Natalie's Upside?

[eebmg]

While Nat does struggle at times to initially secure the ball, one of the points I made earlier is just the opposite. If you watch Nat this year vs last, it is clear that she has been coached to hold the ball above her head with both hands where nobody can challenge her. It allows her to see the court, make better passes and essentially play to her 6'5" height.

If we are going to assess a player's game, we should give them credit when they work hard to improve an aspect of their game as Nat has done this year.

I think she has improved on defense and rebounding and toughness. Her passing has improved somewhat but can and should improve. Her offense is a definite handicap and is basically limited to unguarded layups. People say she has good touch on the short-mid range jump shot but I dont see it and she has no real post moves which is the most surprising thing to me because I thought that could be improved by hard work.

 

[oldude]

I think she has improved on defense and rebounding and toughness. Her passing has improved somewhat but can and should improve. Her offense is a definite handicap and is basically limited to unguarded layups. People say she has good touch on the short-mid range jump shot but I dont see it and she has no real post moves which is the most surprising thing to me because I thought that could be improved by hard work.

Certainly, Nat is a work in progress. As some BY'ers have pointed out, Nat is a good shooter out to 15', but she needs a lot of space and time to get the shot off. I also recall an earlier tv segment where a reporter was interviewing Geno after practice. In the background, Nat was working with one of the assistants, over and over again on her hook shot in the lane. I'd love to see her attempt that shot in the game, but I suspect it's not ready for prime time.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I agree with most of what you say, but I very strongly disagree about one thing. She has about the worst hands I've ever seen. She routinely drops clean passes and does a great job of getting up for a rebound, only to have it slip through her hands. This has happened time and again this year and i can't remember another player with significant (though limited) minutes being as bad in that respect.
However, I'm somewhat puzzled by it. I don't think this is a problem that necessarily gets better with increased minutes. I think it is something that can be greatly improved by work in the gym, particularly with a partner. There are many exercises with weights, balls, etc. that can help. I would think the staff would be working with her on it.
You're totally right - we need her this year and she has already given some valuable minutes. I'm rooting for her. But I'd love to see this problem fade away.

Essentially you are correct. But having played a lot of the game--albeit when the ball was square--and viewing what's happening--many of Natalies issues with passes is the passer. Some bigs, like Stewie, could grab a pass 4 feet out of her range --she was ATHELETiC---that word does not describe Natalie. If you put your passes, even bounce passes, some where between her waist and her head--slow them down-she'll handle them. That's the girl WE HAVE--we don't have the model for a perfect center--we have NATALIE. Geno knows all this, he knows her abilities and her limitation--as he does with 11 others on this team. If we expect something different---we'll be moaning about this for the next year or 2.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Natalie brings the ball down for all to challenge Height advantage gone ! Coordination is limited !

She knows better and she knows not to dribble before the shot---she knows all this--but as a kid (I ass u Me) she developed habits she can't break--even with Chris and Geno crawling all over her back. She is what she is!!!

 

[BroadwayVa]

I have been supportive of Butler because we would be in big trouble without her. We have needed her minutes to get through foul trouble, most notably against Baylor and Maryland, and if she was not on the roster the winning streak would be over (even though she has made plenty of blunders, esp. against Maryland). Of course, when she is in there is going to be a drop off from Williams, probably the most athletic forward in WCBB, or Collier, possibly the best forward in WCBB. But the question I think should be asked is where would Geno turn at that point if Butler was not available.

If you were the coaching staff, what would you be working on with her? Hopefully rebounding drill after rebounding drill, to get a "that`s mine" mindset; and drills to get her to stay tall (why does she pretend to be 5'6"?) and go up quicker and stronger on the offensive end from point blank range. She must be getting tired of having shots blocked by players 7" shorter. Maybe increased minutes in January and February will help her play more confidently and aggressively.

Also, does anyone remember her shooting a baby hook shot, ever? I think Megan Culmo mentioned that she could have used one the other day against UCF. If she could develop that, it probably would make a notable difference.

Although I doubt there is a significant upside, the perplexing thing is that when she came from Georgetown, we were getting a player who had averaged 13.9 ppg and 13.3 rpg as a freshman in 2013-2014. She averaged 36.2 minutes per game and fouled out only once. This year, she is averaging 3.7 and 4.6 in 16.8 minutes.

That year, she played 9 games against NCAA tournament teams. Here are her points/rebounds in those games: Depaul, 9/10, 15/13, 8/11; St. Johns, 14/10, 8/14; California, 16/15; Penn State, 12/9; Mich State, 7/12; and Florida, 16/18. Against other decent 20+ win Big East teams, Creighton 24/13, 13/14; Villanova, 19/14, 12/13; and Marquette 12/12, 14/8. These are not teams that are at the level of Baylor, Notre Dame, or Maryland, but it is a decent level of play. And while figures can lie and liars can figure, those are nevertheless some impressive stats.

So, what to make of that? She has shown she can play at a respectable Division I level. Three years later, she has gotten into better shape, has had the benefit of UConn coaching, and has been working on her game. She should be better than she was then. That may be the best argument that there is an upside waiting to burst out. If and when it does, it will be to a thunderous ovation!

The difference between UConn and GT for Natalie ---the UC game is played with speed and lots of end to end running.
The competition is a bit different--apparently enough to make the difference. She did have great numbers---
also--whether the hand injury did physical or mental damage more than we know--we may never know.

 

[mntncougar]

Camara** phone autocorrected it

I'm in awe of anybody that can type that much on a phone.

 

[Huskee11]

The difference between UConn and GT for Natalie ---the UC game is played with speed and lots of end to end running.
The competition is a bit different--apparently enough to make the difference. She did have great numbers---
also--whether the hand injury did physical or mental damage more than we know--we may never know.

Those numbers would be good even if playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor, who appear to run the floor pretty well.....

One additional positive about Natalie - when she is in the game, it does give us a big body banging for rebounds. She will occupy space and sometimes get a hand on the ball, keeping it alive. That can be valuable as it gives those incredible opportunists, Williams and Collier, another shot at the ball. Not something that shows up in the box score, but valuable nonetheless.

We are fortunate to have her. I agree that there won`t be many remaining games where it will make a difference in the final result. But in those remaining big games, she could make a huge difference esp. if we have foul trouble. We have had foul trouble in a few big games this year, and she has contributed and helped us win those games.

 

[Oldbones]

Natalie is a RS Junior. Unless we advance the conversation well beyond "upside" we will not realize how much she has already contributed to this year's team. Let's stop obsessing over the things she can't do and appreciate the things she has done.

It reminds me of a line from the classic song "There is nothing like a game:"

"Its a waste of time to worry over plays that they've not run. Be thankful for...... the things they've done"

 

[HopJim]

It reminds me of a line from the classic song "There is nothing like a game:"

"Its a waste of time to worry over plays that they've not run. Be thankful for. the things they've done"

Good comments. Suspect after we play through the inter-league schedule, tone of this section will change. No one should have been confused why NB was not at the same level as the All American centers from Baylor, Maryland, etc. She will likely be one of the top 2-3 centers in league play. Look at her current body type and she can outrun any of the centers she will face the next two months. Should provide invaluable minutes to rest starters, tire the competition, and likely be a top performer versus what are typically short teams.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Those numbers would be good even if playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor, who appear to run the floor pretty well.....

View attachment 18197

One additional positive about Natalie - when she is in the game, it does give us a big body banging for rebounds. She will occupy space and sometimes get a hand on the ball, keeping it alive. That can be valuable as it gives those incredible opportunists, Williams and Collier, another shot at the ball. Not something that shows up in the box score, but valuable nonetheless.

We are fortunate to have her. I agree that there won`t be many remaining games where it will make a difference in the final result. But in those remaining big games, she could make a huge difference esp. if we have foul trouble. We have had foul trouble in a few big games this year, and she has contributed and helped us win those games.

You are correct--- Few appreciate advantage of having a Big Body in some game--not all--but some. I think her size will work for uconn with USC and Baylor if we should meet them again. While the rest of Natalies learning curve is small--she still is learning---

Thank you for the "we are fortunate to have her" While she did not take over the MD game--her time in the game protected UConn's lead and gave UC the opportunity to rest Gabby and/or Collier . I hope Natalie if she read the By --goes deep enough to read your positing!!!!!

Now the Sisters playing BB--I have seen a few team of late--they'd probably take them. My Aunt and Cousin
were members of an order.--The older one pulled up her sleeves and turned a dirt playyard into black top at a school in london England==she physically raked and rolled the black top--obviously with a group of other Nuns. Then returned to St Joseph University to end her career.

 

[Huskylove3]

There is a lot of negative things being said about NB, but I think she has come in this year and played great in big moments. Not everyone can an all-american, we need role players too

 

[JFC613]

There is a lot of negative things being said about NB, but I think she has come in this year and played great in big moments. Not everyone can an all-american, we need role players too

Well said Huskylove3. All the negative posts here show just how spoiled some of us are. The coaching staff knows what they have with Natalie. Watch Geno react with her many times when she comes off the court in games where he gives her a pat on the back. He knows exactly what he'll get when he puts her out there; the pluses and minuses. Would they like her to become another Steff, of course. But, they already know her upside and will use her accordingly.

 

[Longtime fan]

]

I am sorry but Butler has terrible hands. She is constantly fumbling passes and bobbling rebounds. She is a below average rebounder for somebody her size. She does have a decent set shot but needs to be wide open to get it off because her release is so slow and she doesn't jump when she shoots it. With that being said Butler plays hard and has obviously worked her tail off to get in better shape. Unfortunately, the biggest thing holding Butler back is something she can't change and that is her lack of god given athleticism.

I agree completely. You are saying what lots of UCONN fans do not wish to hear. She is not athletic, has awful hands, is awkward, and cannot get one inch off the ground. She does work hard and give maximum effort. And that can serve to, " hold back the tide," when Naphessa or Gabby or Lou need a break ( Kia never does ). I don't think hard work and effort will help her improve much ( some, of course ), but she is not an elite athlete. I once said, " if Natalie were 6'0", she would have trouble earning playing time at the university of Hartford. Next year, she will get garbage time only. But she is a fine teammate and does contribute. We are lucky to have her this year.

 

[Longtime fan]

You say tomato---I say tomata---you see what you want to see--I see Natalie If a guard passes to her in traffic, below the knees---or a bullet pass from 6 ft she's not going to handle them--to me that's on the passer. Obviously Geno thinks so to cuz one of Dangers passes to Butlers ankles-got Danger pulled. But you are right Natalie-s jump is 3 inches high--as a support person with very limited minutes --getting rebounds is a plus. I've often said Natalie is an excellent Natalie --and she is what she is. You don't have to love her or even like her--
When God passed out ATHLETICISM--HE/SHE---just walked right on by Ms Butler. But we fans have seen all this last year ---nothing new here. She is needed--of that there is little doubt---but next year we may be writing the same stuff.
She is a part and parcel of this team--like it or not. She is what she is. I see no value to me, to you, to Natalie, nor the team to pick her apart---she probably reads this crap--that just MY view---you are absolutely entitled to your--
Every thing you say about Butler--she was when Geno picked her up and obviously viewed game films of her at GT.
And to top that failure off----he uses her in Big games---what does that say of Geno//??/????

I have always had a sneaky suspicion that Uconn, somehow, got burned in the recruiting process for Natalie's class....specifically, that they hoped to land one or two " bigs" to give them some size, but the cards did not fall correctly. I realize this theory is hard to imagine, given UCONN's appeal to recruits. But, for example, A'ja Wilson was among those stars who chose to go elsewhere. So Natalie's interest inn transferring was a blessing, given the timing. Without her contributions....even if it is mostly, "taking up space and banging around the post,".....we might find our "core four" beaten ragged. But I would be shocked if UCONN ever had an interest in recruiting NB into a freshman class. Oh, well. She is helping.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I have always had a sneaky suspicion that Uconn, somehow, got burned in the recruiting process for Natalie's class....specifically, that they hoped to land one or two " bigs" to give them some size, but the cards did not fall correctly. I realize this theory is hard to imagine, given UCONN's appeal to recruits. But, for example, A'ja Wilson was among those stars who chose to go elsewhere. So Natalie's interest inn transferring was a blessing, given the timing. Without her contributions....even if it is mostly, "taking up space and banging around the post,".....we might find our "core four" beaten ragged. But I would be shocked if UCONN ever had an interest in recruiting NB into a freshman class. Oh, well. She is helping.

I agree with everything about Natalie's contributions at Uconn.
Geno missed a couple of Bigs--everyone does not want Uconn--it's work and Geno never pulls punches about the work.
Wilson felt a connection with Dawn that wasn't at uconn--others saw Stewie and knew she not they would be the center of Uconn whole game--so they choose other teams. It's not an offense to Geno or UConn or us Fans that they go elsewhere.
Some of us are happy they did. With all we missed --we have Gabby, Collier, Katie Lou, Kia, Chong, Dangerfield, Natalie, Molly, Kyla and right now they are Number ONE, some will excel some won't---that has never hurt UC much in the past.
Look at the BIGS Geno is getting next year and beyond---are we Uconn fans BLESSED!!!

 

[oldude]

I have always had a sneaky suspicion that Uconn, somehow, got burned in the recruiting process for Natalie's class....specifically, that they hoped to land one or two " bigs" to give them some size, but the cards did not fall correctly. I realize this theory is hard to imagine, given UCONN's appeal to recruits. But, for example, A'ja Wilson was among those stars who chose to go elsewhere. So Natalie's interest inn transferring was a blessing, given the timing. Without her contributions....even if it is mostly, "taking up space and banging around the post,".....we might find our "core four" beaten ragged. But I would be shocked if UCONN ever had an interest in recruiting NB into a freshman class. Oh, well. She is helping.

FYI, Nat was from the HS class of 2013, and yes UConn was limited that year with only one recruit, Saniya. A'ja Wilson was from the class of 2014, when UConn brought in Gabby, Kia, Courtney Ekmark & Sadie Edwards. Mercedes Russell, Alaina Coates, Stephanie Mavunga were the best bigs available in 2013.

 

[dtbtbtb]

NB at this point is what she is and will be for next season as well. A hard working kid and a great teammate! We hoped for Dolson 2.0 but it ain't happening. Ashe is extremely important for the team especially this season and without her our chances for another final 4 and championship are very small so I'm thankful we have her on our team!

 

[tkaes]

There is a lot of negative things being said about NB, but I think she has come in this year and played great in big moments. Not everyone can an all-american, we need role players too

We live in an overly PC world. I believe that all critical commentary is not negative or unjustly harsh. More often than not, it is intended to be a statement of reality. I have observed, through the benefit of TV only, Natalie Butler play in nearly 50 games since she became eligible. While my conclusions may not rise to the level of fact, they are nevertheless opinions based on a fairly significant sample size. Natalie has bad hands. Natalie can't jump. Those are statements of reality.

I don't expect Natalie to be an All-American. As many All-Americans as UCONN has had, they have never had a team filled with current All-Americans (certainly 3 or 4 but not the entire starting 5 in the same year ). When Natalie transferred I only expected her to be a role player; she didn't have the credentials to expect otherwise.

Once again, Natalie has bad hands and she can't jump. Having said that, I essentially agree with your statement that "she has come in this year and played great in big moments" except I would substitute "well" or "very well" for "great". Now, suppose she had good hands and jumped as well as the average big.

 

[Waquoit]

Here is the one question you truth tellers have to ask yourselves: If Butler got hurt and was lost for the year, would UConn as a team be stronger or weaker?

 

[Florida Fan]

If I came across less than civil--and I try to not damn opinions--cuz that's all they are--if I made you think other wise i apologize. You are right we discuss the good games and how great so and so was. That's great. But Natalie seems to be an on going --same and more of the same. Again you are generous in you reply--and again--if i offended accept my apology.
I don't mind tearing up ND, Duke, USC, Tn or even JMU players---most will never read this.
Much of this isn't a debate--because much what is present is similar so the debate doesn't take place.
Again--this just me--personally I see no value to continue the same comment into another year--of what Natalie can't or should do. Natalie is an intelligent woman, of that have no doubt. As you pointed out she works hard. With her size, width personality, desires, she is what she is. Christine has worked with her against Stew, Gabby, Napheesa, Azura, etc
she is what she is.

Yeah, I too am hoping Natalie doesn't read this blog, because, like you, I realize that she's busting her butt and worried that she's not cutting the mustard. So reading that she has hands of stone or is athletically doomed can't help her confidence level. But the season is young, and others have said that the conference games against smaller centers may provide Nat the chances to become more aggressive in the post both as a shooter and as a defender/rebounder, I can't discount the valuable minutes she's given the team and trust that the coaching brain trust has plans to help her become even more valuable.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Yeah, I too am hoping Natalie doesn't read this blog, because, like you, I realize that she's busting her butt and worried that she's not cutting the mustard. So reading that she has hands of stone or is athletically doomed can't help her confidence level. But the season is young, and others have said that the conference games against smaller centers may provide Nat the chances to become more aggressive in the post both as a shooter and as a defender/rebounder, I can't discount the valuable minutes she's given the team and trust that the coaching brain trust has plans to help her become even more valuable.

I agree 120 percent.

 

[biscuit boy]

Hey stop stepping all over the girl. Concentrate on the positive rather than the negative, i.e. on the things she can do not on what she can't).

What i see when i watch her this year is someone who plays hard -- she runs the floor as hard as she can and is not afraid to bang underneath. She has a very good outlet pass and is a decent rebounder. She is always looking to make a play and has assisted on a number of baskets this year.. If she is limited in her ability to catch the ball it is up to the point guard or whoever else to make the sure the ball is delivered to her where she can do something with it and not at the ankles, etc. she has displayed some decent step thru moves and has hit out to 15 feet. She appears to be doing everything asked of her.

I see a great teammate that a lotta teams would like to have.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Here is the one question you truth tellers have to ask yourselves: If Butler got hurt and was lost for the year, would UConn as a team be stronger or weaker?

Of course weaker. Same as if we lost Bent or Kyla or TLaw. The only way you get stronger if you lose someone is if they are a detriment to the team. Those players are quickly shown the door at UConn.

 

[BroadwayVa]

FYI, Nat was from the HS class of 2013, and yes UConn was limited that year with only one recruit, Saniya. A'ja Wilson was from the class of 2014, when UConn brought in Gabby, Kia, Courtney Ekmark & Sadie Edwards. Mercedes Russell, Alaina Coates, Stephanie Mavunga were the best bigs available in 2013.

Ekmark had a lot of positive words written about her prior to her arrival. She took off her HS senior year to play with boy/men teams and to be physically prepared for uconn--she was an exceptional 3 ball shooter so the pundits said.
Is there any wonder Fans felt a bit disapointed ? Sadie--was recruited and accepted by Geno--she played guard a couple of games --then was gone.

 

[Waquoit]

Of course weaker. Same as if we lost Bent or Kyla or TLaw.

This is a joke, right?