Why UConn is losing games? Simple: it's the defense | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Why UConn is losing games? Simple: it's the defense

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Sanogo protects the rim just fine when he’s actually in the paint. He’s not the issue. Watch older clips. It’s the defense he is asked to play, which is not the same as Clingan. Hurley’s normal defense actually doesn’t have a shot blocker at all, he disrupts drives at the perimeter. But Clingan can’t do that and Sanogo can, but not like Whaley, and Hurley has Sanogo in some half assed position where he’s not doing either.
I encourage you to re-watch yesterday's game.

I love Adama, but Sanogo's rim protection was very, very bad. And almost all of the times he had to rim-protect, he was already deep in the lane. It had nothing to do with him being out on the perimeter or gasp high-hedging, and everything to do with not being able to disrupt the drivers' shots.

He's been flat-out struggling on basic fundamental D since teams have been throwing aggressive double/triple teams at him on offense. Pretty sure he's one of the main guys Hurley is alluding to about letting offensive struggles affect his D.
 
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I encourage you to re-watch yesterday's game.

I love Adama, but Sanogo's rim protection was very, very bad. And almost all of the times he had to rim-protect, he was already deep in the lane. It had nothing to do with him being out on the perimeter or gasp high-hedging, and everything to do with not being able to disrupt the drivers' shots.

He's been flat-out struggling on basic fundamental D since teams have been throwing aggressive double/triple teams at him on offense. Pretty sure he's one of the main guys Hurley is alluding to about letting offensive struggles affect his D.
His defense has been really bad throughout Big East play, it was abysmal yesterday.
 
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I am sick of people referring to the Big East as rock fights, street fights, fist fights. UCONN played great D early but now gets every ticky-tack foul called. Far too many whistles. It's big east officiating and I'm sticking with that. Yes, UCONN has to play better D but it's also being saddled by the refs. It's as if the refs have never seen a 7'2" basketball player before. A player tripped over Clingan's foot and Clingan was called for the block. The announcer said if you don't keep your feet shoulder width, you are gonna get called. Shoulder width is fine if you are 5'10" but not if you are 7'2".

Fix or adjust the defense, force turnovers, score in transition. Maybe they need Taliek to spend some time on the practice court with the team.
 
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His defense has been really bad throughout Big East play, it was abysmal yesterday.
I don't think that it's a coincidence that his only real good defensive/overall game of the last 5 was the one where he feasted on Kalk's 1v1 defense. The double/triple teams (and his inability to counteract them effectively) really seem to be messing with his focus (IMHO, of course, I have no way of definitively knowing this without picking his brain)
 
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. And it works against good teams that haven't had a chance to really deeply scout the defense, not just bad teams. But these coaches in the Big East know exactly how to attack it.
Exactly,,,,if you only play one way it’s easy for the smart coaches to play you. It’s the reason Calhoun did so well against Cuse….they only play one D
 
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Hurley's Defensive scheme has just been exposed against good teams for years now, but glad you guys are catching up.

Look high hedge, hyper aggressive closeouts & teaching playmaking (reaching, poking for steals, riding the offensive player has upsides - against teams with weaknesses in the backcourt or composure issues it can force bad midrange shots, force players who aren't used to dribbling to make plays and errors, etc. It also makes getting clean 3's harder, because you are closing out at all costs to avoid it.

But it also has downsides - it makes you incredibly foul prone from the rotations, closeouts, playmaking, and physicality in space. And I think what we are learning is why unless you absolutely play no-middle like baylor or other teams philosophically, it creates wide lanes of opportunity for high level players because it provides clear lanes to drive, exposes you to backdoor cuts for easy layups, and makes it very easy to force rotation and exploit mismatches or confuse the defense for easy buckets.

To recap: Good against teams with questionable playmaking/talent. Bad against teams with good playmaking/talent. Sound familiar with Hurley?

When we have played drop coverage this year and focused on cohesive defense and walling up at the rim and not fouling, we've been much more effective defensively. That's all there is to it. In some ways I think this is also a vestige of Hurley's experience at mid-majors that hasn't translated well. When you have size disadvantages, it can make sense to create havoc/chaos and hope the good outweighs the bad because playing strait up you will probably get ground down. But when you step up to the big-boi-court and have 7'2, 6'9 on your frontline and can just play strait up more, you probably should.
We've been going more and more to drop coverage, less hedging, and going under screens as the season has gone on (though Clingan was dropping from day 1). I don't think the results have been any better, and perhaps worse. As far as I can tell, our highest rate of drop coverage has come during this 4/5 game losing streak.

The brilliance of the hedge is that it forces opponents to play your game. It opens up a major weakness, so there's an obvious way to beat it, so all opponents try that. But you can practice recovering and so you can get really good at protecting the weakness. It's like, yeah, the death star has a trench where fighters can go through to blow it up. But we know about the weakness, so we can build a million cannons in the way instead of just the normal ones on the surface of the station. Go ahead, try the trench. Some of the better coaches can find other places outside the obvious trench, but there's a really strong floor.

Switching between the hedge and drop for your different personnel with different strengths/weaknesses is also really strong as it can throw your opponents off. But it's really taxing on your own players to keep themselves focused and organized and in the right scheme.

I think in the beginning of the season we were really focused and attention to detail was strong. We got figured out a bit more in Big East play in a couple different ways defensively (going 1v1 vs. Karaban without PnR, attacking Sanogo in drop with roll man floaters over him, a lot more teams outside Iowa St back-cutting us), and also going up against some offenses that can't really be stopped reliably (Xavier and Marquette). We've made tweaks here and there and adjustments here and there, and now we're in a ship of Theseus situation, where we've tweaked enough that our team identity doesn't actually fit the defense we're playing. Overplaying the 3-point line works great when your bigs are able to prevent penetration or offer help with good rotations covering it all up. When other teams are able to get into the paint against drop coverage or back cuts or whatever, now overplaying the 3-point line means there are just big gaps that teams take advantage of.

Think we need to go back to version 1.0 or move on to version 2.0. Version 1.5 is broken.
 

gtcam

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The defense requires a coaching decision to look at film and admit that the same old same old isn't working. Time to make a change
The offense requires a coaching decision to look at film and admit that the same old same old isn't working. Time to make a change
Is there an echo in here????????????????
 

evmore

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Hawkins and Jackson have been beat off the dribble too. It's all of our guards having trouble guarding.

That was the alarming thing for me watching the game again... Just basic defensive positioning on ball.. simple . Faster rotations from the weak side. We are getting beat 1v1 or 2v2, its not like the Princeton offense got us.
 
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Here are the ways St. John's scored or drew fouls against us in the 2nd half.
  • Pinzon makes midrange pull-up, pump fake step through. Jackson fooled by pump, so the shot was open.
  • Pinzon makes midrange floater. Over/around Jackson.
  • Storr makes midrange pull-up over good Hawkins contest.
  • Addae-Wusu pushes in transition for layup. Karaban not in position after going for oreb and no communication and no one stops ball in time
  • Soriano gets ball poked away, picks it back up and throws up a wild hook that goes in.
  • Sanogo falls asleep off ball on help D. Addae Wusu cuts right by him and he should have switched onto him.
  • Soriano with ball out of the paint on the wing. Jackson man Pinzon cuts back door and he fouls him on the catch.
  • Soriano makes moving Kareem-esque 10 ft hook.
  • They pick a Hawkins pocket PnR pass off and go the other way. Curbelo leaks out and beats Newton, but drops it behind him to trailer. Jackson jumps before the guy even has control of the ball from his side and fouls him. 4th foul on Jackson, 14:02 to go. St. John's 7 point lead after FTs.
  • Curbelo mishandles a bit and Diarra starts pressing him 30 feet from basket, Curbelo goes by him. Help comes, but he makes a nice floater.
  • 1-3-1 zone. Karaban foul 25 feet from hoop. Then Sanogo bad positioning in zone middle leads to easy Curbelo layup. Sanogo playing in front of him and 4 feet off. Curbelo gets pass and walks to the rim.
  • Man D again. Calcaterra goes under the dribble handoff but still puts two hands on Posh as he starts to turn the corner for easy foul call.
  • Curbelo and Posh pressure on Diarra/Calcaterra force turnover in backcourt. Clingan goaltends.
  • Hawkins backscreened, doesn’t seem to be any communication on it, so he’s beat. Clingan a little slow to help and Curbelo gets an angle off the backboard over him.
  • Back to 1-3-1, Karaban gambles and almost gets pass, but instead Pinzon drives and draws foul on Clingan.
  • 1-3-1. They clank a 3-pointer, but get oreb. Curbelo throws up spinning lane floater, miss. Hawkins gets hand on it but batted back court to Johnnies (Calcaterra also hands on it). Blocking foul on Hawkins.1 and 1 with 8:31 to go (actually the 8th foul).
  • 1-3-1 but has poor shape since Jackson didn’t get back (can see Hawkins yelling at him to get back, Jackson thinks picking up full court?). Hawkins falls for pump fake and fouls.
  • They rebound, we have 5 guys rebounding/out of bounds and no one on contain, one guy leaks out and gets dunk. 4-point swing.
  • Hawkins misses quick low clock 3. Karaban called for over the back. Double bonus FTs for Johnnies.
  • Soriano draws foul in post play against Sanogo.
  • Soriano hits FT line extended jumper over Clingan. Johnnies up 13
  • Fast break 2 on 1. Hawkins soft reach And-1.
  • Posh falls down. Diarra goes to help/try to steal and then Posh gets up and cuts behind him for layup.
  • 1:43 left, game is basically over. We start fouling. They get a dunk at some point.
There's a misconception that they were driving right by us 1v1 or using PnR screens and getting all the way to the rim in the 2nd half. Not really the case. Marquette was doing that, but they're an elite PnR team with the Kolek/Ighodaro duo. St. John's not so much. Happened a few times, but...

Transition buckets - 5
Midrange jumpers, floaters, and runners from 8+ feet - 5
Cuts - 3
Zone positioning/gambling errors - 3
Dribble or PnR penetration for bucket or that draws foul - 3
Post ups/oreb hook shots - 2
Fouls outside the 3 point arc or other end - 2

None of this is really a systemic problem aside from our turnovers leading to free points for them and a systemic lack of focus. The cuts were in all cases mental errors. Zone errors were using a D system we weren't masters of and being overly aggressive trying to make something happen while losing. Midrange shots were slight 1v1 D problems (but not to extent of letting a guy get to the rim) or shots made against good D. Some fouls will always happen.
 
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Adama playing like he doesn’t want to risk getting fouls called on him doesn’t help. Ever since he had to sit early for getting 2 quick fouls and DC went out and was very good while he was on the bench.

Adama does not want to spend a second on the bench.

Remember that St John’s game his freshman year when he was breaking out? His comments after the game that kinda forced Hurley’s hand to play him even though Hurley was showing he did not like sitting upperclassmen for freshmen?

Adama has been not putting his max effort into defense.

Adama would rather force a shot against a double or triple team than pass to a wide open Hawk or AK. You have not been watching if you don’t see it
 
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This is what we are doing wrong.

We overplay on the outside and it allows opponents to blow by and get to the rim. It was a lay up line. Has been for five games. Overplay, blow by, lay up. Overplay, blow by and lay up.

Hell, Jackson is six foot-six inches tall, he does NOT need to be in his man's chest outside the three point line. He needs to be back a foot, take away the drive to the lane and make his guy settle for a contested outside shot.

Yes, this is an oversimplification. But we play with a lot of meaningless aggression. Meaningless because it accomplishes nothing. Softening our perimeter defense, just a hair, would yield better defensive results.
Kind of like that worthless High hedge we have Sanogo playing. Does Hurley think he is Whaley?
 

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We've been going more and more to drop coverage, less hedging, and going under screens as the season has gone on (though Clingan was dropping from day 1). I don't think the results have been any better, and perhaps worse. As far as I can tell, our highest rate of drop coverage has come during this 4/5 game losing streak.

The brilliance of the hedge is that it forces opponents to play your game. It opens up a major weakness, so there's an obvious way to beat it, so all opponents try that. But you can practice recovering and so you can get really good at protecting the weakness. It's like, yeah, the death star has a trench where fighters can go through to blow it up. But we know about the weakness, so we can build a million cannons in the way instead of just the normal ones on the surface of the station. Go ahead, try the trench. Some of the better coaches can find other places outside the obvious trench, but there's a really strong floor.

Switching between the hedge and drop for your different personnel with different strengths/weaknesses is also really strong as it can throw your opponents off. But it's really taxing on your own players to keep themselves focused and organized and in the right scheme.

I think in the beginning of the season we were really focused and attention to detail was strong. We got figured out a bit more in Big East play in a couple different ways defensively (going 1v1 vs. Karaban without PnR, attacking Sanogo in drop with roll man floaters over him, a lot more teams outside Iowa St back-cutting us), and also going up against some offenses that can't really be stopped reliably (Xavier and Marquette). We've made tweaks here and there and adjustments here and there, and now we're in a ship of Theseus situation, where we've tweaked enough that our team identity doesn't actually fit the defense we're playing. Overplaying the 3-point line works great when your bigs are able to prevent penetration or offer help with good rotations covering it all up. When other teams are able to get into the paint against drop coverage or back cuts or whatever, now overplaying the 3-point line means there are just big gaps that teams take advantage of.

Think we need to go back to version 1.0 or move on to version 2.0. Version 1.5 is broken.

Excellent points .
I agree.

Ive noticed Adama specifically really lost at times in a no mans land between drop and hedge, but he's not the only one, just the easiest to pick out when he is standing at the elbow
 
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We aren't managing to guard anyone on the perimeter or anyone at the rim with our starting lineup. I don't see this all of a sudden getting better and now it sounds like we may have locker room problems based off of Hurley's comments. The team is so far removed from the well oiled machine we saw earlier and I don't see how a subtle tweak will change things. Start your best 5 players and if any kids are being problems and won't listen to the coaches then don't play them.

Start Jackson, Hawkins, Karaban, Sanogo, and Clingan. When Samson returns figure out how he fits in.
Totally agree with the suggested starting lineup. Sanogo and Clingan should be on the floor “at the same time”. There are certainly downsides (e.g, player fatigue, fouling out, etc. ) but key upsides: rim defense, rebounding/ second chance points. Hurley has two talented big men that can compliment one another and help defend against guards beating our perimeter players to the rim. Both are scorers. If we’re going to shake -up the lineup, here’s a real good place to start!!
 
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I am sick of people referring to the Big East as rock fights, street fights, fist fights. UCONN played great D early but now gets every ticky-tack foul called. Far too many whistles. It's big east officiating and I'm sticking with that. Yes, UCONN has to play better D but it's also being saddled by the refs. It's as if the refs have never seen a 7'2" basketball player before. A player tripped over Clingan's foot and Clingan was called for the block. The announcer said if you don't keep your feet shoulder width, you are gonna get called. Shoulder width is fine if you are 5'10" but not if you are 7'2".

Fix or adjust the defense, force turnovers, score in transition. Maybe they need Taliek to spend some time on the practice court with the team.

Here we go again . . .
 
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Excellent points .
I agree.

Ive noticed Adama specifically really lost at times in a no mans land between drop and hedge, but he's not the only one, just the easiest to pick out when he is standing at the elbow
I feel like it's been that way throughout the entire Big East slate with Adama's defense and it's getting worse. He seems to always be in between now, he isn't deterring anyone on the perimeter and they're scoring over and around him in the lane all the time.
 

HuskyHawk

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We've been going more and more to drop coverage, less hedging, and going under screens as the season has gone on (though Clingan was dropping from day 1). I don't think the results have been any better, and perhaps worse. As far as I can tell, our highest rate of drop coverage has come during this 4/5 game losing streak.

The brilliance of the hedge is that it forces opponents to play your game. It opens up a major weakness, so there's an obvious way to beat it, so all opponents try that. But you can practice recovering and so you can get really good at protecting the weakness. It's like, yeah, the death star has a trench where fighters can go through to blow it up. But we know about the weakness, so we can build a million cannons in the way instead of just the normal ones on the surface of the station. Go ahead, try the trench. Some of the better coaches can find other places outside the obvious trench, but there's a really strong floor.

Switching between the hedge and drop for your different personnel with different strengths/weaknesses is also really strong as it can throw your opponents off. But it's really taxing on your own players to keep themselves focused and organized and in the right scheme.

I think in the beginning of the season we were really focused and attention to detail was strong. We got figured out a bit more in Big East play in a couple different ways defensively (going 1v1 vs. Karaban without PnR, attacking Sanogo in drop with roll man floaters over him, a lot more teams outside Iowa St back-cutting us), and also going up against some offenses that can't really be stopped reliably (Xavier and Marquette). We've made tweaks here and there and adjustments here and there, and now we're in a ship of Theseus situation, where we've tweaked enough that our team identity doesn't actually fit the defense we're playing. Overplaying the 3-point line works great when your bigs are able to prevent penetration or offer help with good rotations covering it all up. When other teams are able to get into the paint against drop coverage or back cuts or whatever, now overplaying the 3-point line means there are just big gaps that teams take advantage of.

Think we need to go back to version 1.0 or move on to version 2.0. Version 1.5 is broken.
This gets to some of what I think is the issue. Clingan can't hedge. He may not be able to even play level and cut off penetration. He has to stay back. Sanogo can hedge, not like Whaley, but better than many. But the responsibility on the other 4 guys changes and they aren't adapting to it. They don't seem to really know what to do. Agree with you, we need to just play like Clingan is in all the time or take the chance he can't rotate back on time if he plays at least level.
 
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Here are the ways St. John's scored or drew fouls against us in the 2nd half.
  • Pinzon makes midrange pull-up, pump fake step through. Jackson fooled by pump, so the shot was open.
  • Pinzon makes midrange floater. Over/around Jackson.
  • Storr makes midrange pull-up over good Hawkins contest.
  • Addae-Wusu pushes in transition for layup. Karaban not in position after going for oreb and no communication and no one stops ball in time
  • Soriano gets ball poked away, picks it back up and throws up a wild hook that goes in.
  • Sanogo falls asleep off ball on help D. Addae Wusu cuts right by him and he should have switched onto him.
  • Soriano with ball out of the paint on the wing. Jackson man Pinzon cuts back door and he fouls him on the catch.
  • Soriano makes moving Kareem-esque 10 ft hook.
  • They pick a Hawkins pocket PnR pass off and go the other way. Curbelo leaks out and beats Newton, but drops it behind him to trailer. Jackson jumps before the guy even has control of the ball from his side and fouls him. 4th foul on Jackson, 14:02 to go. St. John's 7 point lead after FTs.
  • Curbelo mishandles a bit and Diarra starts pressing him 30 feet from basket, Curbelo goes by him. Help comes, but he makes a nice floater.
  • 1-3-1 zone. Karaban foul 25 feet from hoop. Then Sanogo bad positioning in zone middle leads to easy Curbelo layup. Sanogo playing in front of him and 4 feet off. Curbelo gets pass and walks to the rim.
  • Man D again. Calcaterra goes under the dribble handoff but still puts two hands on Posh as he starts to turn the corner for easy foul call.
  • Curbelo and Posh pressure on Diarra/Calcaterra force turnover in backcourt. Clingan goaltends.
  • Hawkins backscreened, doesn’t seem to be any communication on it, so he’s beat. Clingan a little slow to help and Curbelo gets an angle off the backboard over him.
  • Back to 1-3-1, Karaban gambles and almost gets pass, but instead Pinzon drives and draws foul on Clingan.
  • 1-3-1. They clank a 3-pointer, but get oreb. Curbelo throws up spinning lane floater, miss. Hawkins gets hand on it but batted back court to Johnnies (Calcaterra also hands on it). Blocking foul on Hawkins.1 and 1 with 8:31 to go (actually the 8th foul).
  • 1-3-1 but has poor shape since Jackson didn’t get back (can see Hawkins yelling at him to get back, Jackson thinks picking up full court?). Hawkins falls for pump fake and fouls.
  • They rebound, we have 5 guys rebounding/out of bounds and no one on contain, one guy leaks out and gets dunk. 4-point swing.
  • Hawkins misses quick low clock 3. Karaban called for over the back. Double bonus FTs for Johnnies.
  • Soriano draws foul in post play against Sanogo.
  • Soriano hits FT line extended jumper over Clingan. Johnnies up 13
  • Fast break 2 on 1. Hawkins soft reach And-1.
  • Posh falls down. Diarra goes to help/try to steal and then Posh gets up and cuts behind him for layup.
  • 1:43 left, game is basically over. We start fouling. They get a dunk at some point.
There's a misconception that they were driving right by us 1v1 or using PnR screens and getting all the way to the rim in the 2nd half. Not really the case. Marquette was doing that, but they're an elite PnR team with the Kolek/Ighodaro duo. St. John's not so much. Happened a few times, but...

Transition buckets - 5
Midrange jumpers, floaters, and runners from 8+ feet - 5
Cuts - 3
Zone positioning/gambling errors - 3
Dribble or PnR penetration for bucket or that draws foul - 3
Post ups/oreb hook shots - 2
Fouls outside the 3 point arc or other end - 2

None of this is really a systemic problem aside from our turnovers leading to free points for them and a systemic lack of focus. The cuts were in all cases mental errors. Zone errors were using a D system we weren't masters of and being overly aggressive trying to make something happen while losing. Midrange shots were slight 1v1 D problems (but not to extent of letting a guy get to the rim) or shots made against good D. Some fouls will always happen.

That narrative game log, coupled with what we saw on offense, just screams a team that played with an [uncharacteristic] lack of focus and intensity. Not a team whose gameplans are so horrible that we need to burn the playbook and start anew.

We can speculate for days as to why/how a team who had lost 3 of 4 leading up to that SJU game comes out and lays such a spectacular egg on their home court, but we'll likely never know for sure.

Saturday was the start of move-in for Spring semester. Hurley & Co were away in Springfield. Did some of the guys have too much fun Saturday night? Who knows, but it's possible. The Women's team also played pretty badly right after them and Azzi re-injured her knee. Did someone forget to burn the sage to appease the XL Center evil spirits?

What's most important is that the coaches/players need to reflect and figure it out ASAP. Honestly, I think overthinking and radical changes are a trap at this point. Would endorse a 1-2 personnel tweaks.

Only about 1 day until another tough away game in a hostile environment. We're still ranked, so the number on our back is still large.
 
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Remember when Calhoun had a goal for his teams to limit opponents to under 40 percent? If UConn was doing that they would've only lost one game most likely (Providence)

Why UConn is losing games? Simple: it's the defense (losses in bold).

Allow opponent above 50 percent: 0-3
Allow opponent 45-50 percent: 1-0
Allow opponents 40-45 percent: 6-0
Allow opponents below 40 percent: 8-1

Opponents shooting possession:

St. Johns - 51.7 % (L)
Marquette - 50.8% (L)

Creighton - 32.8% (W)
Providence - 36.7% (L)
Xavier - 53.8% (L)

Villanova - 43.1% (W)
G'Town - 45.8% (W)
Butler - 29.6% (W)
LIU - 42.3% (W)
Florida - 30.2% (W)
Ok St - 39.3% (W)
Iowa St - 40.7% (W)
Alabama - 42% (W)
Oregon - 42.6% (W)
Del St - 38.5% (W)
UNCW - 30.9% (W)
Buffalo - 43.1% (W)
Boston U - 34% (W)
Stonehill - 35.6% (W)
Excellent take. This is no doubt what happens in the 2nd half. All losses we were out scored considerable in the 2nd half including St Johns where we tied at halftime. Just amazing we don’t show up after half time and no one acknowledges this what once was our strength. Think about it. Either their coaches gets the players to jack up there intensity or their coaches make adjustments DH is too ignorant to counter……or BOTH. Sickening
 
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The premise for this thread is a complete fiction. Fans are spending energy to explain something which doesn’t exist. We can nitpick the flaws in anyone’s defense because everyon’e game has flaws; no one is perfect. But the recent losses have not been due to major failures by the defense.

There are 2 factors which immediately stand out in these 4 losses.

1) In 3 of them UConn had a high number of turnovers, much higher than their opponent - 21, 16, and 16. Those do not represent defensive failures but are killers to any teams efforts to win games.

2) Two of the 4 losses - Xavier & Marquette - were to two of the best shooting teams in the country. When teams like that shoot over 50% at home, that’s not the sign of a failing defense. It’s simply what they do against everybody. It’s their normal.

There were other factors which contributed to each individual loss:

St. John’s - 21 turnovers vs 10 for SJU.

Marquette - We shot 6-22 (27%) on 3’s. MU shot 84% on FT’s, way above(their normal 70%.

Providence - we shot 22% on 3’s and 52% from the line.

Xavier - We took 15 more shots than Xavier & missed everyone of them! Shot 44% from the line.
 

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