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Thought About Notre Dame...

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Nuyoika

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Do you think ND playing in the ACC has affected their defense? I feel like their defense was much better in the Old BE? Maybe my eyes are betraying me. I have always lovingly referred to the ACC and the no defense conference and the SEC as the no offense conference.

We all know UConn doesn't really care what conference they are in they will always play the same way. Why does it seem that other schools fall into playing the way of their conference? What is the allure of that? I was talking to a Vol fan who said "SCar plays good SEC defense". Why can't they just play good defense? Does it have to be SEC defense?

So if your teams basketball looks like a certain conference style it probably doesn't make your team less than, but I'm sure it doesn't really help you come tourney time as you are basically wearing a red dress to a funeral. I suppose good basketball is good basketball but your conference can hurt you if you assimilate before you evaluate.
 

Orangutan

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Was curious, so I checked the numbers. Here are ND's defensive numbers for the past several years. I would have checked defensive points per possession but I think the NCAA part of WBB State is still down.

ND%20defense.png


2013 was ND's last year in the Big East. Not a whole lot different between that year and the past 3 with the FG% being shockingly consistent. There are better defensive numbers in 2011 and 2012 - I attribute that to the talent on those teams (esp. Diggins & Peters) because before ND's final four years the numbers were worse than they have been in the ACC.
 

bballnut90

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Do you think ND playing in the ACC has affected their defense? I feel like their defense was much better in the Old BE? Maybe my eyes are betraying me. I have always lovingly referred to the ACC and the no defense conference and the SEC as the no offense conference.

We all know UConn doesn't really care what conference they are in they will always play the same way. Why does it seem that other schools fall into playing the way of their conference? What is the allure of that? I was talking to a Vol fan who said "SCar plays good SEC defense". Why can't they just play good defense? Does it have to be SEC defense?

So if your teams basketball looks like a certain conference style it probably doesn't make your team less than, but I'm sure it doesn't really help you come tourney time as you are basically wearing a red dress to a funeral. I suppose good basketball is good basketball but your conference can hurt you if you assimilate before you evaluate.


I think it has more to do with personnel. Notre Dame hasn't been a defensive juggarnaut since the Peters/Mallory/Novosel class graduated. The players McGraw has been landing in the last 4-5 years have been primarily offensive standouts ala Kayla McBride, Jewell Loyd, Erin Boley, Jackie Young, Arike Ogunbowale, etc. Even players who took on a smaller role at the beginning of their career eventually shined offensively like Madison Cable, Natalie Achonwa and Kathryn Westbeld. All are outstanding players, but none of them are particularly strong defensively.

To some degree, most programs play up or down to the level of their competitor. UCONN is the one exception here, but across all levels in sports you see this. And in most sports, each conference has a reputation for their style of play. You see it in football, basketball, volleyball, etc. Not sure why it is this way, but it seems to be an apparent patter across the US, and the world for that matter.
 

Nuyoika

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Was curious, so I checked the numbers. Here are ND's defensive numbers for the past several years. I would have checked defensive points per possession but I think the NCAA part of WBB State is still down.

ND%20defense.png


2013 was ND's last year in the Big East. Not a whole lot different between that year and the past 3 with the FG% being shockingly consistent. There are better defensive numbers in 2011 and 2012 - I attribute that to the talent on those teams (esp. Diggins & Peters) because before ND's final four years the numbers were worse than they have been in the ACC.


Thanks for digging up the info Orangutan. I knew if I was lazy enough to just ask the question without doing the research someone would do it for me. Much appreciated! I guess I just keep going back to that game vs Stanford and seeing some of the defensive lapses. It didn't look like a typical ND defensive performance. The personnel in 2011 & 2012 were definitely gritty defenders.
 
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OT but in reference to the ACC and ND (and perhaps UConn)

The ACC will launch its own cable channel, the ACC Network, by August 2019,reports ESPN’s Brett McMurphy.

The new channel will be launched in partnership with ESPN, which already runs the SEC Network and Longhorn Network.

The ACC will become the fourth Power Five conference to launch its own cable channel. The Big Ten partnered with Fox for a very profitable cable channel, while the independent Pac-12 Network has struggled to find its footing.

The SEC’s deal with ESPN has been profitable for the conference.

The ACC has also extended its grant of rights through 2036, according to McMurphy, which means if Notre Dame joins a conference for football before 2036, it has to be the ACC.
 

SCGamecock

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Conferences launching their own networks is GREAT for the non revenue sports, such as WBB. UCONN has SNY so this doesn't really apply to you all.. but not every major D1 program can claim that ALL of their games make it to television.

I enjoy being able to watch every single SC game on television, and if not TV, then it's streamed on the digital network where I can also watch games of other SEC schools. This is great for WBB in the ACC.
 

Dillon77

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Conferences launching their own networks is GREAT for the non revenue sports, such as WBB. UCONN has SNY so this doesn't really apply to you all.. but not every major D1 program can claim that ALL of their games make it to television.

I enjoy being able to watch every single SC game on television, and if not TV, then it's streamed on the digital network where I can also watch games of other SEC schools. This is great for WBB in the ACC.

Virtually very ND home game was broadcast on one of the ESPNs (usually 3) and/or free streaming, which is not the case for a whole lot of other schools. Was able to catch most games save for some tourneys in obscure places or one of two ACC locations (Clemson, UVA). Perhaps this contract can help some of that, but access has not been an issue for Irish fans.
 
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Like most UConn fans..........hoping that one lucky day the ACC or another major conference might make an invitation to join
 

Dillon77

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I think it has more to do with personnel. Notre Dame hasn't been a defensive juggarnaut since the Peters/Mallory/Novosel class graduated. The players McGraw has been landing in the last 4-5 years have been primarily offensive standouts ala Kayla McBride, Jewell Loyd, Erin Boley, Jackie Young, Arike Ogunbowale, etc. Even players who took on a smaller role at the beginning of their career eventually shined offensively like Madison Cable, Natalie Achonwa and Kathryn Westbeld. All are outstanding players, but none of them are particularly strong defensively.

To some degree, most programs play up or down to the level of their competitor. UCONN is the one exception here, but across all levels in sports you see this. And in most sports, each conference has a reputation for their style of play. You see it in football, basketball, volleyball, etc. Not sure why it is this way, but it seems to be an apparent patter across the US, and the world for that matter.

I took a look at this during lunch, had to go to a meeting and am now back.
Personnel has a lot to do with it, as does scheme, and the talents of the players that are in the scheme at the particular time.

Looking at that 2011-2012 team, the Irish leaders in minutes played were (in descending order): Diggins, Mallory, McBride, Novosel, Peters, Achonwa and Kaila Turner. Kaila Turner was another good ballhawk and I'll debate you a bit on McBride, who I think played pretty good D. Not at the level of Sky, Brittany or Nasty, but not bad. In addition to the shooting percentages that Orangutan noted, here are some other team aspects that I noticed there:
- Steals: +4.4
- Turnovers: Opposition had 4.4 more per game than the Irish
- Rebounding margin: +8.5
- Blocks: +1.1
- Opposition scoring: 52.9
- ND Scoring: 78.9; Margin: 26.0
Lots of steals, very solid rebounding. More opportunities for the offense..most of whom were pretty talented in that right, as well.

In 2012-13, the Irish's last year in the Big East, Mallory/Novosel/Peters were gone, but Jewell Loyd, Ariel Braker, Maddie Cable and Markisha Wright joined in.
- Steals: +2.1
- Turnovers: Opposition had 5.4 more per game than the Irish
- Rebounding Margin: +10.9
- Blocks: -0.6
- Opposition Scoring: 59.2
- ND Scoring: 81.2; Margin: +21.9

Coming up to last year in the ACC, you had the following players putting the most time on the floor: Cable, Allen, Turner, Mabrey1, Westbeld, Mabrey2, Huffman.
- Steals: +2
- Turnovers: Opposition had 2.4 more per game than Irish
- Rebounding Margin: +5.8
- Blocks: +2.1 (probably all attributable to Turner)
- Opposition scoring: 61.3
- ND scoring: 80.0; Margin - +18.8

No one was ever going to accuse Mike Mabrey of being a defensive stopper and Mabrey2 and Ogunbowale were freshman. But the biggest personnel challenge there was not having a second big to help clog the middle once Taya Reimer bowed out. Westbeld playing half of the time, Nelson's minutes were up and down and Huffman was a 5'9" guard playing high post. Luckily Turner swatted well and Cable rebounded above her size.

When all is looked at, still looks a lot like the Irish but there are variations. Hoping Erin Boley can add some inside presence to help out Turner and Westbeld.

As for Stanford, that was just one of those games. Erica McCall went off the map, shooting 12-18 and Karlie Samuelson went 6-8, 5-6 from 3-pt. land including the buzzer-beater, bank shot heave that killed our momentum. Tip of the hat to both.

I can't imagine finding a threesome of ballhawks like Diggins, Novosel and Mallory again but who would've expected Hannah Huffman to become as valuable to us defensively as she was? I'm sure we'll find another....
 

Dillon77

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Like most UConn fans.....hoping that one lucky day the ACC or another major conference might make an invitation to join

On so many fronts. I went to see UConn and ND play in women's soccer at Rutgerslast year during the NCAA's (UConn won) and it reminded me of some epic battles those teams had in the Big East in years past.
(Actually, as much as I'm supposed to like the ACC -- as a Jersey-based guy -- I don't get to see the Irish as much in person now that they don't play Seton Hall, Rutgers, St. John's, UConn, even Providence). Thank the advances in digital technology for being able to watch these events
 

hardcorehusky

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Is there a stat for average possession? If ND shot the ball quicker in the ACC, there would be more possessions and more opportunity to give up points.
 

UcMiami

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Interesting thread and some really good research in response to the OP.
One interesting change with the change of leagues not mentioned is the effect of playing Uconn 4 times a year which occurred I believe all three of their last years in the BE vs. meeting them once or twice per year since leaving. 4 games represents a little more than 10% of a season and facing the top defensive team and top offensive team in the league that frequently should skew numbers just a little. But I don't really see echoes of that either in the stats presented so far. Those types of numbers might show up in comparative stats more - point differential, shooting percentage differential, rebound differential, etc. - but I am too lazy right now to check them.

I haven't myself noticed a difference in style of play beyond the changes dictated by changing rosters. Nor in results - they have made it to the FF every year during the transition until this last year when they were upset by a team that played nearly a perfect game against them, including some 'prayers answered' shots. I think they are playing in a league with less defensive oriented teams, and teams that are generally play a faster offensive style than the old BE and so absolute offensive numbers should be higher because possessions should be higher per game.
 
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Not playing UConn at least twice, and some years three or even four times a year, is what has hurt Notre Dame.
 

BigBird

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Scott D. Pierce: Fans out of patience with Pac-12 Network, Larry Scott

The PAC 12 TV network has verged on being a dumpster fire. From the beginning, the P12 shunned affiliation with an established producer, such as ESPN. They didn't want to share the cash. By their reasoning, they would own the network and get full control of the revenue. Their (so far) biggest error though, was trying to play hardball with DirecTV. The P12 was told to not let the door hit them...

With AT&T acquiring controlling interest of DirecTV a year or so ago, some thought that the "big deal" would come quickly. It hasn't happened yet.
 
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