Kelsey Mitchell is not an All American...

[CocoHusky]

Another thread judging how good a player is based on stats? Skylar Diggins never scored much against UConn but when she did, the shots were daggers. She's a playmaker, like Mitchell. Mitchell single-handedly kept OSU in the game last night.

Is the person with these stats a "good" player?
6.7 points per game (31.5% from three, 43.8% overall)
5.2 rebounds per game
4.3 assists per game
in 28.9 minutes per game

Single- handedly is not a good thing in a sport that is designed and played best in a team concept. I could just as easily make the argument that Mitchell cost tOSU the game by the way she dominated the ball and disproportionate amount of her shot attempts. For the amount of time that the ball was in Mitchell's hands 1 assists should not considered keeping your team in the game.

 

[CTtransplant]

I may have asked this before... my memory fades as Im aging... but I recognize Wait Chapel and Pilot Mountain in your avatar. Are you a WFU fan, graduate ?

Yes. Years ago. Wake basketball was super popular when I was there, and we had to sleep out for tickets to the games. We used to go to games at Duke because there we always tickets available. Then you got a new coach, and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

[triaddukefan]

Yes. Years ago. Wake basketball was super popular when I was there, and we had to sleep out for tickets to the games. We used to go to games at Duke because there we always tickets available. Then you got a new coach, and the rest, as they say, is history.

I was in 2nd grade when we got that new coach His first few years were a bit rough..... but eventually he turned it around

Did Wake play on-campus then.... or were they playing in the old Coliseum ?

 

[iamcbs]

So we've started basing who is and who's not an All-American on one game?

 

[CocoHusky]

So we've started basing who is and who's not an All-American on one game?

No, more like continued than start. Remember Brianna Turner & Nina Davis were also deemed not worthy of AA status.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

...
No one is denying the genius of Geno or that he is one of a kind. However, his greatest strength is that he takes super talented players and makes them sacrifice individual accolades for the sake of the team.
... IMO.

Geno doesn't make his players do anything. He presents a vision (almost cerainly before they even arrive in Storrs) of what can be achieved if they perform as he directs. They, then, choose to commit (or not -- not offered) to that vision and work (or not -- don't play/transfer) toward that performance. The program is the evidence of those visions, directions, commitments, and effort.

 

[CTtransplant]

I was in 2nd grade when we got that new coach His first few years were a bit rough..... but eventually he turned it around

Did Wake play on-campus then.... or were they playing in the old Coliseum ?

They played in the Coliseum.

I spent 13 years living in Europe, and moved to CT in 2000. I had never watched a women's basketball game until I accidentally found UConn playing on the PBS station. I watched Sveta, and was amazed. I also loved the style of basketball. I was soon a fan. I now only watch the UConn women. They remind me of the UCLA teams that I loved growing up. Team basketball, and respectful, high caliber, well spoken individuals off the court.

 

[bballnut90]

View attachment 17822

Despite being know for friendly fluff pieces, I'm taking a stand against calling players who do little else than score tons of points, All Americans. Ohio State's Kelsey Mitchell is one of those talented players who dominates the headlines by scoring, and scoring and scoring. Yes, she single handedly kept Ohio State close against UConn by pouring in 19 first half points. Three of those points came on a near half court bomb as time ran out in the half. She has talent, no doubt. But, how about the 3rd and 4th periods?

Mitchell ended up scoring 4 points the rest of the game, bringing her total to 23. She took 24 shots and made 9. That is 37.5%. Here is a list of UConn players that shot better than that last night.

1. Gabby went 3-5 or 60%
2. Napheesa went 9-19 or 47.4%
3. Katie Lou went 8-21 or 38.1%
4. Crystal went 3-5 or 60%
5. Kia went 4-11 or 36.4% which was almost equal to Michell.

So basically, the WHOLE starting Huskies' line up shot the ball the same or better than Mitchell, in OSU's biggest game of the year.

What else did Kelsey do to beat UConn? Well, she had 1 assist. That's right, 1 and only 1 assist. She also had 2 rebounds and 3 steals vs 3 turnovers and 3 fouls. I'm sorry, not All American statistics.

What to see a real All American..?? Check out the picture above... Collier had 27 points (on fewer shots), 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 8-9 or 88% from the free throw line, 1 block, 1 steal and only 1 turnover.

Go Pheesa..!!

If having a less than stellar game against Connecticut means you're not worthy of being an All American, then half of the All American recipients in the last decade wouldn't make a team. Off the top of my head, Seimone Augustus, Tamika Catchings, Brittney Griner, Angel McCoughtry, Odyssey Sims, Chiney Ogwumike, Jewell Loyd, Alana Beard, Skylar Diggins, and Nneka Ogwumike have all had worse performances against Connecticut than the one Mitchell had last night. Many many gold medals, All-American honors, All-WNBA honors, etc. have been won by this crew. In summary, performing poorly against Connecticut doesn't mean squat.

Yes--Kelsey Mitchell takes a lot of shots. Her team needs her to. McGuff should have a better offensive system with all of the talent on his roster, but he doesn't and wants Mitchell taking 20+ shots per game at this point. She isn't a ball hog, it's her role on the team.

Also, you cannot compare UCONN player shooting percentages with non-UCONN players. Connecticut's offense is so darn efficient and ahead of anyone else's in college basketball, that players get really clean looks at the basket and uncontested shots. OSU's is not that strong, meaning Mitchell needs to play a lot of one on one and create her own shot. Many times these shots are quite difficult and heavily contested. UCONN players have the luxury of playing team basketball, where they'll be pulled if they take half the shots Mitchell attempts, and their team first offense ultimately means they do not need to take tough shots. Perimeter players get wide open looks for 3 and open midrange jumpers. Forwards get clean looks and great positioning within a few feet of the basket. As a result, they shoot for really really high percentages. If you took Mitchell, threw her on UCONN for 2 months, I guarantee that her PPG would be down, but her FG% jumps up like crazy. As would her assist/TO ratio. I wouldn't say that about all players, but I have little doubt that Mitchell would adjust accordingly and become a star at UCONN with lower points, higher assists, and higher efficiency.

 

[jdubct]

She was a first team AP All-American last season. She has improved her game and it wouldn't surprise me at all if she's selected as an All-American this year.

 

[Striper69]

AA.

Like most AA's UCONN came up against Geno devised a defensive tactic that shut her down in the 2nd half.

That says more about the rest of her team than it says about her. Or maybe it says a lot about her.

 

[Sonny44]

Single- handedly is not a good thing in a sport that is designed and played best in a team concept. I could just as easily make the argument that Mitchell cost tOSU the game by the way she dominated the ball and disproportionate amount of her shot attempts. For the amount of time that the ball was in Mitchell's hands 1 assists should not considered keeping your team in the game.

I think under pressure she gets impatient with her mates and throws everything on her shoulders. That ridiculous charge she made with about 3 minutes left in the 3rd quarter reminded me of some of the dumb things McBride did under similar circumstances.

 

[HuskyNan]

Single- handedly is not a good thing in a sport that is designed and played best in a team concept. I could just as easily make the argument that Mitchell cost tOSU the game by the way she dominated the ball and disproportionate amount of her shot attempts. For the amount of time that the ball was in Mitchell's hands 1 assists should not considered keeping your team in the game.

And yet McGuff kept her in the game for 38 minutes, which means she's doing what her coach wants of her.

Kelsey Mitchell leads her team in assists this season with an average 3.5 per game. The fact she didn't come close to her average means that UConn was doing a good job of defending the ball and disrupting the offense. If OSU couldn't run its usual offense, that means someone had to find a way to score, and Mitchell did. She made some spectacular plays to keep her team in the game and yet people are going to knock her for it. The kid put the team on her back and tried to carry them to victory. Maybe she lost her mind on a few plays and maybe she panicked here and there but to denigrate an excellent player based on one game against the best coached team in the NCAA is wrong-minded and small, IMO.

 

[hjoerring]

If Mitchell is an AA based on the first 20 minutes, then she is not even all conference based on the last 20 minutes. She was shut down by Crystal Dangerfield, who face guarded her all over the court. All Americans don't get shut down by freshman, even good ones.

Either you reformed your initial post-- f.ex., should Mitchell be voted as an AA based on ....? Or, you accept that those doing the voting ought to change the criteria for the achievement. She is an AA based on a some criteria shared by the relevant experts. Now, I am in agreement that she is not the player I would like to play with or put on a team. Her playing style is hard to take seriously at this level-- a one woman show with some good players around her, but they have little or no chance to do much. Perhaps her play will work at the pro level. It reminds me of a couple of superstars at the Pro-level who go one-against-5 (the Knicks superstar-- no name). Personally, OH would be a better team without her because they have some good transfers and recruits. But for now (perhaps) its about entertainment- not form and content. I'm not sure why someone mentioned Turner as a non-AA. She is a wholly different animal, in my view.

 

[Kibitzer]

Kelsey Mitchell is an All-American talent who is playing for the wrong coach. Don't blame her for McGuff's apparent inability to blend his collection of individual talents into an efficiently functioning team.

She's got game!

 

[cohenzone]

Well, instead of saying Mitchell is not an all american, I prefer to say that Collier and KLS and Gabby are.

I have taken issue with the idea that "we have Geno and you don't", championed by Antonelli. That thinking has lead many posters to parrot phrases like "we don't have the best talent on the floor" or don't have "overwhelming" talent. This is a myth, IMO. Geno himself said last night about his sophomores, "they are not exactly walk-ons, they where among the top-10 coming out of high school".

No one is denying the genius of Geno or that he is one of a kind. However, his greatest strength is that he takes super talented players and makes them sacrifice individual accolades for the sake of the team. He makes his players share in each others talents, masking the superiority of their individual skills. This is why superstars like Stewart averaged rather ordinary pts/gm totals. Trying to separate the impact of Geno's coaching from the impact of talented players is as fruitless as trying to pick out the "bad-ass" player of the game, from a group which emphasizes playing as a team. It is near impossible. UConn has both the talent and the coach. IMO.

Yes. That's what separated John Wooden. Yes he had great talent to work with, and his success led to a pipeline of great players. But he got those great players to play as a team. That is Geno's overarching ability.

FWIW, Kelsey Mitchell is a great talent and a worthy AA. GA changed the second half D on her, often having two defenders running at her and denying her the space to operate. It was up to her coach to devise a scheme to make UConn pay for that. Especially with Cooper on the floor. KM isn't the first great player to be frustrated by a UConn defense.

 

[meyers7]

There are plenty of players who could score a lot if they were given a green light to shoot, however;

Doubt there are too many AA level players who are not given the green light to shoot.

 

[meyers7]

The point is Geno is not about making AA of his players

Try telling that to Tina Charles.

 

[meyers7]

If Mitchell is an AA based on the first 20 minutes, then she is not even all conference based on the last 20 minutes. She was shut down by Crystal Dangerfield, who face guarded her all over the court.

No she wasn't. She was shut down by a combined team effort of double teaming.

Look, we have some really good defenders, Williams, Nurse, but she was making them look silly 1v1. Wasn't until we changed up our defense that we were able to contain her.

 

[slug25]

Either you reformed your initial post-- f.ex., should Mitchell be voted as an AA based on ....? Or, you accept that those doing the voting ought to change the criteria for the achievement. She is an AA based on a some criteria shared by the relevant experts. Now, I am in agreement that she is not the player I would like to play with or put on a team. Her playing style is hard to take seriously at this level-- a one woman show with some good players around her, but they have little or no chance to do much. Perhaps her play will work at the pro level. It reminds me of a couple of superstars at the Pro-level who go one-against-5 (the Knicks superstar-- no name). Personally, OH would be a better team without her because they have some good transfers and recruits. But for now (perhaps) its about entertainment- not form and content. I'm not sure why someone mentioned Turner as a non-AA. She is a wholly different animal, in my view.

In judging All-America worthiness, performance against the best teams should count more than gaudy numbers posted against the cupcakes on the schedule. In this vein, neither Davis, Turner nor Mitchell showed me AA chops. The kid from Florida State whose name I can't recall definitely did, however.

 

[pvdoggy]

People who put down K. Mitchell and K.Plum talents are confused between talent and the system they are in. Put Pheesa on tOSU team and K.Mitchell on UConn team and the picture may look very different for those 2 players.

 

[mhshuskies]

Kelsey is an amazing talent but she may need to learn not to taunt the dragon. Made a big shot at the first half buzzer to give her 19 and then strikes the kind of in your face pose. That might have got some notice because she only got 4 points in the second half.

 

[BobbyJ]

Kelsey Mitchell is an All-American talent who is playing for the wrong coach. Don't blame her for McGuff's apparent inability to blend his collection of individual talents into an efficiently functioning team.

She's got game!

Well now, maybe there's a solution for McGuff's inability to install a functional, recognizable offense. Maybe he could follow Staley's lead and go out and entice a compatible offensive mind like say, Warlick from Tennessee to come in as his offensive coordinator. Together they could work wonders with all that talent.

 

[CocoHusky]

Kelsey is an amazing talent but she may need to learn not to taunt the dragon. Made a big shot at the first half buzzer to give her 19 and then strikes the kind of in your face pose. That might have got some notice because she only got 4 points in the second half.

Not correct. The big shot after which Mitchell struck a pose was to end the 1st QUARTER, not the first half. That basket made the score 19 to 16 for UCONN so Mitchell could not have had 19 points at that point because tOSU only had 16. I believe she scored 7 Points in the 1st quarter and 19 for the half.

 

[DavidinNaples]

Let me repeat, Kelsey Mitchell is a very, very talented player. She is a tremendous scorer who has already scored 2,057 points, just 13 games into her Junior season. My opinion is that the rest of her game is below All American level and the UConn game, both this season and last, illustrates that. I'm giving an opinion, not denigrating Kelsey Mitchell. Consider:

1. Mitchell has taken 1,530 shots in her 82 game career. MoJeff took 1,106 in four years. At her current pace, Mitchell will take more shots in three years than Stewie took in four. I get it, her job is to score and she shoots 43.5% from the field for her career.
2. For her career, Mitchell has 305 assists and 288 turnovers. That is a pedestrian 1.05 assist to turnover ratio. She is almost as likely to turn the ball over as get it to a shooter who then makes the shot. Yes, some brilliant passes do not turn into assists because the shooter misses.
3. Mitchell is currently 8th on her team in rebounding. She has 1 blocked shot in 13 games. So, rebounding and shot blocking are not her specialty. That makes sense as she is reported to be 5'8".
4. Mitchell has led her team in personal fouls every season. Her 238 fouls average out to 2.9 fouls per game. Sometimes, her tendency to foul keeps her on the bench in foul trouble.
5. Kelsey has 22 steals in 13 games this season. That leads her team. Napheesa has 21 in 10 games for UConn and Gabby has 27.
6. Her 39 turnovers this season would rank #1 on UConn. In fairness, Gabby has 30 in 10 games, which is the same 3 per game as Mitchell.

Mitchell is a great shooter and scores tons of points. In my opinion, her totals in assists, turnovers, steals, rebounds and fouls keeps her off my All American team. My opinion and 50 cents will get you a hot coffee at McDonald's.

 

[CocoHusky]

People who put down K. Mitchell and K.Plum talents are confused between talent and the system they are in. Put Pheesa on tOSU team and K.Mitchell on UConn team and the picture may look very different for those 2 players.

The systems don't get nominated for AA status, the players that play within the system do. Your proposed swap of Pheesa for Kelsey is an interesting one. In this years UCONN lineup Colllier is one of 3 former McDonalds AA players. tOSU also has 3 former McDonalds AA players in the starting line up. In the UCONN system every player is maximized. In the tOSU HS AA player like Mavunga and Calhoun are relegated to being spectators because of the way Mitchell dominates the ball. I agree with you and others that the coach (Kevin) should take the bulk of the blame for the failure of the system to maximize all the players.
AA consideration should never be based on one game. In the 10 Games that UCONN has played so far this year we have seem at least two performances that were better all around performances than Mitchell had against UCONN- Alexis Jones (Baylor) & Brown of FSU. I not trying put Kelsey Mitchell down, I'm just not ready to stamp her AA card based on that performance against UCONN. Imani Wright scored more points against UCONN this year than Mitchell did. Does anyone remember which team Imani played for?