"WNBA who ?"

[KnightBridgeAZ]

While I see a lot of great issues raised here, there are a few comments that I don't think really reflect reality.

To the point that the Triangle, or really most places other than Storrs, Knoxville, maybe Ames, are not places to hear WBB talked about is 100% correct about the general population. And even if you have a team that draws well - such as the above mentioned - it doesn't imply that the rest of the area's population is necessarily thinking much about WBB. Even when Rutgers was at its best, and covered (fairly well) in local papers, the average Joe had no idea. When RU football, at its worst, flexed some advertising muscle and gimmick (such as West Coast Offense or "Jersey Guy" coach) everyone was talking and when they introduced the "block R" all of a sudden "R"s were all over town.

College fan-bases run deep for football and / or basketball. Most schools are one or the other, Arizona and I think UConn are unquestionably basketball schools. So even though RichRod has revitalized AZ football and we are suddenly drawing well, mention Arizona sports to the average person out here and they will instantly think basketball. And yes, game day for both sports is rife with tradition.

You cannot cookie cut an answer to increase school fan base interest. Marketing and trying to get folks who are already fans of the school out to WBB games is a big part, also trying to generate student interest.

The W is its own issue - make no mistake Homophobia, Sexism, etc. are very real issues out there, and unfortunately by trying at times (and inconsistently, IMO) to manipulate those issues to the league's advantage has done very little. At best, part of the problem with the league is simply that it isn't widespread and there isn't widespread interest. And that is a problem to which I don't know the solution.

 

[JSB60]

UCONN is the blueprint of how to generate fan interest in college WBB...have a winning program, draw students and alumni, draw older members of the community who prefer the way the women's game is played, did I mention have a winning program. I'm not sure the WNBA has any easy path, the groups who support the college game aren't as big pro sports fans, and fans in NBA cities have a lot of other sports options. I pretty much watch WNBA to see UCONN alums.

 

[UConnCat]

powerful ad by the wnba, btw:

 

[WestCoastFan]

UCONN is the blueprint of how to generate fan interest in college WBB...have a winning program, draw students and alumni, draw older members of the community who prefer the way the women's game is played, did I mention have a winning program. I'm not sure the WNBA has any easy path, the groups who support the college game aren't as big pro sports fans, and fans in NBA cities have a lot of other sports options. I pretty much watch WNBA to see UCONN alums.

Agree with all your points. No substitute for winning...play hard, play disciplined, play smart, play defense and sacrifice for the team. Having really good players (supplemented with a few great ones) always helps. Don't think the WNBA has most of those attributes. The NBA certainly doesn't. Fan turn-out in Storrs, South Bend, Waco and Columbia show that you don't need a large, local population to be successful.

 

[Striper69]

Great comment, Daddy C. Let's get real...I'll say it: The WNBA has survived because of the NBA...remember the old ABL? Name recognition has helped it immensely, along with the corresponding sponsorship, but at some point the product has to become more entertaining to ALL. Completely agree that women are not paid as well as men in the workplace...not fair. However, sports today is about entertainment. If I want to watch poorly coached teams who play poor defense and prefer to pass once and jack it up, I'll turn on Lee Bron, Kobe and the rest of the good ol' boys...not the WNBA. It has nothing to do with homophobia and the related -isms/-gyny. My suggestion to the WNBA: Hire the CEO of the LPGA...that cat has done wonders building sponsorship and a fan base around the world. Accentuate the differences between the sexes. Please don't blame the populace for a poorly run organization. ENTERTAIN US!

When was the last time you actually attended a WNBA game?


Thought so...

 

[Striper69]

There was an article on the ESPN site about the NBA Commissioner and some comments he made about the WNBA. I recommend reading it.

A bad thing about this time of year regarding interest in the WNBA playoffs is that most of the men have been starving for NFL football since February so the WNBA has to compete with that. Add on the newly found addiction to Fantasy Football and the WNBA has an uphill fight to compete for attention.

 

[Striper69]

Agree with all your points. No substitute for winning...play hard, play disciplined, play smart, play defense and sacrifice for the team. Having really good players (supplemented with a few great ones) always helps. Don't think the WNBA has most of those attributes. The NBA certainly doesn't. Fan turn-out in Storrs, South Bend, Waco and Columbia show that you don't need a large, local population to be successful.

You must not have seen all the empty seats at Gampel for a lot of their home games...

they do have the TV coverage they need though.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

There was an article on the ESPN site about the NBA Commissioner and some comments he made about the WNBA. I recommend reading it.

A bad thing about this time of year regarding interest in the WNBA playoffs is that most of the men have been starving for NFL football since February so the WNBA has to compete with that. Add on the newly found addiction to Fantasy Football and the WNBA has an uphill fight to compete for attention.

I would point out that going against both NCAA FB and the NFL is tough. And not just men, lots of women folk at college football games and (in limited experience, I admit) lots of female interest in the NFL as well.

Folks tend to forget that it isn't always the "direct" competition in a given time slot - after all, tonight I can watch on TV both the NY Football Giants and the Phoenix Mercury thanks to the wonder of DVRs. And if I lived near either location, I could go to the game and then come home and watch the other.

Rather, it is the competition for the time that most folks have available to allocate to sports that makes this particular time frame for the WNBA playoffs so difficult, and of course this carries through to the media coverage as well. One of the reasons we didn't support or (closely) follow Rutgers Men's Basketball at all when we were attending all the women's games was both the direct conflicts but also the lack of over-all time to follow both.

PS - no addiction to Fantasy Football to be found here. Never tried it and never will. Not my thing.

 

[Orangutan]

I'm a Sky season-ticket holder. This is a pretty well-known fact in my social circle because it comes up in the context of "Where were you last Friday." "I was at the Sky game."

Thus, I have had numerous opportunities to observe the reactions of people who find out that I am a Sky Season ticket holders. Typically you would expect the reaction of "Oh, cool" or "That's fun" or some other polite acknowledgment of "I'm glad you do a thing you like to do". And you get that about half the time.

The other half the time you get a derisive laugh followed by one or more of these:

• Do you have a friend/relative on the team?
• Are you trying to pick up girls at the game?
• Do you just go because you're attracted to the players?

There's probably a few more that I'm forgetting. The common bond is that many people just can't believe that a 27-year-old straight male would pay to see women's basketball because he likes women's basketball. So they ascribe some sort of ulterior motive to it. Not all of these people are sexist but many of them clearly are.

To me, that's the biggest issue facing the WNBA. So many people reject women's basketball out of hand, never having so much as watched a full WNBA game.

Vice and Grantland in the past few years both did "We Went to a WNBA Game" articles. These pieces treated attending a WNBA game as a strange adventure, but both, if I recall correctly, concluded that it was actually a fun time. I'm convinced many more people would like it if they gave it a chance.

My dad took me to local girls high school games when I was young. Our local HS was a fixture in the county playoffs in those years and the games were often exciting nail-biters. So I learned a young age that the women's game can be exciting, too. Most people don't get that kind of exposure, so they just accept the prevailing Sports Bro opinion that it's boring and move on.

My formulation to those Sports Bros is this: Do you like women? Do you like basketball? If the answer to both is yes, why not watch women's basketball? It's just basketball.

Steph Curry can't dunk and I think most people agree that he's a pretty exciting player, so the athleticism gap is not the whole reason people don't watch the WNBA. Some of it is pure indifference (e.g. basketball fans that spent their sports attention and $ on MLB in the summer) but I see a lot of active hostility/derision from sports fans. The WNBA is a thing that is socially acceptable to mock in sports fan circles.

I don't know how to change this. I love the "Watch Me" ad and I think they need to continue to play up the "Summer Hoops" angle and market this as the hardcore hoopshead's summer fix. The fact that NBA summer league broadcasts are gaining traction and the WNBA seems to be treading water is pretty sad.

*end rant

 

[j66kicker]

I don't know how to change this. I love the "Watch Me" ad and I think they need to continue to play up the "Summer Hoops" angle and market this as the hardcore hoopshead's summer fix. The fact that NBA summer league broadcasts are gaining traction and the WNBA seems to be treading water is pretty sad.

*end rant

I think the "Watch me" ad is good, but the only programs where I see it run are WNBA playoff games. So, sorta by definition, the audience is the one small sliver of the total potential viewing audience who doesn't need to see it. Shouldn't they run it on NFL games, etc? (or maybe that costs too much #$%@#&?????)

 

[WestCoastFan]

When was the last time you actually attended a WNBA game?


Thought so...

2010: Seattle vs LA (Bird and Jackson dominated)

Last time for:
NFL: 2010, SD vs Baltimore (free tickets)
MLB: This July, SD vs SF (free tickets)
NHL: Never
ABA: 1976, Denver vs Nets (The Doctah!)
NBA: Never (watched the Lakers and Bucks in an exhibition back in the 70's, but that doesn't really count).
Movie Theatre for full price ($15): 2013, The Purge. My daughter paid...we left halfway and they refunded her money!

I prefer to waste my money on good cigars, fine wine and great scotch...also on Breitling watches, an ex-wife (and future ex-girlfriends) and 4K HD TVs. Hey, at least I'm entertained!

BTW, when was the last time you had a clue?? Thought so...

 

[WestCoastFan]

I'm a Sky season-ticket holder. This is a pretty well-known fact in my social circle because it comes up in the context of "Where were you last Friday." "I was at the Sky game."

Thus, I have had numerous opportunities to observe the reactions of people who find out that I am a Sky Season ticket holders. Typically you would expect the reaction of "Oh, cool" or "That's fun" or some other polite acknowledgment of "I'm glad you do a thing you like to do". And you get that about half the time.

The other half the time you get a derisive laugh followed by one or more of these:

• Do you have a friend/relative on the team?
• Are you trying to pick up girls at the game?
• Do you just go because you're attracted to the players?

There's probably a few more that I'm forgetting. The common bond is that many people just can't believe that a 27-year-old straight male would pay to see women's basketball because he likes women's basketball. So they ascribe some sort of ulterior motive to it. Not all of these people are sexist but many of them clearly are.

To me, that's the biggest issue facing the WNBA. So many people reject women's basketball out of hand, never having so much as watched a full WNBA game.

Vice and Grantland in the past few years both did "We Went to a WNBA Game" articles. These pieces treated attending a WNBA game as a strange adventure, but both, if I recall correctly, concluded that it was actually a fun time. I'm convinced many more people would like it if they gave it a chance.

My dad took me to local girls high school games when I was young. Our local HS was a fixture in the county playoffs in those years and the games were often exciting nail-biters. So I learned a young age that the women's game can be exciting, too. Most people don't get that kind of exposure, so they just accept the prevailing Sports Bro opinion that it's boring and move on.

My formulation to those Sports Bros is this: Do you like women? Do you like basketball? If the answer to both is yes, why not watch women's basketball? It's just basketball.

Steph Curry can't dunk and I think most people agree that he's a pretty exciting player, so the athleticism gap is not the whole reason people don't watch the WNBA. Some of it is pure indifference (e.g. basketball fans that spent their sports attention and $ on MLB in the summer) but I see a lot of active hostility/derision from sports fans. The WNBA is a thing that is socially acceptable to mock in sports fan circles.

I don't know how to change this. I love the "Watch Me" ad and I think they need to continue to play up the "Summer Hoops" angle and market this as the hardcore hoopshead's summer fix. The fact that NBA summer league broadcasts are gaining traction and the WNBA seems to be treading water is pretty sad.

*end rant

Nice rant. Good points.

 

[easttexastrash]

When I tell people that I like women's basketball I often get "how did you become interested in that?" I find this question amusing since I grew up in a family that enjoyed going to both high school girls and boys games. Nobody ever asks me how I became interested in tennis, college football or the NFL.

 

[DaddyChoc]

I'm a Sky season-ticket holder. This is a pretty well-known fact in my social circle because it comes up in the context of "Where were you last Friday." "I was at the Sky game."

Thus, I have had numerous opportunities to observe the reactions of people who find out that I am a Sky Season ticket holders. Typically you would expect the reaction of "Oh, cool" or "That's fun" or some other polite acknowledgment of "I'm glad you do a thing you like to do". And you get that about half the time.

The other half the time you get a derisive laugh followed by one or more of these:

• Do you have a friend/relative on the team?
• Are you trying to pick up girls at the game?
• Do you just go because you're attracted to the players?

There's probably a few more that I'm forgetting. The common bond is that many people just can't believe that a 27-year-old straight male would pay to see women's basketball because he likes women's basketball. So they ascribe some sort of ulterior motive to it. Not all of these people are sexist but many of them clearly are.

To me, that's the biggest issue facing the WNBA. So many people reject women's basketball out of hand, never having so much as watched a full WNBA game.

Vice and Grantland in the past few years both did "We Went to a WNBA Game" articles. These pieces treated attending a WNBA game as a strange adventure, but both, if I recall correctly, concluded that it was actually a fun time. I'm convinced many more people would like it if they gave it a chance.

My dad took me to local girls high school games when I was young. Our local HS was a fixture in the county playoffs in those years and the games were often exciting nail-biters. So I learned a young age that the women's game can be exciting, too. Most people don't get that kind of exposure, so they just accept the prevailing Sports Bro opinion that it's boring and move on.

My formulation to those Sports Bros is this: Do you like women? Do you like basketball? If the answer to both is yes, why not watch women's basketball? It's just basketball.

Steph Curry can't dunk and I think most people agree that he's a pretty exciting player, so the athleticism gap is not the whole reason people don't watch the WNBA. Some of it is pure indifference (e.g. basketball fans that spent their sports attention and $ on MLB in the summer) but I see a lot of active hostility/derision from sports fans. The WNBA is a thing that is socially acceptable to mock in sports fan circles.

I don't know how to change this. I love the "Watch Me" ad and I think they need to continue to play up the "Summer Hoops" angle and market this as the hardcore hoopshead's summer fix. The fact that NBA summer league broadcasts are gaining traction and the WNBA seems to be treading water is pretty sad.

*end rant

you cant even get WCBB fans to watch WNBA games... thats a huge problem IMO

 

[UcMiami]

I do think the WNBA as with all women's team sports has a really tough road to travel:

1. Gender - fan bases are partially developed by participation in a sport as a child. It is only the most recent generation where the family van has dropped the son off at football practice, and then the daughter at soccer practice. The daughter used to be dropped at dance practice (look at participation in ballet/modern dance at any dance studio, and the 'fan' base for dance performances to see that effect!) By participating in the sport you learn and try to copy the attributes of the professionals in that sport and you end up following your 'favorites' as a fan.) Much easier to develop a women's fan base for individual sports because women have been playing tennis and golf in large numbers throughout their life for a number of generations. And they are two sports, with mixed doubles and different tees, that allow mixed gender couples to participate at the same time.

2. Tradition - most sports fan affiliations are passed down generationally. Being a fan and watching sports becomes a form of bonding experience between parents and their children - and 'traditionally' the fathers have been the sports fans and they pass that fandom on to both sons and daughters. And for the vast majority of the generations alive today the team sports being watched were men's sports so those are the fandoms passed down.

3. Social - The vast majority of sports fans are men and the sports they follow are men's sports - women are much more likely to defer to their significant other if they choose to participate in fandom as part of their 'relationship', and based on #2 they already have that 'habit' from their childhood. The number of women following and attending men's team sports dwarfs those that follow the women's team sports and much of that is the 'social' aspect of that. The number of women who have gone on 'dates' to a men's sporting event is significant. The number of men who have done the same to a women's team event is much much smaller.

It will take time for the trickle down effect of changes in the above points to have any real effect on fan participation. I think the Sun have a unique situation in CT and it is a follow on to Uconn's success - there is not as much competition for sports entertainment dollars in CT as there is in just about any other populous location in the country. Placing WNBA teams in large markets with 3 or more men's pro teams as well as 2 or more nationally significant men's college programs is perhaps not the best way to develop a fan base, but finding a location that has a large enough population, has a decent basketball facility, and does not have that competition for the 'entertainment' dollar is pretty tough.
Star power and quality teams can only do so much.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I was on a short vacation last week. I picked up the local newspaper to check WNBA playoff results. They were not listed. The paper had coverage of other pro sports and lots of local HS boys and girls sports but not a mention of the WNBA.

 

[reno tony]

2010: Seattle vs LA (Bird and Jackson dominated)

Last time for:
NFL: 2010, SD vs Baltimore (free tickets)
MLB: This July, SD vs SF (free tickets)
NHL: Never
ABA: 1976, Denver vs Nets (The Doctah!)
NBA: Never (watched the Lakers and Bucks in an exhibition back in the 70's, but that doesn't really count).
Movie Theatre for full price ($15): 2013, The Purge. My daughter paid...we left halfway and they refunded her money!

I prefer to waste my money on good cigars, fine wine and great scotch...also on Breitling watches, an ex-wife (and future ex-girlfriends) and 4K HD TVs. Hey, at least I'm entertained!

BTW, when was the last time you had a clue?? Thought so...

I like this:

NFL: 1980 Rams vs.Cowboys
NHL : 79-80 Whalers in playoffs with Gordie Howe
MLB : 2015 (twice) Yankees vs. Rays
NBA: 1985-1986 Dallas Mavericks in playoffs
WNBA: Never
WCBB: 2015 Tampa Final Four
NCAAF : 2000 LaTech vs. UNR
Movie Theatre : 2014 $7.50 matinee

 

[JellyBean]

Having relocated last March from CT to the NC Triangle, it is easy to see why the WNBA is in trouble. I have NEVER heard anyone mention WCBB or the WNBA. Folks down here discuss sports a lot - football, MCBB. Even minor league baseball comes up with nary a mention of WCBB. When I bring it up, all they know is that Duke & UNC have good teams and that they are sure I can get tickets and that the tickets are inexpensive. I do not understand the lack of interest.
Someone took me to a UNC football game. The whole day is like a pageant. From daytime campus activities through the post game fireworks at about 9:30 pm everyone (players, alums, students, parents, even townies, etc) knew and played their parts in the production. Women are just as interested as men. The investment by the school must be tremendous as are the rewards. The Research Triangle is an upscale, well educated area and I do not understand how they do not see the beauty of WBB. Is this the norm when you get outside of CT, South Bend, Tenn (and maybe SC now?) ? Sad.

Girls/Women's basketball has always had problems gaining and maintaining interest levels. This is nothing new. What will change the mindset of people to attend more women's basketball and grow the game? Who knows. I just know that, like Mike Neighbors (Washington Huskies) and Doug Bruno (DePaul) (and probably several others) always state, as a basketball fan and fan of girl's/women's basketball, I am going to do my part to help continue to grow our game. I will continue to hype up girls/women's basketball games. I will attend as many high school, college, and WNBA games as I can and speak proudly of the women's game of hoops.


Grow our, Game!

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Talking Suits screaming when Griner or who-ever dunks the ball as if that legitimizes watching WBB makes me sick!
Yes I watch WBB Any WBB, over men's BB because as John Wooden said, "Men don't play BB anymore they play some form of BB only the Women play BB the way it was intended to be played!"
I think some fans go to WBB because it's hard to relate to MCBB today with rosters changing yearly! While WCBB stays the same for 4 years except obviously for FR coming in and losing GRADS!
There are only 3 teams in 2015 that make $ playing WCBB! They are: UCONN, TN, and I think SoCar is now the 3rd!
I am guessing that Iowa State might be close to making a profit!

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Talking Suits screaming when Griner or who-ever dunks the ball as if that legitimizes watching WBB makes me sick!
Yes I watch WBB Any WBB, over men's BB because as John Wooden said, "Men don't play BB anymore they play some form of BB only the Women play BB the way it was intended to be played!"
I think some fans go to WBB because it's hard to relate to MCBB today with rosters changing yearly! While WCBB stays the same for 4 years except obviously for FR coming in and losing GRADS!
There are only 3 teams in 2015 that make $ playing WCBB! They are: UCONN, TN, and I think SoCar is now the 3rd!
I am guessing that Iowa State might be close to making a profit!

As to Iowa State - I wouldn't think so, but I could be wrong. Reason - I suspect tickets are cheap. And as a B12 team, not sure of level of WBB related outside media revenue. But you could be right.

 

[John Glass]

I do not want to start a new thread

What the heck happened last night (?), a bad call decides a series and the WNBA does nothing to correct it ?

 

[calpedaler]

I do not want to start a new thread

What the heck happened last night (?), a bad call decides a series and the WNBA does nothing to correct it ?

What could they do?

 

[WestCoastFan]

I like this:

NFL: 1980 Rams vs.Cowboys
NHL : 79-80 Whalers in playoffs with Gordie Howe
MLB : 2015 (twice) Yankees vs. Rays
NBA: 1985-1986 Dallas Mavericks in playoffs
WNBA: Never
WCBB: 2015 Tampa Final Four
NCAAF : 2000 LaTech vs. UNR
Movie Theatre : 2014 $7.50 matinee

Finally learned my lesson at the movies...$6.50 before 11:00 am.

 

[John Glass]

What could they do?

use a replay challenge like the NFL ?

 

[DaddyChoc]

use a replay challenge like the NFL ?

You're talking about in the future... folks thought you were talking about that particular game