Uconn ... the real story

[RUSS56]

I have to agree with RUSS56, in his initial post, he presented an accurate assessment of the program as a whole since Kevin Ollie took over. I'm not bashing KO or anyone else for that matter, but, from what I've seen since Jim Calhoun took over the program to what it is now, we aren't even on the same page.

It is true, Jim Calhoun took over this program and built it from a regional power into a national power and winning 3 national championships along the way. Everyone knew who was in charge of this program, no doubt.

Speaking of recruiting, did Jim Calhoun get every high school recruit in the state of Connecticut, no, did Jim Calhoun get every high school recruit he had targeted, no, but, he did get the recruits that were best for what he wanted to do with his system and his program. In fact, there were many kids he didn't recruit because they weren't the type of kids he wanted for his program. Bottom line is this; we all know that Jim Calhoun knew what he wanted and he could recruit because the proof is he won 3 National Championships and had several of his players went on to have great careers in the NBA with a slam dunk future Hall of Famer.

Not to minimize Kevin Ollie and what he's done because last year, he had a great recruiting class; several 4 star bordering 5 star recruits and other possibly underrated players made up that great class. Previous recruiting classes haven't been as good as last years class, and we don't know what the future holds for upcoming classes.

It is possible that Jim Calhoun and Kevin Ollie have different philosophies when it comes to what they want in their programs and the types of players they recruit.

UCONN is nationally known, because of what Jim Calhoun has done, period. When Kevin Ollie took over the program, he took over a nationally known commodity that not only has name recognition but also has pedigree, 4 National Championship banners hang from the rafters at Gampel Pavilion as proof. We know what Jim Calhoun has done with the program, what has Kevin Ollie done with what he inherited? Yes, he won a National Championship in his second year of coaching, but not with his players. I'm not minimizing what he has done, I'm just asking what has he done with what he has recruited? We've won a few tournament games, agreed, but, we missed a couple of tournaments as well. Something is missing, not sure what it is either, but its just not there.

Does the AAC have something to do with it? I guarantee that has a pretty big part on why we don't get those top recruits to come to UCONN. We saw the respect this conference gets from the tournament committee, we had our two top teams seeded as #6's! Even though they lost early, they should have been seeded higher. Heck, we won the whole thing as #7 seed in 2014! My point here is that the blame is not all on Kevin Ollie, the conference we're in is part of the problem.

What we have not accomplished under Kevin Ollie is player development. The program needs to coach up these kids and not allow mediocrity to be the rule of the day. I understand "10 toes in" and "take the stairs and not the escalator", but, have we seen it? We had a Ferrari parked in the garage that sputtered when let out in the open road, who's fault is that? This past year, we played with 6 or 7 guys plus the walk-ons because the other players were out for the rest of the season with injuries, who's fault is that? In all honesty, we know the answer.

We've seen some recent changes made by Kevin Ollie and hopefully those changes will fix some of the things that has been a hindrance to the growth of this program. Whether we want to agree or not, leadership is not overrated. This program needs strong leadership, from the top on down.

Personally, I believe when you have strong leadership, you have a strong vision of what you want to accomplish and a strong willingness to go after it and, achieve it. That, I believe is one of the things that this program is missing. Kevin Ollie shouldn't be the players best friend, he needs to be their coach and lead them. Hey, sometimes strong leadership hurts feelings, but that's life.

RUSS56, you did a good job, and you're right, somehow a couple of sentences you wrote about recruiting kids in Connecticut were hijacked. That does not diminish all the other things you mentioned in your post.

Thanks for your post, it was needed.

Very well stated, and thank you. The one thing I hear after every game from KO, is we have to work on this, we have to work on that. It is a constant. The problem is, if you recognize what is wrong, and you can't fix it, it means:

1) The kids are not buying in
2) The kids are trying hard, but are just not as good as the opponent
3) The coach is not getting the message through

What concerns me about these post-game pressers is Ollie sounds a lot like Diaco did, we have to fix things. That's ok, but when it becomes every loss, the same response, it gets old fast. The remedy is also starting to look like Diaco. We need to change things. So Diaco fires offensive coordinator, and KO...what happened to Miller? We don't know that whole story yet. We don't know why players are leaving that were sure to get a lot of court time next year either.

The AAC is slowly taking the bloom off the rose. That is an excuse though, why doesn't it impact Geno? Why doesn't anything impact Boise St football? The short answer is, when you have the right guys, in the right places, it doesn't matter.

 

[RUSS56]

Props to you on your pro-career but I think that time away from UConn disengaged you from Storrs a bit... quite a bit...

Thank you. I think maybe the opposite could be true. It allows me to view things without the spin masters in the media, the coaches, etc. They have become excuse masters, working in their own interests, not yours, remember that

 

[storrsroars]

Do Vin Baker, Marcus Camby or Ryan Gomes count?

Didn't want to go all the way back to Charles Smith?

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I agree, he won and coached every game to get them there. I guarantee you he never sniffs another one. I hope I'm wrong on that account, but I don't see it. He had an elite team, albeit none of his construction, and got them to win, nothing to argue about there. Tell me how his own kids are doing?

With the exception of Lasan Kromah and Amida Brimah, all of the players responsible for the 2014 title were also together on a team coached by Jim Calhoun, and didn't come close to winning a title.

There's two possible explanations for that:

One, players need time to develop into winners. But if you accept that explanation, doesn't this current team also deserve time to mature into a winner?

Two, Kevin Ollie hasn't recruited the replacement talent required to win. But wait... once Calhoun left we were relegated to a laughingstock of a conference that's easy as hell to negatively recruit against while simultaneously suffering two years of severe recruiting restrictions. Don't you think, if you accept this explanation, it's a bit silly to blame Ollie for this?

Ollie has been far from perfect... And I think even he would admit that. But to say he's already proven he's bad enough that you can definitively dismiss any future chances to compete for a title? Sorry, that's ridiculous.

 

[IMind]

Thank you. I think maybe the opposite could be true. It allows me to view things without the spin masters in the media, the coaches, etc. They have become excuse masters, working in their own interests, not yours, remember that

Oh Christ... this is going the full gamut... we have a concern troll and then a sock puppet... and now he's bringing us an outsiders prospective. Nice.
Oh wise one please enlighten us more! How many times do you think these very same things have been brought up on here...

And while I don't want to exactly support this guys argument. Stop bringing up Vin Baker as someone Calhoun "missed on." No one knew that Vin Baker was going to become Vin Baker. He played for Old Saybrook and averaged 5 pts per game his freshman year at Hartford.

 

[RUSS56]

The bigger problem as I see it, is Calhoun, love him, or hate him has set the bar so high, it is extremely difficult to be the first behind him, especially a first with 0 head coaching experience. If we remove all that from the equation, KO has done at least an adequate job. He is learning every day himself. He is under extreme pressure. He knows more than anyone, he needs to win, and he needs to win now. He is a fighter, he is dedicated to the cause, and what and who he will be, may be nothing more than it is now, it may be exceptionally better. The jury is still out, but he is in the results business, and he soon has to prove he can deliver. What happens if Uconn finishes next season with a losing record? Failing attendance? You think he is not aware of what is going on. he needs his team to over-achieve next year, stop saying we have to work on things every presser following a loss, buckle down, and win. I pray for him, and that he digs himself out of a hole created, it is going to swallow him up, or he will dig himself out, I hope and pray he digs himself out.

 

[RUSS56]

Oh Christ... this is going the full gamut... we have a concern troll and then a sock puppet... and now he's bringing us an outsiders prospective. Nice.
Oh wise one please enlighten us more! How many times do you think these very same things have been brought up on here...

And while I don't want to exactly support this guys argument. Stop bringing up Vin Baker as someone Calhoun "missed on." No one knew that Vin Baker was going to become Vin Baker. He played for Old Saybrook and averaged 5 pts per game his freshman year at Hartford.

Thanks for your opinion, all are welcome

 

[IMind]

Thanks for your opinion, all are welcome

I know that. I've been here through thick and thin for decades... but you keep on playing your game.

 

[RUSS56]

With the exception of Lasan Kromah and Amida Brimah, all of the players responsible for the 2014 title were also together on a team coached by Jim Calhoun, and didn't come close to winning a title.

There's two possible explanations for that:

One, players need time to develop into winners. But if you accept that explanation, doesn't this current team also deserve time to mature into a winner?

Two, Kevin Ollie hasn't recruited the replacement talent required to win. But wait... once Calhoun left we were relegated to a laughingstock of a conference that's easy as hell to negatively recruit against while simultaneously suffering two years of severe recruiting restrictions. Don't you think, if you accept this explanation, it's a bit silly to blame Ollie for this?

Ollie has been far from perfect... And I think even he would admit that. But to say he's already proven he's bad enough that you can definitively dismiss any future chances to compete for a title? Sorry, that's ridiculous.

Thanks for adding your input. Most teams that win a National Championship, didn't win it with most of the same kids the year before. I agree, Ollie didn't become a great coach winning it, or a bad one finishing with a losing record, his resume is incomplete, but this is truly a defining year or two ahead.

 

[RUSS56]

I know that. I've been here through thick and thin for decades... but you keep on playing your game.

Thanks. I go back as a 7 year old listening to games on WTIC, because I was in bed already, and since that time I have seen in person, or TV all but maybe 20-25 games. I'm not the enemy, I am on your side, glad this discussion is free and open.

 

[Husky Dad]

This is like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!

 

[Chief00]

We're in an age of alternative facts; anything is possible.

Sorry UConnphil2006, Chief has to Coach you up a little: There are always alternate facts and it's not a negative:
1) Is it partly cloudy or partly sunny?
2) Is the glass half full or half empty?
3) Are you over optimistic or a positive person?
There is more than one way to approach something. None of these options are inherently false or correct. Sometimes it's a matter of perspective.

 

[CTBasketball]

That '14 team was not elite in any sense of the word and KO thoroughly outcoached Izzo, Donovan and Calipari (not that the latter is impressive) in succession to win the title.

Calipari and Izzo coached better games against Ollie IMO. As a coach you can't prepare defensively for a 26' dagger 4-5 times a game with the shot clock under 5 seconds. That just breaks your back.

 

[tzznandrew]

I guarantee you he never sniffs another one.

I wrote a big response. But let's just cut to the chase. You're new here. I've been on this board in its different iterations since 2002-03, and others longer. One thing I learned is that people show up and say these sorts of things every few years. They did it to Calhoun then--and a few other times. People act like the sky is falling after bad years, and that everything needs to change. And then, invariably, the team bounces back and those people disappear.

Now, we haven't seen the bounce back with KO. But there are a host of reasons for that. We may, later, re-characterize those reasons--though valid--as mere excuses. But I'm willing to bet UConn is back to being UConn pretty soon.

That's a polite way of me saying that I hope very soon you no longer have a reason to post here, and the history of UConn suggests that this is true.

 

[CTBasketball]

The Ollie to Calhoun comparisons in any aspect are dumb. We're comparing a vintage Ferrari, one of the best ever, to a 2014 Honda Civic Si.

 

[IMind]

The Ollie to Calhoun comparisons in any aspect are dumb. We're comparing a vintage Ferrari, one of the best ever, to a 2014 Honda Civic Si.

A Honda Civic really? Why not at least a Nissan GTR? ;-)

 

[RUSS56]

I just looked at NBA draft net mock drafts through 2019, and no Uconn player is on the 2018 1st 2 rounds, or the 2019 first round. There is a long way to go, don't remember this being the case 2 straight years, maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe someone will play their way up.

 

[RUSS56]

The Ollie to Calhoun comparisons in any aspect are dumb. We're comparing a vintage Ferrari, one of the best ever, to a 2014 Honda Civic Si.

I agree with that comparison, maybe just not the way you compared it, but a pointless argument

 

[IMind]

Thanks. I go back as a 7 year old listening to games on WTIC, because I was in bed already, and since that time I have seen in person, or TV all but maybe 20-25 games. I'm not the enemy, I am on your side, glad this discussion is free and open.

Yes yes... I'm sure Dee Rowe personally tucked you in at night.

 

[UConNation]

Sorry UConnphil2006, Chief has to Coach you up a little: There are always alternate facts and it's not a negative:
1) Is it partly cloudy or partly sunny?
2) Is the glass half full or half empty?
3) Are you over optimistic or a positive person?
There is more than one way to approach something. None of these options are inherently false or correct. Sometimes it's a matter of perspective.

HAHAHA... Chief, my man, that's called perspective not "alternative fact."

For instance...
Person 1: "Is that a 6 or a 9 written over there on the ground?"
Person 2: "I don't know, but I bet if we find the person who wrote it, or try to orient ourselves to our surroundings we can find out what it truly is."

It's not both. It's one or the other. There are no alternative facts. There are a lot of things in life that have varying degrees of grey; facts are not one of them. It's either a fact or not.

 

[CTBasketball]

I agree with that comparison, maybe just not the way you compared it, but a pointless argument

The point of your thread highlights these differences. Therefore this thread should redirect its focus or else is counterproductive.

 

[spudzj6]

The point of your thread highlights these differences. Therefore this thread should redirect its focus or else is counterproductive.

Spot on. OP points out "a very troubling" aspect of coaching styles comparing KO and JC. When the argument is brought up for debate, OP calls it a pointless argument. Entire thread then becomes a pointless argument?

 

[Lefty2one]

The bigger problem as I see it, is Calhoun, love him, or hate him has set the bar so high, it is extremely difficult to be the first behind him, especially a first with 0 head coaching experience.

I still think the bigger problem is the disaster of a situation were in with recruiting sanctions and conference realignment. The board hashed this out pretty extensively last Spring in a "Is it KO or is it the players/recruiting?" that was the main problem debate. While it's certainly a bit of both, I still maintain that recruiting over a four year stretch is the main culprit.

2012: Calhoun, Nolan
2013: Facey, Brimah, Samuel
2014: Hamilton, Lubin, Cassell Jr
2015: Adams, Enoch

While Omar probably would have had a nice career if he stayed healthy, we essentially inked one UConn-level recruit in Adams during a four-year stretch (I know some were JC's recruits). I think the 2016 class was the first real class that Ollie was able to put together that would help reload the program and get things on track. We'd have the pipeline loaded again and would be able to stop relying on grad transfers. It was deep, it had talent and for a change it looked like it'd have multiple above-average players. Jackson would have been a great 4-year player for us, Vital will be, and even though he only played a few games you could tell, IMO, that Gilbert will be a good player at this level assuming he can stay on the court. Durham is skilled, just needs to get stronger. Diarra remains an unknown. Needless to say, I think our 2016 class had a minimum of three quality players and probably a 4th in Durham. Sucks that we lost Jackson but we have to move on.

Every coach will tell you that you need players. Players make coaches look good, unless you're a Lorenzo Romar type. We're still in the process of reloading the pipeline and getting some continuity in the program.

I feel like this is the same conversation I have to have with fellow Knicks fans. They want Phil to perform magic overnight when in reality the Knicks were a 5-7 year rebuild from when he took over.

 

[Chief00]

HAHAHA... Chief, my man, that's called perspective not "alternative fact."

For instance...
Person 1: "Is that a 6 or a 9 written over there on the ground?"
Person 2: "I don't know, but I bet if we find the person who wrote it, or try to orient ourselves to our surroundings we can find out what it truly is."

It's not both. It's one or the other. There are no alternative facts. There are a lot of things in life that have varying degrees of grey; facts are not one of them. It's either a fact or not.

Good diversion try - So back to the examples I gave - when an 8 ounce glass has 4 ounces in it - isn't it a fact that it's both half full and half empty?

 

[IMind]

I just looked at NBA draft net mock drafts through 2019, and no Uconn player is on the 2018 1st 2 rounds, or the 2019 first round. There is a long way to go, don't remember this being the case 2 straight years, maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe someone will play their way up.

Actually yes it happened a few times under Calhoun. Your perception of the program and the exact nature of what went on under Calhoun is part of the problem with your argument. The program wasn't flawless under Calhoun's tenure... there were a few dips in recruiting and wins... actually Ollie's dip while a bit more severe than most of Calhoun's falls into the pattern of a drop off every 3-5 years. That being said Calhoun NEVER had a year with injuries like Ollie had this year.