Will UConn winning their 3rd national title stop the "weak conference" allegations?

[NSP Hoops]

Will Christmas follow Thanksgiving this year?

Depends, who do we play on Thanksgiving?

 

[easttexastrash]

It is rather interesting that people are now advancing the argument that ETT is making. Remember when the AAC was formed, the talk was that the conference was so weak that it could not prepare UCONN enough to win top NCAA games. Indeed, when UCONN played Baylor that year, there was "Dishin & Swishin" podcast after the game during which one of the contributors (I think it was Brooks but not sure) went out of her way to point out how she felt the AAC had not prepared UCONN for the game.

So folks cannot have it both ways!!!

You may find this surprising, but different people have differing opinions. This folk is only expressing MY opinion, not trying to defend someone else's.

 

[UConnCat]

Another disadvantage of playing in the AAC is the wear and tear of travel, particularly for a team like UConn whose geographically closest opponent is Temple in Philadelphia. AAC teams have little in common, including geography. UConn logged a ton of miles last season. Including its OOC games, here is a list of the states UConn traveled to last season for its regular season games:

California
Florida
Indiana
North Carolina
Texas
Florida
Ohio
Philadelphia
Tennessee
Oklahoma/Louisiana
Florida

 

[easttexastrash]

Another disadvantage of playing in the AAC is the wear and tear of travel, particularly for a team like UConn whose geographically closest opponent is Temple in Philadelphia. AAC teams have little in common, including geography. UConn logged a ton of miles last season. Including its OOC games, here is a list of the states UConn traveled to last season for its regular season games:

California
Florida
Indiana
North Carolina
Texas
Florida
Ohio
Philadelphia
Tennessee
Oklahoma/Louisiana
Florida

Does UCONN take commercial flights?

 

[Huskies Rule]

As to the poll at the top, forget about it. No one in their right mind would put group 2 (kind of obviously) but my selection would probably not be group 1 either. Pat and Geno for sure, but probably Leon Barmore and the 4th spot to be determined. While Muffett is making a case (lately), Tara made it before her. A fair number of years ago, Jody would have been possible, a few years from now it might be Kim Mulkey or (ach, choke) Brenda Frese or Jeff Walz or who knows who?. Vivian has some things going for her, and I don't think a NC is everything, but without one, I think not.

Muffet McGraw is the WCBB equivalent of the NFL's Marv Levy. In the 1990's, Levy took the Buffalo Bills to an incredible 4 consecutive Super Bowls- and he lost every single time! Coach McGraw led Notre Dame to the Super Bowl equivalent of 4 National Championships in 5 years- fantastic- but she lost every single time!

Both Levy and McGraw had outstanding regular seasons in every one of those years but was NEVER able to lead their teams to victory in the Championship game. That's an incredible record of futility in THE game that matters the most, and despite winning it all in 2001, I think McGraw's consistent failures of the past 5 years in THE big game is impossible to overlook.

Many coaches have won one championship, but that isn't sufficient to warrant discussing them among the greatest coaches of all time in WCBB. For me, there is Geno and Pat in a stratospheric class all by themselves, and then there's everybody else.

 

[Waquoit]

UCONN would win the title in any conference but not having to go through the grind of a tough schedule is a benefit that teams from other conferences don't get.

I disagree it is a benefit. Top teams get better playing good teams. It's more of a slog to play that steady diet of weaker teams, it seems it would be tougher to stay as motivated. I don't think Dayton sneaks up on them to the extent that they did if UConn was in the old Big East. Try again.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Muffet McGraw is the WCBB equivalent of the NFL's Marv Levy. In the 1990's, Levy took the Buffalo Bills to an incredible 4 consecutive Super Bowls- and he lost every single time! Coach McGraw led Notre Dame to the Super Bowl equivalent of 4 National Championships in 5 years- fantastic- but she lost every single time!

Both Levy and McGraw had outstanding regular seasons in every one of those years but was NEVER able to lead their teams to victory in the Championship game. That's an incredible record of futility in THE game that matters the most, and despite winning it all in 2001, I think McGraw's consistent failures of the past 5 years in THE big game is impossible to overlook.

Many coaches have won one championship, but that isn't sufficient to warrant discussing them among the greatest coaches of all time in WCBB. For me, there is Geno and Pat in a stratospheric class all by themselves, and then there's everybody else.

Well, my comment was regarding CVS. But here's the thing - the poster was proposing 4 coaches. Geno and Pat can very well be identified but the rub, as you and I agree, is thereafter. Since none of the others set themselves apart by the number of NC's they have won, you have to look for other factors. Leon Barmore deserves a look for his winning percentage, and regardless of "weak conference" accusations I personally - looking at his body of work, ability to maintain a program in a 2nd class conference, attract high quality athletes - favor him for a place, no one else's "body of work" convincing me they are more deserving than he is.

I don't eliminate Muffet in the same way as you do, I just don't think she sticks out more than anyone else.

 

[Alydar]

I respect UCONN immensely but being in a weak conference where there are no tough games gives UCONN basically 3 months of games in which they experience very little wear and tear on the players. UCONN would win the title in any conference but not having to go through the grind of a tough schedule is a benefit that teams from other conferences don't get.

Other than UCONN the AAC is a pretty weak conference from top to bottom.

While there is validity to what you say I think you overstate the difference in competition. It's wrong to say there is "no" tough games in the AAC. UConn had 3 games vs. USF, a team that would finish in the upper third of most of the P5 conferences and would be capable of winning against anyone other than maybe Notre Dame. Tulane managed to beat LSU. But the real problem with what you say is that none of the P5 conferences would provide what you say is tough competition. UConn already plays Notre Dame, Stanford & S Carolina. They will be playing Texas and Louisville. Both Duke and UNC have tired of having their asses handed to them. The only other teams I can think of are FSU and Tenn. As you can see, these teams are scattered among the P5. It would be one thing if UConn played flat games against the AAC but UConn doesn't play down to their competition. The intensity is maintained. That's why UConn has so many undefeated seasons.

Can you name one conference whose 4th best team could offer UConn a tough game? That's the problem, there isn't one. Now I'm sure that UConn might get banged around more in the SEC but once you get past Tenn and S Carolina all you got is Kentucky and we've seen how they do against CT. Maybe TAMU? The rest of the conference may be stronger than the AAC as a whole but none of them approach the threshold of being able to stay within 30 of UConn.

In fact I might argue that it's the elite teams that need to schedule UConn, not the other way around. The only teams that have had any success against UConn have played them regularly. The best of them is Notre Dame, who started winning after playing UConn 3 times a year. Same with Rutgers prior to that. It's those teams that need to experience the speed and 40 minute intensity that UConn gives in a game. Teams that haven't experienced it generally get hammered the first time.

 

[easttexastrash]

While there is validity to what you say I think you overstate the difference in competition. It's wrong to say there is "no" tough games in the AAC. UConn had 3 games vs. USF, a team that would finish in the upper third of most of the P5 conferences and would be capable of winning against anyone other than maybe Notre Dame. Tulane managed to beat LSU. But the real problem with what you say is that none of the P5 conferences would provide what you say is tough competition. UConn already plays Notre Dame, Stanford & S Carolina. They will be playing Texas and Louisville. Both Duke and UNC have tired of having their asses handed to them. The only other teams I can think of are FSU and Tenn. As you can see, these teams are scattered among the P5. It would be one thing if UConn played flat games against the AAC but UConn doesn't play down to their competition. The intensity is maintained. That's why UConn has so many undefeated seasons.

Can you name one conference whose 4th best team could offer UConn a tough game? That's the problem, there isn't one. Now I'm sure that UConn might get banged around more in the SEC but once you get past Tenn and S Carolina all you got is Kentucky and we've seen how they do against CT. Maybe TAMU? The rest of the conference may be stronger than the AAC as a whole but none of them approach the threshold of being able to stay within 30 of UConn.

In fact I might argue that it's the elite teams that need to schedule UConn, not the other way around. The only teams that have had any success against UConn have played them regularly. The best of them is Notre Dame, who started winning after playing UConn 3 times a year. Same with Rutgers prior to that. It's those teams that need to experience the speed and 40 minute intensity that UConn gives in a game. Teams that haven't experienced it generally get hammered the first time.

If you have consecutive games against ND, Duke, MD and UNC the mental and physical fatigue is greater than any consecutive games the AAC has to offer. It is easier to "get up" for tough games and recover from games that are spread weeks apart. After January 1 UCONN does not experience consecutive games the are very challenging.

UCONN would win any conference they are in but the chances of taking a loss are greater when more good teams are played.

 

[Wonkster]

I don't get how so many people miss the point about the AAC's weakness charge: recruiters have got to have something against UConn to slam them with for recruits they're pursuing, something that's plausible enough for the weak-minded to be swayed by.

It's just a lawyer's trick. If UConn found itself in a strong conference, they'd be sure to emphasize the lousy weather in Storrs.

 

[meyers7]

Does UCONN take commercial flights?

I think they take quite a few chartered flights. Not sure of the percentage between the two though. Most of the WNBA players from UCONN have said that the flights, hotels. etc. at UCONN where better than the WNBA. So UCONN takes pretty good care of them.

 

[Waquoit]

It's just a lawyer's trick. If UConn found itself in a strong conference, they'd be sure to emphasize the lousy weather in Storrs.

Didn't UConn win 90 in a row while playing in a strong conference?

 

[Alydar]

If you have consecutive games against ND, Duke, MD and UNC the mental and physical fatigue is greater than any consecutive games the AAC has to offer. It is easier to "get up" for tough games and recover from games that are spread weeks apart. After January 1 UCONN does not experience consecutive games the are very challenging.

UCONN would win any conference they are in but the chances of taking a loss are greater when more good teams are played.

Again, you make a valid point but overstate it. You were talking about "basically 3 months of games in which they experience very little wear and tear on the players." Seeing how the NCAA's started March 20th, you are saying that UConn had no tough games after the December exam break, which is a gross exaggeration. Let's look at the tougher games UConn had last season.

11/29 - Vandi
11/30 - G Bay
12/6 - N Dame

exam break

12/19 - DePaul
12/21 - UCLA
12/29 - Duke

1/18 - USF

2/9 - S Carolina

3/2 - USF
3/9 - USF

I don't see a 3 month gap anywhere.

Furthermore, Just because a team isn't in the top 25 doesn't mean they can't play a tough physical game. If you had seen UConn's 3 games against E Carolina you wouldn't be saying that UConn has it easy throughout their conference games. E Carolina was offensively challenged but they could bang with anyone. I'd suggest that E Carolina played a more physically demanding game than UNC would offer.

There are 3 lines of thought as far as the AAC's effect on UConn.

1. It will effect recruiting. - So far, no evidence to support that idea

2. The weak competition will weaken UConn's play - So far no evidence to support that idea

3. The weak non-physical play will help UConn stay strong and fresh for the NCAA's. - sorry, but no evidence to support that either. Now I'll admit that there are more challenging games in other conferences, but I'd like you to show me where any of the elite P-5 teams faced consecutive regular season games anywhere close to "ND, Duke, MD and UNC" last season.

Now I can remember back when UCLA ruled men's basketball. They also played in a weak conference. The PAC was a great football conference but really bad in men's basketball. Wooden would schedule some tough OOC games during the season but always scattered them so he had plenty of time to prep, so I see your point. But so far it hasn't effected UConn's game preparation during the NCAA's. Sure, there are games like Dayton, but those are more due to the excellent play of the opponent than to a letdown on UConn's part.

I'd love to see UConn move to a conference that gave them 8 to 10 competitive games. Unfortunately that conference doesn't exist.

 

[easttexastrash]

Again, you make a valid point but overstate it. You were talking about "basically 3 months of games in which they experience very little wear and tear on the players." Seeing how the NCAA's started March 20th, you are saying that UConn had no tough games after the December exam break, which is a gross exaggeration. Let's look at the tougher games UConn had last season.

11/29 - Vandi
11/30 - G Bay
12/6 - N Dame

exam break

12/19 - DePaul
12/21 - UCLA
12/29 - Duke

1/18 - USF

2/9 - S Carolina

3/2 - USF
3/9 - USF

I don't see a 3 month gap anywhere.

Furthermore, Just because a team isn't in the top 25 doesn't mean they can't play a tough physical game. If you had seen UConn's 3 games against E Carolina you wouldn't be saying that UConn has it easy throughout their conference games. E Carolina was offensively challenged but they could bang with anyone. I'd suggest that E Carolina played a more physically demanding game than UNC would offer.

There are 3 lines of thought as far as the AAC's effect on UConn.

1. It will effect recruiting. - So far, no evidence to support that idea

2. The weak competition will weaken UConn's play - So far no evidence to support that idea

3. The weak non-physical play will help UConn stay strong and fresh for the NCAA's. - sorry, but no evidence to support that either. Now I'll admit that there are more challenging games in other conferences, but I'd like you to show me where any of the elite P-5 teams faced consecutive regular season games anywhere close to "ND, Duke, MD and UNC" last season.

Now I can remember back when UCLA ruled men's basketball. They also played in a weak conference. The PAC was a great football conference but really bad in men's basketball. Wooden would schedule some tough OOC games during the season but always scattered them so he had plenty of time to prep, so I see your point. But so far it hasn't effected UConn's game preparation during the NCAA's. Sure, there are games like Dayton, but those are more due to the excellent play of the opponent than to a letdown on UConn's part.

I'd love to see UConn move to a conference that gave them 8 to 10 competitive games. Unfortunately that conference doesn't exist.

You have one game listed in January, one game listed in February and two games listed in March. Are you trying to convince me that the schedule after December was challenging?

 

[Alydar]

You have one game listed in January, one game listed in February and two games listed in March. Are you trying to convince me that the schedule after December was challenging?

Frankly I never suggested it was challenging. But I'll add that there wasn't a conference in the country that would have offered a challenging schedule for UConn. In order for that, UConn would need to play the top 2-3 teams in all the P-5.

I believe you said 3 months without consecutive tough games and little wear and tear.. Three months back from mid-March is mid-December. Like i said, you make a valid comment but overstated it. Furthermore, even elite P5 teams rarely play back to back tough games.

 

[easttexastrash]

Frankly I never suggested it was challenging. But I'll add that there wasn't a conference in the country that would have offered a challenging schedule for UConn. In order for that, UConn would need to play the top 2-3 teams in all the P-5.

I believe you said 3 months without consecutive tough games and little wear and tear.. Three months back from mid-March is mid-December. Like i said, you make a valid comment but overstated it. Furthermore, even elite P5 teams rarely play back to back tough games.

You are right. I should have said two and a half months.

But back to the original question, by winning a third title UCONN does not stop the talk about the AAC being a weak conference. But UCONN has no control over that and does a great job of setting a strong OOC schedule.

 

[Alydar]

You are right. I should have said two and a half months.

But back to the original question, by winning a third title UCONN does not stop the talk about the AAC being a weak conference. But UCONN has no control over that and does a great job of setting a strong OOC schedule.

I agree. The talk about conference strength started a long time ago and will continue. Most of it comes from fans of a
SEC team. They have touted and still do tout the SEC as the "strongest, top to bottom". The "top to bottom" part was added a couple of years ago when several years had gone by without even one of them making the FF. Even when UConn was in the BE those who wished to find something negative to say would say that despite having 3 or 4 really good teams the BE was "pathetic" in their bottom half.

If all 11 AAC teams made the S16 there would be some who would find something else to talk about. This has nothing to do with conference strength. It's all about diminishing UConn. Always has been. (And I'm not referring to you)

 

[Waquoit]

There is no doubt that the AAC is a weak conference (though not as weak as the selection committee made it out to be). But the Big East was a weak conference when UConn first got going and it ended up as the one of strongest conferences when it was disbanded. If not the strongest conference. The AAC will continue to get better as long as UConn is in it.

 

[easttexastrash]

UCONN would dominate any conference they belong to, although I suspect that there would be a chance of more exciting games if they were in the ACC or SEC. Baylor would certainly take more losses if we belonged to either of those conferences.

 

[Wally East]

I don't get how so many people miss the point about the AAC's weakness charge: recruiters have got to have something against UConn to slam them with for recruits they're pursuing, something that's plausible enough for the weak-minded to be swayed by.

It's just a lawyer's trick. If UConn found itself in a strong conference, they'd be sure to emphasize the lousy weather in Storrs.

Yeah but that doesn't make it not true. The AAC is as lousy as the winters in Connecticut.

Rushmore four: Geno, Pat, Leon, Tara. (Muffet is a fifth.)

 

[Alydar]

UCONN would dominate any conference they belong to, although I suspect that there would be a chance of more exciting games if they were in the ACC or SEC. Baylor would certainly take more losses if we belonged to either of those conferences.

You forget that in the ACC, UConn already plays Notre Dame and FSU and is about to restart playing Louisville. Both Duke and UNC got sick of getting hammered and there's no reason to think playing them would result in anything but a 30+ point win. There are no other games that would be anything close to exciting. In the SEC, UConn already plays the best team, SC. All that's left there is Tenn and Kentucky. The rest offer nothing but blowouts. Like I said, the only way for UConn to play a competitive schedule is for them to schedule the top teams in ALL the P-5 conferences. And they already play a lot of them.

And in any case, getting them out of the AAC is in the hands of UConn's football program and AD's office.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Yeah but that doesn't make it not true. The AAC is as lousy as the winters in Connecticut.

Rushmore four: Geno, Pat, Leon, Tara. (Muffet is a fifth.)

Mine, too.