OT: The Greatest Coaches

[Kibitzer]

I am sure there would be little argument here about a suggestion that Geno is the greatest wcbb coach. Ditto for a nomination of John Wooden for mcbb. But wait!

The howls from south of Storrs and east of Westwood on behalf of Pat and Coach K deserve to be heard. So to keep peace (or at least discourage insurrections) on Rocky Top and the Tobacco Road, let's categorize supreme greatness by century.

Consider these honors:

Best wcbb coach 20th century, Pat Summitt; best wcbb coach, 21st century. Geno.
Best mcbb coach, 20th century, John Wooden; best mcbb coach, 21st century, Coach K.

and,

Best NBA coach, 20th C., Red Auerbach; best NBA coach, 21st C., Greg Popovich.
Best NFL coach, 20th C., Vince Lombardi; best NFL coach, 21at C., Bill Belichek.​

Any thoughts, anyone? Don't all raise your hands at once.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

It very well may be a reasonable listing, though I don't like Belichek much. Note - I'm not suggesting anyone else, my like or dislike isn't a criteria.

That said, I am not disagreeing with Lombardi, but would point out that his career was not really overly long and I do think there are at least some other contenders, even if he would still get the nod.

How about college Football: 21st C - (ach, ugh) Sabin, 20th century I have no idea - too many possibilities. It might have been Paterno if his career ended differently. Could be more recent - like Bryant, or ancient, like Stagg. Just don't know how you could weight them over a long time period.

 

[CL82]

I don't disagree with your thought Kib but for GOAT in their respective sports Wooden and Geno stand alone. I doubt the Dukies would disagree and I am long past caring what Lady Vol fans think.

 

[triaddukefan]

I don't disagree with your thought Kib but for GOAT in their respective sports Wooden and Geno stand alone. I doubt the Dukies would disagree and I am long past caring what Lady Vol fans think.

I disagree

 

[Kibitzer]

I don't disagree with your thought Kib but for GOAT in their respective sports Wooden and Geno stand alone. I doubt the Dukies would disagree and I am long past caring what Lady Vol fans think.

Permit my minority view about Wooden. First, he had a notorious (and generous) booster (Sam Gilbert, IIRC) who lavishly subsidized UCLA bb recruiting (cars, apartments, cash, and other "perks").

Second, the NCAA tournament then had fewer teams, so a couple games (even at home! Westwood), then off to the Final Four. Coach K has had to deal with a much tougher road (64 teams, 3 weekends), and without a sugar-daddy behind him.

I don't much like Belichek, but he sure collects Lombardi Trophies.

 

[pinotbear]

gotta at least think about Chuck Noll for best 20th century pro football coach.

 

[VAUConnFan]

Tom Landry is the greatest NFL coach of all time. Started the Cowboys from scratch, Super Bowls with different quarterbacks, greatness throughout three different decades, innovative offenses, innovative defenses, the creator of the 4-3 and of the flex defense, brought back the shotgun from decades of oblivion; is, literally, a quarterback sneak and a short armed pass from having the Super Bowl trophy named after him, was the early innovator of computer evaluated talent. His contributions and innovations are lasting legacies, not mere fads. The Cowboys were always America's Team and the man in the hat the symbol and standard bearer.

John Wooden may well be the best college basketball coach of all time, but if I am the 12th person on the jury, I am holding out. He left the game before the big changes; Larger tournament pools; larger, more inclusive talent pools, multiple conference entries in the tournament. And, given what we know now, his program would be severely sanctioned. His hands are not clean.

Coach Auriemma is to be admired for how quickly and how well he adapted to changes in the game and changes in the talent he has coached.

Bill Belichek has to win an AFC Championship without Tom Brady to get back into the conversation.

I absolutely love Coach Popovich. He is the perfect example of how much luck plays into one's fortunes. Would he be in this conversation if he does not win the lottery in 1997? When it comes to evaluating Coach Popovich's GOAT merits, I feel it necessary to recuse myself:

 

[Scoe]

This is a great thread

College FB today- Urban Meyer and Nick Saban pretty much neck and neck winning national championships consistently developing NFL players and losing players to the NFL, and doesn't miss much of a beat because of how they develop players every year.

NFL- Bellichick and Parcells about equal, Bill Walsh is up there.

College Basketball- Geno in WBB and Calhoun in MCB (yes I'm a homer),Coach K a lot of people would say and I can't argue against it but you could argue Jim C against K he beat him twice in the FF, the year before K got to Duke, Duke had made the national title game, where was Uconn before Calhoun got there.

MLB-Tony Larussa won everywhere he's been

NHL-Scotty Bowman won a bunch of Cups, he's now an executive with the Blackhawks who can very well win their 3rd cup since he's been there which would give him 13 cups total as a coach/executive.

NBA- Auerbach, Popovich, Phil Jackson, Red Holzman, Larry Brown really in all of basketball he just can't stay in one place lol.

others
Dan Gable- 17 National Championships, just as great a coach as he was a wrestler
UNC Womens Soccer coach

 

[BigBird]

Phil Jackson wasn't too shabby. He bridged the 20th and 21st centuries, so gets omitted from Kib's original post. Understood. But Phil was the most successful of the new breed of coaches that are often referred to as "players coaches." He paved the way for coaches like Popovich who started years ago, and for guys like Steve Kerr in today's game.

 

[CL82]

Permit my minority view about Wooden. First, he had a notorious (and generous) booster (Sam Gilbert, IIRC) who lavishly subsidized UCLA bb recruiting (cars, apartments, cash, and other "perks").

Second, the NCAA tournament then had fewer teams, so a couple games (even at home! Westwood), then off to the Final Four. Coach K has had to deal with a much tougher road (64 teams, 3 weekends), and without a sugar-daddy behind him.

I don't much like Belichek, but he sure collects Lombardi Trophies.

I recognize both points, particularly the second one. The facile counter arguments are that 10>5 and the natural tendency to revere the old rather than the new.

That said, even Jim Calhoun concedes that Coach K has established himself as the greatest coach of his generation, which is no small feat.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

This is a great thread

College FB today- Urban Meyer and Nick Saban pretty much neck and neck winning national championships consistently developing NFL players and losing players to the NFL, and doesn't miss much of a beat because of how they develop players every year.

NFL- Bellichick and Parcells about equal, Bill Walsh is up there.

College Basketball- Geno in WBB and Calhoun in MCB (yes I'm a homer),Coach K a lot of people would say and I can't argue against it but you could argue Jim C against K he beat him twice in the FF, the year before K got to Duke, Duke had made the national title game, where was Uconn before Calhoun got there.

MLB-Tony Larussa won everywhere he's been

NHL-Scotty Bowman won a bunch of Cups, he's now an executive with the Blackhawks who can very well win their 3rd cup since he's been there which would give him 13 cups total as a coach/executive.

NBA- Auerbach, Popovich, Phil Jackson, Red Holzman, Larry Brown really in all of basketball he just can't stay in one place lol.

others
Dan Gable- 17 National Championships, just as great a coach as he was a wrestler
UNC Womens Soccer coach

Thanks for bringing up Scotty Bowman, I think that's a great opinion. Forget Red Holzman, he was great for what he did, but he actually didn't accomplish all that much compared to the others. Yes, Larry Brown has been a winner pretty much everywhere and a lot of longevity. Yes, Gable had a great run, and Anson Dorrance as well. Dorrance may be touched by the late UNC scandals, but he was great before that.

 

[Replicant]

Tom Landry is the greatest NFL coach of all time. Started the Cowboys from scratch, Super Bowls with different quarterbacks, greatness throughout three different decades, innovative offenses, innovative defenses, the creator of the 4-3 and of the flex defense, brought back the shotgun from decades of oblivion; is, literally, a quarterback sneak and a short armed pass from having the Super Bowl trophy named after him, was the early innovator of computer evaluated talent. His contributions and innovations are lasting legacies, not mere fads. The Cowboys were always America's Team and the man in the hat the symbol and standard bearer. View attachment 9698

Ding, Ding, Ding! Great summation. Landry also (inadvertently) created the zone defense by sending "Bullet Bob" Hayes long. Hayes being the World's fastest man at the time, would simply run past any/all defenders - and the zone defense was born in an attempt to contain Hayes.

 

[Phillyconn]

I am sure there would be little argument here about a suggestion that Geno is the greatest wcbb coach. Ditto for a nomination of John Wooden for mcbb. But wait!

The howls from south of Storrs and east of Westwood on behalf of Pat and Coach K deserve to be heard. So to keep peace (or at least discourage insurrections) on Rocky Top and the Tobacco Road, let's categorize supreme greatness by century.

Consider these honors:

Best wcbb coach 20th century, Pat Summitt; best wcbb coach, 21st century. Geno.
Best mcbb coach, 20th century, John Wooden; best mcbb coach, 21st century, Coach K.

and,

Best NBA coach, 20th C., Red Auerbach; best NBA coach, 21st C., Greg Popovich.
Best NFL coach, 20th C., Vince Lombardi; best NFL coach, 21at C., Bill Belichek.​

Any thoughts, anyone? Don't all raise your hands at once.

Phil Jackson?

 

[Wally East]

Best NBA coach, 20th C., Red Auerbach; best NBA coach, 21st C., Greg Popovich.
​

​

You misspelled "Phil Jackson"

 

[UcMiami]

Interesting discussion and the complaint about Wooden really holds for all the older coaches both pro and college - pros before free agency was a vastly different universe, college men before early exits and the NCAA taking recruiting violations seriously.
No votes for Shula? (Don't like him much myself!)