OT: This weekend, talked to northeast public U. administrators about UConn

[upstater]

Three people said they are trying to recruit the state harder than ever before. Why? Conn. has always had the history of having excellent students (but so do NY state and Mass.). Conn. has always had a history of more good students leaving the state for school elsewhere than going to college instate. This factor is key. It is very unusual. Especially in the northeast. You combine good students with a willingness to leave state, and Conn. becomes a recruiting ground. The other state schools in the region (Rutgers, SUNY, Penn State) are just as selective as Uconn. Similar numbers. In the past, Conn. residents went to private school in much higher numbers than students from nearby and other states. That's the key population right there. More students are now favoring publics than ever before.

When I add it all up, my conclusion is that UConn could stand to expand the number of seats at the school without hurting its selectivity and ranking very much. This means that Uconn is going to be a much bigger school in the future.

Sooner or later, theya re going to have to mow down and pave over Storrs and Mansfield. Sooner or later, they're going to build a big road to the school from the highway.

It's inevitable.

 

[TRest]

Three people said they are trying to recruit the state harder than ever before. Why? Conn. has always had the history of having excellent students (but so do NY state and Mass.). Conn. has always had a history of more good students leaving the state for school elsewhere than going to college instate. This factor is key. It is very unusual. Especially in the northeast. You combine good students with a willingness to leave state, and Conn. becomes a recruiting ground. The other state schools in the region (Rutgers, SUNY, Penn State) are just as selective as Uconn. Similar numbers. In the past, Conn. residents went to private school in much higher numbers than students from nearby and other states. That's the key population right there. More students are now favoring publics than ever before.

When I add it all up, my conclusion is that UConn could stand to expand the number of seats at the school without hurting its selectivity and ranking very much. This means that Uconn is going to be a much bigger school in the future.

Sooner or later, theya re going to have to mow down and pave over Storrs and Mansfield. Sooner or later, they're going to build a big road to the school from the highway.

It's inevitable.

The big problem on campus expansion, from what I understand, is that the current campus is bleeding the Fenton River watershed dry. Without knowing anything about land use management, etc., I don't know what the available options are to keep adding population to the area.

 

[SubbaBub]

The big problem on campus expansion, from what I understand, is that the current campus is bleeding the Fenton River watershed dry. Without knowing anything about land use management, etc., I don't know what the available options are to keep adding population to the area.

From a land use perspective, Storrs is about the worst place to build a modern university. Lack of adequate water, hostile local community, surrounded by environmentally sensitive land, and poor access. What it needs is a good case of eminent domain to unburden the land between 44, 32, 275, and 195 as well as improved access via 32, 195, and mass transit. Preferably a rail spur to Hartford.

 

[upstater]

The big problem on campus expansion, from what I understand, is that the current campus is bleeding the Fenton River watershed dry. Without knowing anything about land use management, etc., I don't know what the available options are to keep adding population to the area.

Well, Connecticut spends a lot of money education its citizens--so they can move elsewhere to go to school.

It's not optimal. Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Fishy]

Actually, UConn is in a wonderful position for expansion relative to most.

The water issue is basically at an end - Connecticut Water will build a network to bring two million gallons a day to campus from Tolland. Right now, the campus uses about 1.3M gallons a day, so the Connecticut Water proposal gives the campus some room to run. Connecticut Water will pay for the infrastructure and UConn will pay for the water.

The water issue was always a little misunderstood - the campus was going to get the water, it was only a matter of who would provide it to them. MDC and Windham bid on it as well, but their proposals were more expensive and less appealing logistically. (We're no longer drinking the Fenton dry...sure, it happened in 2005, but we did buy 1,000 trout to make amends for the ones we left flopping.)

We have the room, the plan, the money and the will to expand...as a result, we're expanding. The Next Gen STEM facilities will be built in Storrs and we're looking about about 7,000 additional students - there'll be 615 new ones starting in the fall of 2014.

This is a direct effort to keep the brain power in state. As Malloy said,"Other people eat our lunch. I am tired of it."

 

[RS9999X]

CT job growth is anemic. Grads have to leave
Go South young man. That's the winning ticket
The only real way to prevent grads from leaving and to be a net importer of grads is through jobs.


The point is UConn passed a threshold to becoming a national rather than New England option for High School Seniors. Its considered a more Cosmopolitan U these days.

 

[John Greene]

CT job growth is anemic. Grads have to leave
Go South young man. That's the winning ticket
The only real way to prevent grads from leaving and to be a net importer of grads is through jobs.


The point is UConn passed a threshold to becoming a national rather than New England option for High School Seniors. Its considered a more Cosmopolitan U these days.

I have seen a number of posts commenting on the student body being more geographically diverse in recent months, yet the last figures I saw from UConn maybe a year ago in the Alumni Mag. showed that non-CT residents were less than 25% of undergraduates at the Storrs campus. I assume Storrs would attract the most out of state students. Is there more recent data showing the shift to which you refer?

 

[Fishy]

I have seen a number of posts commenting on the student body being more geographically diverse in recent months, yet the last figures I saw from UConn maybe a year ago in the Alumni Mag. showed that non-CT residents were less than 25% of undergraduates at the Storrs campus. I assume Storrs would attract the most out of state students. Is there more recent data showing the shift to which you refer?

I believe that the incoming class is 32% non-resident.

 

[upstater]

I have seen a number of posts commenting on the student body being more geographically diverse in recent months, yet the last figures I saw from UConn maybe a year ago in the Alumni Mag. showed that non-CT residents were less than 25% of undergraduates at the Storrs campus. I assume Storrs would attract the most out of state students. Is there more recent data showing the shift to which you refer?

That is a very large amount of out-of-staters for a public university. You want to be at around 15% and no higher.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

That is a very large amount of out-of-staters for a public university. You want to be at around 15% and no higher.

What is the percentage of non-residents @ Mchigan? UNC? Cal?

I'm not being a wise-ass, just pure curiosity as I had thought that it would be much higher (perhaps as high as 40%) at those schools.

 

[upstater]

What is the percentage of non-residents @ Mchigan? UNC? Cal?

I'm not being a wise-ass, just pure curiosity as I had thought that it would be much higher (perhaps as high as 40%) at those schools.

UNC is 16%, but they have a cap of 18% by state law.
Cal-Berkeley is also at 16% but because of budget cuts, the administration has plans to increase to 20%.
Michigan is 42% which is ridiculous but also explains the extreme whiteness of the campus and all the beamers parked everywhere.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Thanks Upstater. I had always (erroneously) assumed that all three followed the model that Michigan does.

 

[John Greene]

I believe that the incoming class is 32% non-resident.

Thanks, hopefully a sign that the admissions folk are a little more welcoming to out of state than they were when my second child applied a few years back. At that time all I can say is they did not go out of their way to make an alumnus' daughter from AL welcome. She was a very good student who went to Vandy so maybe they thought there was little chance she would attend UConn.

 

[woomba]

In Michigan's case they increased undergrad enrollment by about 1000 or so a decade back and almost all of those seats were OOS. The number of HS grads in Michigan has already peaked so the plan is to keep the same number of IS kids the same with additional seats going to OOS.

 

[auggie22]

I believe that the incoming class is 32% non-resident.

When you factor in transfers from the branches, and community colleges, I think the overall split is 80/20. Though I would guess that has to nudge down for them to increase enrollment by that much.

 

[Fishy]

When you factor in transfers from the branches, and community colleges, I think the overall split is 80/20. Though I would guess that has to nudge down for them to increase enrollment by that much.

The branches and junior colleges are a different animal.

The idea is not to dip down to get what it likely a lesser candidate, it's to keep better students in state.

E.g. Of the nearly 7,000 student-increase, about 3,000 will be in the STEM orbit.

 

[upstater]

As part of the conversation, we talked about how the pre-professional view of education has taken over. The trickle down impact would be that specialists would start gravitating toward public universities with a graduate research mission, while the privates and liberal arts schools would pick up generalists and faculty who were not nearly as qualified as those at the publics. All the administrators, even the one from a big N'east private, agreed that for the most part, many privates would be going the way of what they used to call "finishing schools." A rich clientele at a school among peers, a school without the capacity to help them do anything else but sit on their money. Think of Mt. Holyoke and William Smith. Their past is the future. Some privates were exempt of course, but the discussion basically went like this. The Ivies, Boston U., New York U. and Johns Hopkins survive, but Northeastern and Syracuse don't. The Catholics become religious enclaves ala Bob Jones U., BYU and Liberty. Wesleyan, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury and Hamilton YES, Colgate, Sarah Lawrence, Connecticut College, Hampshire, Bucknell and Skidmore NO.

 

[auggie22]

The branches and junior colleges are a different animal.

The idea is not to dip down to get what it likely a lesser candidate, it's to keep better students in state.

E.g. Of the nearly 7,000 student-increase, about 3,000 will be in the STEM orbit.

Hope you (they) are right. If you assume 3000 new schollys for kids with 1400 sat or higher ( I think I read this is part of nextgen funding, but too lazy to confirm ), admissions can fill the other 4000 with avg sat of 1100 ( think umass caliber ) and still maintain their current mean sat. I would guess that they typically get relatively higher caliber oos applicants from surrounding states. What a trick if they can get 40% bigger AND more selective.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

From a land use perspective, Storrs is about the worst place to build a modern university. Lack of adequate water, hostile local community, surrounded by environmentally sensitive land, and poor access. What it needs is a good case of eminent domain to unburden the land between 44, 32, 275, and 195 as well as improved access via 32, 195, and mass transit. Preferably a rail spur to Hartford.

In hindsight, UConn should be where Central Connecticut is today. Centrally located, easy access to highways, and likely a +20K campus filled with non-commuting students would have do wonders for downtown New Britain. Can’t change that now.

If Pennsylvania can make a 45K student, AAU, major university with a +106K football stadium on campus, located in a valley in the middle of nowhere work, Connecticut can make Storrs work (and appears to be finally getting serious about that with Storrs Center).

 

[Adios]

In hindsight, UConn should be where Central Connecticut is today. Centrally located, easy access to highways, and likely a +20K campus filled with non-commuting students would have do wonders for downtown New Britain. Can’t change that now.

If Pennsylvania can make a 45K student, AAU, major university with a +106K football stadium on campus, located in a valley in the middle of nowhere work, Connecticut can make Storrs work (and appears to be finally getting serious about that with Storrs Center).

Both schools started out as agricultural schools. That's why they are where they are. And also how they were given the room to expand/grow as much as they have.

 

[upstater]

Both schools started out as agricultural schools. That's why they are where they are. And also how they were given the room to expand/grow as much as they have.

I know most of you are grads. I have no real interest in UConn anymore other than in sports. Thought it was interesting to hear that, while UConn is constrained in terms of how much it can/should raise tuition, it doesn't have those same restraints when it comes to a recruiting base in state. The school will grow. If sports are still around at that time, the fanbase will grow too.

One factor that no one has mentioned (not the administrators I spoke to either) is that Ne England has reciprocal agreements for state universities. It would be interesting to see how many out-of-staters come from neighboring states. If most are neighboring, then UConn does not experience the financial benefits that a school like Michigan does when admitting out-of-staters.

 

[thatguyed]

Pretty sure those reciprocal agreements only apply to majors that aren't carried in the students state, so likely they're specialty oriented degreest with kids in big numbers.

 

[The Funster]

That is a very large amount of out-of-staters for a public university. You want to be at around 15% and no higher.

Isn't this the first year that UConn raised in state tuition but not out of state tuition? I rtemember hearing something about wanting to make the classes more diverse by incentivizing out of state admissions.

 

[upstater]

Isn't this the first year that UConn raised in state tuition but not out of state tuition? I rtemember hearing something about wanting to make the classes more diverse by incentivizing out of state admissions.

Never heard anything like that, but why would they want that? Diversity is not a question of different states. You'll find more diversity walking down Whitney Avenue in New Haven than you will comparing the Boston Post Road in Orange, to Route 1 in Mass., Henrietta Road in Rochester, NY, or 7 Corners in Falls Church, VA.

 

[John Greene]

I have a first cousin who is a CCSU grad (was CCSC at the time) and is fairly active in New Britain Democratic Party. He and I have a "gotcha" relationship over our respective Alma Maters so this AM I called him to gloat a little about UConn putting more distance between itself and the state colleges.

He came back with the retort that UConn has started to play what he called a dangerous game politically. His claim is that we have started to "buy" out of state students with generous "merit" aid packages and that the percentage of OS students getting them exceeds the percentage of instate students getting them. He claims the numbers are still small but that politicians are noticing and we should be careful since they may not like the idea of using CT dollars to "subsidize" students from out of state.

Does anyone here know if this is correct?