Kim vs. Holly vs. Muffet vs. Joanne, etc., etc.

[Sonny44]

We all enjoy ragging on our competitor's coaches. Easy to do because we have Geno. Much of this joy is due to intense rivalries such as Tennessee and Notre Dame. But others, for other reasons such as ineptitude (obvious enough?). Still others are somewhat curious such as Kim who really hasn't hurt us much at all. I too seem to be inexplicably entertained when Baylor loses.
Anybody else feel the same? Why? Should I feel sorry for her?

 

[mrmojack]

Mulkey has a nice recruiting class coming in with Kalani Brown(6'5"), Beatrice
Momprimier(6'4") post players and 3 other lower rated to go along with what she
has there now. Kalani Brown was a big recruiting target for Geno. Nina Davis
still has two yrs left. I look for Baylor to be in the top 5 teams in the coming
years.

Notre Dame is Notre Dame and will be very competitive with very good
recruiting class of three guards coming in. Muffet is a good coach.

Tennesse is moving also, DeShields coming in with Cooper at point guard
and Mercedes Russell coming off injury. The LV's could be very good.
It will be interesting to see how DeShields effects this teams chemistry.
I'm really not sold on their coaching staff.

I really like what the Huskies have coming in next year. We have four
really good ones on the way to Gampel. RELOAD

 

[stwainfan]

I think Kim is a good coach. Yes with Sims and Griner the team was better. I think they will be one of the top programs as long as Kim is there. Holly took over with a real young team. Now this year with the experience. The team has played over all pretty good. Now next year Diamond is a game changer. With Russell in the middle be be a stopper. The guard position should be strong Carter, Reynolds have played good.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Good thread..... There are more quality women's coaches than there were just a few years ago...... I have always liked Muffet and her ability to practice coach and game coach...... Tara I have always thought is good coach.... wow did it take guts to overhaul her offense this summer and go 180 degrees away from what she had been doing..... and despite her record she has done OK this year, albeit not great..... Kim I think is worth her salt..... I like Aston from Texas..... she seems to have a good handle on her team and their capabilities....... Coach P at Duke is unfortunately lost..... and I do not see her as preparing her players well at all as evidenced by the beatdowns and even the close games with those that shouldn't have been close..... They need a change..... and Holly.... I still am not sold on her ability..... though the TN fans obvisouly have warmed up to her..... and with share of the SEC title being shared by TN, the naysayers will be happy, as she probably has bought some extended good favor.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

Holly has impressed me more this season. I'm honestly not still sold on her just yet but I'm one of the fans that has warmed up to her as the years pass by. She's still recruiting pretty well despite missing out on much needed post players in this class. She's notably gotten better at in-game situations and our offense has improved as the season has went on, which was a concern earlier in the season. I won't be completely sold on Holly until we're able to return to the Final Four, AT LEAST. Pat set a standard at Tenn and I won't settle for "co-SEC regular season champs" Final Four....anything less is a bust of a season, as it should be when you've set the standard so high. Holly has done a good job in my eyes this season despite the loss of Mercedes, Jasmine Jones and basically Tucker who hasnt really played too much this season at all. The team has performed well without Izzy but my expectations for this season has honestly been hampered with Izzy's injury. I comend Holly for the job she's done this year despite the circumstances. She does have a lot of fire power waiting in the wings for next year so I'm waiting another year or two before I throw Holly COMPLETELY under the bus.

Tara has always been an excellent coach in my eyes, especially on the x's and O's end of the spectrum. Stanford has always fielded a solid team year in and year out. I really hate she couldn't win anything with the O sisters!

Kim...well I really just enjoy her antics on the sideline when Baylor doesn't get a call in their favor. Lol She's hilarious, but the BG saga put a sour taste in my mouth with Kim, plus avoiding all the "big dogs" when she doesn't feel like her team can compete. She does have an excellent recruiting class with those two post player plus Alexis Jones. I bet we won't see as many creampuffs on their schedule next year.

I absolutely LOVE Muffet McGraw....mainly because of her sense of fashion but through a basketball aspect I like her "toughness." She gives off a strong presence on the sideline and seems like a no nonsense type of coach. She reminds me of Pat...just a tad. She's been the only coach to give Geno some fits and for that I can appreciate her. I do have to wonder tho....in 2001 had you all been FULLY healthy, I don't see ND winning the NC, Tenn and UCONN were loaded that year and I thought the Championship should have went to one of those teams. Fluke Championship or not...she's a great coach

The Duke coach (showing no respect by calling her actual name since she doesn't do the same with players of oppossing teams)....she's been a real disappoint for Duke. I honestly used to love Duke, Alana Beard, Isis Tillis, Lindsey Harding were all some of my favorite players growing up. Every since the Duke coach took over it just seems like a totally different Duke. I no longer get excited when Duke plays like I once used to. They're similar to Tenn, doing less with lots of talent.

 

[alexrgct]

My opinion:

• Kim Mulkey is a terrific HC. You simply can't take away the fact she won two NCs in two very different eras with completely different rosters. Historically, she's been annoying about blaming losses on specific calls, but she's a great coach.
• Muffet does have a natty to her credit and three trips to the NC game this decade. She's a dynamite recruiter and developer of talent. I'm not sure why there was so much bad blood with Geno, and I blame her at least equally, but her accomplishments are beyond reproach.
• JPM is subject to scrutiny because Duke has not sniffed a Final Four since she took the job.
• Holly W is doing a pretty good job. She's not getting the LVs back to greatness, but she's doing as well as Pat did since 2008 as far as I'm concerned. Tennessee could have hired almost anyone but hired Holly and doesn't regret it. I enjoy when the Lady Vols lose, but I don't feel any animosity towards Holly.

 

[Huskysouth]

Holly has impressed me more this season. I'm honestly not still sold on her just yet but I'm one of the fans that has warmed up to her as the years pass by. She's still recruiting pretty well despite missing out on much needed post players in this class. She's notably gotten better at in-game situations and our offense has improved as the season has went on, which was a concern earlier in the season. I won't be completely sold on Holly until we're able to return to the Final Four, AT LEAST. Pat set a standard at Tenn and I won't settle for "co-SEC regular season champs" Final Four....anything less is a bust of a season, as it should be when you've set the standard so high. Holly has done a good job in my eyes this season despite the loss of Mercedes, Jasmine Jones and basically Tucker who hasnt really played too much this season at all. The team has performed well without Izzy but my expectations for this season has honestly been hampered with Izzy's injury. I comend Holly for the job she's done this year despite the circumstances. She does have a lot of fire power waiting in the wings for next year so I'm waiting another year or two before I throw Holly COMPLETELY under the bus.

Tara has always been an excellent coach in my eyes, especially on the x's and O's end of the spectrum. Stanford has always fielded a solid team year in and year out. I really hate she couldn't win anything with the O sisters!

Kim...well I really just enjoy her antics on the sideline when Baylor doesn't get a call in their favor. Lol She's hilarious, but the BG saga put a sour taste in my mouth with Kim, plus avoiding all the "big dogs" when she doesn't feel like her team can compete. She does have an excellent recruiting class with those two post player plus Alexis Jones. I bet we won't see as many creampuffs on their schedule next year.

I absolutely LOVE Muffet McGraw....mainly because of her sense of fashion but through a basketball aspect I like her "toughness." She gives off a strong presence on the sideline and seems like a no nonsense type of coach. She reminds me of Pat...just a tad. She's been the only coach to give Geno some fits and for that I can appreciate her. I do have to wonder tho....in 2001 had you all been FULLY healthy, I don't see ND winning the NC, Tenn and UCONN were loaded that year and I thought the Championship should have went to one of those teams. Fluke Championship or not...she's a great coach

The Duke coach (showing no respect by calling her actual name since she doesn't do the same with players of oppossing teams)....she's been a real disappoint for Duke. I honestly used to love Duke, Alana Beard, Isis Tillis, Lindsey Harding were all some of my favorite players growing up. Every since the Duke coach took over it just seems like a totally different Duke. I no longer get excited when Duke plays like I once used to. They're similar to Tenn, doing less with lots of talent.

Great post....... However, Muffet's Championship was no fluke in my view; she simply out coached the UCONN staff. UCONN's best players were playing in that game - another whole conversation. As a matter of fact, when the talent level of the players are close (post Diggins), the ND staff has held its own against UCONN.

 

[Beemer]

I think Muffet McGraw and Tara Vanderveer are excellent coaches. Kim Mulkey is very good but her sideline antics tick me off. Holly Warlick is still a work in progress. The Duke coach is a disaster of growing proportions- IMO if the Duke AD doesn't do something she's going to wreck that program, which would be a shame.

I also like Sherri Coale of Oklahoma too.

 

[Orangutan]

In response to the last part of the OP, I dislike Mulkey for her sideline histrionics. Really, though, she is no worse than Walz or Hatchell in that regard - both of whom attempted to turn the tide against ND this year by pitching a fit to motivate their team.

McCallie I dislike because she's just rude in her press conferences - to her own players and to the opposition. The calling players by numbers thing rubs me the wrong way. I know it's coach speak, but c'mon she knows full well what #32's name is.

I also like mocking anyone who does ridiculous pre-game speeches. Frese is the queen of those. Hatchell had a ridiculous one before the ND game where she had each player hold a rock and then say the word that the rock reminded them of.

 

[msf22b]

Tennessee is playing much, much better, sometimes almost seems mildly cohesive.
When Izzy went down, the team didn't fold, the underachieving seniors really stepped up
and finally (after 3+ years) started playing up to their ability.

You've have to credit Holly for these advances; we certainly have blamed her for the team's failures…
i don't think that they will get to the final-four…certainly not if they get put in our regional
But improvement in all aspects of their game is noted.

 

[TFintheMix]

Being fairly new to WBB, the comments made about coaches have been very enlightening. Only one person referenced Coach Frese at Maryland but I was hoping to hear more analysis about both the Louisville and Maryland coaches. They seem to have talented teams and have pretty highly ranked recruiting classes coming in soon. I wonder what this group feels about these coaches.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

Walz is an excellent coach to me. He always has a good game plan and gets his team to play well against top competition....except UCONN! He seems like a hardworking coach that wants to be elite! A mini Geno in my eyes. I think a lot will be expected next year with a superstar (Durr) coming in as well as his other great recruits. Much like Holly....a lot of eyes will be on him.

When I think of Brenda.........I think of the 2006 Championship that Walz should get most credit for....that's about it for Brenda in my eyes!

 

[msf22b]

Brenda used to be one of the coaches Boneyarder's loved to hate.
Seems like Joanne has so eclipsed her in our negative affections that she has slipped off the radar

 

[LadyVols9]

What really bugs me about the Holly issue is that Dawn has gotten so much attention this year and has the exact same conference record as Holly. They both share the title. AND Holly did this with a VERY depleted injured team playing the top schedule in WCBB. Very impressive to me.

Holly has won an SEC title every year that she has been a head coach. I think her short resume keeps her from getting the respect of others. I get it, but the numbers don't lie. The real test is the NCAA though, where Dawn hasn't done anything better.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Being fairly new to WBB, the comments made about coaches have been very enlightening. Only one person referenced Coach Frese at Maryland but I was hoping to hear more analysis about both the Louisville and Maryland coaches. They seem to have talented teams and have pretty highly ranked recruiting classes coming in soon. I wonder what this group feels about these coaches.

TFintheMix- - - I love the players at MD but I CAN NOT STAND BRENDA FRESE! I hold onto my wallet whenever she's on the screen, she's so slimey! Some things that have set my negative opinion of BF:
1. When she got the MN Head Coach job (with Lindsay Whalen & Janelle McCarville) she said"this is her dream job, she's thrilled to be at MN!" Then within a year and a 1/2 she went to MD and at her presser she said: "This is the dream job I've been after!"
2. She's rumored to have called, Langhorne & Harper, two high 2005 Geno recruits, a couple of days before signing day and next thing you know they commit to MD! Geno was pissed and made a comment a couple days later about "some coaches calling kids and telling tall tales on other programs!" That's why Geno eventually scheduled MD to kick her butt! The last time was last year that UCONN won big without KML & Tuck and BF said at post game presser if Geno were to lose one more HS AA he'll know what the rest of the coaches are having to really coach!
3. When BF & MD won National Title in 2006 she had Jeff Walz as her head Asst. and the joke was he was the power behind the throne! Soon after the season he got the L'ville job where he's shined!
4. She loves her microphone time pregame, during game, and postgame!

 

[meyers7]

What really bugs me about the Holly issue is that Dawn has gotten so much attention this year and has the exact same conference record as Holly. They both share the title. AND Holly did this with a VERY depleted injured team playing the top schedule in WCBB. Very impressive to me.

Holly has won an SEC title every year that she has been a head coach. I think her short resume keeps her from getting the respect of others. I get it, but the numbers don't lie. The real test is the NCAA though, where Dawn hasn't done anything better.

True. One difference is Staley is building her team up (from where it was). And Warlick is pretty much maintaining status quo.

 

[ursusminor]

Brenda used to be one of the coaches Boneyarder's loved to hate.
Seems like Joanne has so eclipsed her in our negative affections that she has slipped off the radar

Also Frese's temper tantrums seemed to have toned down a hair. Possibly her twins are setting a good example, as I recall some of her more infamous meltdowns inspiring unflattering comparisons to the then-toddler-aged kids.

 

[Bayareahusky]

What really bugs me about the Holly issue is that Dawn has gotten so much attention this year and has the exact same conference record as Holly. They both share the title. AND Holly did this with a VERY depleted injured team playing the top schedule in WCBB. Very impressive to me.

Holly has won an SEC title every year that she has been a head coach. I think her short resume keeps her from getting the respect of others. I get it, but the numbers don't lie. The real test is the NCAA though, where Dawn hasn't done anything better.

Oh LV9, problem with you is that you are too damn logical..... 100% IN AGREEMENT!!!!! For as much as I doubt Holly's x and o coaching abilities..... Dawn has absolutely nothing on her..... especially this year...... and whereas Holly's bar must be higher than conference championship..... Dawn has done nothing notable with a roster to rival Holly's...... I have seen the (SC) play 5 or 6 times this year, and at no time have I said "WOW!!!"...... I have not formed a judgment on Dawn's coaching skill, because I need a bigger "sample size"..... but credit to Holly this year for fighting through criticism and injuries to have such a respectable year.

 

[TFintheMix]

TFintheMix- - - I love the players at MD but I CAN NOT STAND BRENDA FRESE! I hold onto my wallet whenever she's on the screen, she's so slimey! Some things that have set my negative opinion of BF:
1. When she got the MN Head Coach job (with Lindsay Whalen & Janelle McCarville) she said"this is her dream job, she's thrilled to be at MN!" Then within a year and a 1/2 she went to MD and at her presser she said: "This is the dream job I've been after!"
2. She's rumored to have called, Langhorne & Harper, two high 2005 Geno recruits, a couple of days before signing day and next thing you know they commit to MD! Geno was pissed and made a comment a couple days later about "some coaches calling kids and telling tall tales on other programs!" That's why Geno eventually scheduled MD to kick her butt! The last time was last year that UCONN won big without KML & Tuck and BF said at post game presser if Geno were to lose one more HS AA he'll know what the rest of the coaches are having to really coach!
3. When BF & MD won National Title in 2006 she had Jeff Walz as her head Asst. and the joke was he was the power behind the throne! Soon after the season he got the L'ville job where he's shined!
4. She loves her microphone time pregame, during game, and postgame!

RSHERMVIKES... Great feedback. All new information for me. My initial impressions(!!!) are consistent with your conclusions but I have been watching before jumping to conclusions. For example, MD has a very talented squad but it is hard to judge how good they are since their schedule is not as competitive as some of the top teams in the country. Even their NCAA competition were not that tough. Princeton is a good team but not upper echelon. I am looking forward to the next few rounds of the NCAAs.

 

[TFintheMix]

True. One difference is Staley is building her team up (from where it was). And Warlick is pretty much maintaining status quo.

I have to agree with your assessment. I've read more about Staley as a great program builder and recruiter than great coach. The proof will be in the wins! If she gets to the Finals, the volume will increase exponentially (and will be well deserved). LOL!

 

[DishNSwish]

I always enjoy how some people express opinions as facts and they are assumed correct on message boards.

My words of advice are always take all the negativity (and overly positive responses for that matter) with a grain of salt because most of it is probably just not accurate.

 

[baylorprof]

No reason to try to change anyone's perception/dislike of Kim's antics. They come from deep in side a woman who still wants to put on a uniform and play and her antics are the way that mental/physical energy is vented.

However, though it might not be obvious to those who only see the highlight clips when she goes over the edge, this team of no-names (at least last year when they were a support casst for Sims, has now actually begun to mellow Kim. She's STILL over the edge, but not nearly as much, and her in-game relationship with her players is completely changing for the better because she seeing a bunch of over-achievers who are willing to work as hard as she does.

Probably that's just age. Her son is a soph baseballer at LSU and many of us believe as soon as he's done Kim will sail off into a sunset somewhere and find another challenge. Her bball fire will burn until she separates herself with a third NC (to rise above the other four schools that have 2).

Kim does NOT aspire to be a career Geno I am convinced. She knows Geno and previous Pat are models that are one-time deals. She's payed too well, her kids are gone (daughter getting married this summer) and I don't see Kim, still a young coach by many standards, making a career of it trying to be the sequel to La Tech, Tennessee, UCONN, and then Baylor.

In fact, her personna is such that if she could do so and be fair to her team/recruits, I think she has the makeup to walk away ANY time she gets fed up with having to be "made up" for the cameras, putting up with critics of her Louisiana crude in your face way of talking into a mike, and all the politics that go on around D1 athletics.

She's NOT a candidate for television commentary. She IS a candidate for buying a beach house in Florida where she takes her yearly 10 week vacation in late summer during recruiting lull and presseason prep.

If/when she is fortunate to make a final game, win or lose, if the loss is fair and legit, I don't expect to see her stick with it too long. And if she should win that final game, if her team is senior laden, I'd bet that's all it would take for her to let it all go.

Too many words. She IS, (and she brings it on herself with her antics) one of the most misunderstood coaches in the nation. She has cared for her players (inside the NCAA limits) in ways that have never been publicized, and deep in side is a caring, great lady. She just doesn't show it externally.

And no, I'm just a prof fan; I'm not her PR agent.

 

[DobbsRover2]

What really bugs me about the Holly issue is that Dawn has gotten so much attention this year and has the exact same conference record as Holly. They both share the title. AND Holly did this with a VERY depleted injured team playing the top schedule in WCBB. Very impressive to me.

Holly has won an SEC title every year that she has been a head coach. I think her short resume keeps her from getting the respect of others. I get it, but the numbers don't lie. The real test is the NCAA though, where Dawn hasn't done anything better.

5 losses versus 2 losses, 2 championships (co-regular + SECT) versus 1 (co-regular), 2 losses on the season to USCar, and double the number of top 10 recruits over the last 4 years (4 versus 2) by HoopGurlz assesment but less to show for it may be at least part of the reason Dawn gets more favorable press this year than Holly. I'm sure if you pondered further, you would also be able to add to the list.

 

[geneticrex]

Great post.. However, Muffet's Championship was no fluke in my view; she simply out coached the UCONN staff. UCONN's best players were playing in that game - another whole conversation. As a matter of fact, when the talent level of the players are close (post Diggins), the ND staff has held its own against UCONN.

While I agree ND won their lone title fair and square, I find it interesting you don't consider senior leaders and All-Americans Shea Ralph and Svetlana Abrosimova as "best players".

 

[stwainfan]

5 losses versus 2 losses, 2 championships (co-regular + SECT) versus 1 (co-regular), 2 losses on the season to USCar, and double the number of top 10 recruits over the last 4 years (4 versus 2) by HoopGurlz assesment but less to show for it may be at least part of the reason Dawn gets more favorable press this year than Holly. I'm sure if you pondered further, you would also be able to add to the list.

Dawn has also had a full roster. Holly has had injuries and a transfer.