Where's the outrage over UNC's academic fraud?

[CTHUSKY74]

I continue to be amazed at how UNC is totally "skating" on the the issue of major academic fraud and cheating that led to many athletes remaining eligible to play and contribute to championship teams. First the NCAA accepts the university's position that there was no benefit received by athletics because non-athletes were also involved. Then UNC commissions a study that reviews the fraud in detail and finds that it was a massive academic fraud but limited to one department two administrators and didn't involve wrong-doing by the athletic department or athletes. It seems quite obvious that the crown jewels of athletic participation are being protected here since apparently no research dollars or accreditations hinge on these findings but certainly cheating to keep athletes from failing or maintaining academic progress could have dramatic impacts on tournament dollars, bowl participation etc. After seeing UCONN get slammed with the APR sanctions and tournament ban I have been waiting for the NCAA to do the right thing with UNC, but it has looked the other way. I disagree with the premise that if non-athletes benefitted from the fradulent courses somehow this is not an athletic issue and was not done for the benefit of keeping athletes eligible. If athletes were the main beneficiaries or if the university felt it could not graduate a high percentage of minority students who were athletes without resorting to giveaway grades in a particular department, I find it hard to believe that no other parties at the school were aware of this, involved in setting this up, etc. The "study" didn't get into why this occurred but moreso what happened. Apparently none of the principal parties involoved agreed to share any info so the study used mostly record reviews to base their conclusions on.

Reporters at the Raleigh News and Observer have mostly led the press inquiries about this and they don't believe this report is complete or clears UNC athletics in this matter. The link below offers some insights about what the study looked at.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/12/21/2558292/decock-martin-report-narrow-in.html

I am not an investigator or a lawyer but I feel this matter is far from being fully explored and blame properly placed or sanctions correctly administered. I wonder how many basketball tournament wins were accomplished using players who should have been ineligible and never graduated or deemed to be making acceptable academic progress? Where's the outrage? Maybe we're just numb from the s***storm of bad news that keeps coming our way but somehow in UNC land everything is beautiful!! I'm really tired of the bias against us.

 

[ruskin]

spot on 74. Two things: UNC has a much better PR machine than UConn, and that includes syncophants in the media who loved Dean Smith and thinks his protege Roy Williams is incapable of doing anything wrong and our buddy over at UHart Walter Harrison who had a hand in rigging the APR scoring system knowing it would hurt UConn. We get whacked for players getting bad grades, but UNC skates when their players get passing grades WITHOUT EVEN GOING TO CLASS.

 

[upstater]

Cal. Tech is banned for three years. For what?
Allowing athletes to register for classes 2 weeks into the semester.
That's a university-wide policy that also extends to regular students.

 

[Dooley]

For the life of me, I do not have any idea why the NCAA has been so soft on UNC either. ALOT of people out there, including several media outlets with their own agendas, are quick to judge UConn's 2012 postseason ban for APR scores even though the rule was applied retroactively and the program has since been in EXCELLENT academic standing. But those same people and media outlets who are quick to judge UConn are slow to judge UNC for a larger academic scandal that PURPOSELY deceived the NCAA by skirting around its rules and regulations to ensure their athletes remained eligible to compete. So, in the NCAA's (and the court of public opinion) eyes, the worse academic action:

A few, select men's basketball players with low test scores in a school year that the APR criteria was not in effect > an ENTIRE athletic department purposely deceiving the NCAA by reporting falsified grades from classes that don't exist at UNC so that several athletes from several athletic programs (not just men's basketball) can remain eligible to compete.

I get that the NCAA has always had it out for Jim Calhoun and probably used this opportunity to retroactively punish the program over issues that the court of public opinion and media criticized the NCAA for being too light. But it is VERY interesting to see what battles the NCAA chooses to fight. Jim Calhoun might rub some the wrong way (especially those outside of Connecticut) but does Butch Davis give the NCAA the warm fuzzies??? Scandal follows that guy everywhere he goes like John Calipari and Bobby Petrino.

 

[firstnline]

The media, don't get me going about the media. The best thing anyone can do is not watch the networks that have ANYKIND of bias against Uconn. Therefore I have boycotted the Entertainment and Sports Programming NITWITS. I have been listening to Joe D. this past season.

 

[freescooter]

Cal. Tech is banned for three years. For what?
Allowing athletes to register for classes 2 weeks into the semester.
That's a university-wide policy that also extends to regular students.

You're right about Cal Tech. it is silly and I'm really surprised that the D-3 schools don't make some change, since that policy is fairly common among small liberal arts schools for example. On the other hand, as usual you misstate things. Cal Tech recieved a 1 year post season ban, which was actually self imposed. It recieved 3 years probation. Though when one considers that their baseball team lost 227 straight, and basketball lost 310 in a row and another team, water polo I think went 7 years without a victory, and womens volleyball has never won a conference game the ban was probably more symbolic than real.

 

[upstater]

You're right about Cal Tech. it is silly and I'm really surprised that the D-3 schools don't make some change, since that policy is fairly common among small liberal arts schools for example. On the other hand, as usual you misstate things. Cal Tech recieved a 1 year post season ban, which was actually self imposed. It recieved 3 years probation. Though when one considers that their baseball team lost 227 straight, and basketball lost 310 in a row and another team, water polo I think went 7 years without a victory, and womens volleyball has never won a conference game the ban was probably more symbolic than real.

As usual, you didn't understand the significance of the post. This has nothing to do with what Cal-tech should or shouldn't have done. It has everything to do with the NCAA staying out of UNC affairs because this is supposedly an academic scandal, not an athletic scandal. Think for once in your life!

 

[mattp]

UNC's fraud should not only hurt their NCAA eligibility but rightfully should threaten their entire accreditation. I'm pretty sure handing out diplomas to students that never went to class or took a test is exactly what academic accreditation is supposed to monitor.

 

[B1GEast]

The hypocrisy is just amazing.

 

[Srqhusky]

U realize we could get in trouble by talking about this. Shush

 

[freescooter]

As usual, you didn't understand the significance of the post. This has nothing to do with what Cal-tech should or shouldn't have done. It has everything to do with the NCAA staying out of UNC affairs because this is supposedly an academic scandal, not an athletic scandal. Think for once in your life!

I agree that the NCAA should modify its rules, especially for D3 schools to reflect how they actually work. On the other hand, Cal-Tech self reported so what should the NCAA have done? This was a very different set of circumstances than what you imply. It wasn't some NCAA witch hunt. It wasn't some report form a rogue booster. It was a case where a new AD identified a problem, reported it to the NCAA and self imposed a series of penalties for a rules violation. the NCAA approved them and added probation since you can't put yourself on probation. But you mis-stated the penalty, you implied this was the NCAA sticking its nose in where it doesn't belong. But it didn't. It just responded to a report by the school. Just like the last time you posted on this you claimed it was APR related, despite the fact that APR doesn't apply to D-3 schools. Is it crazy to think that the NCAA went looking for violations at Cal Tech? Sure it is. And they didn't. they simply responded to a case that was brought to them by the school itself. If it shows anything it shows that Cal Tech has integrity and that the NCAA acts reasonably at least in the D3 context.

Beyond that, this was a much more "procedural" violation, something which the NCAA is much better set up to monitor than it is academic "content." The problem there is where do you draw the line? should the NCAA decide that upstater's syllabus is inadequate for English 257 but ok for English 242?

 

[upstater]

I agree that the NCAA should modify its rules, especially for D3 schools to reflect how they actually work. On the other hand, Cal-Tech self reported so what should the NCAA have done? This was a very different set of circumstances than what you imply. It wasn't some NCAA witch hunt. It wasn't some report form a rogue booster. It was a case where a new AD identified a problem, reported it to the NCAA and self imposed a series of penalties for a rules violation. the NCAA approved them and added probation since you can't put yourself on probation. But you mis-stated the penalty, you implied this was the NCAA sticking its nose in where it doesn't belong. But it didn't. It just responded to a report by the school. Just like the last time you posted on this you claimed it was APR related, despite the fact that APR doesn't apply to D-3 schools. Is it crazy to think that the NCAA went looking for violations at Cal Tech? Sure it is. And they didn't. they simply responded to a case that was brought to them by the school itself. If it shows anything it shows that Cal Tech has integrity and that the NCAA acts reasonably at least in the D3 context.

LOL, man, I think everyone else gets what I wrote perfectly. You have an amazing deaf ear for these discussions.

Let me say this again: This has nothing to do with what Cal-Tech should or shouldn't have done. It has everything to do with the NCAA staying out of UNC affairs because this is supposedly an academic scandal, not an athletic scandal.

How much simpler can it get?

 

[freescooter]

And I'm telling you that Cal Tech is totally irrelevant. Totally different set of facts. The NCAA is in a difficult situation with respect to North Carolina because it is put in a position to judge academic content of a class. Do you really want them going there? The proper thing would be for the University to step up, void those fake classes then report itself to the NCAA for failing to meet eligibility requirement. Or some similar process. Unless they do something, I'm not sure there is much the NCAA can or should do unless you want them ruling on whether 2 exams and a paper are sufficient for English 2042 or reviewing every independent study and Sr Thesis for qualilty. It is a problem but it is a problem that really UNC needs to solve internally. For all we know, it is at least possible that some people who took those courses actually did produce papers and so forth. Finally, do you really think that pretty much every D1 school doesn't have at least a couple of 'preferred' faculty members to whom it steers athletes? Hell back in the dark ages, UConn did.everyone in the athletic department knew to take specific classes and not others. I'll bet it still does. I know for a fact Providence does. I'm related to one of them who openly brags at family gatherings about how she gets invited to the basketball coaches' Christmas party as a thanks for dumbing down one section of her math class to insure certain players stay on the court.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

UNC should be reduced to 10 football scholarships and 4 basketball scholarships per season for the next four years. Then banned from the NCAA tourney and the ACC tourney during the fifth season.

 

[mattp]

It has everything to do with the NCAA staying out of UNC affairs because this is supposedly an academic scandal, not an athletic scandal.

How much simpler can it get?

When an academic scandal involves athletes, it's an athletic scandal.

 

[ctchamps]

It's an absolute farce. But so was implementing an APR standard rule and applying it retroactively instead of implementing it starting form the date it was established.

 

[upstater]

And I'm telling you that Cal Tech is totally irrelevant. Totally different set of facts. The NCAA is in a difficult situation with respect to North Carolina because it is put in a position to judge academic content of a class. Do you really want them going there? The proper thing would be for the University to step up, void those fake classes then report itself to the NCAA for failing to meet eligibility requirement. Or some similar process. Unless they do something, I'm not sure there is much the NCAA can or should do unless you want them ruling on whether 2 exams and a paper are sufficient for English 2042 or reviewing every independent study and Sr Thesis for qualilty. It is a problem but it is a problem that really UNC needs to solve internally. For all we know, it is at least possible that some people who took those courses actually did produce papers and so forth. Finally, do you really think that pretty much every D1 school doesn't have at least a couple of 'preferred' faculty members to whom it steers athletes? Hell back in the dark ages, UConn did.everyone in the athletic department knew to take specific classes and not others. I'll bet it still does. I know for a fact Providence does. I'm related to one of them who openly brags at family gatherings about how she gets invited to the basketball coaches' Christmas party as a thanks for dumbing down one section of her math class to insure certain players stay on the court.

Yet again, you don't seem to understand what's happening. UNC has already admitted the courses were fraudulent. There is no academic standard. The NCAA is not stepping in BECAUSE this is a academic issue, not an athletic issue. not to mention the fact that there is lots of evidence that the UNC has thrown its weight around in the past on these issues when it hasn't been involved with athletics.

The idea that you're defending the NCAA's actions on this blows my mind!!!!!!!!

 

[Dann]

we will get docked nother ship next year for this thread by emmert. the whole thing is a huge fail
-the ncaa went on several hunts for dirty things a couple years ago and we were one of the easy targets
-retro punishemnt
-uconn media cna't handle a thing they sucks so bad
-media attacks us seeing no fight from school
-big east falls apart
-media tv contract has been a issue, so espn won't support uconn argument wise if theya r enot the future owner. we have no big backer present as result.
-all the small things that were not done right piled up perception wise

 

[upstater]

When an academic scandal involves athletes, it's an athletic scandal.

Not according to the NCAA.

 

[ruskin]

never has the old Jerry Tarkanian line been proven true more: "the NCAA was so mad at Kentucky it put Cleveland State on two years of probation"

 

[OkaForPrez]

I actually agree with scoot somewhat here in that there is an ambiguity and a burden of proof that can't be put on the NCAA to define what does and does not constitute a class.

However, and I'm not familiar with all the details, if UNC is on the record that at least 1 Current student athlete has been found to have been given a grade for absolutely no work whatsoever, that student should be declared ineligible regardless of the problem extending outside of the athletic community. There is no ambiguity in what constitutes a class if there is evidence that no work was ever completed.

 

[NEforceUConn]

Baker Tilly, who conducted the review, should be banned from consulting and lose their accounting credentials. Here is why, "Nor did the investigators from accounting firm Baker Tilly, spearheaded by former Gov. Jim Martin, speak with current or former basketball players or coaches. The report lists only four former football players and coaches on its ledger of interview subjects." and " Martin said he called Nyang’oro once to set up an interview but Nyang’oro never returned his call. The former governor said the team of investigators tried to contact Nyang’oro and Crowder “a couple of” times."

And the media considers this Baker Tilly report credible? What a joke. They only interviewed/talked with 4 former players.

here's the link to the article in my local paper

http://www.news-record.com/home/483977-63/study-unc-scandal-academic

 

[Adios]

How come Jeff Jacobs is an balloon knot about UConn? I guess being a new kid on the block comes with a heavy price. It's as if we're being hazed.

 

[freescooter]

I actually agree with scoot somewhat here in that there is an ambiguity and a burden of proof that can't be put on the NCAA to define what does and does not constitute a class.

However, and I'm not familiar with all the details, if UNC is on the record that at least 1 Current student athlete has been found to have been given a grade for absolutely no work whatsoever, that student should be declared ineligible regardless of the problem extending outside of the athletic community. There is no ambiguity in what constitutes a class if there is evidence that no work was ever completed.

Really it is simple. If the university of north carolina knows it had students taking bogus courses, it should declare those classes are not being recognized. Void any degrees that relied on those for credit even. If it doesn't do that or something like that, if the University doesn't say they were bogus, and everything I've read seems to suggest that they haven't exactly done that, then you are asking the NCAA to go in and rule on whether something is a legitimate class or not. And once you do that, you open things up even more. I wouldn't have wanted the NCAA to come in and decide whether some class was rigorous enough. Or whether it should count toward someone's degree. And that is the problem with this situation. the institution you should be getting on is not the NCAA. It is the University of North Carolina. they are the ones offering bogus classes and apparently giving bogus degrees. that's where the pressure should be placed to force changes. Because there are some things the NCAA can't or shouldn't do. And there are some areas where they just don't have any rules. How owuld you propose the NCAA handle it anyway? every professor submit his syllabus at the beginning of the semester? Every proposal for an independent study be submitted for approval by Emmert? Every student senior thesis gets sent to the NCAA office for evaluation? Every independent study report? Internship journal? How would you propose to get the NCAA involved in this?

 

[uconnfan68]

I actually agree with scoot somewhat here in that there is an ambiguity and a burden of proof that can't be put on the NCAA to define what does and does not constitute a class.

However, and I'm not familiar with all the details, if UNC is on the record that at least 1 Current student athlete has been found to have been given a grade for absolutely no work whatsoever, that student should be declared ineligible regardless of the problem extending outside of the athletic community. There is no ambiguity in what constitutes a class if there is evidence that no work was ever completed.

Good luck with that. They play a game.