Lebron vs. Kobe

[superjohn]

For some reason espn has been talking about Michael Jordan 24/7 for the entire week leading up to Jordan's 50th birthday this Sunday. There has been some talk of whether Lebron can be as good as Jordan and now the debate has shifted to who is better Kobe or Lebron, Jordan said he would take Kobe because he has 5 titles to 1 for Lebron. I'm casting my vote for Lebron over Kobe and I don't even think it's close.

 

[BarkingDog]

Of course Jordan said it's about the titles because it's the only thing that separates him from Lebron.
But I take Lebron over kobe and Jordan. All day.

 

[champs99and04]

Jordan said what he did because he's more threatened by LeBron. Not that I think LeBron's as good as MJ, or ever will be, but Kobe's not in the same galaxy as MJ, LeBron is. The "5 to 1" argument is incredibly lazy - I understand that's how athletes are defined in modern day America, but if LeBron played with Shaq when he was in his prime, that team would go about 80-2 and the universe would probably explode from the pure dominance. Conversely, I'm convinced Kobe would hover around the .500 mark with the group in Cleveland LeBron worked with for so many years.

There is no comparison - LeBron is, and always has been, the far better overall player. Better passer, better rebounder, better defender, much more efficient scorer.

 

[superjohn]

I agree completely that Jordan picks Kobe because he feels much more threatened by Lebron, Jordan is still the most competitive person around and he realizes how unbelievably good Lebron is and how Lebron keeps improving every year. I've always thought Jordan is the greatest athlete ever and he could never be touched but I'm blown away by Lebron's abilities on the court. I used to really dislike him and would point out his flaws...no post up game, misses clutch ft's doesn't have the killer mentality like the greats. I'm finished doing this, whatever flaws he had he no longer has. He's always been a great player but his improvement just in the last offseason is amazing to me. He'll never have the aura of Jordan or be the global icon MJ is but this season is the first time I could see Lebron being as good as Jordan and someday surpassing him.

 

[blackbird]

Jordan has always picked Kobe, even when Kobe was better than Lebron.

It's not fair to compare Lebron to either though. Let him finish his career. If he retires with only one title though, than he's not in the same galaxy as either.

 

[Husky]

Of course Jordan said it's about the titles because it's the only thing that separates him from Lebron.
But I take Lebron over kobe and Jordan. All day.

lebron over jordan????? LOL no...

 

[TheChamps990411]

Of course Jordan said it's about the titles because it's the only thing that separates him from Lebron.
But I take Lebron over kobe and Jordan. All day.

Your under the age of 30 arent you?

 

[Scoe]

Your under the age of 30 arent you?

MJ all day every day end of discussion. Its sad that no one can just appreciate an alltime great and let him build his own legacy not saying Lebron cant become the best of all-time he is top 10 alltime right now. When it comes to being an all-time great in the NBA you are defined by championships, so MJ is right in that regard.

 

[uconnfan68]

MJ all day every day end of discussion. Its sad that no one can just appreciate an alltime great and let him build his own legacy not saying Lebron cant become the best of all-time he is top 10 alltime right now. When it comes to being an all-time great in the NBA you are defined by championships, so MJ is right in that regard.

LeBron had a few good points... Bill Russell had 11 to Jordan's 6. Lots of people had more than Charles Barkley. It's all about timing.

 

[bmayuc]

Two different arguments that people conflate into one :

1. Who is the best pure basketball player?
2. Who had the best career?

I believe the answer to #1 has been Jordan since 1987. Kobe was never in range. LeBron is in that discussion right now, no question. He is more physically imposing, can guard more positions defensively, is a superior passer and shooter. In fact, the further you look you just wonder if we are getting to the tipping point in this discussion.

2. Russell owns this category for his Era, Jordan owns it for his Era. As of now, I would say Duncan/Kobe tie for this era, but Lebron has about 6-7 years of high quality ball to go. He will be there in the end.



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[Husky]

If you would draft Lebron over Michael Jordan, you deserve to be laughed at, by a stadium full of people

 

[TheChamps990411]

lbj has been to the finals 3 times in his career. he has lost 2 out of those 3 times. MJ was 6-0 in nba finals and was FINALS MVP all 6 times. lbj is the greatest physical talent to walk onto a basketball court but to claim to be the all time best you have to rack up the hardware. its like the jerry rice randy moss comparison. sure p4p moss is far more physically gifted but he wasnt as technically sound as jerry and his achievements on the field dont come close to jerry rices`. i think its possible that when lbj is done it could end up being the same for him with MJ.

Imho lbj has to go on to win 6 more titles and 3 mvps to even be in a fair discussion for greatest ever. if he goes on to win 2 more titles and 2 more mvps he will be considered #2 at best and at that point youll have the kobe supporters saying not so fast.

People want to say lbj is a better passer and rebounder but lets look at some numbers. at age 26. these are their career numbers in the regular season and playoffs:

PTS RBS ASTS FG% FT% 3PT% MIN FGA

JORDAN 32.8 6.3 6.0 51.6 84.8 28.2 39.0 23.4
PLAYOFFS 35.8 7.0 6.7 50.5 83.3 30.4 42.5 25.1

james 27.7 7.1 7.0 47.9 74.4 31.8 40.1 20.6
PLAYOFFS 28.7 8.5 7.0 45.9 74.9 32.3 43.6 20.8

If your a coach and youve got a game 7 to win and you know it could come down to a last second shot who do you want? I dont know about any of you but give me JORDAN 7 days a week and twice on sunday.

Just to add another point. What if MJ`S father isnt murdered? Does JORDAN have 8 titles? All coming consecutively? Its a very realistic possibility.

 

[superjohn]

Good points, I've always thought Jordan could have won 10 titles if his father didn't get murdered and if Krause didn't break up the Bulls. At some point MJ was so much better than everyone else that he just got bored with the game. Jordan is the best athlete I've ever seen, he had amazing physical talent but what seperated him was his competitiveness and will to win, he hated losing more than he loved winning. I would never try and say Lebron is as good as Jordan now that would be ridiculous but the argument that Kobe is better just because he has so many more titles than James doesn't fly with me. Kobe has been surrounded with an insane amount of talent, he had Shaw at a time where Shaq was the most dominant force the league has seen since Wilt, his last two he had a fully engaged Gasol and Bynum. Kobe also had the team where Malone and Payton joined up to try and win a title and he now has the best center in the game again. Lebron now has Wade and Bosh but before that he took a Cleveland team to the finals where the other best players on the team were Mo Williams and Jamison.

 

[TheChamps990411]

LeBron had a few good points... Bill Russell had 11 to Jordan's 6. Lots of people had more than Charles Barkley. It's all about timing.

Im really getting tired of that old arguement. lbj point was utter nonsense and ill tell you why. charles and karl are two of the best ever at there POSITION and no one is arguing that but are they two of the greatest players ever? no! and by no i mean are they two of top 10 greatest players ever? no so they have to take a back seat to TIM DUNCAN as the greatest powerforward ever and a top ten all time player. you know why? RINGS! THATS WHAT SEPARATES THE GREATS FROM THE ALL TIME GREATS!

I think a players greatness is measured in 3 categories:

1. Championships
2. Individual accolades (mvps,all star,all league honors)
3. On field/court dominance

If you were among the best in those 3 categories at the end of your career then you can be called an all time great. To be the greatest you have to be at or near the top in all 3 categories to even be in the discussion. ill give him #3 but lbj is nowhere near being an all time great in the other two. he has a ways to go but he is well on his way.
i disagree with people that say he is already one of the ten greatest players ever. NONSENSE! From a talent stand point yes but not in terms of accomplishments.

Thought this was a pretty good list of top ten players of all time. can you really fit lbj on this list right now ahead of olajuwon? elgin baylor who had the misfortune of playing during the bill russell`s celtics and wilt chamberlain era?

OSCAR ROBERTSON
TIM DUNCAN
KOBE BRYANT
SHAQUILLE ONEAL
WILT CHAMBERLAIN
LARRY BIRD
KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR
BILL RUSSELL
MAGIC JOHNSON
MICHEAL JORDAN

 

[superjohn]

Oscar Robertson only has 1 championship and I absolutely think he's a top 10 player ever. I'm no old enough to have seen Oscar or Elgin Baylor play but my dad is an NBA junkie and I was talking to him recently about Lebron, my dad was a huge Oscar fan but he says Lebron is better and he says Lebron is way better than Elgin Baylor. These debates are good in that it gets people talking about the all-time greats and it's fun to compare players from different generations. Another interesting point is that Kobe only has 1 MVP and I'm almost positive that number won't change, Lebron already has 3, Jordan has 5.

 

[boog204]

Jordan is the best ever, end of argument. Lebron is the best physical talent I've ever seen and there's a chance he can approach MJs greatness, but he's not there yet. I always feel that Oscar Robertson gets the shaft in the best all around talent argument. We always argue MJ vs. Kobe vs. Lebron but very few people talk about the Big O. He is way before my time, but his stats, at least early in his career, are staggering. He averaged 30, 11, and 12 for a year. That's insanity.

Tim Duncan also doesn't get talked about enough in the best players of all time debate. His stats aren't as gaudy as some other big men, but his body of work is more or less second to none.

 

[Kitaman]

I'm no Kobe fan but to say that the comparison is not close (KB/LJ) is unfair. Kobe is in the same league as Jordan and Lebron. Jordan is obviously the best, but even if Lebron is number 2, Kobe is 2a, not 3. I'm referring to the young Kobe, by the way.

 

[Excalibur]

MJ would average 40 a game with today's rules.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

If we're talking about their current respective abilities, Kobe is the more skilled player but there is really no doubt that Lebron is the better player overall. Kobe from a couple years ago makes it a much closer competition. Overall, we have yet to see. Lebron supporters always used to point out the lack of talent around him compared to what Kobe got to play with. Well, now he has a lot of talent around him, so let's see if he can win another couple of championships.

 

[mauconnfan]

What "excalibur" said....

 

[SouthTampaBill]

It took MJ 6 years to win a championship and he did not win till Pippen came along with a good supporting cast.

It's all about who else is on your team.

For example, if Bill Russell had played for the Detroit Pistons no way he gets all those championships.

He got to focus on defense and they didn't need his offense

Even then he had limited offensive skills. Lifetime 44% FG and 56% FT

Playing with 8 Hall of Famers and with the same team his whole career didn't hurt either.

 

[Scoe]

Im really getting tired of that old arguement. lbj point was utter nonsense and ill tell you why. charles and karl are two of the best ever at there POSITION and no one is arguing that but are they two of the greatest players ever? no! and by no i mean are they two of top 10 greatest players ever? no so they have to take a back seat to TIM DUNCAN as the greatest powerforward ever and a top ten all time player. you know why? RINGS! THATS WHAT SEPARATES THE GREATS FROM THE ALL TIME GREATS!

I think a players greatness is measured in 3 categories:

1. Championships
2. Individual accolades (mvps,all star,all league honors)
3. On field/court dominance

If you were among the best in those 3 categories at the end of your career then you can be called an all time great. To be the greatest you have to be at or near the top in all 3 categories to even be in the discussion. ill give him #3 but lbj is nowhere near being an all time great in the other two. he has a ways to go but he is well on his way.
i disagree with people that say he is already one of the ten greatest players ever. NONSENSE! From a talent stand point yes but not in terms of accomplishments.

Thought this was a pretty good list of top ten players of all time. can you really fit lbj on this list right now ahead of olajuwon? elgin baylor who had the misfortune of playing during the bill russell`s celtics and wilt chamberlain era?

OSCAR ROBERTSON
TIM DUNCAN
KOBE BRYANT
SHAQUILLE ONEAL
WILT CHAMBERLAIN
LARRY BIRD
KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR
BILL RUSSELL
MAGIC JOHNSON
MICHEAL JORDAN

I would put Olajuwon over Shaq, thats my opinion.

 

[superjohn]

Shaq had a totally dominant 4 or 5 year stretch but I would also take Hakeem over him.

 

[traitor71]

I can never figure out why people just refuse to accept the possibility that someone could eventually be "better than Jordan". Every generation gets their guy, and some of us get to see more than one of those guys play and I think guys like Bryant and especially James are right there with Jordan as players. Now I tend to not place as much emphasis on titles as the single determining factor, because quite simply, teams win them, not single individuals. That was a great Bulls team, one that almost made it to the finals without him and fell short again when he returned. I feel like putting it all on Jordan diminishes the greatness of that team.

I think Jordan was probably the best basketball player that I have ever seen, but LeBron James does things that he physically couldn't do. He's bigger, stronger, faster and has the game to match him. And he is getting better, which is scary. Anyway, that is the end of my rant and I would finish it by saying that we need to see what happens over the next five years or so before really getting into this argument full bore.

 

[traitor71]

Shaq had a totally dominant 4 or 5 year stretch but I would also take Hakeem over him.

Hakeem was the best defensive basketball player I have ever seen and it goes without saying that he was one of the best back to the basket offensive players of all time.