WNBA 2024 May 2024 | Page 13 | The Boneyard

WNBA 2024 May 2024

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nwhoopfan

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I’ll also just say I see Clark very similarly to Plum.
In my probably biased opinion, Plum's development was further slowed down by Laimbeer misusing her the whole time he was the coach. He finally couldn't hold her back anymore his last year with the team (when she was 6th player of the year), but look how she exploded as soon as Hammon was her coach. He changed her role with the team constantly and eroded her confidence. I sincerely hope Clark doesn't have to go thru something similar.
 

WBBTakeover

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The Fever are really bad defensively, and adding Clark and KLS probably made them even worse defensively. Not looking great early in the season.
You're not wrong about this at all, but I don't even think that these two have been the worst defensive players on the team so far (the ones who are were the worst on the team last year). :oops:
 
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I can not wait for the W to add a few more teams. Watching the Wings/Sky game, I can only imagine how good some of these players, like Siegrist, Senechal, or Gondrezick could be if they were getting consistent minutes. Maddy could be an all-star. Same with Gondrezick & Senechal.
If they weren't playing with Arike...
 

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We were promised CC/AB pick-and-rolls...

it-was-all-a-lie-paper.gif
 

bballnut90

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Thank goodness that massacre is over. That 4th quarter was a complete mess!

The Fever do not have an identity outside of "youth". They're terrible offensively (they weren't last year). They're terrible defensively (again this year). Too many poor defenders are logging heavy minutes. They do not get easy buckets offensively. Players are getting visibly frustrated. That arena sounded like a morgue for much of the night. The schedule is brutal and isn't going to let up for the next five games.

I do think that New York is very good, but they're not as good as they looked tonight. Sides sold hard in that 4th quarter. Her coaching performance was truly awful.

And no, I don't think Caitlin played well (though she did have seven rebounds and six assists). I don't think Aliyah played well, either. And yes, I do think that a lack of chemistry is an issue. But--what is the coach going to do to get these two in rhythm? Again, they did not push in transition. Whose fault is that?

Clark and Boston actually look pretty good in the pick and roll, 3 of Boston's 5 buckets came off of Clark's passes. Boston's problem today was she wanted to play bully ball but wasn't getting the ball low enough in the post, or she was too low in the post and was getting her shot blocked. And the other problem is that Clark barely touched the ball in the second half aside from when Fiebich was on her for a few minutes. When Laney was guarding her, Indiana didn't look for her at all offensively. There's just no flow or identity to this team right now.

Indiana has a brutal start to the year too. Next game is at NY, followed by Connecticut at home, Seattle on the road, Sparks on the road and then Aces on the road. I'll be surprised if they win more than 1 game in their first 7.
 

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Clark and Boston actually look pretty good in the pick and roll, 3 of Boston's 5 buckets came off of Clark's passes.
One pick-and-roll, one pick-and-pop, and one direct pass into the post. In other words, I didn't see the coaching staff utilizing this play like they could've.
 

MilfordHusky

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Thank goodness that massacre is over. That 4th quarter was a complete mess!

The Fever do not have an identity outside of "youth". They're terrible offensively (they weren't last year). They're terrible defensively (again this year). Too many poor defenders are logging heavy minutes. They do not get easy buckets offensively. Players are getting visibly frustrated. That arena sounded like a morgue for much of the night. The schedule is brutal and isn't going to let up for the next five games.

I do think that New York is very good, but they're not as good as they looked tonight. Sides sold hard in that 4th quarter. Her coaching performance was truly awful.

And no, I don't think Caitlin played well (though she did have seven rebounds and six assists). I don't think Aliyah played well, either. And yes, I do think that a lack of chemistry is an issue. But--what is the coach going to do to get these two in rhythm? Again, they did not push in transition. Whose fault is that?

How long before the coach gets fired?
 

MilfordHusky

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I think the injury to Kelsey Mitchell is hurting Clark. She’s best with the ball in her hands on the offensive side, and they seemed to play her off ball a lot. Replace Mitchell for Wheeler and I think it looks a lot better.

The Fever are really bad defensively, and adding Clark and KLS probably made them even worse defensively. Not looking great early in the season.

I’ll also just say I see Clark very similarly to Plum. Her adjustment period will be much longer than someone like Stewie or Candace Parker. When she adds variety to her game and gets quicker and stronger, I see her as an all W player. But probably not an MVP. Could be wrong though.

Yeah, both Plum and Young took a few years to adjust to the W. The same for Skylar. Give Caitlin a few years. Also, her first 2 games were against top-3 teams. She may feast on some of the weaker teams this summer.
 

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How long before the coach gets fired?
Great question. Lin Dunn has a three-year rebuilding plan. This is Year 2. If the team doesn't show tangible signs of improvement this year (they actually look like they've taken a step back offensively and have not progressed at all defensively), then Christie Sides may get the pink slip this season. There's too much riding on the success of the Fever/CC (new TV contract, CBA negotiations, high $$ endorsements) for them to look a hot mess. The league does not have time for Sides to figure it out on the fly with this group. People were actually thinking playoffs with this squad before these past two games!

That said, I don't think it's all on Sides. Dunn has been exceedingly terrible as well. How do you hire a defensive-minded coach and stick her with players who are awful defensively? One would think that the woman who had the pleasure of coaching one of the, if not the, greatest defenders in women's basketball history would know a thing or two about selecting players with a defensive identity, but I suppose I'm giving her too much credit.

Dunn has been the GM since 2022, but some of her moves (or lack thereof) have been questionable. First, I guess she felt like she had to draft NaLyssa Smith because of her NCAA credentials, but she does not fit any defensive identity (constantly out of place, gets blown by on the perimeter, and can't hold her own on the block). Plus, she's so hyper-focused on being an All-Star (lol) and feeling like she's always being slighted (again, lol), so she can't be good for the culture. Second, what in the world was the vision with signing Erica Wheeler to a massive contract? Erica gets lit up by everyone who can lace up a pair of sneakers and doesn't do enough offensively against teams that matter to offset her poor defense. And finally, why wouldn't one pursue players like Brittney Sykes (last offseason) or Natasha Cloud (this past offseason) if you want your defensive-minded coach to succeed?

There was a lot of talk about how bad Tamika Catchings was as a GM (and she was), but outside of obvious #1 picks, Lin hasn't been that much better IMO.
 
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Yeah, both Plum and Young took a few years to adjust to the W. The same for Skylar. Give Caitlin a few years. Also, her first 2 games were against top-3 teams. She may feast on some of the weaker teams this summer.
Idk some of the weaker teams have some of the best perimeter defensive options. Mystics, Atlanta, and the Mercury all have defenders I wouldn’t want to see as a rookie guard. Liberty have the most suspect perimeter defense because outside of Laney their backcourt can’t stay in front of a cone. Surround Clark didn’t take advantage Sloot and Sab switching on her more tbh, i thought the Liberty would be one of her better match ups this season.

I’d imagine the Lynx, Wings and Sparks will be good games for her, though Clairdon can be tough.
 
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I am not worrying too much about the Fever - not yet anyway. Like many other teams, they have many new players. The training camp is very short and there are only two exhibition games wherein they can work things out in real game time conditions. Not enough, of course.

CC has two basic roles to balance on offense:

1. As the PG and a lethal weapon, she has to learn to work with their system in order to make every one else effective. The whole team has to remember that in the times they moved the ball with spacing, they are presented with easier scoring opportunities and did score easily.

2. As a lethal scorer, she needs to scale down what she did at Iowa where she was the primary and dominant scorer, ao that scoring was a higher priority for her. For this team to progress, she must learn to shed those tendencies and learn to balance her two very important functions.

Right now, Boston is less effective than she was in the 2nd half of last year. Used properly, Katie Lou should be an effective floor spacer and she is not the only one.

Defense is another matter. Team defense requires connectivity between players on the floor and a determination by players to continually work hard. I wouldn't indict CC and Katie Lou for their defensive performances yet, even in man-to-man coverage. CC looks like she has good, quick hands, so she should be able to make a few steals, deflect balls. Katie Lou has a good sense of positioning. Both have good footwork which would be useful and effective in a switching man-to-man coverage or zone. In both cases, team connectivity is important and someone has to be vocal and direct the moving parts. The league is full of excellent players, so an uncoordinated defense will always look bad.

I think that as time goes by, they should be able to work things out.....there were a couple who really looked good perimeter defenders. As UConn teams have shown, it is a team game and it performs best at both ends when good connectivity has been achieved.
 
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I am not worrying too much about the Fever - not yet anyway. Like many other teams, they have many new players. The training camp is very short and there are only two exhibition games wherein they can work things out in real game time conditions. Not enough, of course.

CC has two basic roles to balance on offense:

1. As the PG and a lethal weapon, she has to learn to work with their system in order to make every one else effective. The whole team has to remember that in the times they moved the ball with spacing, they are presented with easier scoring opportunities and did score easily.

2. As a lethal scorer, she needs to scale down what she did at Iowa where she was the primary and dominant scorer, ao that scoring was a higher priority for her. For this team to progress, she must learn to shed those tendencies and learn to balance her two very important functions.

Right now, Boston is less effective than she was in the 2nd half of last year. Used properly, Katie Lou should be an effective floor spacer and she is not the only one.

Defense is another matter. Team defense requires connectivity between players on the floor and a determination by players to continually work hard. I wouldn't indict CC and Katie Lou for their defensive performances yet, even in man-to-man coverage. CC looks like she has good, quick hands, so she should be able to make a few steals, deflect balls. Katie Lou has a good sense of positioning. Both have good footwork which would be useful and effective in a switching man-to-man coverage or zone. In both cases, team connectivity is important and someone has to be vocal and direct the moving parts. The league is full of excellent players, so an uncoordinated defense will always look bad.

I think that as time goes by, they should be able to work things out.....there were a couple who really looked good perimeter defenders. As UConn teams have shown, it is a team game and it performs best at both ends when good connectivity has been achieved.
Finally an excellent, reasoned and objective analysis. I think the most accurate obervation is the Fever are not performing as a team. Team chemistry? No. Team defense? No. On virtually every defensive play the Fever were chasing players around screens instead of switching. But to be fair, the Liberty was a matchup nightmare. Stewie, Jones, and Laney are beasts.

Even a bad GM has to see the problem. I don't see Sides lasting the season.
 

Dillon77

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In my probably biased opinion, Plum's development was further slowed down by Laimbeer misusing her the whole time he was the coach. He finally couldn't hold her back anymore his last year with the team (when she was 6th player of the year), but look how she exploded as soon as Hammon was her coach. He changed her role with the team constantly and eroded her confidence. I sincerely hope Clark doesn't have to go thru something similar.
We've been down this road before...and you're not wrong.

In his later years, "Trader" Bill was a better team builder than a coach. Yes, he had (the) top choices but he and/or Dan Padover (now in Atlanta) nailed them. Given what we've seen from teams with a plethora of first-round picks (hello, Greg Bibb and Dallas), that's no small task.

The trouble was Bill wanted to use Kelsey Plum and Jackie Young in support of a slow-it-down, pitch-it-in system. So, he had Plum/Young audition for playmaker-of-the-month system and brought in more back-to-the-basket posts to augment the Detroit system. Enough!!

Obviously, Hammon saw all this before she probably took the job and did the right thing. Case of a different cook taking over the prior one's ingredients. Thanks Bill for buying them, but even more kudos to Becky for making them much, much better.
 
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I'm not going back to read the thread but to the doubters, my girl Stewie says HELLO.
I had to eat crow last year for something - let me know how you're enjoying it.


So I'm guessing you'd appreciate this response to ESPNW's post? ;)
 

WBBTakeover

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Pat McAfee has a habit of saying really dumb things. See below:



I seem to recall this same healthy, supposed juggernaut Liberty team losing by 1 on their homecourt in Game 4 and going down 3-1 to the Finals M'VP.

EQ2JOJQ6Q7ABCJXSEHWY2NL3SQ.jpg


Mind you, he had Kelsey Plum on his show within days of this happening.
 
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Pat McAfee has a habit of saying really dumb things. See below:



I seem to recall this same healthy, supposed juggernaut Liberty team losing by 1 on their homecourt in Game 4 and going down 3-1 to the Finals M'VP.

EQ2JOJQ6Q7ABCJXSEHWY2NL3SQ.jpg


Mind you, he had Kelsey Plum on his show within days of this happening.

The opening to his show acknowledges that they're a bunch of stooges. That's part of the schtick. At the same time, he does seem to try and actually learn from the experts he brings on the show.
 

WBBTakeover

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I wouldn't indict CC and Katie Lou for their defensive performances yet, even in man-to-man coverage.
I wouldn't indict Caitlin because I did see some signs of life defensively from her in that 3rd Quarter. However, everyone in the WNBA knows about Katie Lou's lack of defense prowess and she should be indicted for her efforts (or lack thereof) on that side of the ball--especially as the season goes on (and she shows little to no improvement).
 

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Saw this last night. It's still early, but I believe this is a fair statement at the moment.

I don't know that it is, given that none of the other rookies are taking the league by storm at the moment.

Barring a miracle, LA will be 0-2 after Saturday's game and Cameron Brink will collect another 5-6 personal fouls after facing the best player in the league. Rickea Jackson is likely to shoot poorly again--this time against a better defensive team that will encourage her to take the outside shot (that she'll likely clank over and over).

Chicago may also join them at 0-2 while Angel Reese continues to struggle against those Dallas trees.

Washington may also go to 0-2 as Aaliyah Edwards draws limited minutes behind a more veteran front line.
 
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