I want UMass in the league

[nelsonmuntz]

Invite UMass and Tulsa. UConn desperately needs a local rival, and it needs to improve the basketball side of the league. UMass will draw better at the Rent than a ranked ECU or Houston team, and the HCC would be a guaranteed sell out. UConn needs a rival in this new league, and Cincinnati and Temple don't cut it.

UMass, together with Cincinnati, Memphis and Temple, would give UConn 4 Top 75 basketball programs in conference to try and build a schedule around.

Tulsa would bring a borderline Top 25 football program from a region that produces enough high school football talent that even the Big 12 castoffs are still very good.

Break it up North/South:

North: UConn, UMass, Cincinnati, Memphis, ECU, Temple

South: UCF, USF, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, Houston

Obviously, the league would be completely unbalanced in basketball, but so what. UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Temple and UMass need to play each other to build up RPI. ECU would start the season essentially 0-10 in conference, but so what? In football, you set it up so that every northern school is guaranteed a trip to Texas or Florida every year.

I don't imagine that UMass or Tulsa helps or hurts the TV contract all that much at the levels were are at now. The gate becomes important though. With Rutgers and Syracuse gone, UConn needs a local rival.

 

[Dooley]

I'm all for playing them OOC, but if we are on conference par with the likes of UMass in any sport, we might as well stop playing sports.

 

[kingdobbs]

I'm all for playing them OOC, but if we are on conference par with the likes of UMass in any sport, we might as well stop playing sports.

Well, then good thing we didn't just join a hockey league that has UMass in it...

...Oops.

 

[Mark W]

I'm all for playing them OOC, but if we are on conference par with the likes of UMass in any sport, we might as well stop playing sports.

As a UMass fan, and one that is well aware of our position now without any delusions, I find this an asinine statement. UMass came to the football dance a decade late...I'm well aware of that. There are going to be growing pains, and if we continue to schedule the Wisconsins, Kansas States, and Michigans, it's gonna hurt!! That said, they've committed to growing a viable program and I have confidence they will. Basketball is on the rise and a top 60 RPI now with a great recruiting class coming in next year. Now before the onslaught of posts citing your 3 NC's, I concede...NO, we do not have that pedigree...and to your credit, not many do. Hockey, men's and women's lacrosse, field hockey, softball, and every other sport with the exception of women's basketball (horendous) are fine. So go ahead and judge an entire athletic dept on the results of their first year in FBS football. Very shallow view if you ask me.

 

[metsfan2323]

If the league must expand UMASS is by far its best option. The league probably needs to have North and South divisions to accommodate travel for the non revenue producing sports.

Strengthening UMASS also gives BC a swift kick in the nuts.

UCONN blocking UMASS to protect football recruiting is shortsighted IMO. The benefits from having a rival and shoring up the basketball league far outweigh the cost of the 2- 4 football recruits we will lose to them per year.

Every UCONN basketball only fan should be waving the banner to bring UMASS on board, they don't hurt basketball recruiting at all and give the conference a team on par with Providence which is something the new basketball league needs.

A year ago most posters on this board hated the idea of adding Memphis and Temple and now we realize there is no basketball league without them.

 

[UC990411]

We need less teams, not more teams. More teams like UMass don't bring in money and steal money from us. Stop with the Umass Stop

 

[TRest]

I'm all for playing them OOC, but if we are on conference par with the likes of UMass in any sport, we might as well stop playing sports.

Have you seen the other schools in the nBE? Houston is a power in men's golf; some may be decent at baseball. As an overall athletic program we already surpass the rest of the conference, adding UMass (assuming Navy backs out) helps UConn more than any other realistic option left.

 

[Mark W]

We need less teams, not more teams. More ty teams like UMass don't bring in money and steal money from us. Stop with the Umass bull

This is exactly the type of attitude that has permeated both the Boneyard and UMasshoops boards for too long. Both boards have a majority of knowledgeable sports fans with a good grasp on reality that realize what is good for New England collegiate sports benefits all teams involved!! Then there's the folks (on both boards) that have such a skewed sense of self worth that any conversation is impossible. If UConn is such a cash cow, what are you doing in this dumpster-fire of a conference? Are you aware that as much as you badmouth the MAC, you've lost to Western Michigan( a middle of the road team in the MAC) 2 years in a row? There...did I accomplish anything there saying things just to demean? That type of discourse, although I know it is what message boards are made of, contributes nothing to finding a solution for 2 teams looking for a good place to land in this realignment. UConn and Cincy should be the leaders in trying to form a strong and viable northeast conference that works for all concerned. That's tough to do when you fancy yourself superior and spend your time looking down your nose!!!!

 

[1husky]

As some others have said, UMass and VCU are two teams I could almost give a crap about. Not so much for SMU, UCF, etc. and at least they are in the east and large publics. I could see Shaka Smart and Kevin Ollie starting a great rivalry as two top young African American coaches. The media might even get behind it.

 

[Dooley]

As a UMass fan, and one that is well aware of our position now without any delusions, I find this an asinine statement. UMass came to the football dance a decade late...I'm well aware of that. There are going to be growing pains, and if we continue to schedule the Wisconsins, Kansas States, and Michigans, it's gonna hurt!! That said, they've committed to growing a viable program and I have confidence they will. Basketball is on the rise and a top 60 RPI now with a great recruiting class coming in next year. Now before the onslaught of posts citing your 3 NC's, I concede...NO, we do not have that pedigree...and to your credit, not many do. Hockey, men's and women's lacrosse, field hockey, softball, and every other sport with the exception of women's basketball (horendous) are fine. So go ahead and judge an entire athletic dept on the results of their first year in FBS football. Very shallow view if you ask me.

All good points and, like I said earlier, I'm all for scheduling OOC games against UMass in all sports. The point I am hung up on the most is money.

UConn athletic budget: around $65M
UMass athletic budget: around $25M

As you know, the NNNNNBE 2.0 TV contract is worth about as much money to be able to afford to dine from a fast food dollar menu (thanks Aresco!), and now I'm supposed to want to share that small pittance with more hungry mouths?? No thanks. Not to mention, wasn't there recently a vote that *almost* voted to move UMass back to FCS?? That doesn't instill confidence in me that UMass is "here to stay".

I'm all for playing UMass as an annual OOC rivalry type of game until the athletic program (namely football) proves, over time, that it is here to stay and will be in the MAC forever...not subject to a season to season vote. I don't, by any means, think UConn football is on par with Alabama, Texas, or Michigan. The reason UConn is still left in the dark is because schools like that don't want to share money with young programs like UConn. I get it. UConn has to, over time, prove that it is here to stay, can be competitive, and, most importantly, generate revenue to get an invite into a power conference. The same holds for UMass, in my opinion.

It's not personal. It's strictly business. Sorry.

 

[Mark W]

All good points and, like I said earlier, I'm all for scheduling OOC games against UMass in all sports. The point I am hung up on the most is money.

UConn athletic budget: around $65M
UMass athletic budget: around $25M

As you know, the NNNNNBE 2.0 TV contract is worth about as much money to be able to afford to dine from a fast food dollar menu (thanks Aresco!), and now I'm supposed to want to share that small pittance with more hungry mouths?? No thanks. Not to mention, wasn't there recently a vote that *almost* voted to move UMass back to FCS?? That doesn't instill confidence in me that UMass is "here to stay".

I'm all for playing UMass as an annual OOC rivalry type of game until the athletic program (namely football) proves, over time, that it is here to stay and will be in the MAC forever...not subject to a season to season vote. I don't, by any means, think UConn football is on par with Alabama, Texas, or Michigan. The reason UConn is still left in the dark is because schools like that don't want to share money with young programs like UConn. I get it. UConn has to, over time, prove that it is here to stay, can be competitive, and, most importantly, generate revenue to get an invite into a power conference. The same holds for UMass, in my opinion.

It's not personal. It's strictly business. Sorry.

If we are talking money only...I guess I see your point. I guess my point would be is that if you are going to share with somebody would you rather it be ECU? I see strong rivalries in the northeast as a long term benefit for everyone.

As far as that vote, please don't listen to that blowhard Hohler at the Globe. He has a sharp axe and swings it at UMass any chance he gets. The faculty Senate, led by 2 disgruntled professors, pushed for a vote to explore the possibility of going back to FCS. That body has absolutely no authority and the vote would have carried absolutely no mandate to UMass to act in any way. Hohler wrote 2 pieces on it and he was never even present at the proceedings. The only thing he accomplished was muddy the waters recruiting wise and force the coaching staff to reassure commits we will be around. Chancellor Subswammy voiced is commitment to FBS football. In a cash strapped economy, would UMass spend 37 million on MAC dictated upgrades to McGuirk? Construction starts in the spring. As far as the voting to stay in the MAC....standard practice for the MAC for transitional schools (especially ones that don't come in for all sports).

 

[Dooley]

If we are talking money only...I guess I see your point. I guess my point would be is that if you are going to share with somebody would you rather it be ECU? I see strong rivalries in the northeast as a long term benefit for everyone.

As far as that vote, please don't listen to that blowhard Hohler at the Globe. He has a sharp axe and swings it at UMass any chance he gets. The faculty Senate, led by 2 disgruntled professors, pushed for a vote to explore the possibility of going back to FCS. That body has absolutely no authority and the vote would have carried absolutely no mandate to UMass to act in any way. Hohler wrote 2 pieces on it and he was never even present at the proceedings. The only thing he accomplished was muddy the waters recruiting wise and force the coaching staff to reassure commits we will be around. Chancellor Subswammy voiced is commitment to FBS football. In a cash strapped economy, would UMass spend 37 million on MAC dictated upgrades to McGuirk? Construction starts in the spring. As far as the voting to stay in the MAC....standard practice for the MAC for transitional schools (especially ones that don't come in for all sports).

I actually think the gameday experience at ECU is pretty good. But I see your point. Yes, I'd rather have close geographic rivalries than ones superficially developed with the likes of Tulane or SMU. UConn and UMass can still have a rivalry if they're in separate conferences but, yes, it would be intensified if they were playing for more marbles like a conference bowl berth/championship.

I won't pretend to know something about this Hohler dude or Massachusetts politics. I'll take what you say as the gospel. All I know is that there was a vote and it was pretty damn close.

I guess I'll retract my earlier statement (I realize now it probably came off as being too harsh) if UMass spends the money to upgrade/expand their stadium and ups their athletic budget. That will be one thing UMass has going for it that I wish UConn had: an on-campus stadium.

 

[Chief00]

I for one wouldn't mind UMass in our conference - a natural rivalry - and we will have few of those

 

[ctchamps]

This is exactly the type of attitude that has permeated both the Boneyard and UMasshoops boards for too long. Both boards have a majority of knowledgeable sports fans with a good grasp on reality that realize what is good for New England collegiate sports benefits all teams involved!! Then there's the folks (on both boards) that have such a skewed sense of self worth that any conversation is impossible. If UConn is such a cash cow, what are you doing in this dumpster-fire of a conference? Are you aware that as much as you badmouth the MAC, you've lost to Western Michigan( a middle of the road team in the MAC) 2 years in a row? There...did I accomplish anything there saying things just to demean? That type of discourse, although I know it is what message boards are made of, contributes nothing to finding a solution for 2 teams looking for a good place to land in this realignment. UConn and Cincy should be the leaders in trying to form a strong and viable northeast conference that works for all concerned. That's tough to do when you fancy yourself superior and spend your time looking down your nose!!!!

There are several things going on at the same time. There is conference realignment, different conferences, different sports, different schools and different academics standards and goals to name just a few of the competing entities inserting themselves on decision making. They are all jostling for position and not always in alignment with one another. And then there are the outsiders - fans whose degree of emotional maturity and global perspective are as diversified in how we approach and handle things as the above mentioned entities.

I have my perspective, but I also recognize that the various viewpoints expressed in these forums (outside of the totally uniformed or off the wall suggestions) constitute a bigger picture than my limited computer can calculate. I'll engage various posters at times, I'll offer my viewpoint at times, but the reality for me is that the entire body of thought on any subject is frequently more significant than my need to win my perspective.

 

[Mark W]

I actually think the gameday experience at ECU is pretty good. But I see your point. Yes, I'd rather have close geographic rivalries than ones superficially developed with the likes of Tulane or SMU. UConn and UMass can still have a rivalry if they're in separate conferences but, yes, it would be intensified if they were playing for more marbles like a conference bowl berth/championship.

I won't pretend to know something about this Hohler dude or Massachusetts politics. I'll take what you say as the gospel. All I know is that there was a vote and it was pretty damn close.

I guess I'll retract my earlier statement (I realize now it probably came off as being too harsh) if UMass spends the money to upgrade/expand their stadium and ups their athletic budget. That will be one thing UMass has going for it that I wish UConn had: an on-campus stadium.

No one is happier that me that UMass upgraded football and is attempting to become relevant. But don't let me paint too pretty a picture here. We probably lead the northeast in an apathetic fan and alumni base. The screaming on the Umasshoops board is to add 10-12 thousand seats or build an off campus facility.My take is to get our heads out of our asses and fill up the 17,000 Mcguirk currently seats or put more than 12,000 in Gillette. Those 2 professors I mentioned would have a field day if we spent millions to add seats and 8,000 of us showed up. The onus now is clearly on the fans and alumni. I'm a season ticket holder in football and basketball, but we need many, many more.

There is the saying that winning cures all ills, and to some point I agree. It is showing in basketball now. I was a season ticket holder during the Calipari days and still during the Lappas days (can still see the tumbleweed blowing over the empty seats). We're somewhere in the middle now but getting better.

I can't expect everyone to share my optimism and I understand your "let's wait and see" approach.

 

[Hi-Low]

The media contract is so small didviding it 1 or 2 more ways is pretty minor. We'll be living off the exit/credit fees for a few years. If we leave the NBE in 1-2 years they need replacement anyway and if we are in NBE long term (god forbid) then WE need more regional teams. Bring in UMass, Ohio or anyone who can add something not from the state of Texas or Louisianna. Who knows in 4 years UMass could be a good, hope Uconn is in Big10/ACC by then but what's the harm in adding now?

 

[WestHartHusk]

Invite UMass and Tulsa. UConn desperately needs a local rival, and it needs to improve the basketball side of the league. UMass will draw better at the Rent than a ranked ECU or Houston team, and the HCC would be a guaranteed sell out. UConn needs a rival in this new league, and Cincinnati and Temple don't cut it.

UMass, together with Cincinnati, Memphis and Temple, would give UConn 4 Top 75 basketball programs in conference to try and build a schedule around.

Tulsa would bring a borderline Top 25 football program from a region that produces enough high school football talent that even the Big 12 castoffs are still very good.

Break it up North/South:

North: UConn, UMass, Cincinnati, Memphis, ECU, Temple

South: UCF, USF, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, Houston

Obviously, the league would be completely unbalanced in basketball, but so what. UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Temple and UMass need to play each other to build up RPI. ECU would start the season essentially 0-10 in conference, but so what? In football, you set it up so that every northern school is guaranteed a trip to Texas or Florida every year.

I don't imagine that UMass or Tulsa helps or hurts the TV contract all that much at the levels were are at now. The gate becomes important though. With Rutgers and Syracuse gone, UConn needs a local rival.

Nelson, come back to reality. The last thing this flaming paper bag needs is a school whose football team is going to fold up shop within 4 years. Neither the state, the university, the faculty, or most importantly the public, have bought into the sideshow at Foxboro - nor should we. The only sport of value in Amherst is hockey and we are joining them in HE - let's just leave that be.

 

[UConnDan97]

Nelson, come back to reality. The last thing this flaming paper bag needs is a school whose football team is going to fold up shop within 4 years.

Hey, hey, hey now. A week ago, Nelson wanted us to shut our football program down. Now, his only wish is to play against a university that wishes to close their program down. I call that "progress"...

 

[Vuce]

I guess I'll retract my earlier statement (I realize now it probably came off as being too harsh) if UMass spends the money to upgrade/expand their stadium and ups their athletic budget. That will be one thing UMass has going for it that I wish UConn had: an on-campus stadium.

I live up in western Mass and know about the background here. Make no mistake about it- Umass is not playing a majority of their games in that place even after the upgrade. Their stadium is like our our old Memorial Stadium with a new press box and some new seats and some other upgrades. They still plan on playing most of their games at Gilette (and our fans complain about playing in East Hartford 30 min from campus - imagine if we were playing 2 HOURS from campus?) The Mass legislature treats Umass like CCSU or ECSU - which I guess is appropriate for this new league (see ECU, UCF, etc) and why Uconn is like a fish out of water. Umass fits better than we do by far in this league.

Also, if Uconn is not out of this thing within 3 or 4 years we are ducked anyway and whether Umass or UNH is in the conference won't matter much - it will bea glorified Yankee Conference - I dont care what anyone posts here - that is what it will be.

 

[Mark W]

I live up in western Mass and know about the background here. Make no mistake about it- Umass is not playing a majority of their games in that place even after the upgrade. Their stadium is like our our old Memorial Stadium with a new press box and some new seats and some other upgrades. They still plan on playing most of their games at Gilette (and our fans complain about playing in East Hartford 30 min from campus - imagine if we were playing 2 HOURS from campus?) The Mass legislature treats Umass like CCSU or ECSU - which I guess is appropriate for this new league (see ECU, UCF, etc) and why Uconn is like a fish out of water. Umass fits better than we do by far in this league.

Also, if Uconn is not out of this thing within 3 or 4 years we are ducked anyway and whether Umass or UNH is in the conference won't matter much - it will bea glorified Yankee Conference - I dont care what anyone posts here - that is what it will be.

Gee, I guess living in Conn. makes me an expert on the political landscape at UConn....oh well, enough of that

A couple of points
First....there are no new seats going into phase 1 of the upgrades of McGuirk...locker rooms, training facility, offices, press box, electonic upgrades for enhanced video purposes...that's it
Second...the contract with Kraft is not open-ended. It is going to expire and at that point we can try to negotiate with him to play any big OOC games there, but MAC games will be at McGuirk, along with any FCS games or OOC games against smaller opponents. Your premise that UMass would spend 37 million dollars to refurbish a stadium they won't play games in is laughable.

And for anyone interested in a fact (I know, they just get in the way)..That Faculty Senate that held the vote has the same authority and decision making ability as the Boneyard does...so you've got a thread here to shut down football...guess neither of us will be around in 4 years

 

[Adios]

And for anyone interested in a fact (I know, they just get in the way)..That Faculty Senate that held the vote has the same authority and decision making ability as the Boneyard does...so you've got a thread here to shut down football...guess neither of us will be around in 4 years

No one at the school is asking to shut down our football program. Sio Moore said we're on the map. It sure seems to me we are.

I would definitely welcome UMass to the league. We still have a better stadium and game day than them.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson, come back to reality. The last thing this flaming paper bag needs is a school whose football team is going to fold up shop within 4 years. Neither the state, the university, the faculty, or most importantly the public, have bought into the sideshow at Foxboro - nor should we. The only sport of value in Amherst is hockey and we are joining them in HE - let's just leave that be.

The worst possible idea, which you support, is the status quo in the nnbe.

 

[Vuce]

Gee, I guess living in Conn. makes me an expert on the political landscape at UConn....oh well, enough of that

A couple of points
First....there are no new seats going into phase 1 of the upgrades of McGuirk...locker rooms, training facility, offices, press box, electonic upgrades for enhanced video purposes...that's it
Second...the contract with Kraft is not open-ended. It is going to expire and at that point we can try to negotiate with him to play any big OOC games there, but MAC games will be at McGuirk, along with any FCS games or OOC games against smaller opponents. Your premise that UMass would spend 37 million dollars to refurbish a stadium they won't play games in is laughable.

And for anyone interested in a fact (I know, they just get in the way)..That Faculty Senate that held the vote has the same authority and decision making ability as the Boneyard does...so you've got a thread here to shut down football...guess neither of us will be around in 4 years

Oh yeah I worked in the Mass State House for a state rep for 5 years too - so actually I DO have insight as to how and what they think about Umass there.

And my point about McGuirk stands - it will be a glorified 1-AA stadium with a max of 25,000 seats eventually. That screams small time no matter what kind of scoreboard you have there. And thanks for clarifying the Gilette deal - since that will end it makes the situation even more laughable - so we will invite Umass into this league with an expiring Gilette deal and a stadium that currently seats 17,000 and eventually a whopping 25,000? Yeah, that will help the league's rep.

For those of you pumping Umass to this league read what Mark wrote above - his words not mine - you want a school with those kinds of facilities (the upgraded ones) and plan in this conference?

 

[Adios]

Oh yeah I worked in the Mass State House for a state rep for 5 years too - so actually I DO have insight as to how and what they think about Umass there.

And my point about McGuirk stands - it will be a glorified 1-AA stadium with a max of 25,000 seats eventually. That screams small time no matter what kind of scoreboard you have there. And thanks for clarifying the Gilette deal - since that will end it makes the situation even more laughable - so we will invite Umass into this league with an expiring Gilette deal and a stadium that currently seats 17,000 and eventually a whopping 25,000? Yeah, that will help the league's rep.

For those of you pumping Umass to this league read what Mark wrote above - his words not mine - you want a school with those kinds of facilities (the upgraded ones) and plan in this conference?

This conference is crap anyway. Might as well add our old rival for yearly beatings.

 

[metsfan2323]

.so you've got a thread here to shut down football...guess neither of us will be around in 4 years

The person who started that thread is nuts. He simultaneously thinks we are currently third on the B1G's list to expand and we should shut football down. Tomorrow he will post that he doesn't want UMASS in the league.