OT? He Said, She Said: Messy Situation For HS WBB From Louisiana

[JavaMan]

7 Girls Kicked Off HS Basketball Team
After Complaining About ‘Touchy-Feely’ Coach​

Seven girls from a high school basketball powerhouse in Louisiana were kicked off their team after complaining about inappropriate behavior from their coach. The girls are students of Salmen High School in Slidell who won the state championship in both 2013 and 2014. The coach, Panos Bountovinas, is in his first season with the team and was accused by the girls for being too ‘touchy-feely’. Here is what Kayla Sibley, one of the dismissed players, said about their new coach to the New Orleans Advocate:

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[meyers7]

Really more of a some of the girls said and some of the other girls said.

 

[watanabe]

"The girls felt that their complaints to school administrators were falling on deaf ears so they refused to show up for a recent road game in protest. That prompted the school to dismiss the girls and they also launched an investigation into the alleged behavior. The school then ruled that the allegations were unfounded.

The team lost that game by 2 points.
Whether or not their complaints were justified, they were not kicked off for complaining, as the article seems to imply.
First read, it's inciting, after re-reading, it's not.

 

[BroadwayVa]

7 Girls Kicked Off HS Basketball Team
After Complaining About ‘Touchy-Feely’ Coach​

Seven girls from a high school basketball powerhouse in Louisiana were kicked off their team after complaining about inappropriate behavior from their coach. The girls are students of Salmen High School in Slidell who won the state championship in both 2013 and 2014. The coach, Panos Bountovinas, is in his first season with the team and was accused by the girls for being too ‘touchy-feely’. Here is what Kayla Sibley, one of the dismissed players, said about their new coach to the New Orleans Advocate:

[MORE]

and [MORE]

The Administration should make it plain to ALL Coaches, male or female, that touching in any manner could be considered sexual harassment. Also, players at the beginning of the year MUST be told by the coach that if any contact or words are uncomfortable they players have an obligation to immediately bring that up with coach.
We live in a new world where many many things that once were nothing are now considered sexual in nature. And then, too you have the perverts ---
Playing HS BB or any sport should be fun. Rule of when to or when not to enter dressing rooms must be posted for all to see. The coach and his team have obligations to make this work.

 

[CL82]

The girls felt that their complaints to school administrators were falling on deaf ears so they refused to show up for a recent road game in protest. That prompted the school to dismiss the girls and they also launched an investigation into the alleged behavior. The school then ruled that the allegations were unfounded.

They weren't kicked off for complaining, they were kicked off for failing to show up at a game. That's a different thing from retaliation for filing a complaint. I'm not sure who is right here or whether is just a misunderstanding, but the headline is deliberately misleading.

FWIW - Even if his actions are benign, the coach really ought to be smarter. Talk to the team before they start getting changed and then walk out and stay out. If you are school coach or teacher, it is wise to avoid hugging kids.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Really more of a some of the girls said and some of the other girls said.

P reception vs reality. If you perceive you are being treated badly to you you are treated badly. Some have lower tolerances than other.
Some too are control freaks (yes even as kids).
It would appear EVERYONE here is right and some made wrong choices to boycott the game as some made bad choices of giving unwanted touches. Maybe everyone concerned here learned something.

 

[huskyd]

7 Girls Kicked Off HS Basketball Team
After Complaining About ‘Touchy-Feely’ Coach​

Seven girls from a high school basketball powerhouse in Louisiana were kicked off their team after complaining about inappropriate behavior from their coach. The girls are students of Salmen High School in Slidell who won the state championship in both 2013 and 2014. The coach, Panos Bountovinas, is in his first season with the team and was accused by the girls for being too ‘touchy-feely’. Here is what Kayla Sibley, one of the dismissed players, said about their new coach to the New Orleans Advocate:

[MORE]

and [MORE]

I've often wondered how female players feel when they are patted on the behind by male coaches. Many interpret this as a typical gesture w/out sexual content. But it always has to boil down to how the pattee feels. Women rightly feel possessive about their body; they get to decide how, when, and by whom it's touched. Has Geno ever addressed this?

 

[willtalk]

Misleading headlines or tweeking a story to imply something else than what actually happened is becoming common place in new reporting now days. Every reporter seems to what to write editorials rather than just reporting the news. There used to be a standard for reporters. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. To bad we are living in a country where even the literate can not comprehend the written word. A lot of people might have not picked up on the distortion presented if it had not been pointed out to them.

 

[Jeff H]

I coach high school girls. I give them a hug on senior day and a very occasional pat on the shoulder if they are feeling down about something. Other than a high five, that's it. I have never gone in their locker room when they are in there. It seems incredibly obvious that a male coach can't be too careful about making certain nothing he does could be construed as inappropriate. If this coach and the administration don't get that, then I don't get them.

 

[HGN]

Isn't that the same High School that Kalani Brown attended ?

 

[CocoHusky]

Isn't that the same High School that Kalani Brown attended ?

Yes it is.

 

[CocoHusky]

The Administration should make it plain to ALL Coaches, male or female, that touching in any manner could be considered sexual harassment.

I believe this to be an impossible standard unless you take into account the purpose of the touching. A coach demonstrating a drill like boxing out or how to get over a screen is legit touching IMO, considering the purpose is teaching. I don't think Becky Hammon is sexually harassing Manu here for example.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I believe this to be an impossible standard unless you take into account the purpose of the touching. A coach demonstrating a drill like boxing out or how to get over a screen is legit touching IMO, considering the purpose is teaching. I don't think Becky Hammon is sexually harassing Manu here for example.

The standard is used in business, government, and other organizations. Not impossible.
Sexual, verbal, or physical abuse/harassment within a group does not exist until someone complains. If you are saying because this guy isn't complaining--it's ok for her to touch the next guy or girl that sits next to her, without that persons permission???
That ain't how it works in the NEW world you live in.
Specific ruling I think is something along these lines --if you are told you are making someone uncomfortable with your words actions or deeds--that is harassment if you continue.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

The standard is used in business, government, and other organizations. Not impossible.
Sexual, verbal, or physical abuse/harassment within a group does not exist until someone complains. If you are saying because this guy isn't complaining--it's ok for her to touch the next guy or girl that sits next to her, without that persons permission???
That ain't how it works in the NEW world you live in.
Specific ruling I think is something along these lines --if you are told you are making someone uncomfortable with your words actions or deeds--that is harassment if you continue.

Take it from someone who HATES being touched - it's just a thing with me, I could pass on shaking hands if it were possible. I met many folks when I was working who were somewhat touchy / feeley, to varying degrees. Guess what - it really wasn't hard to tell when someone was just that way or were either trying to be intimidating or sexual. Since I was these folks superior (if not always in the line of command) I squelched the 2nd and 3rd, but I just tolerated the folks who meant nothing by it.

That no one will tolerate the obvious non-sexual / non-abusive is a sad statement about how the world has changed.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Misleading headlines or tweeking a story to imply something else than what actually happened is becoming common place in new reporting now days. Every reporter seems to what to write editorials rather than just reporting the news. There used to be a standard for reporters. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. To bad we are living in a country where even the literate can not comprehend the written word. A lot of people might have not picked up on the distortion presented if it had not been pointed out to them.

FWIW - Headlines aren't written by the reporters and newspapers have a history of fact-twisting headlines.
Having read the article, the reason the students didn't show up to the game is clearly stated : "they claimed concerns about their new coach were not being properly addressed." They were uncomfortable - they weren't saying he was molesting them. They took a stand - an extreme stand - to bring get the admin's attention. Seems they had the courage to speak up. Perhaps if the admin and coach had listened the situation could have been defused and clarified.

As we know, there are many instances of young women and men NOT speaking up and of "supervisors" ignoring complaints or simply passing the perpetrator onto another organization. Perhaps life was "simpler" when folks just kept quiet and people could believe that sexual misconduct wasn't committed by those in positions of power and trust. Me, I'd rather negotiate the awkwardness of the current world of human interaction.

 

[BroadwayVa]

FWIW - Headlines aren't written by the reporters and newspapers have a history of fact-twisting headlines.
Having read the article, the reason the students didn't show up to the game is clearly stated : "they claimed concerns about their new coach were not being properly addressed." They were uncomfortable - they weren't saying he was molesting them. They took a stand - an extreme stand - to bring get the admin's attention. Seems they had the courage to speak up. Perhaps if the admin and coach had listened the situation could have been defused and clarified.

As we know, there are many instances of young women and men NOT speaking up and of "supervisors" ignoring complaints or simply passing the perpetrator onto another organization. Perhaps life was "simpler" when folks just kept quiet and people could believe that sexual misconduct wasn't committed by those in positions of power and trust. Me, I'd rather negotiate the awkwardness of the current world of human interaction.

I almost said we now live in a world where small facts are hyped into being what they are not. But the truth is than nearly as long as there have been newspapers --HEADLINES in a lot of cases have been half truths or lies. Don't believe it, dig into the history of the PRESS.
A good (or bad) lawyer could take what has happened, especially the suspension, and make this into something worth a lot of money. MONEY. I don't think that living in "living a life of desperate depression"
of being quiet was good--and I agree some things are taken too far. I agree I too "would rather negotiate the awkwardness of the current world"

 

[watanabe]

The standard is used in business, government, and other organizations. Not impossible.
Sexual, verbal, or physical abuse/harassment within a group does not exist until someone complains. If you are saying because this guy isn't complaining--it's ok for her to touch the next guy or girl that sits next to her, without that persons permission???
That ain't how it works in the NEW world you live in.
Specific ruling I think is something along these lines --if you are told you are making someone uncomfortable with your words actions or deeds--that is harassment if you continue.

This is a real problem. Modify the language of the law, to where, written permission is gives rights, and written permission takes them away. paper trail.
In CA, they are pushing this for all dating and male/female relationships. No touching at all unless there is written permission.
Kindof like putting on a condom without ruining the mood. Very difficult, but protects both parties.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Watanabe---The problem is by the time the pencil is pulled out to write the permission--it's over.

My point in writing any of this is --it's better forewarned . Reputations have been ruined by being accused, not convicted. Institutions don't want to be seen as racists, sexists, genderists, etc---because some of these complaints have lead to riots and bad press.
U Virgina was ripped apart by a article in a magazine that later proved to be false and improperly checked information--the magazine is being sued--but the guys still have this cloud over them. Duke had a similar situation---it would appear that you are convicted by being accused. So avoid any IMAGE of impropriety--scoff if you want, at your peril. (the general you)
If a woman says it make her uncomfortable--or she means NO--believe her--STOP.

 

[watanabe]

Watanabe---The problem is by the time the pencil is pulled out to write the permission--it's over.

My point in writing any of this is --it's better forewarned . Reputations have been ruined by being accused, not convicted. Institutions don't want to be seen as racists, sexists, genderists, etc---because some of these complaints have lead to riots and bad press.
U Virgina was ripped apart by a article in a magazine that later proved to be false and improperly checked information--the magazine is being sued--but the guys still have this cloud over them. Duke had a similar situation---it would appear that you are convicted by being accused. So avoid any IMAGE of impropriety--scoff if you want, at your peril. (the general you)
If a woman says it make her uncomfortable--or she means NO--believe her--STOP.

Broadway VA, you are missing the most evil part of this. Nowadays men are guilty just by insinuation. It's no longer about "No" It's about just being a male.
The schools in CA have recongnized this. When I lived there, my kids had to write dating agreements as assignments. They are being trained early. When asking teachers about it they told me it was more about protecting the boys, while educating the girls it was not a good thing to make insinuations due to the damaging nature of their words in today's society. The kicker is that sex contracts are extremely important, especially in college. (taught in CA school system)

 

[Bliss]

The Administration should make it plain to ALL Coaches, male or female, that touching in any manner could be considered sexual harassment. Also, players at the beginning of the year MUST be told by the coach that if any contact or words are uncomfortable they players have an obligation to immediately bring that up with coach.
We live in a new world where many many things that once were nothing are now considered sexual in nature. And then, too you have the perverts ---
Playing HS BB or any sport should be fun. Rule of when to or when not to enter dressing rooms must be posted for all to see. The coach and his team have obligations to make this work.

I supervised and worked with women for over 30 years and held nothing but appreciation and respect for them. A good rule of thumb is, "If you would not want someone to say it or do it to your wife or daughter, then don't say or do it yourself."

 

[CL82]

It's a changed world, I guess generally for the better, but a lot has been lost. A kid in my neighborhood fell and cut his knee. When I was growing up an adult would have invited you inside gave you a popsicle or something cleaned up the cut and sent you on your way. I had the kid stay outside on the front steps crying while I went inside to bandaids and Bactine. Not the end of the world by any means and the kid still got patched up. Likewise, if a parent saw one of us walking, they pick us up and give us a ride, now days, not so much.

Now days pretty much any adult/child interaction needs to be "two deep" with a second adult in the room. It's a good thing as it protects the child against the risk of abuse but it seems to me that the threat of accusation or litigation risk lurks just below the surface. The cost for protecting against that small minority of predators is that everyone is distanced. That's a shame, but I don't see an alternative. It is what it is, I guess.

 

[watanabe]

My wife is a sub teacher. She comes home and frequently remarks on her disbelief that men actually risk teaching early grade school any more. At least the ones that are left.
I've passed women broke down on the road before when traveling alone. Won't do it unless someone is in the car with me.
hard to do. was raised differently than that.