Once and for all - The Foul (or not) video

[HuskyNan]

I've seen some pretty angry postings over Saniya's final drive. Some fans say it's a foul on Morgan William, some say it's a good no foul. My opinion, fwiw, is that Saniya is lucky she wasn't called for an offensive foul. If I thought the outrage would just fade, I'd let it go but in my experience, these things fester. Let's hash it out now.

The play starts about 5:55 in this video.

 

[Suebird10fan]

Good no call. It was close but if it's a foul I think it probably has to be offensive because Saniya was out of control.

i had no complaints re officiating.

 

[triaddukefan]

 

[Wally East]

Definitely not a foul.

Watching again, I still can't believe William hits that shot

 

[VAMike23]

To me it's the type of play that you could expect to see a no-call.

 

[Biff]

Here's the few seconds in question with a slo-mo of the critical moments. Looking at it with this magnifying glass I see William falling back without being hit and Chong stumbling off balance over her. No call looks pretty darn good to me.

 

[Orangutan]

Relevant section of the rule book in case there any other pedants out there:

 

[JordyG]

I never complain about calls or officiating. If a team is good enough to win it should never come down to calls or officiating. Ever. To me it all has the relevancy of white noise.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I think it was a good no-call, though after the review and the flagrant-1, there's no way they were giving us a borderline call anyway.

Ironically, if they had just called the foul against Lou a common foul at the time, not even a flagrant, we would have been in the exact same position -- tied with the ball and a chance to win.

 

[UcMiami]

I am fine with the call being a no call. And agree if one is arguing officiating on a play with 15 seconds left in OT your team already lost the game in the previous 44:45 unless it is so blatant as to be undeniable.

 

[CTisballers]

what was Saniya thinking to start that early and give Mississippi state a last chance. Anyway that's not her game to drive to the hole specially in a deciding game. She's a senior with that kind a bonehead play at the end only tells me one she wanted to be the Hero for Uconn. This was a different Uconn team from what we see all year. They seem nervous and tight so once that 16 point lead came they worked they way back and I though they tried to turn a tie game into a 10 point lead every possession. But What a year both teams win in my eye. Uconn will be there to do it again next year and I'm glad we don't have to worry bout the streak anymore because it's another one that's going to start next year and maybe the next 2 years. Gabby showed last night she is ready to be the best in college basketball next season. Can't wait

 

[UCAP_Fan]

It's all over but the crying. Let's be proud of the team and enjoy the last game. Wife and I are going to a party to watch the Men's game now. Enjoy.

 

[UcMiami]

what was Saniya thinking to start that early and give Mississippi state a last chance. Anyway that's not her game to drive to the hole specially in a deciding game. She's a senior with that kind a bonehead play at the end only tells me one she wanted to be the Hero for Uconn. This was a different Uconn team from what we see all year. They seem nervous and tight so once that 16 point lead came they worked they way back and I though they tried to turn a tie game into a 10 point lead every possession. But What a year both teams win in my eye. Uconn will be there to do it again next year and I'm glad we don't have to worry bout the streak anymore because it's another one that's going to start next year and maybe the next 2 years. Gabby showed last night she is ready to be the best in college basketball next season. Can't wait

I'll tell you one thing I don't think I have seen mentioned, part of the thought process had to be 'someone better be aggressive' because I thought she and Gabby were the only two for long stretches that actually looked aggressive on offense. There seemed to be a lot of waiting around for someone else to make a play or take a shot.

That was the weakness with this team lurking - the attitude and reality that someone always had stepped up in games, but they had always stepped up early and often, and this was the last minute and no one really had except those two some of the time.

 

[Bigboote]

It sure looks to me like a play they were specifically running at that time for her. Collier and Williams had a double screen set for her, but were a little too far apart and let William through. I presume she was to take the shot if it was there or pass to Nurse or Samuelson in either corner if it wasn't there. It simply didn't develop as planned.

 

[magic]

I've seen some pretty angry postings over Saniya's final drive. Some fans say it's a foul on Morgan William, some say it's a good no foul. My opinion, fwiw, is that Saniya is lucky she wasn't called for an offensive foul. If I thought the outrage would just fade, I'd let it go but in my experience, these things fester. Let's hash it out now.

The play starts about 5:55 in this video.

Well Nan, I had dropped the subject. But since you brought it back up. I made a large part of my living breaking down film and video in usaf and civilian life, and have awards to show for it. Williams has neither squared her body or both feet, and Saniya was driving to the basket and released the ball on contact. The shot is irrelevant, since they were in the bonus.

 

[Stinger92860]

It was interesting to see UConn standing around, no movement. It's possible the play started early, but besides the screen Sayniya was on her own. It would have been nice have another timeout to use at about 16 seconds.

 

[Gus Mahler]

I'll tell you one thing I don't think I have seen mentioned, part of the thought process had to be 'someone better be aggressive' because I thought she and Gabby were the only two for long stretches that actually looked aggressive on offense. There seemed to be a lot of waiting around for someone else to make a play or take a shot.

That was the weakness with this team lurking - the attitude and reality that someone always had stepped up in games, but they had always stepped up early and often, and this was the last minute and no one really had except those two some of the time.

I'm on board with your thinking.

It seems odd to me that they would have called a play for Saniya to curl around and try to drive--surely that was not the first option. I , too, wonder if she became concerned that things were not developing as planned so she felt she had to be aggressive and take things into her own hands.

I also wonder if the clock in her head got messed up, that she thought more time had run off. Unlike some on this board, I'm persuaded that Geno and crew spend a great deal of time on situational play (see HBO special). But doing it in the Werth Center and doing it in overtime in the Final Four with 20,000 fans and tens of millions of people watching on TV are two different things.

In any event, I hope that in future telecasts relating to UConn and The Streak there is not a lot of replay on this. I hope the emphasis is on Morgan's shot. That was the finish for the ages, not Saniya's drive.

 

[willtalk]

Well Nan, I had dropped the subject. But since you brought it back up. I made a large part of my living breaking down film and video in usaf and civilian life, and have awards to show for it. Williams has neither squared her body or both feet, and Saniya was driving to the basket and released the ball on contact. The shot is irrelevant, since they were in the bonus.

You might want to study the slow motion example that Biff provided again. You are wrong on multiple levels. To start with the criteria that was outlined in Orangutans post is only one segment of the rule for what establishes defensive position. As you might notices it refers to the defensive player jumping into defensive position mostly used in respect with the intention of drawing a charge.. Williams did not jump at any time nor was it her intention of drawing an offensive foul. It was purely to establish defensive position. Her left foot ( which is key in this case ) hits and establishes position while the offensive players leading foot is still airborn and not yet past the free-throw line. This is a good four feet from the lead foot of Saniya. Williams right foot establishes position long before Saniya's left foot again hits the floor with plenty of space between the opposing feet. He is also moving backward not towards the ball handler. The rules previously mentioned in Biffs post are necessary to allow an airborn offensive player to continue their established direction. You have to allow them somewhere to land. The defensive player is allowed established position and that includes their direction of travel as well. The offensive player can not initiate contact with the defender who has a right to their own position. The offensive player can not run into a defender just because the defender is in motion. It's all about who initiates contact. Williams was playing excellent defense. In fact when Saniya came towards her established position she moved backwards to avoid contact. That's all that is required of a defender.

You stated that Saniya released her shot on contact. Not hardly! It was as most of the posters here claimed. Saniya was out of control and attempted to pull up for a shot to avoid contact. The only actual contact that took place was Saniya's left fore arm hitting Williams's chest as Williams was at least a 45 degree angle to the floor as she fell back, which was long after her shot was released. It takes no expert rather anyone who watches the video can see that. It could have not been more obvious. Saniya also was trying to avoid contact the entire time which is a good reason for the no call.

There were two key calls made in the closing min of the Stockton Regional finals that should have been no calls. They both went in the favor of SC which was unfortunate for FS.

 

[Geno-ista]

I've seen some pretty angry postings over Saniya's final drive. Some fans say it's a foul on Morgan William, some say it's a good no foul. My opinion, fwiw, is that Saniya is lucky she wasn't called for an offensive foul. If I thought the outrage would just fade, I'd let it go but in my experience, these things fester. Let's hash it out now.

The play starts about 5:55 in this video.

I'm sticking by my original comments- either offensive or no call. Nice job on that call by the refs. I didn't watch the video yet, but I thought Saniya cut back into the defender.

 

[Baroloboy]

I can't resist Nan's invitation to hash it out once and for all. Let me first point out that none of the replays in this thread are definitive but the second slow motion replay on last nights broadcast is definitive and it clearly shows this was a terrible no-call. Here's why. That replay ( but not the first. one) indisputably shows that when William first arrived in front of Soniya, Chong verred to her righ ( William's left) to try to avoid running into William. William then extended her left arm across Sonia's chest in a classic arm-bar to impede her progress. Foul number one. She then hit Sonia's right arm when Sonia still had her hands on the ball. Foul number two. Thus unless Sonia first commited a charge this replay indisputable shows she was fouled. I think it would be a real stretch to conclude that Sonia did commit an offensive foul but at least a plausible argument can be made that she did. If so it needed to be called because if she didn't commit the charge she was clearly fouled. The one outcome that is indefensible is that neither player commited a foul. It is simply wrong to say you can overlook William's foul on Sonia because Sonia might have first commited a charge. Something needed to be called

 

[UConnNick]

We were at the game. Our seats were maybe halfway up on the side court about opposite the foul line. We couldn't see Chong's play real well because we were closer to the other end of the court and her play occurred on the left side of the court from our vantage point.

They showed no replays at all during the games in the arena, so I was only able to see the replay for the first time from this video.

I clearly see it as a no call. Seeing it live at the game, with both players sprawled on the floor, you figure something should be called because there must have been contact. But we weren't close enough or sitting on that side of the floor to get a really good live look at that play. After seeing the video, it clearly looks like whatever contact there was falls into the incidental, no harm no foul category.

 

[Adios]

William is a baller. She played her cards perfectly in the last two possessions. Chong thought she would have a clear shot but William got in front out of nowhere. That should have been a foul. Oh well. Life goes on.

 

[Roger G]

It sure looks to me like a play they were specifically running at that time for her. Collier and Williams had a double screen set for her, but were a little too far apart and let William through. I presume she was to take the shot if it was there or pass to Nurse or Samuelson in either corner if it wasn't there. It simply didn't develop as planned.

You nailed it. This was clearly a called play with a double screen. Gabby was supposed to be closer to Napheesa. It allowed William to get through. Gabby even slaps her hands after her mistake. If they stop William, Saniya has an easy layup. Just look how open it would be if William were not there. The play got the 6'7" center off to the side. The play, properly executed, would have left about eleven seconds on the clock for MSU to get down the court and make a 2 to tie or a 3 to win but putting all the pressure back on them. It was good coaching, not surprisingly. Forget what Doris Burke thinks. How many National Championships does she have?

As for whether or not it was a foul call, I can understand the refs calling it nothing. There was really very little contact. However, a call would have been consistent with the way they had been calling it all game. On the other hand, in playoff games it is typical to swallow the whistle at the end of the game. Nevertheless.... Oh shoot, I need more hands.

It did seem to be fated that William win the game for them. That was my initial reaction. Geno said something akin to that post-game.

 

[ME Husky Fan]

Good no call. Why not stop on a dime, leaves the defender back-tracking and plenty of space for a short jumper? Great season, thanks for the ride. See you in October.

 

[zammie]

According to the second video provided the contact occurred between 43 second and the 47 mark below the knee