I hope ESPN is happy with what they did to hoops

[nelsonmuntz]

Big 12 tournament game looked like a funeral. The stands for any ACC game not involving Duke or UNC are going to be pretty empty. Even the second night of the BET, with scrub schools playing, there is more juice than you will see in any Big 12 tournament game not involving Kansas.

ESPN still has the Pac 12 final, which is broadcast at a very mid-majorish 11 pm EDT. How did they convince the Big West to move their final? ESPN is basically saying that half the content of a league they just paid a fortune for is worthless.

Fox got the prize of college basketball for a song when it signed the Big East. ESPN really screwed the pooch on this one, and say what you will about football driving the bus, ESPN depends on CBB for a lot of programming between late November and mid-March. How many ACC games can they broadcast next year? No one cares about SEC basketball outside of Kentucky, Florida, Vanderbilt, Tennessee and Missouri. Mid season rivalry games draw 5k at a lot of SEC schools.

On the flip side, I suspect that with all the content ESPN has lost, the top America 12 matchups will get prime time broadcasts, because ESPN has almost nothing else to show.

 

[whaler11]

The C7 is the 'prize' of college basketball. No wonder you bash ESPN, you work for Fox.

 

[zls44]

I'd wait for nelson to finally admit that he has been proven completely, entirely, unmistakably wrong on every claim he has made on this subject, but that would require a basic level of logic he clearly does not posses.

In other words:

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The C7 is the 'prize' of college basketball. No wonder you bash ESPN, you work for Fox.

It will do very well on Fox. Of the Top 7 basketball leagues going forward, ESPN only has #1, the ACC, and #7, the SEC. The Big East, Big 12, Big 10, MWC and Pac 12 are all in part or in full on other networks, and ESPN's share of their content is only shrinking.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I'd wait for nelson to finally admit that he has been proven completely, entirely, unmistakably wrong on every claim he has made on this subject, but that would require a basic level of logic he clearly does not posses.

In other words:

We have already had this argument, and I kicked your ass. Move on.

 

[sammydabiz]

Fox got the prize of college basketball for a song when it signed the Big East. ESPN really screwed the pooch on this one, and say what you will about football driving the bus, ESPN depends on CBB for a lot of programming between late November and mid-March. How many ACC games can they broadcast next year? No one cares about SEC basketball outside of Kentucky, Florida, Vanderbilt, Tennessee and Missouri. Mid season rivalry games draw 5k at a lot of SEC schools.

The prize?!? Nelson you're straight up delusional, the new big east is as much a prize as contracting herpes simplex 2.

If you think the Catholic7 and whichever sisters of the poor they decide to bring along is really going to hold any resemblence or cache as the once great Big East, you're sadly mistaken.

-Butler, albeit having a good coach, will never be a top program, hell they finished third in the A-10 this year.....good on them for makin the F4 2 years in a row, but lets be honest, it required some extreme luck, and they still didn't win a damn thing. They are already slowly being forgotten about.

- Half the schools in the Big East are going to be in the mid-west, a no one outside of Gtown has a national following (and their fanbase is suspect at best): no one cares about SH, SJU, Marq, DePaul, Creighton/Dayton, Butler, Xavier, Providence.....this is your prize?!?

- what made the tourney so great was the neighborhood juggernauts: UConn, Cuse, Gtown, and to a lesser extent in recent years Pitt, L'Ville, WV, and ND (due to having a well travelled fan base). What's left? Just Gtown, ya think MSG is going to be rockin with Marq vs Dayton?, heck I could name dozens of matchups that the avg New Yorker could give two sh!ts about. It won't be the same (not even close). When the contract runs out I'd expect MSG will be looking for greener pastures~ ala ACC

Please tell me this prize you speak ok? Atleast the Pac12 has a national champion from this millenium, the last time anyone from your "prize" hoisted the championship crown was in the mid 80's, lol. Don't get me wrong I'm a full-fledged BSPN hater, but Fox has no prize sir.

 

[zls44]

We have already had this argument, and I kicked your ass. Move on.

A thoroughly analytical recap!

 

[zls44]

It will do very well on Fox. Of the Top 7 basketball leagues going forward, ESPN only has #1, the ACC, and #7, the SEC. The Big East, Big 12, Big 10, MWC and Pac 12 are all in part or in full on other networks, and ESPN's share of their content is only shrinking.

Other than ESPN expanding deals with the Pac-12 and MWC (three years ago neither tournament was on their air, next year both are), plus locking in most of the Big XII Tournament including the title game through 2025, you are dead-on.

 

[whaler11]

It will do very well on Fox. Of the Top 7 basketball leagues going forward, ESPN only has #1, the ACC, and #7, the SEC. The Big East, Big 12, Big 10, MWC and Pac 12 are all in part or in full on other networks, and ESPN's share of their content is only shrinking.

I think it's a better league than most around here but 'prize' is pretty strong. I'll believe people watch Fox's new stations when people actually watch them.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Other than ESPN expanding deals with the Pac-12 and MWC (three years ago neither tournament was on their air, next year both are), plus locking in most of the Big XII Tournament including the title game through 2025, you are dead-on.

So your position is that realignment has made college basketball better. Got it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The prize?!? Nelson you're straight up delusional, the new big east is as much a prize as contracting herpes simplex 2.

If you think the Catholic7 and whichever sisters of the poor they decide to bring along is really going to hold any resemblence or cache as the once great Big East, you're sadly mistaken.

-Butler, albeit having a good coach, will never be a top program, hell they finished third in the A-10 this year.....good on them for makin the F4 2 years in a row, but lets be honest, it required some extreme luck, and they still didn't win a damn thing. They are already slowly being forgotten about.

- Half the schools in the Big East are going to be in the mid-west, a no one outside of Gtown has a national following (and their fanbase is suspect at best): no one cares about SH, SJU, Marq, DePaul, Creighton/Dayton, Butler, Xavier, Providence.....this is your prize?!?

- what made the tourney so great was the neighborhood juggernauts: UConn, Cuse, Gtown, and to a lesser extent in recent years Pitt, L'Ville, WV, and ND (due to having a well travelled fan base). What's left? Just Gtown, ya think MSG is going to be rockin with Marq vs Dayton?, heck I could name dozens of matchups that the avg New Yorker could give two sh!ts about. It won't be the same (not even close). When the contract runs out I'd expect MSG will be looking for greener pastures~ ala ACC

Please tell me this prize you speak ok? Atleast the Pac12 has a national champion from this millenium, the last time anyone from your "prize" hoisted the championship crown was in the mid 80's, lol. Don't get me wrong I'm a full-fledged BSPN hater, but Fox has no prize sir.

This board really sounds like a bunch of jealous ex's when it tries to bash the C7. It's like saying that while your last girlfriend is now with a guy that is better looking, richer and better in bed than you are, she should be sorry about it because you are better at video games than he is. It is a ridiculous argument.

The C7 landed on their feet and will continue to be one of the top leagues in college basketball. America 12 sucks. It is what it is.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This board really sounds like a bunch of jealous ex's when it tries to bash the C7. It's like saying that while your last girlfriend is now with a guy that is better looking, richer and better in bed than you are, she should be sorry about it because you are better at video games than he is. It is a ridiculous argument.

The C7 landed on their feet and will continue to be one of the top leagues in college basketball. America 12 sucks. It is what it is.

God but I hate to agree with you, but on this, I do. The C7, plus Butler, Dayton, Xavier and later Creighton and SLU is a fantastic basketball conference. The reason? The same reason the Big East was great, depth. The Big East rep was never about UConn, Gtown or Cuse winning a title...it was about a league that was much deeper than any other. A league with few easy wins. The ACC was often stronger at the top, but never as deep. BE teams played well in the tournament (except Pitt and ND) because getting through the BE was a war. You can mock PC all you want, but PC games were never easy. Nor St. Johns.

 

[upstater]

Big 12 tournament game looked like a funeral. The stands for any ACC game not involving Duke or UNC are going to be pretty empty. Even the second night of the BET, with scrub schools playing, there is more juice than you will see in any Big 12 tournament game not involving Kansas.

ESPN still has the Pac 12 final, which is broadcast at a very mid-majorish 11 pm EDT. How did they convince the Big West to move their final? ESPN is basically saying that half the content of a league they just paid a fortune for is worthless.

Fox got the prize of college basketball for a song when it signed the Big East. ESPN really screwed the pooch on this one, and say what you will about football driving the bus, ESPN depends on CBB for a lot of programming between late November and mid-March. How many ACC games can they broadcast next year? No one cares about SEC basketball outside of Kentucky, Florida, Vanderbilt, Tennessee and Missouri. Mid season rivalry games draw 5k at a lot of SEC schools.

On the flip side, I suspect that with all the content ESPN has lost, the top America 12 matchups will get prime time broadcasts, because ESPN has almost nothing else to show.

This is all short-term thinking.

You have to wait to see the final product.

If a few southern schools left the ACC and UConn joined, then Fox's purchase of the BE would be all hollowed out. The ACC tourney would move to NY, and people would say the northeast is locked up for basketball by the ACC.

Georgetown would be in mourning.

 

[mcs333]

The ACC will never move to NY. Almost 90% of ACC respondents in a poll taken earlier this year were against even playing one year in NY. Mst would like to see Greensboro as the perm. home.

 

[upstater]

The ACC will never move to NY. Almost 90% of ACC respondents in a poll taken earlier this year were against even playing one year in NY. Mst would like to see Greensboro as the perm. home.

Did you read what I wrote? If UNC, UVa, FSU and Clemson move out, and UConn and Cincy are added, that becomes the ex-BE plus Wake Forest and a few other teams. They'll hold their tourney in MSG each and every year.

 

[sammydabiz]

God but I hate to agree with you, but on this, I do. The C7, plus Butler, Dayton, Xavier and later Creighton and SLU is a fantastic basketball conference. The reason? The same reason the Big East was great, depth. The Big East rep was never about UConn, Gtown or Cuse winning a title...it was about a league that was much deeper than any other. A league with few easy wins. The ACC was often stronger at the top, but never as deep. BE teams played well in the tournament (except Pitt and ND) because getting through the BE was a war. You can mock PC all you want, but PC games were never easy. Nor St. Johns.

The C7 landed on their feet and will continue to be one of the top leagues in college basketball. America 12 sucks. It is what it is.

1. I never tried to compare the American12 to the new big east, the a-12 or Metro whatever name they decide is crap, that won't change.
2. Since when did Butler, Xavier, Creighton etc become bball powers?!?! Please, they have lil to no pull in the recruiting scene and just because they pulled together a couple wins in the tourney they're nationally respected programs? If that were the case George Mason would be a bball power, they made the final four right? A respectable program needs longevity like Gonzaga, I have no qualms with that argument. So put down the lube, because these mid majors have not earned the right yet to garner national acceptance as modern day powers. Valpo was pretty special back in the day, maybe we should crown them.
3. Blasphemy!, for the past 20 years the Big East would be NOTHING w/o UConn, Cuse, Pitt, Gtown, and WestVa. You honestly think Prov, Sju, Seton Hall, DePaul garner any respect outside the northeast? Marq is a good up and coming program, I'll give them that, but has yet to make any ripples in the tourney to make people take notice. Nova is dying a slow death the past couple years. The one "power" Gtown is the lone man standing, and this power hasn't seen a NatChamp game since Nancy Reagan was pushing "Just Say No"

 

[nelsonmuntz]

To be clear, the magic of MSG, especially the last 7 years, will NEVER be duplicated. There is no way to replicate 16 teams descending on Manhattan, many of whom have large traveling fan bases or big alumni bases in NYC. Every year was electric. Including the years UConn was not very good, I can't think of a single year that the BET was not great.

Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, WVU, Cincinnati, Notre Dame, plus the host St. Johns all on ONE COURT!!! And the teams all brought their A game for the tournament. 7 of the 11 games in the 2006 BET were decided by 5 or fewer points. There is no way to ever match what happened on MSG in the NBE. They will be talking about this dead league 20 years from now.

Putting the ACC Tournament in MSG, even with UConn, would not come close to matching the BET. Syracuse and UConn can not carry MSG by themselves. The C7 have a slightly better chance, although I do not disagree with those that say that adding a bunch of midwestern schools is not going to sell many more tickets to the C7 BET. Xavier travels pretty well, and I suspect that Creighton will since they draw so well in Omaha already for mediocre MVC opponents, but Dayton, St. Louis and Butler will probably not bring a lot of fans. The C7 BET will be good, not great. More interesting than any other conference tournament, but nowhere near the last 7 years.

 

[gioff23]

If you think what is happening in college sports has one iota to do w/CBB, you're delusional. IT DOES NOT MATTER. March madness is what drives CBB, and schools can come from anywhere and compete. CFB is a cartel and it is driving the bus. you might not like the destination, but if you think anyone is asking, "what about BB?" you really are nuts. It does not matter. And, no, they don't care.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

1. I never tried to compare the American12 to the new big east, the a-12 or Metro whatever name they decide is crap, that won't change.
2. Since when did Butler, Xavier, Creighton etc become bball powers?!?! Please, they have lil to no pull in the recruiting scene and just because they pulled together a couple wins in the tourney they're nationally respected programs? If that were the case George Mason would be a bball power, they made the final four right? A respectable program needs longevity like Gonzaga, I have no qualms with that argument. So put down the lube, because these mid majors have not earned the right yet to garner national acceptance as modern day powers. Valpo was pretty special back in the day, maybe we should crown them.
3. Blasphemy!, for the past 20 years the Big East would be NOTHING w/o UConn, Cuse, Pitt, Gtown, and WestVa. You honestly think Prov, Sju, Seton Hall, DePaul garner any respect outside the northeast? Marq is a good up and coming program, I'll give them that, but has yet to make any ripples in the tourney to make people take notice. Nova is dying a slow death the past couple years. The one "power" Gtown is the lone man standing, and this power hasn't seen a NatChamp game since Nancy Reagan was pushing "Just Say No"

Creighton, Xavier and Butler have been good for a long time. They draw well and they do recruit nationally. These kind of posts really make us look like jealous ex's.

 

[tzznandrew]

To be clear, the magic of MSG, especially the last 7 years, will NEVER be duplicated. There is no way to replicate 16 teams descending on Manhattan, many of whom have large traveling fan bases or big alumni bases in NYC. Every year was electric. Including the years UConn was not very good, I can't think of a single year that the BET was not great.

Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, WVU, Cincinnati, Notre Dame, plus the host St. Johns all on ONE COURT!!! And the teams all brought their A game for the tournament. 7 of the 11 games in the 2006 BET were decided by 5 or fewer points. There is no way to ever match what happened on MSG in the NBE. They will be talking about this dead league 20 years from now.

Putting the ACC Tournament in MSG, even with UConn, would not come close to matching the BET. Syracuse and UConn can not carry MSG by themselves. The C7 have a slightly better chance, although I do not disagree with those that say that adding a bunch of midwestern schools is not going to sell many more tickets to the C7 BET. Xavier travels pretty well, and I suspect that Creighton will since they draw so well in Omaha already for mediocre MVC opponents, but Dayton, St. Louis and Butler will probably not bring a lot of fans. The C7 BET will be good, not great. More interesting than any other conference tournament, but nowhere near the last 7 years.

In this scenario, it would be Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, and Duke (with Louisville--I know they've repped themselves alright). Pitt always brings large contingents, and Duke does as well.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If you think what is happening in college sports has one iota to do w/CBB, you're delusional. IT DOES NOT MATTER. March madness is what drives CBB, and schools can come from anywhere and compete. CFB is a cartel and it is driving the bus. you might not like the destination, but if you think anyone is asking, "what about BB?" you really are nuts. It does not matter. And, no, they don't care.

It absolutely matters. College football generates about twice the TV advertising revenue during the regular season that college basketball generates. If you think that roughly $1.0 billion in advertising revenue "doesn't matter", then give some of your hundreds of millions to me. In the postseason, college basketball beats college football by roughly the same 2:1 ratio.

Realignment has played out like a rotisserie league, but what the networks are undervaluing is that fans are not just interested in watching their team, they are interested in watching the opponent. Great movies have great villains. Likewise, fans want to cheer against as much as they want to cheer for. I have shown the analysis before where in the 8 years that BCU has been in the ACC, it has drawn lower average attendance for its conference opponents than it did in 2004 (it's last year in the Big East) 7 times. BCU fans were more interested in a home slate of UConn, Rutgers and Syracuse, when Rutgers and UConn were still emerging programs, than they have been for all but one conference home slate since.

Syracuse fans are going to gradually tune out to a schedule of Clemson, Wake, GTech, and pretty much everyone but BCU and Pitt. The other games just aren't going to matter as much. I will guarantee that WVU's attendance in 3 years will be down from its 2011 attendance. I am not saying the schools made a mistake in leaving, because they both got paid to have a few more empty seats. But the sport as a whole suffers.

 

[Adios]

 

[Husky25]

This board really sounds like a bunch of jealous ex's when it tries to bash the C7. It's like saying that while your last girlfriend is now with a guy that is better looking, richer and better in bed than you are, she should be sorry about it because you are better at video games than he is. It is a ridiculous argument.

The C7 landed on their feet and will continue to be one of the top leagues in college basketball. America 12 sucks. It is what it is.

Pining away for inclusion in the C7 makes YOU look like the jealous ex. But of what? There is nary a redeeming quality to the C7 (or New Big East). It is not an east coast league anymore and the only draw is Georgetown. You are jealous of an overweight, stupid, ignorant hose-beast. But hey, she's got big knockers (the name and tourney venue), but only by virtue of being overweight.

You're like the David Letterman character in The Late Shift. You got the Tonight Show, but it's not Johnny's Tonight Show. It's Jay Leno's. It's used goods.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Pining away for inclusion in the C7 makes YOU look like the jealous ex. But of what? There is nary a redeeming quality to the C7 (or New Big East). It is not an east coast league anymore and the only draw is Georgetown. You are jealous of an overweight, stupid, ignorant hose-beast. But hey, she's got big knockers (the name and tourney venue), but only by virtue of being overweight.

You're like the David Letterman character in The Late Shift. You got the Tonight Show, but it's not Johnny's Tonight Show. It's Jay Leno's. It's used goods.

You claim I am a jealous ex by making more jealous ex statements. Got it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Creighton, Xavier and Butler have been good for a long time. They draw well and they do recruit nationally. These kind of posts really make us look like jealous ex's.

For what it is worth, Dayton has higher average attendance than Xavier and is much higher than Cinci. Not as successful on the court, although certainly solid.