangerfield (freshman). ND's key reserves are Young (freshman), Johnson (junior), and Nelson (redshirt junior). Not much difference there.

Depth - UConn are playing 7, it seems. ND's minutes distribution is a little flatter but...beyond the starting 5, I'm happy to have Young in the game. Johnson plays her role well even if basically all she can do on offense is shoot open 3s. Nelson is rightly cited as significantly improved but she is still a liability against strong competition and only shooting 38.6%, which is rotten for a post. Boley is starting to show improvement but I think this game comes too early for her to have a significant positive impact. I don't expect her to play much. So I think both teams are about 7 deep, though Nelson will probably play some, too.

Size - UConn's starters are 5-8, 5-11, 6-0, 6-1, 6-3. ND's are 5-8, 5-8, 5-11, 6-2, and 6-3. Not much difference and I happen to think Westbeld's 6-2 is awfully generous. ND can bring 6'4 Nelson off bench. UConn has 6'5 Butler.

 

[CL82]

I chuckled at the image of a ref presenting a participation trophy to Diana Taurasi.

 

[UcMiami]

Great summary Orang! They are more similar than a lot of people think, or than the general perception. I think your list obscures one thing though - ND has a not insignificant advantage in terms of experience of its post and point - two pivot points for a team. and probably an experience advantage more in important minutes played than in actual years.

 

[hugefan]

In the McDonald's All-American game, Mabrey guarded Lou and did pretty well on her. Obviously, Lou is a different player now, but I still think Mabrey can guard her and she'll be up for the challenge mentally. I expect Jackie Young will guard her at times as well. The key for ND will not be leaving her open from 3. ND has not done a great job rotating out to cover shooters this year and UConn will make them pay, Lou most of all.

O I think you got that from Biebel he has been peddling that information for nearly 2 years. In fact Mabrey only guarded Lou for about 2 mins at the start of the game and Lou scored I think 6 pts and received a nice pass from Mabrey where she saved it under the basket, LOL showing poor IQ on her part. She was never on Lou again, after all it was an all star game LOL

 

[UcMiami]

Title of this thread needs to change!!!
#1 vs. #1

 

[Orangutan]

O I think you got that from Biebel he has been peddling that information for nearly 2 years. In fact Mabrey only guarded Lou for about 2 mins at the start of the game and Lou scored I think 6 pts and received a nice pass from Mabrey where she saved it under the basket, LOL showing poor IQ on her part. She was never on Lou again, after all it was an all star game LOL

I got it from watching that game with my own eyes.

I couldn't swear to how many minutes they were matched head-to-head. Possibly it has become magnified in my mind. My recollection is that Mabrey was on Lou anytime they were on the court together. I wish I could find the box score or a video of the game.

I have become sorry I ever mentioned that game. I would have been better off if I had offered the opinion that Mabrey can guard KLS with absolutely no evidence. Lesson learned, if you spout off without attempting to justify your opinion, no one can attack your justification!

 

[GoUconn7961]

For some reason my gut twisted when I found out we had jumped to #1 and ND to #2. I wish the AP had left it as it was. I prefer being the underdog (though I still think UCONN is ) I may DVR it because I hate watching the games when they're played at ND..

 

[Huskie78]

The Huskies are on their way to South Bend! Safe travels!

Google

 

[bleeckerhusky]

Title of this thread needs to change!!!
#1 vs. #1

Not any more. UConn is now ranked first in both polls.

 

[UcMiami]

Not any more. UConn is now ranked first in both polls.

Um - what you smoking?!
2017 Women's College Basketball Rankings and Polls for Week 5 - ESPN

 

[bleeckerhusky]

Um - what you smoking?!
2017 Women's College Basketball Rankings and Polls for Week 5 - ESPN

Good question. I don't know what I was looking at. Just wishful thinking, I guess.

 

[hugefan]

I got it from watching that game with my own eyes.

I couldn't swear to how many minutes they were matched head-to-head. Possibly it has become magnified in my mind. My recollection is that Mabrey was on Lou anytime they were on the court together. I wish I could find the box score or a video of the game.

I have become sorry I ever mentioned that game. I would have been better off if I had offered the opinion that Mabrey can guard KLS with absolutely no evidence. Lesson learned, if you spout off without attempting to justify your opinion, no one can attack your justification!

It was exactly 2 mins I have the last 5 McDs games taped and she was never in her again, it's like the story my grandpa would tell, I walked 10 miles to school, in the snow with no shoes LOL.

 

[Orangutan]

It was exactly 2 mins I have the last 5 McDs games taped and she was never in her again, it's like the story my grandpa would tell, I walked 10 miles to school, in the snow with no shoes LOL.

Have to take your word for it, I guess. Wish I had the last few games taped

Anyhow, who did guard KLS most of this game? Mabrey and Young, for the most part, just as I said.

 

[hoophuskee]

Have to take your word for it, I guess. Wish I had the last few games taped

Anyhow, who did guard KLS most of this game? Mabrey and Young, for the most part, just as I said.

It's the point that you used the McD game as a reference. I still can't believe you're fighting this. You used an exhibition game with "who cares" running plays etc as a barometer that she could guard Lou. The argument shouldn't have been "Mabrey can't guard her at all." It was your use of an exhibition game that was one of your top points. Because of that, it took away from everything else you say if what you're going to do is use exhibition time to make a point. It sounded desperate and in no way did it need to be.

 

[Orangutan]

It's the point that you used the McD game as a reference. I still can't believe you're fighting this. You used an exhibition game with "who cares" running plays etc as a barometer that she could guard Lou. The argument shouldn't have been "Mabrey can't guard her at all." It was your use of an exhibition game that was one of your top points. Because of that, it took away from everything else you say if what you're going to do is use exhibition time to make a point. It sounded desperate and in no way did it need to be.

Feel free to imagine I never said anything about that game. The statement "I think Mabrey can guard her and she'll be up for the challenge mentally" would still stand.

Your unsolicited advice as to rhetorical strategy is noted.

 

[ochoopsfan]

There are many "Gaps" that we know of.
The Cumberland Gap that goes between Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee. The clothing store"The Gap". The Gap between the teeth in Michael Strahans smile. But the Most Famous "Gap" might just be between the #1 WCBB Team, UConn, and everyone else.