Petiti verbalizing contraction (Ross Dellenger article)

[shizzle787]

I’m not sure how you can read an article that says explicitly that FCS and non-football schools have too much power and that they want to cut them out and come up with a future state that includes 5 of the old D 1-AAA (non basketball) conferences. This is about consolidation of revenue.. Cinderella isn’t who they want the money to go too, they’ll craft their own (remember the discussion about Penn State or Northwestern trying to end their NCAA Tourny appearance drought).

They’ll get through the political opposition by not kicking schools out, but letting them opt-in… if they meet certain standards that make it cost prohibitive for non-power schools (I.E. must fully fund football for X scholarships comprising full cost of attendance plus X living expenses; must fund X sports and show X million in athletic expenditures). They’ll do it and also say they’re trying to level the playing field for disadvantaged schools who can’t keep up.

We’re already seeing that to an extent with the new D1 requirements. You want in, it’s $5M up front, 16 fully funded sports with annual spending of at least $6M on athletic grant in aid. Think that, but on a much, much higher level.

He also mentions not wanting to change the tournament format. You can't keep a 64-team tournament with a few Cinderellas if you only have 8 conferences. (Financially, the NCAA (and big schools) need the revenue that comes from the tournament.) You need a few more. Enter the A-10, WCC, MVC, and Ivy. As with all things in life, compromises will be made.

There are will be 27 non-P4 conferences going forward. The standard will be set so that some others can also opt in to the highest division. The big schools can't leave the NCAA liability shield and can't deal with anti-trust lawsuits.

I'm well aware of the opting in approach as opposed to kicking out. That is what I am suggesting.

 

[ZooCougar]

I’m not sure how you can read an article that says explicitly that FCS and non-football schools have too much power and that they want to cut them out and come up with a future state that includes 5 of the old D 1-AAA (non basketball) conferences. This is about consolidation of revenue.. Cinderella isn’t who they want the money to go too, they’ll craft their own (remember the discussion about Penn State or Northwestern trying to end their NCAA Tourny appearance drought).

They’ll get through the political opposition by not kicking schools out, but letting them opt-in… if they meet certain standards that make it cost prohibitive for non-power schools (I.E. must fully fund football for X scholarships comprising full cost of attendance plus X living expenses; must fund X sports and show X million in athletic expenditures). They’ll do it and also say they’re trying to level the playing field for disadvantaged schools who can’t keep up.

We’re already seeing that to an extent with the new D1 requirements. You want in, it’s $5M up front, 16 fully funded sports with annual spending of at least $6M on athletic grant in aid. Think that, but on a much, much higher level.

Basically a franchise fee.

 

[hoopsfan22]

He also mentions not wanting to change the tournament format. You can't keep a 64-team tournament with a few Cinderellas if you only have 8 conferences. (Financially, the NCAA (and big schools) need the revenue that comes from the tournament.) You need a few more. Enter the A-10, WCC, MVC, and Ivy. As with all things in life, compromises will be made.

There are will be 27 non-P4 conferences going forward. The standard will be set so that some others can also opt in to the highest division. The big schools can't leave the NCAA liability shield and can't deal with anti-trust lawsuits.

I'm well aware of the opting in approach as opposed to kicking out. That is what I am suggesting.

How is it an anti-trust issue? The NCAA already has multiple levels of competition.

 

[shizzle787]

How is it an anti-trust issue? The NCAA already has multiple levels of competition.

If they restrict tournament access to only the P4 or P4 + Big East, they open themselves up to anti-trust litigation. The CFP allows one G5 in going forward for this very reason.

 

[hoopsfan22]

If they restrict tournament access to only the P4 or P4 + Big East, they open themselves up to anti-trust litigation. The CFP allows one G5 in going forward for this very reason.

But they already do don't they? Can Division 2 teams get into the Division 1 tournament?

 

[shizzle787]

But they already do don't they? Can Division 2 teams get into the Division 1 tournament?

G5 teams are part of FBS. They didn’t previously but there were no auto bids before in the CFP.

 

[JohnFSilver]

If you read that article it appears to say that the cut off is all FBS schools. By that definition we would make the cut. It wouldn't surprise me if we got a dramatically reduced share

I am assuming fbs conferences.

 

[billybud]

They’ll just redefine FBS into something else. Instead of FBS they’ll have the A (autonomous) Division, B etc

 

[AZHuskiePop]

But they already do don't they? Can Division 2 teams get into the Division 1 tournament?

There are 360 D1 basketball Teams Actually 32 conferences as a conference not an individual team currently has access to the tournament . Actually it’s the expansion and inclusive nature of the tourney that makes March Madness such a compelling event .
Any team by filling certain criteria has the option to move up into a D1 conference. It requires an investment.
This certainly Is an antitrust issue cutting out conferences. , Usually only a dozen or so advance to round 2 . So the money the small conferences earn is chump change.
These guys a simple thieves in $1000 suits .
They will eventual destroy College athletics

 

[billybud]

It ain’t about basketball. They are going after the billions of CFP bucks.

 

[Ldandy]

Sankey is not shy about telegraphing what he and his Big Ten soul mate are up to...

"You're assigning all the legal and financial responsibility to a nine-member group that has a minority representation from the [power] groups that are generating the financial and legal realities," Sankey said earlier this summer. "It really is backwards."

He continued speaking about power conference influence: "That's our world. To assign decision-making authority to a room that is not invested the same way is long-term problematic. That's as direct and blunt as I could be."

Say what you want about Sankey, but he’s not wrong. Why should Alabama, Michigan, or Texas have policy dictated to them by Wichita State or DePaul? These programs have almost nothing in common outside of a shared TV basketball tournament. The NCAA best listen to what is being said, and the other conferences better be ready to fall in line. If not The P2/P4 will fund their own vision of college athletics which will ultimately compromise sustainability for all of The G5 & FCS.

 

[hoopsfan22]

There are 360 D1 basketball Teams Actually 32 conferences as a conference not an individual team currently has access to the tournament . Actually it’s the expansion and inclusive nature of the tourney that makes March Madness such a compelling event .
Any team by filling certain criteria has the option to move up into a D1 conference. It requires an investment.
This certainly Is an antitrust issue cutting out conferences. , Usually only a dozen or so advance to round 2 . So the money the small conferences earn is chump change.
These guys a simple thieves in $1000 suits .
They will eventual destroy College athletics

So what stops the NCAA from creating another level with a higher criteria than D1? I keep hearing anti-trust, but it sounds like we're talking about doing something that has already been done. When the other divisions were created was that an anti-trust issue? The NCAA can create a "Division Zero" and set the criteria for what it takes to move up to that level the same way it did with Division 1, 2, and 3.

 

[CL82]

I am assuming fbs conferences.

Non-football playing and FCS members have “too much influence” on certain rule-making committees, he says. Small-school votes continue preventing rule changes that his conference can afford."

Sounds to me like the cut off is FBS since he is specifically excluding non-football playing and FCS schools.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Two points here.

1. Ncaa is all about Cinderella's? Not really. It’s fun. Yes, St. Peter/Loyola captured some heart, but that is one weekend a year. No one puts up with the 360 team monstrous governing structure for all sports to preserve two days of basketball.

Again. Overstating hoops too much. The people are gonna watch what ever is on the tv.

2. FBS. I think they may drop it to 80-90. That bottom 30 is a problem. Probably should go to two divisions of FBS with a way to, over multiple years, work your way up to the premier division like soccer. Or if you suck, move down.

 

[shizzle787]

Two points here.

1. Ncaa is all about Cinderella's? Not really. It’s fun. Yes, St. Peter/Loyola captured some heart, but that is one weekend a year. No one puts up with the 360 team monstrous governing structure for all sports to preserve two days of basketball.

Again. Overstating hoops too much. The people are gonna watch what ever is on the tv.

2. FBS. I think they may drop it to 80-90. That bottom 30 is a problem. Probably should go to two divisions of FBS with a way to, over multiple years, work your way up to the premier division like soccer. Or if you suck, move down.

I’m not saying there should be a ton of Cinderellas. I’m saying there should still be a few though. I think Division 1 has been bloated for too long.

 

[Ha Who]

Say what you want about Sankey, but he’s not wrong. Why should Alabama, Michigan, or Texas have policy dictated to them by Wichita State or DePaul? These programs have almost nothing in common outside of a shared TV basketball tournament. The NCAA best listen to what is being said, and the other conferences better be ready to fall in line. If not The P2/P4 will fund their own vision of college athletics which will ultimately compromise sustainability for all of The G5 & FCS.

For the same reason each state has two senators

 

[bobbyinaz]

Non-football playing and FCS members have “too much influence” on certain rule-making committees, he says. Small-school votes continue preventing rule changes that his conference can afford."

Sounds to me like the cut off is FBS since he is specifically excluding non-football playing and FCS schools.

Based on that statement the cutoff will be whoever can afford the changes they want.

 

[CL82]

Based on that statement the cutoff will be whoever can afford the changes they want.

Effectively.

 

[JeepCSC]

I’m not saying there should be a ton of Cinderellas. I’m saying there should still be a few though. I think Division 1 has been bloated for too long.

The most famous high school tournament in the country was the Indiana High School Basketball Tournament. It was a wide-open tournament, built its popularity on underdogs advancing far, and gave us a storyline that we measure all Cinderella’s against.

And yet within a decade of the movie, the tournament had split up into different classes based on school enrollment. America literally killed the Hoosiers dream and no one cared. The NCAA as is is definitely not untouchable.

 

[billybud]

In a big state....Florida...the high schools play for championships in their category...

Nine categories...9 champions...

Football Brackets - Florida High School Athletic Association

Previous Results 2023 State Championships Ken Riley Field at Bragg Memorial Stadium (Tallahassee) Dec. 7-9, 2023 Championship Brackets State

fhsaa.com

 

[JohnFSilver]

I’m not saying there should be a ton of Cinderellas. I’m saying there should still be a few though. I think Division 1 has been bloated for too long.

No one cares about the cinderellas. Us fans up here in Connecticut, for too long, have looked at things with these kids glasses on.

Gotta look at this landscape as an adult. This isn’t milk and cookies anymore.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

No one cares about the cinderellas. Us fans up here in Connecticut, for too long, have looked at things with these kids glasses on.

Gotta look at this landscape as an adult. This isn’t milk and cookies anymore.

I think the point is that while the fans of the blue bloods/higher aspiration program fans don't care as much about Cinderellas, the rest of the country does and ALL of those eyeballs are what makes March Madness so profitable.

 

[Hoophound]

In a big state....Florida...the high schools play for championships in their category...

Nine categories...9 champions...

Football Brackets - Florida High School Athletic Association

Previous Results 2023 State Championships Ken Riley Field at Bragg Memorial Stadium (Tallahassee) Dec. 7-9, 2023 Championship Brackets State

fhsaa.com

It’s the same in CT. Lots of big cities and small towns mixed with medium to large suburbs, resulting in multiple classifications. I think there are 6 classes right now. However, some sports have fewer classes than others. Most sports are broken down into 4 classes, LL, L, M and S.

 

[Chin Diesel]

In a big state....Florida...the high schools play for championships in their category...

Nine categories...9 champions...

Football Brackets - Florida High School Athletic Association

Previous Results 2023 State Championships Ken Riley Field at Bragg Memorial Stadium (Tallahassee) Dec. 7-9, 2023 Championship Brackets State

fhsaa.com

For football they completely re-drew all the classes and broke them in to metro, suburbs and rural.

The big city schools made all but impossible for equally sized schools from less dense areas to compete.

Football Classifications Available for 2022-23 & 2023-24

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – In February, the FHSAA Board of Directors voted to restructure Policy 12 for football classifications. Moving from an eight (8) class, enrollment only separation component, to organizing into three (3) divisions; Metro, Suburban, and Rural, and then factoring in enrollment...

fhsaa.com

 

[Hoophound]

I thinkbthe point is that while the fans of the blue bloods/higher aspiration program fans don't care as much about Cinderellas, the rest of the country does and ALL of those eyeballs are what makes March Madness so profitable.

Agreed. People get roped in by the stories, particularly people that don’t watch during the regular season. The participation in tourney brackets also ratchets up casual fan interest. Those people don’t care if UConn is playing UK or Duke is playing Michigan. They want to see David vs Goliath.