Something needs to be done about the officiating in WBB | The Boneyard

Something needs to be done about the officiating in WBB

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I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

Every game it's the same thing -- substandard officiating. The only thing that will fix this is for the NCAA to put all the officials for MBB and WBB in one pool. Otherwise, this problem will continue for at least another decade until there are a select group of experienced and competent officials who deserve, and are qualified to officiate tournament level games.

Some would point to the female officials who are working game, but it's not the female refs, its all the refs. They're just not up to the level of the game. Also, there are three referees on the floor, but they all seem to be limiting their calls to their area of the floor rather than calling everything they see, as if they're more afraid of offending their co-worker than of working as a team and getting the call correct, which should be their primary objective.

As a former official of high school basketball, football and soccer, and a college and semi-pro baseball umpire, I can attest to the fact that your peripheral vision, and overlapping views and responsibilities goes a long way to "Getting the calls right." It takes teamwork.

The replay that failed to overturn the foul call of CW is blatant proof that Getting the Calls Right was not the priority of the crew that worked the UConn-AZ game. And I see it again and again in WBB. There's little teamwork, and a lack of priority in making the correct call. All officials make mistakes; good crews fix correctable mistakes rather than letting a bad call stand. And they do it immediately with communication and teamwork.

Getting the call right is not showing up another official, it's simply the hallmark of a good officiating crew. Watch any NFL, MLB, NBA, or NCAA MBB game and you see team officiating. While this is easier to do in a sport that doesn't have continuous action, you can still see it in MBB, and even ice hockey. Get the call right -- nothing else matters.

Atrocious officiating is hurting WBB, even as overall, and top tier, talent and competitiveness continues to improve. It's not just the usual missed calls that are part of every sports event, it's the repeated failure to call the most obvious, egregious and even dangerous plays, such as Paige getting violently pushed and later steam-rolled by opposing players. Both of these happened within view of all three officials. And all of them ignored it.

This isn't just bad officiating, this is bad administration of the sport by the NCAA.

With the rules being almost identical between the men's and women's game, there's no reason to not mandate that officials work both. It would remove the one albatross from WBB, while also making the game safer for all players, but especially smaller players. Most of all it would make the game better. Overall officiating will also continue to improve because less experienced officials will get to work with better and more experienced officials. It will also help ensure that the outcome of important games are less likely to be decided by bad officiating. It's time for the NCAA to address this problem and make a change.
 
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Aluminny69

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First, I don't disagree with anything in your post. But I do have some random thoughts of my own. I commented before this game that any game that Dee Kantner refs will have a lot of fouls. As an aside, Dee has been doing final fours for 24 years, and Rebecca still holds a grudge over a bad foul call Dee made. So, I would hope that, as soon as the coaches found out the Dee was reffing, they would warn the players about ticky tack fouls. ( e.g. ONOs first foul.) There were 44 fouls called in this game. This game was not called like the rest of the games in the tournament, which confused even the Arizona players.

There seems to be a lot of flopping in WBB, is it just me? Is the men's game that bad? To me, acting like you got knocked down is tantamount to cheating, and I'm surprised more players don't get hurt doing it. Only the two players involved know how hard the contact was. But they are forcing the Refs to decide. I wish they could do something to stop this practice. I just find it hard to believe that players could fall down that easily.
 
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As an old coach, I feel that the calls even them selves out over the course of a game or season. And I liked it before hey got all the electronics involved. Some are called right, some wrong. It all depends on which sideline you are on!
 

UcMiami

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That call on Williams was an interesting situation for the refs. The ref who made the call made it on the 'swipe' thinking Williams hit arm. The video review was to determine which player made the swipe. Unfortunately, the call cannot be reversed, so there is a shooting foul and while the review showed Williams only contacted with a fingernail 'all ball', the choice was call a foul on Nika who no ref whistled for a foul or thought had fouled, or let the original player whistled suffer the results of a mistaken foul call. The fact that it was her fifth foul was unfortunate, but I think they made the correct decision to uphold the call on her - it would be unfair to change the foul to another player to correct a 'bad call' that cannot be corrected.
 
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I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

Every game it's the same thing -- substandard officiating. The only thing that will fix this is for the NCAA to put all the officials for MBB and WBB in one pool. Otherwise, this problem will continue for at least another decade until there are a select group of experienced and competent officials who deserve, and are qualified to officiate tournament level games.

Some would point to the female officials who are working game, but it's not the female refs, its all the refs. They're just not up to the level of the game. Also, there are three referees on the floor, but they all seem to be limiting their calls to their area of the floor rather than calling everything they see, as if they're more afraid of offending their co-worker than of working as a team and getting the call correct, which should be their primary objective.

As a former official of high school basketball, football and soccer, and a college and semi-pro baseball umpire, I can attest to the fact that your peripheral vision, and overlapping views and responsibilities goes a long way to "Getting the calls right." It takes teamwork.

The replay that failed to overturn the foul call of CW is blatant proof that Getting the Calls Right was not the priority of the crew that worked the UConn-AZ game. And I see it again and again in WBB. There's little teamwork, and a lack of priority in making the correct call. All officials make mistakes; good crews fix correctable mistakes rather than letting a bad call stand. And they do it immediately with communication and teamwork.

Getting the call right is not showing up another official, it's simply the hallmark of a good officiating crew. Watch any NFL, MLB, NBA, or NCAA MBB game and you see team officiating. While this is easier to do in a sport that doesn't have continuous action, you can still see it in MBB, and even ice hockey. Get the call right -- nothing else matters.

Atrocious officiating is hurting WBB, even as overall, and top tier, talent and competitiveness continues to improve. It's not just the usual missed calls that are part of every sports event, it's the repeated failure to call the most obvious, egregious and even dangerous plays, such as Paige getting violently pushed and later steam-rolled by opposing players. Both of these happened within view of all three officials. And all of them ignored it.

This isn't just bad officiating, this is bad administration of the sport by the NCAA.

With the rules being almost identical between the men's and women's game, there's no reason to not mandate that officials work both. It would remove the one albatross from WBB, while also making the game safer for all players, but especially smaller players. Most of all it would make the game better. Overall officiating will also continue to improve because less experienced officials will get to work with better and more experienced officials. It will also help ensure that the outcome of important games are less likely to be decided by bad officiating. It's time for the NCAA to address this problem and make a change.
Without a doubt. It's getting so bad I almost feel like not watching any longer.
 

Aluminny69

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That call on Williams was an interesting situation for the refs. The ref who made the call made it on the 'swipe' thinking Williams hit arm. The video review was to determine which player made the swipe. Unfortunately, the call cannot be reversed, so there is a shooting foul and while the review showed Williams only contacted with a fingernail 'all ball', the choice was call a foul on Nika who no ref whistled for a foul or thought had fouled, or let the original player whistled suffer the results of a mistaken foul call. The fact that it was her fifth foul was unfortunate, but I think they made the correct decision to uphold the call on her - it would be unfair to change the foul to another player to correct a 'bad call' that cannot be corrected.
Valid point. Christyn mentioned that she thought the foul might have been on ONO, so there was that option. But as you say, the Ref thought he saw a foul, and by rules, was not allowed to change it. I think that rule needs to be changed.
 

UcMiami

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Valid point. Christyn mentioned that she thought the foul might have been on ONO, so there was that option. But as you say, the Ref thought he saw a foul, and by rules, was not allowed to change it. I think that rule needs to be changed.
Changing that rule is a whole nother can of worms - challenge calls and non calls and we end up with 5 hour games!!!
 
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Deadrody, I switched to "Gold Rush" on the Discovery Channel a few times during the game as I couldn't watch for several reasons.
 

UcMiami

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We've been complaining about women's officials for years. And the reality is fans complain about refs almost everywhere in every sport. The number of camera angles and slow mo make every call in every sport suspect.

The biggest issue I think is not the specific calls but the consistency - I think the NFL with 'teams' of officials that travel together is better than a mix and match process as the teams can review and become consistent among themselves and teams can anticipate how a team of officials sees the game. In WCBB it seems that every officials is in their own world and aren't consistent within the three working a game.
 
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I would like to see some consistency between the games. It is fine to say that in each game, the players have to see how the refs are calling the game, but is it fair for the players to have to make huge adjustments from one game to the next? Case in point is the last two UConn games. Very physical game with Baylor (too physical, actually), and 30 fouls called. Far less physical game with Arizona and 44 fouls called. That's ~50% more fouls called in a less physical game. I think the disparity in the refereeing from game to game can be too wide and it leaves the players guessing what is okay and what isn't.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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There seems to be a lot of flopping in WBB, is it just me? Is the men's game that bad? To me, acting like you got knocked down is tantamount to cheating, and I'm surprised more players don't get hurt doing it. Only the two players involved know how hard the contact was. But they are forcing the Refs to decide. I wish they could do something to stop this practice. I just find it hard to believe that players could fall down that easily.
2 quick stories - first, attending a Duke in-season tourney (Rutgers was playing at Clemson, IIRC, so took the opportunity to see Duke, Joe Ciampi's Auburn, Creighton and someone else (good) in Cameron - seats behind the bench) - in any case, Duke players were practicing "flopping" during the warm-up - and refs were joking with them about it.

On a more serious note, a player called Mery Andrade that played for ODU in the late '90s flopped repetitively in a Final Four game, stepping on former ref Dennis DeMayo's last nerve. He warned her, she flopped again, he called the foul on her. Possibly fouling her out. And DeMayo confirmed this story in a side conversation with my wife at a Rutgers fan club meeting years ago where he was brought by the conference to explain refereeing.
 

nwhoopfan

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I would like to see some consistency between the games. It is fine to say that in each game, the players have to see how the refs are calling the game, but is it fair for the players to have to make huge adjustments from one game to the next? Case in point is the last two UConn games. Very physical game with Baylor (too physical, actually), and 30 fouls called. Far less physical game with Arizona and 44 fouls called. That's ~50% more fouls called in a less physical game. I think the disparity in the refereeing from game to game can be too wide and it leaves the players guessing what is okay and what isn't.
To add on to that, I often see differences in how games are officiated from one half to another. That's even harder to adjust to.
 

nwhoopfan

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2 quick stories - first, attending a Duke in-season tourney (Rutgers was playing at Clemson, IIRC, so took the opportunity to see Duke, Joe Ciampi's Auburn, Creighton and someone else (good) in Cameron - seats behind the bench) - in any case, Duke players were practicing "flopping" during the warm-up - and refs were joking with them about it.
I think it's pretty well known Duke mbb was probably the first program to noticeably employ flopping as part of their defensive strategy. It might have taken a while, but eventually it spread throughout the game, and on both offense and defense.

I could've sworn at one point there was an initiative to try to cull the flopping epidemic by giving refs the option to call a technical foul on floppers, but that obviously didn't take.
 

Tonyc

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If you have mediocre refs then you need more refs who can see whats going on. Hey I volunteer.
 
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Changing that rule is a whole nother can of worms - challenge calls and non calls and we end up with 5 hour games!!!
I agree wholeheartedly but isn’t that the crux of the problem? I would argue changing SOME calls but not others makes sports inherently more unfair. Talking heads and replay in general have done more to take the fun and joy out of sports than all the bad calls put together. The ridiculousness in the aftermath of the end of the Baylor game became the “one and only” sole story of the game, with everybody but Mother Teresa from the grave chiming in and was a particularly fine example of the absurdity that sports have evolved into.
 
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Some fouls are obvious, some aren’t. I actually object to fouls where the player who scores but is touched, gets a free throw. Half the time I can barely see the foul. Fouls are subjective. Live with it.
 
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First - I agree.

Second - it was pervasive and blatant across many of the games I watched, so not an anomaly.

Third - it undermines everything. The whole Tournament we were bombarded with media about the women's game and how it should get more respect, etc., etc.

But its hard to watch when officiating changes the flow of the game such we can't focus on the skill of the players/coaches rather we fume at, what are often, momentum changing bad calls.

I go tomorrow night to see live and I've been to the Championship game before, but I go with hesitation and a distaste in my mouth lessening my excitement for the contest.
 
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As I see it the major problem with officiating is that the 'Best of the best " are culled from a very poor pool to begin with. It's not just excellent peripheral that is necessary, but also visual processing speed. The standards for officials in this respect are very low. Officials were originally just fans pulled out of the stands and while the criteria has been elivated from that its not good enough. The level and speed of the games have our run the officials abilities to keep up.

To be a good official , especially in basketball, requires a high degree of skill level in specific areas. There seems to be no minimum standard being enforced. At present anyone that wants to be an official just needs to apply whether they have the skills to do so or not. It would not take much to give vision and processing speed tests to eliminate those that do not possess those skills.

Officiating could be a college course with minimum enterance standards and grades. It should be treated as any other profession is. Of course the "good ole boy " and now " good ol girl " system would not like that at all. They want to keep the standards low so that they don't lose their jobs. What might help is if the wages made the job more competative. The officials are as important, perhaps even more important than any individual athlete playing the sport.
 
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Anything to get the call right is a necessary improvement. A limited number of challenges would work like in MLB and the NFL. Christyn being called for a block when she was 3 to 4 ft in front of the restricted area and the Phantom reviewed 5th foul would be to plays if I was a coach would call to be reviewed. The problem is when you have too many calls that want to be reviewed. The refs should also be graded and the bad ones don't do tournament games and only the best do the sweet sixteen. Knowing they will be reviewed will make them better. Grading will make them better.
 
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Part of the issue that is correctable is the grading system in women's basketball. With men's college basketball, the top graded refs get to participate in the top leagues and most important playoff games. I was told this is similar in women's basketball but the results don't seem to support this practice.
 
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I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

Every game it's the same thing -- substandard officiating. The only thing that will fix this is for the NCAA to put all the officials for MBB and WBB in one pool. Otherwise, this problem will continue for at least another decade until there are a select group of experienced and competent officials who deserve, and are qualified to officiate tournament level games.

Some would point to the female officials who are working game, but it's not the female refs, its all the refs. They're just not up to the level of the game. Also, there are three referees on the floor, but they all seem to be limiting their calls to their area of the floor rather than calling everything they see, as if they're more afraid of offending their co-worker than of working as a team and getting the call correct, which should be their primary objective.

As a former official of high school basketball, football and soccer, and a college and semi-pro baseball umpire, I can attest to the fact that your peripheral vision, and overlapping views and responsibilities goes a long way to "Getting the calls right." It takes teamwork.

The replay that failed to overturn the foul call of CW is blatant proof that Getting the Calls Right was not the priority of the crew that worked the UConn-AZ game. And I see it again and again in WBB. There's little teamwork, and a lack of priority in making the correct call. All officials make mistakes; good crews fix correctable mistakes rather than letting a bad call stand. And they do it immediately with communication and teamwork.

Getting the call right is not showing up another official, it's simply the hallmark of a good officiating crew. Watch any NFL, MLB, NBA, or NCAA MBB game and you see team officiating. While this is easier to do in a sport that doesn't have continuous action, you can still see it in MBB, and even ice hockey. Get the call right -- nothing else matters.

Atrocious officiating is hurting WBB, even as overall, and top tier, talent and competitiveness continues to improve. It's not just the usual missed calls that are part of every sports event, it's the repeated failure to call the most obvious, egregious and even dangerous plays, such as Paige getting violently pushed and later steam-rolled by opposing players. Both of these happened within view of all three officials. And all of them ignored it.

This isn't just bad officiating, this is bad administration of the sport by the NCAA.

With the rules being almost identical between the men's and women's game, there's no reason to not mandate that officials work both. It would remove the one albatross from WBB, while also making the game safer for all players, but especially smaller players. Most of all it would make the game better. Overall officiating will also continue to improve because less experienced officials will get to work with better and more experienced officials. It will also help ensure that the outcome of important games are less likely to be decided by bad officiating. It's time for the NCAA to address this problem and make a change.
woe unto those who bit of the poison apple
 
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That call on Williams was an interesting situation for the refs. The ref who made the call made it on the 'swipe' thinking Williams hit arm. The video review was to determine which player made the swipe. Unfortunately, the call cannot be reversed, so there is a shooting foul and while the review showed Williams only contacted with a fingernail 'all ball', the choice was call a foul on Nika who no ref whistled for a foul or thought had fouled, or let the original player whistled suffer the results of a mistaken foul call. The fact that it was her fifth foul was unfortunate, but I think they made the correct decision to uphold the call on her - it would be unfair to change the foul to another player to correct a 'bad call' that cannot be corrected.
I don't agree. The correct call should be the correct call. Why have replay? Fair is fair.
 
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One problem is that while the "top refs" are assigned to these games, they don't work well as a team. Dee Kantner was calling every touch foul committed while Chuck Gonzalez was allowing physical play under the basket. The ref under the basket called nothing on Chrsten's play, but Kantner called a foul from half court. These refs might have never worked together. Since the refs rotate positions the whole game, how can the players adjust to the style of foul calls?
 
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First - I agree.

Second - it was pervasive and blatant across many of the games I watched, so not an anomaly.

Third - it undermines everything. The whole Tournament we were bombarded with media about the women's game and how it should get more respect, etc., etc.

But its hard to watch when officiating changes the flow of the game such we can't focus on the skill of the players/coaches rather we fume at, what are often, momentum changing bad calls.

I go tomorrow night to see live and I've been to the Championship game before, but I go with hesitation and a distaste in my mouth lessening my excitement for the contest.
it seems that the playground system of calling your own fouls works better. if you start cheating and making numerous and questionable calls a nuclear explosion by the other team balances things out.
 

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