Which school will be next to get a P5 invite?

[Marty Jackson]

What I do know is that there is no expansion talk by the B1G and ACC. The SEC isn't even sniffing.

""As long as a conference can make more money per school through addition, they will expand. That means schools need to be available that can raise the per diem."" Exactly my point!

Great. And you know that because...

 

[Gfunk]

UVA to the B1G was a rumour made up by overzealous conf expansion nuts. Unlike their "simpler" cousins to the north, UVA is quite satisfied in the ACC and values playing the UNC and Duke's of the ACC.

Uconn is a tough one, on one hand we already have BC (sadly) and Cuse in the region so how much more can you get from TV with those already there. On the other hand, unless we steal a SEC or B12 team (highly unlikely on both unless Texas leaves the B12) Uconn and Cincy are the only viable targets left.
USF will NEVER be a ACC target unless FSU leaves. FSU already plays Miami and Florida so they have plenty of FL company. They would block USF like Florida blocks them from the SEC.

****
****

Exactly! Don't fall for the propaganda and expansion wishes of certain BIG fans, esp on Frank the Tank, and esp not the WVa nutcases. There are simply too many elitists types over on FTT, many forecasting all kinds of gloom and doom predictions of the ACC & a tad too much confidence certain schools would bolt. Why? Because Md, a school who long ago flirted with the BIG finally bolted. But that's really all folks. Md, culturally speaking, has long been more northern than southern. Some may argue Va is shedding its southern ties, but no so fast. Outside NoVA and college towns, it's still a proud southern state. Most of the "doom to ACC' BIG fans, and I'm quite willing to bet the farm on it, have little experience living in ACC land and observing the football-basketball traditions. The latter being something no other p5 conference can truly boast.

Regardless of AAU, football centric and provincial minded BIG types, I believe there is an underrated emphasis BIG administrators-leaders place on basketball. You're not going to glean any data on Frank the Tank that underscores this basketball emphasis - most the BIG folks on FTT are about the money and football prestige (well not that the BIG has really delivered on the gridiron the past 40 years, though its the second best conference when it comes to NFL talent). In basketball, the conference has straight up choked in too many NCG's the past 20 years, which should not happen considering the prep high school talent in the the footprint, which only gets better with Md and NJ being added in 2014. In terms of NC's per FF appearances, the BIG is likely dead last among the P5. Therefore, UConn is an attractive option. I also believe UConn has tremendous upside in terms of a public flagship university - due to talented k-12 students and state investment - as well as more influence, basketball wise, on the NYC market than given credit for.

Inevitably, some at the BIG offices will wake up and realize winning NCs, esp in football and basketball, is important enough to bypass the pretensions of AAU status and football centric thinking. As for the BIG profit motive, that may be hurting UConn until more proof exists that UConn can better help seal the NYC media market. A tough issue. It's also a major strike against UConn that your football program is young and the stadium is not only off campus, but even smaller than Northwestern's stadium - which is dead last in the BIG, though only by 3 thousand seats or so. I think the Rent, or whatever you call it, seats 7 thousand less than Northwestern.

BIG expansion could include some ACC schools, never say never. But, my gut says the Big12 is next - it simply makes far more sense than the ACC in terms of national geography. The Big12's media markets are overall small and its schools sit at the crossroads of the Pac12, BIG and SEC. The BIG has a better chance at landing at least 1 basketball king and perhaps 2 football kings via the Big12. AAU status, I'd take OU and Tx football over any ACC school. I'd also prefer KU basketball over UNC - even better a KU -UConn combo counters UNC by a country mile. I've said it before, I'll say it again - the BIG would be foolish not to take Tx, OU, UConn and KU to get to 18. Going with this combo would be easier than peeling off even one ACC school at this point, Va likely being the best target of low odds candidates.

The ACC will survive and they should, there needs to be a conference capable of shaking up the SEC in football once in a while. Problem is, the ACC has been shockingly incompetent on breaking the SEC's monopoly on the Southeast, despite expansions that brought in Miami & Va Tech. The jury is still out whether ND, partial schedule and rising Lville can help the ACC in football.

Lastly, it's quite obvious the ACC and ND have a strong future together, most cases. The number of ND alum in powerful positions throughout the ACC needs to come to light here- it's vast & simply exceeds the Midwest.

So Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, it's quite possible ND could fully join the ACC. Their national alum network would prefer to be in a conference with more elite, private institutions and a better football recruiting footprint. Also, never underestimate schools such as Pitt, BC, Miami and GT - they all have history with ND. In fact ND has played Pitt more than Michigan & nearly as many times as Michigan State & Purdue. They've played BC, Miami and GT, each, at least 20 times, some over 30 times. GT and Miami give ND something the BIG does not, media branding in two of the 5 best prep high school football states. Case closed on Frank, to all others thinking UConn has a better shot at the ACC than the BIG & finally those who think ND is somehow never going to fully join a conference - truly naive to think such.

The ACC would like nothing better than sticking it to the BIG and getting yet another school within the BIG footprint - ND and Pitt already happened. I see Cincy to the Big12 or ACC happening soon, and even faster if they can assure their suitors that their stadium will inevitably seat at least 45k. No reason why Ohio can't have two marquee football programs. Cincy should stick it to OSU and get into the ACC or Big12. But hopefully, the BIG can pick off OU, KU and Tx first, then throw in UConn

 

[billybud]

Belief doesn't come into what I'm saying at all.

I used numbers and that's it.

1. UConn's licensing and tier3 revenue: $24.8m
2. SNY's jump in Connecticut from $1.60 per subscriber to $2.50 after adding UConn
3. All the state's cable systems adding SNY to Basic cable after adding UConn.

I also gave you a link showing how the UConn women bumped a Syracuse men's bball game against Providence off of SNY. There's a lot of other anecdotal stuff like that, like UConn sports events being the highest rated shows not only on cable, but also broadcast television as well during primetime.

You are not going to like what I have to say...and it is only a southerner's opinion...

But UConn doesn't make a trembler in the national football web that I know. A regional brand at most. And in a region where college football is not a major draw.

Nationally, the northeast is out in the hinterlands of college football...the midwest, the south, Texas and Oklahoma and on the Pacific coast is where college football lives. Alabama, LSU, Texas, FSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Southern Cal, Stanford....not UConn, Rutgers, Boston College, Massachusetts.

There is not a lot that UConn can do about that. The northeast does have great basketball traditions and Madison Square Garden.

There are many areas that impact the decision to invite a new college partner...internal conference politics, conference culture, TV partner input, etc.

Folks forget that Shalala earned her Ph. D. from Syracuse and that Miami wanted Syracuse rather than VT way back in the day. Miami has been a Syracuse ally. FSU is a partner of Miami's and often supports Miami (and vice versa) in ACC politics.

FSU was a strong supporter of adding Louisville after Miami got Cuse...and Miami. GT, VT, Clemson, and BC supported FSU.

 

[upstater]

You are not going to like what I have to say...and it is only a southerner's opinion...

But UConn doesn't make a trembler in the national football web that I know. A regional brand at most. And in a region where college football is not a major draw.

Nationally, the northeast is out in the hinterlands of college football...the midwest, the south, Texas and Oklahoma and on the Pacific coast is where college football lives. Alabama, LSU, Texas, FSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Southern Cal, Stanford....not UConn, Rutgers, Boston College, Massachusetts.

There is not a lot that UConn can do about that. The northeast does have great basketball traditions and Madison Square Garden.

There are many areas that impact the decision to invite a new college partner...internal conference politics, conference culture, TV partner input, etc.

Folks forget that Shalala earned her Ph. D. from Syracuse and that Miami wanted Syracuse rather than VT way back in the day. Miami has been a Syracuse ally. FSU is a partner of Miami's and often supports Miami (and vice versa) in ACC politics.

FSU was a strong supporter of adding Louisville after Miami got Cuse...and Miami. GT, VT, Clemson, and BC supported FSU.

Why would I not like what you have to say? I've said the same things many times.

We were having a discussion though about TV markets and revenues and value. You are pretty shortsighted though when it comes to football because there is talent up here. Uconn has a .500 record against the ACC (i.e. non old BE teams). It had a winning record against those BE teams. As well, it puts more players in the NFL than FSU's favorite Louisville. Regardless, Syracuse is not the only one with connections down there. Virginia has UConn people.

Look, UConn was tipped to go before Pitt. When BC's AD blackballed UConn in committee, Pitt was the fallback. ND and UConn were then talked about as a package (in 2011). When BC's AD opened up to the newspaper about how ESPN was behind everything, he sunk it. Including the addition of ND in 2011.

 

[billybud]

I can only tell you that FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT, and VT were adamantly against Coach K's and Williams' push to add UConn for basketball prowess...

Like the old BE..there has been some conference politics and friction between basketball forward and the football forward schools...basketball brought in more TV money until about ten years ago and the ACC took a while to accept the new world order...but football is now 80% of the TV funding and the power in the ACC is shifting.

 

[upstater]

I can only tell you that FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT, and VT were adamantly against Coach K's and Williams' push to add UConn for basketball prowess...

Like the old BE..there has been some conference politics and friction between basketball forward and the football forward schools...basketball brought in more TV money until about ten years ago and the ACC took a while to accept the new world order...but football is now 80% of the TV funding and the power in the ACC is shifting.

It had more to do with FSU's threats than anything else. That's how the power tilted. Even Jurich said so. "They weren't penciled in, they were penned in."

 

[d1reality]

Great. And you know that because...

because...It is currently true, anything else is speculation, conjecture and more accurately pipe dreams.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You are not going to like what I have to say...and it is only a southerner's opinion...

But UConn doesn't make a trembler in the national football web that I know. A regional brand at most. And in a region where college football is not a major draw.

Nationally, the northeast is out in the hinterlands of college football...the midwest, the south, Texas and Oklahoma and on the Pacific coast is where college football lives. Alabama, LSU, Texas, FSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Southern Cal, Stanford....not UConn, Rutgers, Boston College, Massachusetts.

There is not a lot that UConn can do about that. The northeast does have great basketball traditions and Madison Square Garden.

There are many areas that impact the decision to invite a new college partner...internal conference politics, conference culture, TV partner input, etc.

Folks forget that Shalala earned her Ph. D. from Syracuse and that Miami wanted Syracuse rather than VT way back in the day. Miami has been a Syracuse ally. FSU is a partner of Miami's and often supports Miami (and vice versa) in ACC politics.

FSU was a strong supporter of adding Louisville after Miami got Cuse...and Miami. GT, VT, Clemson, and BC supported FSU.

This board is catnip for trolls.

 

[d1reality]

Why would I not like what you have to say? I've said the same things many times.

We were having a discussion though about TV markets and revenues and value. You are pretty shortsighted though when it comes to football because there is talent up here. Uconn has a .500 record against the ACC (i.e. non old BE teams). It had a winning record against those BE teams. As well, it puts more players in the NFL than FSU's favorite Louisville. Regardless, Syracuse is not the only one with connections down there. Virginia has UConn people.

Look, UConn was tipped to go before Pitt. When BC's AD blackballed UConn in committee, Pitt was the fallback. ND and UConn were then talked about as a package (in 2011). When BC's AD opened up to the newspaper about how ESPN was behind everything, he sunk it. Including the addition of ND in 2011.

You can speculate who blackballed who, what politics played a role, but I don't think anyone on this board was in that room. So I give little credence to anyone attempting to speak with authority as to what may have happened.

What did happen was the ACC made its business decision for the good of their conference, and UConn wasn't that choice.

You can slice and cherry pick ratings and sub fees, but the guys closest to it saw it differently.

 

[d1reality]

Why would I not like what you have to say? I've said the same things many times.

We were having a discussion though about TV markets and revenues and value. You are pretty shortsighted though when it comes to football because there is talent up here. Uconn has a .500 record against the ACC (i.e. non old BE teams). It had a winning record against those BE teams. As well, it puts more players in the NFL than FSU's favorite Louisville. Regardless, Syracuse is not the only one with connections down there. Virginia has UConn people.

Look, UConn was tipped to go before Pitt. When BC's AD blackballed UConn in committee, Pitt was the fallback. ND and UConn were then talked about as a package (in 2011). When BC's AD opened up to the newspaper about how ESPN was behind everything, he sunk it. Including the addition of ND in 2011.

"""Uconn has a .500 record against the ACC (i.e. non old BE teams)."""

Since when, I don't think you can even get close to this with the best cherry picking!!!

 

[Adios]

You are not going to like what I have to say...and it is only a southerner's opinion...

But UConn doesn't make a trembler in the national football web that I know. A regional brand at most. And in a region where college football is not a major draw.

Nationally, the northeast is out in the hinterlands of college football...the midwest, the south, Texas and Oklahoma and on the Pacific coast is where college football lives. Alabama, LSU, Texas, FSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Southern Cal, Stanford....not UConn, Rutgers, Boston College, Massachusetts.

There is not a lot that UConn can do about that. The northeast does have great basketball traditions and Madison Square Garden.

There are many areas that impact the decision to invite a new college partner...internal conference politics, conference culture, TV partner input, etc.

Folks forget that Shalala earned her Ph. D. from Syracuse and that Miami wanted Syracuse rather than VT way back in the day. Miami has been a Syracuse ally. FSU is a partner of Miami's and often supports Miami (and vice versa) in ACC politics.

FSU was a strong supporter of adding Louisville after Miami got Cuse...and Miami. GT, VT, Clemson, and BC supported FSU.

Stanford? Are you serious? Stanford finished the season ranked 7 times in the last 33 years. WTF?

 

[d1reality]

Stanford? Are you serious? Stanford finished the season ranked 7 times in the last 33 years. WTF?

At 35-5 over the last 3 seasons, and ranked #5 right now, they are a national brand and people are watching.

This is not your father's Stanford.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You can speculate who blackballed who, what politics played a role, but I don't think anyone on this board was in that room. So I give little credence to anyone attempting to speak with authority as to what may have happened.

What did happen was the ACC made its business decision for the good of their conference, and UConn wasn't that choice.

You can slice and cherry pick ratings and sub fees, but the guys closest to it saw it differently.

This board is out of control with trolls.

 

[billybud]

You can speculate who blackballed who, what politics played a role, but I don't think anyone on this board was in that room. So I give little credence to anyone attempting to speak with authority as to what may have happened.

What did happen was the ACC made its business decision for the good of their conference, and UConn wasn't that choice.

You can slice and cherry pick ratings and sub fees, but the guys closest to it saw it differently.

I surely wasn't in the room.

But, I was sort of "in the room" in the early 2000's when the ACC made those expansion decisions..(I retired from FSU in 2005). I provided BOT support and legislative support and lobbying and was privy to the ACC conference calls of the time. While I still have personal contacts with some board members and former work friends, there is a code that one does not ask if info is not offered. But my guess on what has transpired is as educated as anyone's who was not actually "in the room".

 

[upstater]

"""Uconn has a .500 record against the ACC (i.e. non old BE teams)."""

Since when, I don't think you can even get close to this with the best cherry picking!!!

We looked this up a while ago. UConn demolished Virginia something like 45-10 a while back, but it also beat Duke, Wake Forest, Maryland, while taking losses to UNC, NC State, Wake and Georgia Tech. UConn hasn't played clemson and Florida St.

 

[upstater]

You can speculate who blackballed who, what politics played a role, but I don't think anyone on this board was in that room. So I give little credence to anyone attempting to speak with authority as to what may have happened.

What did happen was the ACC made its business decision for the good of their conference, and UConn wasn't that choice.

You can slice and cherry pick ratings and sub fees, but the guys closest to it saw it differently.

There is no speculation needed. The principals were quoted. You're wrong.

 

[upstater]

I surely wasn't in the room.

But, I was sort of "in the room" in the early 2000's when the ACC made those expansion decisions..(I retired from FSU in 2005). I provided BOT support and legislative support and lobbying and was privy to the ACC conference calls of the time. While I still have personal contacts with some board members and former work friends, there is a code that one does not ask if info is not offered. But my guess on what has transpired is as educated as anyone's who was not actually "in the room".

We're not talking about early 2000s though when UConn football wasn't even in a conference yet.

 

[d1reality]

We looked this up a while ago. UConn demolished Virginia something like 45-10 a while back, but it also beat Duke, Wake Forest, Maryland, while taking losses to UNC, NC State, Wake and Georgia Tech. UConn hasn't played clemson and Florida St.

Look it up again before calling anybody wrong.

Since 2002 UConn is 5-10 vs. ACC (non-BE).

Deal with the facts and maybe we can put some credence in any of your other ramblings.

 

[d1reality]

There is no speculation needed. The principals were quoted. You're wrong.

Since 2002 UConn is 5-10 vs. ACC (non-BE).

 

[HuskyHawk]

The reality of UConn's records, good or bad, doesn't matter. What matters is the perception that we're a bunch of feeble New Englanders who wouldn't know an oblong ball on a Saturday if it bit us in the ass. Hell, we're so backward that we still play high school football on Saturday. That's what I believe the south and midwest feel about UConn. That isn't going to change quickly, and isn't going to change if we get our asses handed to us by Towson at home. Yes, we beat South Carolina once, before they became a real power in the SEC and Notre Dame when they were down. But the next person who mentions beating Virginia or Maryland as a major high point for UConn should slap themselves...hard. Virginia sucks and Maryland is just barely above that.

To do list: Win and go to a bowl game, year after year. Win those bowl games at a 50% clip. Play tough, nasty defense (we have done this). Get the state to move frigging high school football to Friday nights...please. Create an atmosphere where on game day every employee at McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts, BK and elsewhere (at least east of Hartford) wears UConn garb to work. I want visiting fans to come into East Hartford and see a unified community. This is the stuff that changes perceptions. It's what you get in the south and midwest and what they expect of any real program.

 

[larryredbull]

This board is out of control with trolls.

So differing opinions=trolls. Got it

 

[SubbaBub]

So differing opinions=trolls. Got it

Ignorant and belligerent Larrycomelately = trolls.

 

[Broman]

From a UC fan here.

1) We are observing a non-equilibrium environment...if we simply took the 66 best athletic programs weighted towards football, both UC and UConn are in...the problem is that you have a few big programs (tO$U, UT, etc.) that make the majority of money for the conferences.

2) With each conference having vastly differing interests based on their composition, we are ending up in this weird morass where what is "logical" and "what is going to happen" are two distinct things.

3) Geography plays a huge role. IMO, the ACC taking Louisville was a defensive maneuver to prevent the Big 12 from expanding to 12 via UC/UL which would have been decent from a financial standpoint but would have shored up the geography of the B12 (WVU, UC, UL all together). In the interest of self-preservation, they took a horrible cultural fit and even worse academic fit (UCONN > UC (Arts are amazing, Engineering is pretty good, Science is solid...business...yea...)> UL overall academically).

I personally think the B12 would love to take UC/UConn but BYU is a better geographic fit and WVU needs a travel partner (you can fly into Cincinnati, play, drive to WVU, play, and fly out of Pittsburgh).

I hope for your guys sake that I'm right, and that ND is forced to join the ACC and they take UConn as #16 or that Mizzou/UConn to the B1G goes through and UC ends up in the SEC...sports are but a minor part of Universities but I've seen first hand what a good football program has done for UC pride and it would be a shame to lose that because ESPN wanted to play God. So for all of our sakes, let's hope that we both move up soon! Go UC and go UCONN! (oh, and while you are at it...I'm sorry about PP...you guys always scared me on the schedule before he took over).

 

[upstater]

Since 2002 UConn is 5-10 vs. ACC (non-BE).

I'll take your word for it. My mistake. Whoever did the write up had to be referring to record against current ACC teams, includiong Cuse, Louisville, Pitt, Notre Dame would have put UConn at .500.

 

[upstater]

The reality of UConn's records, good or bad, doesn't matter. What matters is the perception that we're a bunch of feeble New Englanders who wouldn't know an oblong ball on a Saturday if it bit us in the ass. Hell, we're so backward that we still play high school football on Saturday. That's what I believe the south and midwest feel about UConn. That isn't going to change quickly, and isn't going to change if we get our asses handed to us by Towson at home. Yes, we beat South Carolina once, before they became a real power in the SEC and Notre Dame when they were down. But the next person who mentions beating Virginia or Maryland as a major high point for UConn should slap themselves...hard. Virginia sucks and Maryland is just barely above that.

To do list: Win and go to a bowl game, year after year. Win those bowl games at a 50% clip. Play tough, nasty defense (we have done this). Get the state to move frigging high school football to Friday nights...please. Create an atmosphere where on game day every employee at McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts, BK and elsewhere (at least east of Hartford) wears UConn garb to work. I want visiting fans to come into East Hartford and see a unified community. This is the stuff that changes perceptions. It's what you get in the south and midwest and what they expect of any real program.

Why do you do this? No one here claimed UConn is excellent at football. Or mediocre.
We claimed we more than held our own against Louisville, Syracuse and Pitt. That's incontrovertible. We claimed we put plenty of talent in the NFL, more than the teams I've listed. Why do those claims bug you?