Tennessee basketball, 2023 part I

[VA Huskie]

Yup.... It was a fight over who wanted to lose

I only watched the OTs and that certainly seemed to be the case.

 

[DefenseBB]

Here's where I want to give kudos to @amb3096 for showing up on the thread for the good times and the bad. Where is perennial poster @stwainfan ? I mean you have to be accountable and can't just post the twitter victory tweets. Amb3096 is a nice voice of reason compared to his brethren on VolNation who are pining for Walz and now Brenda Freeze-really? How many players has she lost every year to the portal and really hasn't made a tournament run since Tina Langley was on staff in 2015. She usually fizzles out in the Sweet 16. Why on the planet would the Tennessee faithful want her plus she is making $1.7 million and no way would she leave Maryland. I am begging Amb to try to post some sense into the lunatic asylum that is VolNation.

 

[VA Huskie]

Anyone have an opinion on Kellie’s problems? Why can’t she recruit (particularly when coaching such a storied program)? Is she a poor game coach? Do players not work hard for her? What’s up??

 

[Geew1992]

Anyone have an opinion on Kellie’s problems? Why can’t she recruit (particularly when coaching such a storied program)? Is she a poor game coach? Do players not work hard for her? What’s up??

I don’t have an answer but she just can’t close the deal. The vols have been on numerous recruits top 5 but just can’t get them to commit.

 

[amb3096]

Here's where I want to give kudos to @amb3096 for showing up on the thread for the good times and the bad. Where is perennial poster @stwainfan ? I mean you have to be accountable and can't just post the twitter victory tweets. Amb3096 is a nice voice of reason compared to his brethren on VolNation who are pining for Walz and now Brenda Freeze-really? How many players has she lost every year to the portal and really hasn't made a tournament run since Tina Langley was on staff in 2015. She usually fizzles out in the Sweet 16. Why on the planet would the Tennessee faithful want her plus she is making $1.7 million and no way would she leave Maryland. I am begging Amb to try to post some sense into the lunatic asylum that is VolNation.

I’ve been the black sheep on VN because I was against the KJH hire from the start and have been skeptical for the last four years.

I don’t know who the right answer is for coach, but all I know is that the program will not rise under Kellie’s leadership.

 

[SECbbfan24]

I’ve been the black sheep on VN because I was against the KJH hire from the start and have been skeptical for the last four years.

I don’t know who the right answer is for coach, but all I know is that the program will not rise under Kellie’s leadership.

Step one would be to not just limit yourself to the Summitt tree. I don't mean this in a bad way as we see this on the mens side also. But there is a sense arrogance among the blue bloods and they like to stay in that same circle and not venture out to hire a potentially better coach.

I think Harper should have hired someone in place of her husband to coach the offense or help with the development on that side. I'm not entirely sure what he is bringing to the table exactly. I know they brought S. Williams to help with recruiting. The portal class was very good, they added some dynamic players between Hollingshead and Jackson, along with some depth. But then 23 class didn't go as plan. They were among the finalists for Nichols, Rosario, Velez, and Kymora Johnson but somehow struck out on all those.

And considering the makeup of the roster with Jackson and Horston likely WNBA bound. It puts a significant amount of pressure to add key pieces from the portal again this offseason.

 

[militarydog]

Step one would be to not just limit yourself to the Summitt tree. I don't mean this in a bad way as we see this on the mens side also. But there is a sense arrogance among the blue bloods and they like to stay in that same circle and not venture out to hire a potentially better coach.

I think Harper should have hired someone in place of her husband to coach the offense or help with the development on that side. I'm not entirely sure what he is bringing to the table exactly. I know they brought S. Williams to help with recruiting. The portal class was very good, they added some dynamic players between Hollingshead and Jackson, along with some depth. But then 23 class didn't go as plan. They were among the finalists for Nichols, Rosario, Velez, and Kymora Johnson but somehow struck out on all those.

And considering the makeup of the roster with Jackson and Horston likely WNBA bound. It puts a significant amount of pressure to add key pieces from the portal again this offseason.

I’m a little surprised their recruiting has gone this poorly with Coach S Williams. She was an unreal recruiter at Louisville.

 

[amb3096]

I’m a little surprised their recruiting has gone this poorly with Coach S Williams. She was an unreal recruiter at Louisville.

She’s getting recruits to come visit and to put Tenn on their finalist list…but it’s Kellie’s job to close, and she’s not getting it done.

Sam isn’t the problem; Kellie and Jon are

 

[amb3096]

Step one would be to not just limit yourself to the Summitt tree. I don't mean this in a bad way as we see this on the mens side also. But there is a sense arrogance among the blue bloods and they like to stay in that same circle and not venture out to hire a potentially better coach.

I think Harper should have hired someone in place of her husband to coach the offense or help with the development on that side. I'm not entirely sure what he is bringing to the table exactly. I know they brought S. Williams to help with recruiting. The portal class was very good, they added some dynamic players between Hollingshead and Jackson, along with some depth. But then 23 class didn't go as plan. They were among the finalists for Nichols, Rosario, Velez, and Kymora Johnson but somehow struck out on all those.

And considering the makeup of the roster with Jackson and Horston likely WNBA bound. It puts a significant amount of pressure to add key pieces from the portal again this offseason.

Absolutely need to not limit their search to the Summitt Tree. Honestly, none of them have proven themselves with stellar results. Holly Year 1-4 was probably peak at this point.

Program needs a fresh start to be frank. CPS will always be the history of the program, but it’s time to move on and let someone else be the face of it today

 

[Ladeeeeda]

I think Tenn is going to continue to struggle with recruitsunless they increase NIL deals. If other SEC schools (LSU, SC) offer more money, what is the draw for going to UT? Coach Harper isn't involved with USA, she hasn't had a huge amount of success in coaching (and she has been at it for 20 yrs), and UT isn't an elite academic school. UT has lost out because other schools have one or more of these advantages.

 

[visitingcock]

I think Tenn is going to continue to struggle with recruitsunless they increase NIL deals. If other SEC schools (LSU, SC) offer more money, what is the draw for going to UT? Coach Harper isn't involved with USA, she hasn't had a huge amount of success in coaching (and she has been at it for 20 yrs), and UT isn't an elite academic school. UT has lost out because other schools have one or more of these advantages.

How do you know that LSU and SCar "offer more money?" SCar has been open that they offer $25,000. That's per player and is a minimum and maximum share of team nerchandise sales, etc.. The 13th player on the bench gets the same as Boston through the school's NIL profit sharing. Now, Boston can have as many individual deals as her agent can get her that is not connected to the University. The school has nothing to do with her Nike deal, or Bose deal, etc.

I bet UT offers about the same $25,000 minimum but they aren't transparent about what they are doing. UT players are getting NIL dollars but nobody knows how much. Do you think Rickea goes there for nothing.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

How do you know that LSU and SCar "offer more money?" SCar has been open that they offer $25,000. That's per player and is a minimum and maximum share of team nerchandise sales, etc.. The 13th player on the bench gets the same as Boston through the school's NIL profit sharing. Now, Boston can have as many individual deals as her agent can get her that is not connected to the University. The school has nothing to do with her Nike deal, or Bose deal, etc.

I bet UT offers about the same $25,000 minimum but they aren't transparent about what they are doing. UT players are getting NIL dollars but nobody knows how much. Do you think Rickea goes there for nothing.

The post didn't say they offered more money. They said IF the other SEC schools offer more money, Tennessee is at a disadvantage. They also said they are at a disadvantage to LSU and Carolina have a huge advantage in coaching experience and reputation and academics. The only advantage Tennessee can offer is more NIL money.


I still think Kara Lawson is a perfect fit for Tennessee and no doubt in my mind she would bring them back into the National conversation again and quickly.

 

[JellyBean]

Anyone have an opinion on Kellie’s problems? Why can’t she recruit (particularly when coaching such a storied program)? Is she a poor game coach? Do players not work hard for her? What’s up??

Great question. I think in terms of recruiting, it was tough for the 2023 year because of the remaining players. I believe I read somewhere that Tennessee scaled back their recruiting because of the status of Horston, Jackson, and Key (WNBA draft or stay for the Covid year). They had roughly eight players that they were looking at and made the calculated move of only looking at four players. If those three ladies decide to move on to the WNBA, Coach Harper and her coaching staff still have a slim option with recruits, or they will go into the transfer portal. I am sure her coaching staff has several candidates in mind. As for the other stuff, who knows.

 

[Ladeeeeda]

How do you know that LSU and SCar "offer more money?" SCar has been open that they offer $25,000. That's per player and is a minimum and maximum share of team nerchandise sales, etc.. The 13th player on the bench gets the same as Boston through the school's NIL profit sharing. Now, Boston can have as many individual deals as her agent can get her that is not connected to the University. The school has nothing to do with her Nike deal, or Bose deal, etc.

I bet UT offers about the same $25,000 minimum but they aren't transparent about what they are doing. UT players are getting NIL dollars but nobody knows how much. Do you think Rickea goes there for nothing.

I know that "LSU" (in quotes bc technically it isn't LSU, it's a collective) offered way more to recruits than Tenn did. Both LSU and SC can help an athlete get more deals bc they provide better exposure through either the coaches name and/or the schools recent success. Jolly doesn't bring any of those things to the table and if you don't have anything going for you, then the only thing you have left to fall back on is money.

 

[Creature]

I think its a mistake to fire Coach Harper. Wen you guys got rid of Coach Fulmer-it resulted in about 20yrs of futility until coach Heupel this year. Just stick to the plan and give her the support she needs. You guys are mad at recruiting. Well in WBB -its all abut the relationships. I believe your staff is focused on forging relationships in 2024 & 2025 because the bad plan in recruiting ids ineffective for 2022 & 2023. So she has adjusted your plan.

 

[Creature]

I know that "LSU" (in quotes bc technically it isn't LSU, it's a collective) offered way more to recruits than Tenn did. Both LSU and SC can help an athlete get more deals bc they provide better exposure through either the coaches name and/or the schools recent success. Jolly doesn't bring any of those things to the table and if you don't have anything going for you, then the only thing you have left to fall back on is money.

"Harper" Jolly is not her legal name anymore..

 

[Creature]

I think Tenn is going to continue to struggle with recruitsunless they increase NIL deals. If other SEC schools (LSU, SC) offer more money, what is the draw for going to UT? Coach Harper isn't involved with USA, she hasn't had a huge amount of success in coaching (and she has been at it for 20 yrs), and UT isn't an elite academic school. UT has lost out because other schools have one or more of these advantages.

Not the problem. In my opinion. Coach Harper is adjusting your recruiting strategy on the fly-focusing on future years to develop that relationship with players much earlier. Under Coach summit/Warlick-you guys use to offer late like UConn does. Around a players junior year. Now she is offering kids that are rising freshmen.

 

[SECbbfan24]

I know that "LSU" (in quotes bc technically it isn't LSU, it's a collective) offered way more to recruits than Tenn did. Both LSU and SC can help an athlete get more deals bc they provide better exposure through either the coaches name and/or the schools recent success. Jolly doesn't bring any of those things to the table and if you don't have anything going for you, then the only thing you have left to fall back on is money.

Surprising a school and program like TN doesn’t have organizations locally that can participate in that.

In LSUs case, I know Kim partnered with many local businesses and organizations where the entire team and walk ons get the exact same NIL benefits. It’s for the team collectively and everyone is treated the same. Of course people like Flaujae and Reese get their own deals and opportunities but it’s to be expected your better/more popular players will get those bigger deals

SC does the same. Dawn works hard to get deals for her entire team as well. Obviously with that success comes more opportunities as well

 

[Ladeeeeda]

I think its a mistake to fire Coach Harper. Wen you guys got rid of Coach Fulmer-it resulted in about 20yrs of futility until coach Heupel this year. Just stick to the plan and give her the support she needs. You guys are mad at recruiting. Well in WBB -its all abut the relationships. I believe your staff is focused on forging relationships in 2024 & 2025 because the bad plan in recruiting ids ineffective for 2022 & 2023. So she has adjusted your plan.

I don't think Tenn should fire her either unless they find a proven, viable options and I don't think there is one right now.

"Harper" Jolly is not her legal name anymore..

You mean Harper is the name she prefers/has chosen to use? Legality of the name doesn't matter...

 

[bballnut90]

The post didn't say they offered more money. They said IF the other SEC schools offer more money, Tennessee is at a disadvantage. They also said they are at a disadvantage to LSU and Carolina have a huge advantage in coaching experience and reputation and academics. The only advantage Tennessee can offer is more NIL money.


I still think Kara Lawson is a perfect fit for Tennessee and no doubt in my mind she would bring them back into the National conversation again and quickly.

Tennessee had their shot at Lawson and I believe burned bridges with Kara. I recall her making a comment on the lack of diversity in UT's athletic department or something to that effect. I think Tennessee would have to throw a lot of money her way (significantly more than they're paying Harper) to pull her over, and in the past the program hasn't shown a willingness to do so. Kara is doing an incredible job at Duke so far and has the program positioned to become a potential powerhouse with 3 top 30 recruits on board next year, including #3 overall. I don't know who they're involved with for 2024, but there are 3 kids in the top 11 who are from NC.

Duke also offers a unique ability to offer a world class education while not being restricted to the stringent admission requirements that you see at Stanford, and they're first and foremost a basketball school and have the resources/history/facilities to compete with much larger institutions. It's a win all around from a recruiting perspective. Tennessee has the history/resources/fan base, but playing for Tennessee doesn't carry the same allure that it used to. It's been 15 years since they were in the Final Four and over a decade since Summitt was the head coach. It's not the program it was, and as a result it's going to have the same inherent advantages it did during its heyday. I don't see Tennessee as an upgrade for Kara aside from the fact that she played there and loved her time at the university.

 

[triaddukefan]

I still think Kara Lawson is a perfect fit for Tennessee and no doubt in my mind she would bring them back into the National conversation again and quickly.

To paraphrase the esteemed rapper Blacc Youngsta, Why would she switch out a dime for a penny? Woo woo

Edit.. If you are over the age of 30.. Don't google the lytics or video.

 

[Bayareahusky]

looks like tenn is enjoying first time we have lost 2 consecutive games in 30 yrs glad its program is doing so well over there congrats Huskies on exemplary team , coaching, and class winners leaders and great examples in every way

 

[SECbbfan24]

Duke also offers a unique ability to offer a world class education while not being restricted to the stringent admission requirements that you see at Stanford, and they're first and foremost a basketball school and have the resources/history/facilities to compete with much larger institutions. It's a win all around from a recruiting perspective. Tennessee has the history/resources/fan base, but playing for Tennessee doesn't carry the same allure that it used to. It's been 15 years since they were in the Final Four and over a decade since Summitt was the head coach. It's not the program it was, and as a result it's going to have the same inherent advantages it did during its heyday. I don't see Tennessee as an upgrade for Kara aside from the fact that she played there and loved her time at the university.

Only obvious superiority would be the fan support. Thanks to @DefenseBB pointing out some glaring numbers in the attendance thread....

 

[tigers4ever]

How do you know that LSU and SCar "offer more money?" SCar has been open that they offer $25,000. That's per player and is a minimum and maximum share of team nerchandise sales, etc.. The 13th player on the bench gets the same as Boston through the school's NIL profit sharing. Now, Boston can have as many individual deals as her agent can get her that is not connected to the University. The school has nothing to do with her Nike deal, or Bose deal, etc.

I bet UT offers about the same $25,000 minimum but they aren't transparent about what they are doing. UT players are getting NIL dollars but nobody knows how much. Do you think Rickea goes there for nothing.

Rickea posted pics of her ride early in the wbb season and it looked like a sweet ride. I'm sure that is just one of many NIL deals she has.

 

[triaddukefan]

Only obvious superiority would be the fan support. Thanks to @DefenseBB pointing out some glaring numbers in the attendance thread....

They are superior in toxic fan support as well.