Why did uconn wait so long to join Div1 football?

[huskyrob1]

Kraft used CT as leverage to get the Razor built for just about nothing.

As far as UConn being one of the first teams snatched up during the first raid if we played in a downtown stadium shared by the Patriots...that is Boneyard Fantasy at its finest.

Are you sure of that? OK maybe not the first raid, maybe the second. But come on, I think recruiting alone would have seen a huge uptick playing in palace like that. I hope you're not suggesting that UCONN would still be in the AAC?

 

[huskyrob1]

I don't think Kraft ever had any intention of coming to CT. He played Rowland to get Massachusetts to pony up.

If that's true then he also stabbed Victor Kiam in the back. Him and Kiam had a verbal agreement to bring the team to Hartford.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I hope you're not suggesting that UCONN would still be in the AAC?

That is exactly what I am suggesting.

USF plays in a stadium that hosts the Super Bowl. As does Tulane. Where are they today?

For all of the problems that UMass has, where do they play their home games?

 

[Waquoit]

Kraft used CT as leverage to get the Razor built for just about nothing.

IIRC, he didn't get all that much that he didn't have before. Some added infrastucture investment from the state and some money from the league. Kraft paid for the actual construction of the stadium. Rowland didn't have the project locked down. They couldn't guarentee the thing would be ready for the opening date, that's why the deal fell apart. Relocating the steam plant was a big factor.

 

[Carl Spackler]

That is exactly what I am suggesting.

USF plays in a stadium that hosts the Super Bowl. As does Tulane. Where are they today?

For all of the problems that UMass has, where do they play their home games?

The reality is that UCONN was extended a frigging silver spoon in a gold case, with the opportunity to upgrade into a conference that was included in the newly formed BCS-AQ formula in 1998. No school in the entire country (other than Villanova) was given the same opportunity - until the Big East did it again, for USF, Cincinnati, and Louisville.

That opportunity was extended in 1997, before the creation of the BCS, and it's a real possibility that UCONN never gets the upgrade invite had the BCS and the money around it already been formed in 1997,and the conference would have disintegrated in 1996, as it almost did many times.

The other reality, is that the leadership of the Big East, and the basketball schools at the time, including UCONN, didn't really appreciate how incredible the opportunity was (aside basically from Lew Perkins, and handful of other folks). The upgrade, at UCONN, by the vast majority of UCONN people, right up until the Big East conference was finally killed, was always looked at as a way to "save and protect" the basketball programs. That's how Lew was able to sell it. IF leadership across the board, had understood just how valueable football really is, things would have moved much quicker than they did with the upgrade, and basketball would never have entered the discussion.

It is what it is. The stadium was designed to built on campus, and was very close to ground breaking construction on campus before local politics got is shut down, and if not for John Rowland's activism to get the East Hartford site back to life in the state legislature...the upgrade goes dead as of 2001, and we most likely playing football in the CAA now.

 

[huskyrob1]

IIRC, he didn't get all that much that he didn't have before. Some added infrastucture investment from the state and some money from the league. Kraft paid for the actual construction of the stadium. Rowland didn't have the project locked down. They couldn't guarentee the thing would be ready for the opening date, that's why the deal fell apart. Relocating the steam plant was a big factor.

That's the way I remember it, except that Rowland tried to lock it down but the legislature dragging their feet is what really killed it.

 

[jackl]

How in the world do you figure that?

The Dept. would have been too complex/big for him to oversee. It would have demanded someone like a Perkins or Jurich to drive the ship full time. We would not have been a stepping stone.

 

[huskyrob1]

The reality is that UCONN was extended a frigging silver spoon in a gold case, with the opportunity to upgrade into a conference that was included in the newly formed BCS-AQ formula in 1998. No school in the entire country (other than Villanova) was given the same opportunity - until the Big East did it again, for USF, Cincinnati, and Louisville.

That opportunity was extended in 1997, before the creation of the BCS, and it's a real possibility that UCONN never gets the upgrade invite had the BCS and the money around it already been formed in 1997,and the conference would have disintegrated in 1996, as it almost did many times.

The other reality, is that the leadership of the Big East, and the basketball schools at the time, including UCONN, didn't really appreciate how incredible the opportunity was (aside basically from Lew Perkins, and handful of other folks). The upgrade, at UCONN, by the vast majority of UCONN people, right up until the Big East conference was finally killed, was always looked at as a way to "save and protect" the basketball programs. That's how Lew was able to sell it. IF leadership across the board, had understood just how valueable football really is, things would have moved much quicker than they did with the upgrade, and basketball would never have entered the discussion.

It is what it is. The stadium was designed to built on campus, and was very close to ground breaking construction on campus before local politics got is shut down, and if not for John Rowland's activism to get the East Hartford site back to life in the state legislature...the upgrade goes dead as of 2001, and we most likely playing football in the CAA now.

Good point. Always thought that's why Perkins left UCONN.

 

[SubbaBub]

I don't think Kraft ever had any intention of coming to CT. He played Rowland to get Massachusetts to pony up.

Rowland was in on it. The fake paper signing and all.

Not a finger was lifted to prepare for any of the work that south end stadium site would have required in the 24 month time frame being thrown around.

 

[freescooter]

Before 1978 (I think was the correct date, might have been 76 or 77) there was much less of a hard line between "big time" and non-big time football. The NCAA classified teams as University Division and College Division. UConn was College Division, but the line was crossed a fair amount and was sort of fuzzy at the margins. As I noted (and by the way coachcap is wrong, UConn did consider an upgrade in the mid-70s) what eventually made up the bulk of the Patriot League, Holy Cross, Colgate, Lehigh, Laffayette, Bucknell, as well as the Ivy league were all University Division and were originally included in Division 1A when it was first established. That was the group of schools UConn hoped to join. They mostly played each other and the Ivies but it wasn't too surprising to see Colgate, for example, show up on Penn State's schedule (1980) or Syracuse's schedule (1982). They regularly played Rutgers. William & Mary, another one of those borderline programs regularly played a couple of ACC opponents, Pitt, Navy, Army, along with its traditional rivals like James Madison and Richmond. The reclassification went into effect in 1981 and all those programs ended up being moved to 1AA. That was really when the hard and fast line went into effect.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Before 1978 (I think was the correct date, might have been 76 or 77) there was much less of a hard line between "big time" and non-big time football. The NCAA classified teams as University Division and College Division. UConn was College Division, but the line was crossed a fair amount and was sort of fuzzy at the margins. As I noted (and by the way coachcap is wrong, UConn did consider an upgrade in the mid-70s) what eventually made up the bulk of the Patriot League, Holy Cross, Colgate, Lehigh, Laffayette, Bucknell, as well as the Ivy league were all University Division and were originally included in Division 1A when it was first established. That was the group of schools UConn hoped to join. They mostly played each other and the Ivies but it wasn't too surprising to see Colgate, for example, show up on Penn State's schedule (1980) or Syracuse's schedule (1982). They regularly played Rutgers. William & Mary, another one of those borderline programs regularly played a couple of ACC opponents, Pitt, Navy, Army, along with its traditional rivals like James Madison and Richmond. The reclassification went into effect in 1981 and all those programs ended up being moved to 1AA. That was really when the hard and fast line went into effect.

This is close to my understanding. BASed on memory, haven't read up on any of this in a long time, it was the early 1970s when the "university" and "college" divisions of football ended. UCONN was considered "college" and not "university", and the division was basically based on (much like now) what schools would be invited to post season bowl games that existed at the time. There were many, many independents in college football in what became division 1.

I think it was 1973 when divisions 1, 2 and 3 were created, and they were all created based on football budgets really. If I remember correctly, the Yankee Conference stayed classified as division 1 (which is where I think coachcap was wrong), and Vermont was the first to bow out, unable to meet the financial football requirements. It was during this time that all of the eastern based programs you mention were trying to figure out what the hell to do with their programs, and how to schedule and align themselves.

The thought process of further dividing division 1 into 1-AA was the solution for all those programs you mention. I believe that the Yankee Conference would have remained division 1A as well as the Ivy's IF - in the creation of 1-AA football, the clause was not inserted that mandated a minimum stadium seating requirement. That statement was put in there, advocated for, by Joe Paterno. By getting that statement in, to the classification criteria for 1A football, in one quick move, Paterno eliminated the entire Ivy League (except for Yale with the Yale Bowl) and essentially every other northeastern/atlantic football program other than PSU, Syracuse and Boston College. It's not coincidence that Paterno's first national chamiponships came after being able to recruit the northeast, after 1978.

Yale hung on to 1A status until 1983 I believe, when they were basically presented with the optinos of either leaving the Ivy league, or down grading. I believe Yale was a top 25 program in 1982.

The Yankee conference stopped functioning as an all sports league at about the same time, and became a 1-AA league for football only, and Toner, as stated, was more than happy to have UCONN classified 1-AA football.

The Big EAst basketball conference was formed in 1979, as all kinds of schools in the northeast were looking for homes for their sports, and UCONN found a home there, and the Big East started all sports in I believe 1983 as well. (except football) - and infamously voted to keep Penn State out..........and begrudgingly formed a football conference in 1991, when Syracuse, BC, PItt were ready to leave and join the Metro Conference as a new Raycom sponsored 16 team conference.

BY 1993, there were only 3 independants left in college football, if I'm not mistaken, down from about 30 independants in 1989.

All happening because of what happened around the TV money around college football in 1984-85, while the Big East basketball leadership had their heads in clouds with the 1984-1985 season and final four.

 

[RedSoloCup]

Rowland was in on it. The fake paper signing and all.

Not a finger was lifted to prepare for any of the work that south end stadium site would have required in the 24 month time frame being thrown around.

If I remember correctly, Kraft was using CT as a lever for concessions from MA.

Not sure if the shady dealings alluded to above happened, but when Rowland called the "put up or shut up" meeting/ press conference, that is when Kraft closed out the options and went full tilt in MA. I remember being on the of the REALLY pissed people that had hoped for season tickets...

I also seem to remember a mad scramble to continue the downtown stadium with a smaller footprint. At the last minute UTC/Pratt was able to donate property to make it happen, saving themselves a lot of money in taxes and looking good in the process.

God that makes me feel old.

 

[NYCHusky]

Interesting read on where an on-campus stadium would have been on North Campus. I for one still think it was a big mistake not having the stadium in Storrs. Would have changed the whole campus.

http://articles.courant.com/1997-10...-storrs-campus-demolition-of-memorial-stadium

 

[HawkHusky]

Interesting read on where an on-campus stadium would have been on North Campus. I for one still think it was a big mistake not having the stadium in Storrs. Would have changed the whole campus.

http://articles.courant.com/1997-10...-storrs-campus-demolition-of-memorial-stadium

IMO, the big mistake was not extending the highway out to Storrs for easy access to the campus.

 

[SubbaBub]

If I remember correctly, Kraft was using CT as a lever for concessions from MA.

Not sure if the shady dealings alluded to above happened, but when Rowland called the "put up or shut up" meeting/ press conference, that is when Kraft closed out the options and went full tilt in MA. I remember being on the of the REALLY pissed people that had hoped for season tickets...

I also seem to remember a mad scramble to continue the downtown stadium with a smaller footprint. At the last minute UTC/Pratt was able to donate property to make it happen, saving themselves a lot of money in taxes and looking good in the process.

God that makes me feel old.

It did. At the time, I would have been involved in the preparations for the site and associated infrastructure development.

There was that glossy rendering on the front page of the Courant, the "contract" signing and the sound of chirping crickets. I knew then it was a farce. Of it were real, there would have been a lot of background planning or at least spitballing an approach to get this done. If you recall, the timeframe to build was very short.

Of course it didn't stop my brother from sending in his $100 deposit. But, he was always the more gullible one.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

IMO, the big mistake was not extending the highway out to Storrs for easy access to the campus.

This. 384 needed to be extended closer to campus. Like PSU did.

 

[Carl Spackler]

This. 384 needed to be extended closer to campus. Like PSU did.

Agreed. FWIW: I-84 was originally supposed to go Hartford to Providence. Then 384 was supposed to go to Providence. Both would have been better routes to Storrs than the current I-84 to 195, or any other route. I don't know why the highways were never extended to Providence, although it would seem that it was probably something that had to do with Rhode Island government more than CT I think.

As for the current I-84, you're not really old unless you can remember signs like this when heading north of Hartford.

First time I ever visited the Storrs campus, the road that you took north of Hartford was labeled Interstate 86, not 84.

 

[06029]

I don't think Kraft ever had any intention of coming to CT. He played Rowland to get Massachusetts to pony up.

I was at the rally at the Old State House for the Pats when the "deal" was announced. My buddy looked at me and said"when pigs fly will the Pats leave the Boston area." Kraft had Rowland dreaming huge at that time and he played him really well to get exactly what he needed from MA and Foxboro. Without Rowland, Patriot Place, which is actually making the Kraft family a lot of money, would have never been built.

 

[06029]

John Rowland did or tried to do more good things for this state than any Gov I can remember. He was basically a great gov who let power make him feel he could do nothing wrong. Did he deserve prison time? Yes, but he learned his lesson, read his bio.

Did he update it for his latest problem? Taking money as a "consultant" to Apple Health Care while the guys' wife was actually using him as a consultant she ran for office? The Apple guy (name escapes me, he owned the Hartford ABA team once) has cut a deal with the Feds to cooperate.

 

[06029]

Agreed. FWIW: I-84 was originally supposed to go Hartford to Providence. Then 384 was supposed to go to Providence. Both would have been better routes to Storrs than the current I-84 to 195, or any other route. I don't know why the highways were never extended to Providence, although it would seem that it was probably something that had to do with Rhode Island government more than CT I think.
View attachment 5113

Not really. CT spent a lot of money siting the extensions through Bolton/Coventry and then to the RI border complete with intersection with the then CT Turnpike (now part of I-395) in Danielson. Biggest impediment was in the Coventry to Willi stretch. Lots of wetlands involved and the Army Corps of Engineers never gave sign off to the final route. There was also a ton of eminent domain issues with something like 85+ residential homes and farms that were needed. Severe wetalnds issues in eastern CT too but not as many homes impacted. Several alternate plans were floated but never followed thru on when it became clear that a direct interstate to RI was not all that important.

 

[junglehusky]

John Rowland did or tried to do more good things for this state than any Gov I can remember. He was basically a great gov who let power make him feel he could do nothing wrong. Did he deserve prison time? Yes, but he learned his lesson, read his bio.

Learned his lesson so well, he is once again being investigated by the FBI for campaign finance violations. Yeah, I'm sure that whole born again thing wasn't just an act or anything. /sarcasm

 

[Buzzyboy]

John Rowland did or tried to do more good things for this state than any Gov I can remember. He was basically a great gov who let power make him feel he could do nothing wrong. Did he deserve prison time? Yes, but he learned his lesson, read his bio.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Rowland was anything but what you portray him to be.

 

[Pudge]

You certainly can make a strong case that we MIGHT have been upgraded to a higher P5 conference if we had started D1 (begat FBS Big East) football in 1991. Those 12 years could have made a huge difference ... when parallel to our success in Hoop and growth as a University.

Why kill ourselves with the Hypothetical though?

 

[Duncan Idaho]

This is close to my understanding. BASed on memory, haven't read up on any of this in a long time, it was the early 1970s when the "university" and "college" divisions of football ended. UCONN was considered "college" and not "university", and the division was basically based on (much like now) what schools would be invited to post season bowl games that existed at the time. There were many, many independents in college football in what became division 1.

I think it was 1973 when divisions 1, 2 and 3 were created, and they were all created based on football budgets really. If I remember correctly, the Yankee Conference stayed classified as division 1 (which is where I think coachcap was wrong), and Vermont was the first to bow out, unable to meet the financial football requirements. It was during this time that all of the eastern based programs you mention were trying to figure out what the hell to do with their programs, and how to schedule and align themselves.

The thought process of further dividing division 1 into 1-AA was the solution for all those programs you mention. I believe that the Yankee Conference would have remained division 1A as well as the Ivy's IF - in the creation of 1-AA football, the clause was not inserted that mandated a minimum stadium seating requirement. That statement was put in there, advocated for, by Joe Paterno. By getting that statement in, to the classification criteria for 1A football, in one quick move, Paterno eliminated the entire Ivy League (except for Yale with the Yale Bowl) and essentially every other northeastern/atlantic football program other than PSU, Syracuse and Boston College. It's not coincidence that Paterno's first national chamiponships came after being able to recruit the northeast, after 1978.

Yale hung on to 1A status until 1983 I believe, when they were basically presented with the optinos of either leaving the Ivy league, or down grading. I believe Yale was a top 25 program in 1982.

The Yankee conference stopped functioning as an all sports league at about the same time, and became a 1-AA league for football only, and Toner, as stated, was more than happy to have UCONN classified 1-AA football.

The Big EAst basketball conference was formed in 1979, as all kinds of schools in the northeast were looking for homes for their sports, and UCONN found a home there, and the Big East started all sports in I believe 1983 as well. (except football) - and infamously voted to keep Penn State out.....and begrudgingly formed a football conference in 1991, when Syracuse, BC, PItt were ready to leave and join the Metro Conference as a new Raycom sponsored 16 team conference.

BY 1993, there were only 3 independants left in college football, if I'm not mistaken, down from about 30 independants in 1989.

All happening because of what happened around the TV money around college football in 1984-85, while the Big East basketball leadership had their heads in clouds with the 1984-1985 season and final four.

We were classified Division II in football prior to IAA Edit; and after the College Division classification.

Again, Most of the Ivies had the stadiums to meet at the time the 30k seating requirement.
Those included Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, Penn. Cornell was slightly under at 26k but could have gone to 30k I think no problem. Syracuse played there a bit when the dome was being built. The rest of the schools to meet the 30k in the east were WVU, Syracuse, Rutgers, BC, Pitt, Temple(Yes they had 30k+ with a temporary seat waiver) Army, Navy and PSU.

To Freescooter's point, we had very good OOC's back then. In'79 we opened with Army, Navy, Yale, and Rutgers( began upgrading their schedule about then). We also played a good Delaware a lot and Lehigh when they were very very good. I think we won Yankee conference championships with losing overall records in the 80's.

 

[uconnbill]

That's the way I remember it, except that Rowland tried to lock it down but the legislature dragging their feet is what really killed it.

Barbara Kennelly and a few others didn't want it.

I do believe that Kraft was never going to come to Connecticut though and just wanted Massachusetts to pony up the new stadium. Unlike Jimmy I believe that if the Patriots came to Connecticut, UCONN would be in the ACC right now.