OT: LeBron

[21Huskies]

How old is Harrison Barnes and how old is LeBron James?

so you think the hatred for Lebron is deserved?

Paul Pierce can throw up gang signs and tebow mid game and he's loved and adored... Lebron gets awful advice and makes a dumb decision and he's the devil.

the fact of the matter is all the teams that thought there was an inkling of a chance to get Lebron watched that show and it was like watching an ex announce her new boyfriend on TV and tell the world they were dumping you or werent interested in you. and like most crazy, insecure people, many held a grudge against him for that. that was perpetuated thru the media and on TV and it snowballed into people throwing beer on him as he leaves an arena after a great game and the guys throwing the beer probably don't even know why they don't like the guy.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

OKC shows that you don't need 3 stars making ridiculous money to make it to the finals. All 3 of their contracts has handcuffed the team on what moves they can make to improve their bench.

Um, not yet. Durant is already a max money guy and OKC is going to have to make some tough decisions to keep this group together.

 

[sparky]

Big C's fan. LBJ was out of this world. I am not a fan of his but I admire is skill set and his consistency. He has played better than anyone in the this playoff go-round. He has to prove his mental toughness is equal to his physical toughness before I crown him anything at all. OKC will beat them if they win Saturday night. I think the C's pose a better threat to stop them with their 4 players and defense. Oh well go C's.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

How old is Harrison Barnes and how old is LeBron James?

Okay, bud, how is it worse than any other celebrity calling a press conference for any purpose whatsoever? It shows that he's got an ego, but that puts him in the same category as most professional athletes. He didn't sexually assault somebody, he didnt get drunk and run somebody over, he's with the same chick he was with in high school .... so you "hated" him since he was a teenager why? Because he's famous and successful, sounds like. And his major offense is turning his decision to sign with Miami into a party?

I have no doubt the kids got an out of control ego and is a diva, I've heard as much from people whose professions have brought them into his orbit, but the hate, and particularly the attempt to minimize how revolutionary a player he is, is just absurd.

 

[tykurez]

Here's the only problem I have with Lebron: he takes away from the fact that Dwayne Wade is the douchiest player in the league.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Agreed. Never had a problem with him in Cleveland. I thought he should leave Cleveland, but quietly, with no fanfare. I also think he made a huge mistake and should have gone to Chicago, where the existing personnel were much more complementary to his game. D-Wade plays like a shorter Lebron....they are mismatched as teamates.

In retrospect. He should've went to the Clippers. The players on that team even at the time seemed to mesh with Lebron's abilities much better.

 

[JaYnYcE]

At least admit that comparing Harrison Barnes to Lebron James wasn't a good comparsion.

 

[JaYnYcE]

so you think the hatred for Lebron is deserved?

Paul Pierce can throw up gang signs and tebow mid game and he's loved and adored... Lebron gets awful advice and makes a dumb decision and he's the devil.

the fact of the matter is all the teams that thought there was an inkling of a chance to get Lebron watched that show and it was like watching an ex announce her new boyfriend on TV and tell the world they were dumping you or werent interested in you. and like most crazy, insecure people, many held a grudge against him for that. that was perpetuated thru the media and on TV and it snowballed into people throwing beer on him as he leaves an arena after a great game and the guys throwing the beer probably don't even know why they don't like the guy.

If I throw up a thumbs up sign does that mean I'm in a gang?

 

[UConn990411]

I still can't figure out why anyone would dislike Bosh. What has he done other than sacrifice his role, show emotion, and play hard?

Well, there's the whole thing about him sitting out half of his last season in Toronto when he was fine to play because he knew he wasn't going back there.

Still, I have a hard time figuring out why people despise LeBron so much but respect Wade. Wade did the same thing as LeBron (top 3 player who teamed up with two other stars), he's a MUCH bigger whiner/, and quite frankly LeBron has carried him for the majority of these playoffs. Yet LeBron's the choker and gets all the criticism?

It's just...strange.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Well, there's the whole thing about him sitting out half of his last season in Toronto when he was fine to play because he knew he wasn't going back there.

Still, I have a hard time figuring out why people despise LeBron so much but respect Wade. Wade did the same thing as LeBron (top 3 player who teamed up with two other stars), he's a MUCH bigger whiner/, and quite frankly LeBron has carried him for the majority of these playoffs. Yet LeBron's the choker and gets all the criticism?

It's just...strange.

This is a GREAT point. Lebron gets blamed for everything when a lot of it should be on Wade. When Lebron misses a game winner he isn't clutch. When Lebron gives the ball to DWade for the last shot and Dwade misses its Lebrons fault because he should've took it himself. When Lebron fouls out and DWade takes and misses the last shot Lebron is considered not clutch because he fouled out... It truly amazes me.

 

[21Huskies]

i gotta admit... i've spent the last 2.5 years making the exact argument i (and many others) are making right now and i do it far far far too much... i argue about Lebron about twice a week like this with clients/friends/family/etc.

i'm generally laughed out of a room and told 'he's the worst, he's a , yada yada'. i don't know if i'm just lucky today to find some Lebron fans or people are finally starting to get it, but this has been a refreshing change.

 

[nomar]

There is no way to qualify a statement like that if you're team is less than 48 minutes from the Finals, I'm sorry.

Huh? What if LeBron had 48 points with 30 seconds left and the Heat were up 20? I mean, I personally wouldn't want LeBron to hit 50, but who cares if a Celtics fan does. The game's out of hand; who cares about stats.

 

[UChusky916]

If/When Lebron finally wins a championship by playing huge in the 4th quarter of a game 7 and hits a game winner, he will still somehow be criticized.

I feel bad for high-profile athletes living in this generation. Social media lets any moron speak their without consequences, whether they make a relevant/intelligent point or not. And the media just feeds into it even more.

 

[JaYnYcE]

Huh? What if LeBron had 48 points with 30 seconds left and the Heat were up 20? I mean, I personally wouldn't want LeBron to hit 50, but who cares if a Celtics fan does. The game's out of hand; who cares about stats.

Hold the ball and take the violation. Thats what teams usually do anyway if they're up by 10-15 with 30 seconds left.

 

[bmayuc]

Hold the ball and take the violation. Thats what teams usually do anyway if they're up by 10-15 with 30 seconds left.

Who gives a . 48 or 50, shoot or dribble the clock out, he CLOCKED OUT the celts. You are just being a blowhard at this point.

 

[nomar]

Hold the ball and take the violation. Thats what teams usually do anyway if they're up by 10-15 with 30 seconds left.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Say there's 2 minutes left and the Heat are up 40. I refuse to believe you don't understand the point.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

At least admit that comparing Harrison Barnes to Lebron James wasn't a good comparsion.

No. It's a perfectly valid comparison. Your posts are just silly on this subject.

 

[JaYnYcE]

No. It's a perfectly valid comparison. Your posts are just silly on this subject.

If its perfectly valid then why can't you tell me how old Harrison Barnes is and how old Lebron James is?

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I actually pity the LeBron haters. They are missing one of the greatest players of all-time in his prime.

 

[JaYnYcE]

You're being deliberately obtuse. Say there's 2 minutes left and the Heat are up 40. I refuse to believe you don't understand the point.

He shouldn't be in the game if the game is in hand, he could get injured (Say hi to Derek Rose) and it shows poor sportsmanship. At least with Bulls Philly could have made a comeback but it's a risk keeping your best player (2011 MVP by the way) in the game that late. Why is the MVP in the game when you're winning by 40 with 2 minutes left?

 

[nomar]

He shouldn't be in the game if the game is in hand, he could get injured (Say hi to Derek Rose) and it shows poor sportsmanship. At least with Bulls Philly could have made a comeback but it's a risk keeping your best player (2011 MVP by the way) in the game that late. Why is the MVP in the game when you're winning by 40 with 2 minutes left?

OK, now you're just ducking with me, right?

 

[JaYnYcE]

I don't think its necessary to have the MVP in the game when you're up by 40 at any point in the game. If you disagree then hey, May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind always be at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, and rains fall soft upon your fields. And until we meet again, May God hold you in the palm of His hand.

 

[8893]

thats what the media has brainwashed you to believe your whole life. obviously its great to win and it makes a resume look better.

but, its a lazy and illogical way of looking at individual talent. if somehow the Heat lost the game last night, by your measures, it's held against him.

just as a point of reference... he put up a postseason in '09 that had game logs of the following (all the while shooting 51% and avg 9 reb and 7 assists): 38,29,25,36,34,27,47,27,49,35,41,44,37,25 ... they didn't win the title (obviously), you're blaming him? somehow thats a knock on him?

winning is a team accomplishment regardless of what the 'experts' tell you.

How can you seriously contest that winning championships is one of the valid criterion on which to judge the greatness of a basketball player? Illogical and lazy? By his own admission, that's the reason that Lebron is in Miami. Did the media brainwash him into thinking that championships mattered in terms of his legacy as the greatest ever?

Basketball is a team sport. Being a great basketball player includes being a great teammate and finding a way to make your team win, no matter what you have to do to accomplish it. It also involves judgment. That is part of the individual talent of a basketball player, and imo it has to be considered when you are discussing a team sport. Some nights it might require dominating like he did last night; others it might require deferring to Wade as he did a few times in the Indy series. Whatever it takes to win, and winning it all is the only goal.

If athletes want to be evaluated based solely on their own physical skills, they should take up individual sports like golf, tennis, swimming or gymnastics. If they are playing a team sport, logic and rigor dictates that their ability to help their team win championships be taken into account--as one factor--when considering their greatness relative to others who have played the sport.

 

[21Huskies]

He's in Miami cause he wants to win a ring and have the success of being on a winning team. But that isn't something he controls other than his role. He is 1 guy, basketball is a team sport like you said.

Him winning a ring or not winning a ring doesn't change his greatness as an individual player and when you ask who is the 'best player ever' you are asking an individual question. MJ is the best player ever, if he played w you me and 2 other boneyarders he'd have never won a ring... He still would have been the best individual player ever.

If the Heat lost last night, are you saying there is something more Lebron could have done? If your answer is no then team success shouldn't be used to determine individual greatness.

 

[8893]

If the Heat lost last night, are you saying there is something more Lebron could have done?

Yes. There is always more that anyone could have done. In that instance, the "something more" would have been whatever was required to win.

My point is simple: I agree that it was a great individual performance irrespective of the result. But the fact that it was in a winning effort made it a greater performance. IMO you cannot properly evaluate the greatness of a performance in a team sport without considering whether it was toward a winning effort. I believe that LeBron has the ability to get there--probably the greatest package anyone has ever had toward that end. I do not believe that he is like Carmelo, a player who is singularly great but ends up being a net negative on a team. But unless LeBron gets some rings, it is legitimate to consider his lack of championships when evaluating his legacy as the greatest ever.