The days of the ACC being an elite BB conference are over.

[mussels]

Have you considered reading the article that started the thread which explains it?

Just skimmed it now.

By the article’s logic, since the Big 12 just watered down their basketball product, they won’t be an elite hoops conference either. The SEC has never been an elite basketball conference, and the BIG 10 can’t make a legitimate claim on that, so I guess that leaves the Big East as the only elite basketball conference in the country.

I like that conclusion, but know that the top of the ACC will always be in the game. They are, and will continue to be an elite hoops conference.

 

[zls44]

Just skimmed it now.

By the article’s logic, since the Big 12 just watered down their basketball product, they won’t be an elite hoops conference either. The SEC has never been an elite basketball conference, and the BIG 10 can’t make a legitimate claim on that, so I guess that leaves the Big East as the only elite basketball conference in the country.

I like that conclusion, but know that the top of the ACC will always be in the game. They are, and will continue to be an elite hoops conference.

Having two elite teams and 10 teams that suck doesn’t make you an elite conference. We already have that.


It’s called the West Coast Conference.

 

[Jbirdp5]

You are being intentionally dense. Coach K was like Michael Jordan. His deal was special and irrelevant.

We’ve already seen evidence that schools like Alabama have decided to start paying up for basketball. As the salaries continue to creep up, more schools in the SEC, B1G and elsewhere will have to pay to get a decent coach. We are right on the cusp of that sea change. When it happens, we will be in trouble. Our AD is tapped, that’s why our football assistant pool is so small. There isn’t endless money for basketball. There is a breaking point.

Hurley literally just received a keeping up with the Joneses contract. Our whole league is paying coaches at the top of the market. Your fears are exactly that and not evidence based

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I mean, Tim Duncan and Chris Paul does not equal "essentially no history."

Chris Paul left Wake almost 20 years ago. They haven't been real contenders since he left.

 

[mussels]

Having two elite teams and 10 teams that suck doesn’t make you an elite conference. We already have that.


It’s called the West Coast Conference.

In the last five years four different ACC teams have made the final four.

The West Coast Conference can’t claim that. In fact, no conference other than the ACC can.

 

[zls44]

In the last five years four different ACC teams have made the final four.

The West Coast Conference can’t claim that. In fact, no conference other than the ACC can.

The Big East and Big 12 are indisputably better leagues right now. Adding Cal and SMU isn’t going to help. They’ve been tumbling down the KenPom rankings over the last five years and they just grabbed a pile of anchors. Duke being elite won’t change that.

 

[Vowelguy]

Last seasons Massey ratings:
91 Stanford
161 SMU
258 Cal

Stan would be 11th of the 18.
SMU and Cal would be in the bottom 3 with Lou.

 

[Hoophound]

Hurley literally just received a keeping up with the Joneses contract. Our whole league is paying coaches at the top of the market. Your fears are exactly that and not evidence based

Yet. The AD is literally telling us we’ve got a problem. We can’t be charging students much more to fund athletics. UConn costs twice as much for in state students as many other state U’s around the country. We’ve gone to that well way too many times.

 

[Inyatkin]

Chris Paul left Wake almost 20 years ago. They haven't been real contenders since he left.

He said "essentially no history." I pushed back. What's confusing?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I mean, Tim Duncan and Chris Paul does not equal "essentially no history."

Dr. J went to UMass. Does that mean UMass has a great basketball history?

 

[Inyatkin]

Dr. J went to UMass. Does that mean UMass has a great basketball history?

The category wasn't "great." It was "essentially none."

This is already the dumbest argument I've ever been a part of, so I think I'm done.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Dr. J went to UMass. Does that mean UMass has a great basketball history?

They also had Cal and Camby. UMass 528 W-L% all time. They have been lousy since Cal really. Maybe Frank Martin can turn it around, but we're talking an A-10 team and that whole league is getting crushed by the focus on hoops at P4 football schools.

Wake has a .553 W-L% since 1906. They won 25 games two years ago. They were consistently good under Dave Odom and Skip Prosser. Manning wasn't good. Let's see what Steve Forbes can do. Wake is a quality program.

The ACC's problem is that Louisville, a historic power, is truly awful. Notre Dame, another school with plenty of success in its history, is also awful. GT is pretty bad right now. Syracuse slipped to mediocre. Looking at the Big East, if not for two new coaches in Pitino and Cooley, you'd say St. Johns and Georgetown were bad as well. But Georgetown has a .602 winning percentage all time. Louisville is much better than that, at .657. Notre Dame is .641. Betting on them to continue to stink is probably a losing bet.

 

[superjohn]

They also had Cal and Camby. UMass 528 W-L% all time. They have been lousy since Cal really. Maybe Frank Martin can turn it around, but we're talking an A-10 team and that whole league is getting crushed by the focus on hoops at P4 football schools.

Wake has a .553 W-L% since 1906. They won 25 games two years ago. They were consistently good under Dave Odom and Skip Prosser. Manning wasn't good. Let's see what Steve Forbes can do. Wake is a quality program.

The ACC's problem is that Louisville, a historic power, is truly awful. Notre Dame, another school with plenty of success in its history, is also awful. GT is pretty bad right now. Syracuse slipped to mediocre. Looking at the Big East, if not for two new coaches in Pitino and Cooley, you'd say St. Johns and Georgetown were bad as well. But Georgetown has a .602 winning percentage all time. Louisville is much better than that, at .657. Notre Dame is .641. Betting on them to continue to stink is probably a losing bet.

Wake sucks and UMass sucks even more than them.

What is your point in constantly defending the ACC and constantly taking little shots at the Big East? The ACC sucks right now and the Big East is way better than them, that isn't at all a controversial take.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Right now?! Preseason rankings seem close with 3-4 top 25 for each conference. What are the facts supporting "way better"? ACC hasn't added the new teams yet.
In 21-22 the ACC was better, put 2 teams in final four.
In 22-23 the BE ended up better, though each put 1 team in final four and the national storyline all year was who will be the BE banner wielding team if Nova without Wright isn't dominant. Obviously that question was answered resoundingly, I'd say putting BE on same level with other major BB conferences.

 

[superjohn]

Right now?! Preseason rankings seem close with 3-4 top 25 for each conference. What are the facts supporting "way better"? ACC hasn't added the new teams yet.
In 21-22 the ACC was better, put 2 teams in final four.
In 22-23 the BE ended up better, though each put 1 team in final four and the national storyline all year was who will be the BE banner wielding team if Nova without Wright isn't dominant. Obviously that question was answered resoundingly, I'd say putting BE on same level with other major BB conferences.

UConn had the most dominant run in the history of the 64 team tournament, Miami was the only ACC team to make it past the first weekend on their way to getting waxed by UConn. Yes, Jay Wright is gone and yes they'll be ranked heading into the season. You want to do a comparison of current Big East coaches vs. current ACC coaches?

Yes, ACC will suck even harder than they currently do once they add Cal, SMU, and Stanford.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Wake sucks and UMass sucks even more than them.

What is your point in constantly defending the ACC and constantly taking little shots at the Big East? The ACC sucks right now and the Big East is way better than them, that isn't at all a controversial take.

Because the title of this thread is absurd. It's wishful thinking for butt-hurt UConn fans. Yes, I'm one of them, but I'm not buying that delusion.

Wake was 19-14 last year and 25-10 the year before. If that "sucks" then PC sucks, Villanova sucks, Seton Hall sucks and St. Johns sucks. It seems only 4 Big East teams don't suck by that math. The truth is that the portal makes quick changes possible now. Both up and down. There are probably only a handful of programs in the country that are going to be consistently excellent.

 

[superjohn]

Because the title of this thread is absurd. It's wishful thinking for butt-hurt UConn fans. Yes, I'm one of them, but I'm not buying that delusion.

Wake was 19-14 last year and 25-10 the year before. If that "sucks" then PC sucks, Villanova sucks, Seton Hall sucks and St. Johns sucks. It seems only 4 Big East teams don't suck by that math. The truth is that the portal makes quick changes possible now. Both up and down. There are probably only a handful of programs in the country that are going to be consistently excellent.

Wake hasn't been in the field of 64 in 14 years. Nova has won two national championships in that timeframe and Providence and Seton Hall would have 13 appearances between them in that timeframe.

The title of the thread is the title of a CBS Sports article.

 

[Dogdeacon]

UConn had the most dominant run in the history of the 64 team tournament, Miami was the only ACC team to make it past the first weekend on their way to getting waxed by UConn. Yes, Jay Wright is gone and yes they'll be ranked heading into the season. You want to do a comparison of current Big East coaches vs. current ACC coaches?

Yes, ACC will suck even harder than they currently do once they add Cal, SMU, and Stanford.

If the BE is better in 22-23 b/c of UConn's run (it was) then the ACC was better in 21-22. Heading into 23-24 then BE is ahead but TBD & if Dook lives up to hype the ACC will be touted as great per usual espn hype machine.

The futures argument is obviously the one you are making and interesting. I think Stanford will continue to be a good not great team and BC has proven that the allure of 'competing against the ACC' is no attraction if you are outside their core markets. So SMU certainly won't be helped and Cal likely not either. I agree basketball in the ACC gets worse whenever those teams are added. But we know that as a fact of football driven conference realignment anyway, so rooting for it is kind of rooting for the demise of college hoops. I'd prefer the ACC perceived as being on par with BE and then beating them in the NCAA tournament.

 

[Fan1978]

They also had Cal and Camby. UMass 528 W-L% all time. They have been lousy since Cal really. Maybe Frank Martin can turn it around, but we're talking an A-10 team and that whole league is getting crushed by the focus on hoops at P4 football schools.

Wake has a .553 W-L% since 1906. They won 25 games two years ago. They were consistently good under Dave Odom and Skip Prosser. Manning wasn't good. Let's see what Steve Forbes can do. Wake is a quality program.

The ACC's problem is that Louisville, a historic power, is truly awful. Notre Dame, another school with plenty of success in its history, is also awful. GT is pretty bad right now. Syracuse slipped to mediocre. Looking at the Big East, if not for two new coaches in Pitino and Cooley, you'd say St. Johns and Georgetown were bad as well. But Georgetown has a .602 winning percentage all time. Louisville is much better than that, at .657. Notre Dame is .641. Betting on them to continue to stink is probably a losing bet.

Notre dame will be good again. New coach already has 3 deep excellent recruiting class for next year. Brey got tired and lost interest

 

[Jbirdp5]

Yet. The AD is literally telling us we’ve got a problem. We can’t be charging students much more to fund athletics. UConn costs twice as much for in state students as many other state U’s around the country. We’ve gone to that well way too many times.

Actually when the realignment rumors started our athletic director said he had to weigh whether the money was worth losing our big east ties. Money may become an issue for the department as a whole but it’s not because we may lose our men’s basketball coach due to escalating salaries. You’re off the mark here.

 

[CTFIRERETIRED]

Duke, North Carolina, and UVA should come to the Big East. Football can e added. Write our own narrative.

Wow, that is something that I never considered. Yeah, I know that I am not up to date with things, but the idea of Duke, UNC, and UVA leaving ACC, and coming to Big East could make a powerhouse basketball conference, reminiscent of the old early Big East days of the 70's 80's and 90's. Hey, maybe even try to woo Kansas from the Big-12 morass.
LOL, yeah, go ahead call me demented, but the thought does sound intriguing, doesn't it?

 

[Hoophound]

Actually when the realignment rumors started our athletic director said he had to weigh whether the money was worth losing our big east ties. Money may become an issue for the department as a whole but it’s not because we may lose our men’s basketball coach due to escalating salaries. You’re off the mark here.

First of all, AD DB said that about leaving the Big East in an effort to be diplomatic. There was no decision to be made. We'd have gone to the B12 without a thought. I know people think that we will do whatever it takes to retain maintain our basketball program and retain Hurley, but I’m not sure that’s true. More importantly, when he does leave, will we be paying the next guy big bucks? We will need to pay a huge premium to get a coach worthy of this program. The only place to get the money is to charge the students or hope a benefactor steps forward. We've been raising student fees for years to cover athletics, but the cost of UConn is becoming very non-competitive. The end is near as far as burdening the students further. There will be political and university related forces pushing back against more student fees to cover athletics.

 

[August_West]

What is your point in constantly defending the ACC and constantly taking little shots at the Big East?

Two words: Roy Williams.

 

[tzznandrew]

If so, then your post discounting a bunch of programs like Wake, NC State and GT that have better history than much of the Big East didn't make any sense. You can't have it both ways. In all time wins, 7 of the top 30 are in the ACC. Now that lacks recency bias too much. So maybe NCAA tournament wins since 2000? Couldn't find a newer one than 2020. ACC looks at least as strong as any league by that measure (not counting Maryland's).

My comment remains, if Syracuse and Louisville stay down, then that changes things. But Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville, UVA, WVU, Pitt, Notre Dame is very strong and Miami, NC State and FSU have been successful at times too. Back in 2020 when they did that list, Bama and BC both had 6 wins. Things can change.

Wake or Georgia Tech don't have a meaningful history.

NC State does, and I'd say it's about on par with Marquette or Georgetown. They have been utterly irrelevant for far far longer than either of those two schools, though, not even making an Elite 8 since 1986.

Duke, UNC, Louisville, Syracuse should be a great top 4, and Virginia and NC State both have history and titles, and the former is very good right now with a very good coach. Notre Dame has a lot of wins all time and claim some Helms titles. The league has been down for a few years with some coaching changes and historically good programs having down years. It also feels as though the conference has lost a meaningful identity, geographically and athletically.

The addition of Stanford, Cal, and SMU does nothing but exasperate any of these problems.

 

[tzznandrew]

Wake sucks and UMass sucks even more than them.

He says Wake has a consistently good program...they've been to the S16 once since 2000, with Chris Paul in 2004. They made three trips with Duncan in the mid 90s. And that's it since 1984. For almost 40 years, with two all-time great players, they made 4 S16s, 1 E8, and no FFs, and we're supposed to pretend this is a program that matters.