O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware | The Boneyard

O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware

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Evidence seems a bit light for such a high-powered 103-day investigation.

So the two Patriots employees texting about deflating balls for autographed items from Tom is light to you?
 

UcMiami

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Until you read it and realize what a micky mouse operation the NFL runs.
1. They have been warned that 'the Patriots may be tampering with balls before or during games' but have not done anything to alert any officials working the game or present in the stadium that there may be issue.
2. The officials do not record the inflation pressure of the balls, but state they check it. And then that same official cannot remember if he put his mark on all six kicking balls or only five. And the one he probably forgot to mark is the one that is used to start the game.
3. You have one official retiring and saving a ball because it does not have his mark, and another official retrieving the same ball and giving it to a Patriot employee to reintroduce into the game.
4. They report that someone can deflate 12 footballs in 90 seconds, but are unable to record air pressure for 24 footballs in 15 minutes.
5. This report speaks about standard deviation - Colts balls have one standard deviation, Patriots balls have another, but fail to report that standard deviation for a series of 4 numbers and a series of 11 (or 12) is not the same. Four is a very small series to extrapolate anything on.
6. Their official has in his possession and they use two pressure gauges that record pressures differing by between 1/3 and 1/2 pound of pressure - and then unsure which of the gauges is used by their official half time testers or whether they record pressures accurately or transposed them.
7. They have a rule that already allows for a 1 pound difference in inflation, they have now learned that game conditions will also affect inflation by about 1 PSI. And have determined that there are other factors that could affect their PSI measurements or the game play measurements like playing with wet balls. Inflation is a mares nest of inconsistency.
8. They obviously inflated the Patriots footballs to 13.5 or more at halftime yet there is no record of anyone complaining during the second half, nor of them playing with a ball over the allowed limit at least according to one gauge.
9. Their official recording of half time measures is so careful that the investigation concludes that one of 30 recorded number must have been transposed.
10. After the game they inspect 4 footballs from each team - no time constraints here - why didn't they record all 24 game balls and why did thy not retain all 12 balls? And why not check the kicking balls while they were at it.
11. Wilson 'generally' prepares K-Balls with week of use and a #1-6, but one assumes the 'generally' means 'sometimes'.
12. No mention made of the NFL employee fired after the game for stealing footballs intended for charity. Nor of any attempt to locate the sources of league leaks to the press including the original text message to a reporter.
13. The NFL has never done either in season testing of footballs before, during, or after games. Seems if this is a competitive advantage/disadvantage issue maybe they ought to. Science is interesting and the variables involved in pressure of a football are not simple. A few scientists had egg on their face when this first broke applying one 'law' and not another. A football stadium is not a lab nor a controlled environment and having actual real observed data with which to draw conclusion might expose 'factors' not foreseen by their scientific consultants.

Seems like pretty flimsy work. And if Kraft is to be believed - the multiple listings of 'refusal to grant a follow up interview' should actually be written as 'refusal to grant a follow-up, to the follow-up, to the follow-up' interview - but it sure supports the innuendo that is pretty clearly the conclusion.

I would also be curious to see the results of testing of say 200 Wilson delivered NFL footballs to see just what standard deviations exist in say the thickness of the leather the quality of stitching, tightness of lacing, quality of valves and bladders and how they all reacted to different prep work, and altered temperature and humidity and levels of moisture. Taken not all from the same batch, but say over a six month window of production run.
 
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So the two Patriots employees texting about deflating balls for autographed items from Tom is light to you?
Highly circumstantial at best. Not saying the Pats aren't culpable, but this report apparently doesn't prove it. I'd think you could draw a team name out of a hat, put these investigative resources on it for 3-1/2 months and come up with some actual proof that [fill in whatever team you want] committed some sort of trivial rulebending. The Patriots would have beat the Colts if they played with basketballs, whiffle balls, or hot air balloons.
 
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So the two Patriots employees texting about deflating balls for autographed items from Tom is light to you?
There is always cheating in sports. From stickum to pine tar to stealing signs. What's the big deal, suspend him if he's responsible and move on.
 

RockyMTblue2

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They're all pukes. You'd have to be a moron not to know that it was intentional and Brady wanted it and his slime ball boss was on board. In our celebrity besotted "culture" the heroes arefew and far between and you will find none in the big money game - the NFL.
 
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This franchise has a history of cheating. First it was illegal filming of opponent's practices. Then it was illegal stealing of defensive signals. Now it's illegal footballs.

The NFL is more interested in protecting the golden boy image of a future hall of famer (and his marketability) than they are of protecting the integrity of the game. From one side of their face they suspend cheating steroid users while out of the other side they say that cheating is rewarded as long as you don't get caught. The rings they get for 2015 should have zircons instead of real diamonds.


The hypocrisy in the NFL is obvious. If you are an owner you can get caught with a bag of illegally obtained drugs and walk away without charges and continue to own your team, but smoke a joint as a player and it's bye bye career.
 

Wbbfan1

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This thread will turn out like a discussion about Democrats Repbulicans. If you're a fan of the Patriots no convincing evidence Pats did anything wrong and if you dislike the Patriots , they're guilty. :)

All I know is I wouldn't want to be disciplined if the word Probably was used.
 
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I'm not a fan of the Patriots but respect what they have accomplished. I thought deflategate 1 was over and we are still trying to solve deflategate 2.....who deflated Pete Carroll's brain and caused him to make that call in the Super Bowl?
 
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Until you read it and realize what a micky mouse operation the NFL runs.
1. They have been warned that 'the Patriots may be tampering with balls before or during games' but have not done anything to alert any officials working the game or present in the stadium that there may be issue.
2. The officials do not record the inflation pressure of the balls, but state they check it. And then that same official cannot remember if he put his mark on all six kicking balls or only five. And the one he probably forgot to mark is the one that is used to start the game.
3. You have one official retiring and saving a ball because it does not have his mark, and another official retrieving the same ball and giving it to a Patriot employee to reintroduce into the game.
4. They report that someone can deflate 12 footballs in 90 seconds, but are unable to record air pressure for 24 footballs in 15 minutes.
5. This report speaks about standard deviation - Colts balls have one standard deviation, Patriots balls have another, but fail to report that standard deviation for a series of 4 numbers and a series of 11 (or 12) is not the same. Four is a very small series to extrapolate anything on.
6. Their official has in his possession and they use two pressure gauges that record pressures differing by between 1/3 and 1/2 pound of pressure - and then unsure which of the gauges is used by their official half time testers or whether they record pressures accurately or transposed them.
7. They have a rule that already allows for a 1 pound difference in inflation, they have now learned that game conditions will also affect inflation by about 1 PSI. And have determined that there are other factors that could affect their PSI measurements or the game play measurements like playing with wet balls. Inflation is a mares nest of inconsistency.
8. They obviously inflated the Patriots footballs to 13.5 or more at halftime yet there is no record of anyone complaining during the second half, nor of them playing with a ball over the allowed limit at least according to one gauge.
9. Their official recording of half time measures is so careful that the investigation concludes that one of 30 recorded number must have been transposed.
10. After the game they inspect 4 footballs from each team - no time constraints here - why didn't they record all 24 game balls and why did thy not retain all 12 balls? And why not check the kicking balls while they were at it.
11. Wilson 'generally' prepares K-Balls with week of use and a #1-6, but one assumes the 'generally' means 'sometimes'.
12. No mention made of the NFL employee fired after the game for stealing footballs intended for charity. Nor of any attempt to locate the sources of league leaks to the press including the original text message to a reporter.
13. The NFL has never done either in season testing of footballs before, during, or after games. Seems if this is a competitive advantage/disadvantage issue maybe they ought to. Science is interesting and the variables involved in pressure of a football are not simple. A few scientists had egg on their face when this first broke applying one 'law' and not another. A football stadium is not a lab nor a controlled environment and having actual real observed data with which to draw conclusion might expose 'factors' not foreseen by their scientific consultants.

Uc: Brother....yet another tremendous post. You da champ. Did you have, or did you ever have, wild bushy gray hair in total disarray, and a mustache to match, as you wandered around a certain Gothic campus in NJ some decades back?
Seems like pretty flimsy work. And if Kraft is to be believed - the multiple listings of 'refusal to grant a follow up interview' should actually be written as 'refusal to grant a follow-up, to the follow-up, to the follow-up' interview - but it sure supports the innuendo that is pretty clearly the conclusion.

I would also be curious to see the results of testing of say 200 Wilson delivered NFL footballs to see just what standard deviations exist in say the thickness of the leather the quality of stitching, tightness of lacing, quality of valves and bladders and how they all reacted to different prep work, and altered temperature and humidity and levels of moisture. Taken not all from the same batch, but say over a six month window of production run.
 
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UcM: what was supposed to pop up here along with the quote of your post was something like:

Yet another tremendous, thoughtful post, UcM. You da champ. Do you have , or did you ever have, a wild gray head of totally disorganized hair, with a mustache to match, as you wandered the paths of a certain Gothic NJ campus many decades ago? Somehow you are beginning to seem familiar.
 
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243-page Wells report is out concluding Patriots "probably" altered footballs. Here is the full report:

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dgAaW?utm_campaign=tsiphone&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=teamstream

Robert Kraft says report offers no hard evidence, still denies any wrongdoing:

http://www.patriots.com/news/2015/0...ts-chairman-and-ceo-robert-kraft-wells-report
As Hillary Clinton so proudly proclaimed---What Difference does it make ! (to Uconn WBB) or really to the out come of the game in question? Only to Costa who made a whole show out of it!! Media Pundits live in a world of their own and try to create OUR world.
 
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This thread will turn out like a discussion about Democrats Repbulicans. If you're a fan of the Patriots no convincing evidence Pats did anything wrong and if you dislike the Patriots , they're guilty. :)

All I know is I wouldn't want to be disciplined if the word Probably was used.
And Probably is such a damning legal term---who cares, will the Pats play next fall? Will they be allowed in the Super bowl? The answer is if there are sufficient viewers and ticket buyers --MONEY.
 
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I would think all the other qb's are not happy about this. They'll all be under the microscope now. What puzzles me is I played and gloves really help you grip the ball these days. Why bother deflating the balls? From the second half of the colts game through the super bowl Brady was lethal with properly inflated balls. Strange. I can't believe this story will be beaten to death like it will.
 
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Until you read it and realize what a micky mouse operation the NFL runs.
1. They have been warned that 'the Patriots may be tampering with balls before or during games' but have not done anything to alert any officials working the game or present in the stadium that there may be issue.
2. The officials do not record the inflation pressure of the balls, but state they check it. And then that same official cannot remember if he put his mark on all six kicking balls or only five. And the one he probably forgot to mark is the one that is used to start the game.
3. You have one official retiring and saving a ball because it does not have his mark, and another official retrieving the same ball and giving it to a Patriot employee to reintroduce into the game.
4. They report that someone can deflate 12 footballs in 90 seconds, but are unable to record air pressure for 24 footballs in 15 minutes.
5. This report speaks about standard deviation - Colts balls have one standard deviation, Patriots balls have another, but fail to report that standard deviation for a series of 4 numbers and a series of 11 (or 12) is not the same. Four is a very small series to extrapolate anything on.
6. Their official has in his possession and they use two pressure gauges that record pressures differing by between 1/3 and 1/2 pound of pressure - and then unsure which of the gauges is used by their official half time testers or whether they record pressures accurately or transposed them.
7. They have a rule that already allows for a 1 pound difference in inflation, they have now learned that game conditions will also affect inflation by about 1 PSI. And have determined that there are other factors that could affect their PSI measurements or the game play measurements like playing with wet balls. Inflation is a mares nest of inconsistency.
8. They obviously inflated the Patriots footballs to 13.5 or more at halftime yet there is no record of anyone complaining during the second half, nor of them playing with a ball over the allowed limit at least according to one gauge.
9. Their official recording of half time measures is so careful that the investigation concludes that one of 30 recorded number must have been transposed.
10. After the game they inspect 4 footballs from each team - no time constraints here - why didn't they record all 24 game balls and why did thy not retain all 12 balls? And why not check the kicking balls while they were at it.
11. Wilson 'generally' prepares K-Balls with week of use and a #1-6, but one assumes the 'generally' means 'sometimes'.
12. No mention made of the NFL employee fired after the game for stealing footballs intended for charity. Nor of any attempt to locate the sources of league leaks to the press including the original text message to a reporter.
13. The NFL has never done either in season testing of footballs before, during, or after games. Seems if this is a competitive advantage/disadvantage issue maybe they ought to. Science is interesting and the variables involved in pressure of a football are not simple. A few scientists had egg on their face when this first broke applying one 'law' and not another. A football stadium is not a lab nor a controlled environment and having actual real observed data with which to draw conclusion might expose 'factors' not foreseen by their scientific consultants.

Seems like pretty flimsy work. And if Kraft is to be believed - the multiple listings of 'refusal to grant a follow up interview' should actually be written as 'refusal to grant a follow-up, to the follow-up, to the follow-up' interview - but it sure supports the innuendo that is pretty clearly the conclusion.

I would also be curious to see the results of testing of say 200 Wilson delivered NFL footballs to see just what standard deviations exist in say the thickness of the leather the quality of stitching, tightness of lacing, quality of valves and bladders and how they all reacted to different prep work, and altered temperature and humidity and levels of moisture. Taken not all from the same batch, but say over a six month window of production run.
I was overtly impressed with all the points of your reply. It speaks volumes of how totally idiotic this whole report was and the NFL's handling of the investigation along with their lousy "standards" for specific criteria.
 

UcMiami

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UcM: what was supposed to pop up here along with the quote of your post was something like:

Yet another tremendous, thoughtful post, UcM. You da champ. Do you have , or did you ever have, a wild gray head of totally disorganized hair, with a mustache to match, as you wandered the paths of a certain Gothic NJ campus many decades ago? Somehow you are beginning to seem familiar.
I did roam a certain gothic NJ campus many years ago but as an undergrad with long fairly straight hair and often had varying levels of facial hair! The hair is mostly gone now and what is left is generally close cropped.

Could have added that:
14. The implication is (based on them referencing text messages going back over a year) that this has been an ongoing process and not a 'one off' for the championship game. Seems odd that the investigation did not interview all officials that worked home Patriots games to see 'if the balls went missing' on other occasions. Anderson states in 19 years he has never experienced balls being moved to the field except under his supervision - 19 x 16 games, so around 300 times. I wonder if officials at other stadiums have ever experienced anything like an employee taking the balls to the field without being specifically directed to do so. Maybe talk to the other 32 teams' attendants as well and see if they ever moved balls to the field without the specific instruction of the lead official. (Again - just seems shoddy work to come to these conclusions without actually checking history. And Anderson with his 'forgiven' forgetting to sign some footballs is in 100% cover his a_s mode - defense council would make him look a fool!) If this is the first time at Gillette then ... did they really cook this up for this game?! And if so, why the initial suspicions? if not, then balls must have been going missing at every game.
15. If the text messages are so believable - why isn't there an investigation into how footballs in a Jets game were well above the allowed 13.5 limit according to some of them.
 
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This thread will turn out like a discussion about Democrats Repbulicans. If you're a fan of the Patriots no convincing evidence Pats did anything wrong and if you dislike the Patriots , they're guilty. :)

All I know is I wouldn't want to be disciplined if the word Probably was used.
Lying and cheating is SOP in politics and most people don't care. But in sports it's a big deal. The customer gets what he deserves.
 

meyers7

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So the two Patriots employees texting about deflating balls for autographed items from Tom is light to you?
Actually the texts I've seen leaked where about over-inflating the balls.
 
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Evidence seems a bit light for such a high-powered 103-day investigation.



Would have been a lot heavier had New England not done its best to stonewall the investigation. For that alone, the franchise deserves significant punishment. And if not guilty, why the need for a cover-up?
 

UcMiami

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Would have been a lot heavier had New England not done its best to stonewall the investigation. For that alone, the franchise deserves significant punishment. And if not guilty, why the need for a cover-up?
Stonewall? Seems like they got all the access they wanted except a fifth interview with the locker room attendant. If you haven't asked your questions in the first four interviews not sure you deserve a fifth. And not sure I am turning over my personal phone to anyone without a court order if I am Brady.

What still just amazes me is that this multi-billion dollar business (NFL) is run in such incompetent manner.
 
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Stonewall? Seems like they got all the access they wanted except a fifth interview with the locker room attendant. If you haven't asked your questions in the first four interviews not sure you deserve a fifth. And not sure I am turning over my personal phone to anyone without a court order if I am Brady.

What still just amazes me is that this multi-billion dollar business (NFL) is run in such incompetent manner.


Yes, after the investigators had developed new information, the Pats refused access to this employee. In any investigation, as more info is turned up, it is necessary to go back to ask new questions. Why would the Pats deny access except to cover up something? I am sure this lack of cooperation will cause a little additional punishment to be meted out.

As for Brady, it is his constitutional right to not turn over texts, emails, etc. However if he doesnt' want the investigators to make the logical conclusion about his guilt - and if he has nothing to hide - he would cooperate. I would gladly bet a lot of money at 100:1 odds that he is guilty as hell.

As for competency, Ted Wells has an extremely good reputation as a criminal attorney and he hired some very competent people to assist him. This was not the NFL's product.
 
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