How to score against a zone

[Teacherdeb]

As I was enjoying last night's game, I did note that the team seemed to struggle, and even looked a bit confused by the zone DePaul played. The half-court offense stalled a bit. Of course it takes time and practice to play against a zone, and develop a solid half court offense, so I'm being really picky. But I see lots of ZONE in our future.

 

[JordyG]

Also interestingly after Kia's foul shots at 3:27 in the 3rd they went to the 2/3 exclusively, effectively calling off the dogs.

 

[victor64]

The Huskies had 20 turnovers mostly in the half court offense, many when trying to feed the post. I thought most of the feeds were decent. The problem is that the post players were not aggressive enough attacking the pass. Unfortunately, this is especially true with Butler who only seems to catch perfect feeds. As fit as she is, she is still doesn't seem to have the strength to out maneuver her opponent. She is getting herself open but not aggressively enough taking advantage of her opportunities.

They had no trouble reversing it around the perimeter but reversing through the post-- not so much. Teams are going to attack Butler and Naphessa with doubles. They have to be able to kick it out to the spot ups on the other side.

Gabby is going to create a lot of problems at the high post especially if she can consistently hit that 15 footer. When she penetrates from the post and hits Collier in the short corner that is going to be very difficult to stop.

The short of it is that the "problems" against the zone are fixable. I agree with the OP, the Huskies are going to see a bunch of zone.

 

[huskeynut]

One of the "soft spots" of a zone is the flash to the post at the foul line. This is were you need to attack. From here there are three options:
1. Take the shot
2. Play high-low and pass to a cutting player on the baseline
3. Kick it out to the perimeter.

These options are dependent on how the zone reacts and how quickly. There is also the small percentage option of a drive down the lane to the rim.

Gabby, Pheesa, Lou and Kia can all flash to the post and hit the shot or pass to the cutter. IMO, Lou would be the best option because of her height and shooting ability.

 

[UcMiami]

As I was enjoying last night's game, I did note that the team seemed to struggle, and even looked a bit confused by the zone DePaul played. The half-court offense stalled a bit. Of course it takes time and practice to play against a zone, and develop a solid half court offense, so I'm being really picky. But I see lots of ZONE in our future.

Uconn usually plays really well against zone using the short corner and free throw areas to aggressively attack. Last night DePaul responded by being really aggressive in collapsing their zone - when the ball got anywhere within 15' of the basket four or often five players were all within that area. It worked to really clog the middle and led to a number of the TOs especially from Gabby, but it also left the perimeter wide open. There is a reason Uconn shot and made so many threes.

Uconn played a much more straight up zone keeping pressure out to the arc even when the ball moved inside, depending on their defenders to defend one on one in the zone. I think Doug didn't trust the center of the zone to be able to defend either Collier or Williams - in fact I think the second TO he called in rapid succession came right after they didn't collapse quickly enough and Collier made an easy one on one lay-up - if that wasn't the moment, then it was a few moments later where he was shouting and gesticulating wildly at his defenders.

 

[JordyG]

One of the "soft spots" of a zone is the flash to the post at the foul line. This is were you need to attack. From here there are three options:
1. Take the shot
2. Play high-low and pass to a cutting player on the baseline
3. Kick it out to the perimeter.

These options are dependent on how the zone reacts and how quickly. There is also the small percentage option of a drive down the lane to the rim.

Gabby, Pheesa, Lou and Kia can all flash to the post and hit the shot or pass to the cutter. IMO, Lou would be the best option because of her height and shooting ability.

Two more options are to flood a part of the zone and quick ball movement around the perimeter. When UConn plays the high low they borrow some from the skinny post in the triangle. All very effective.

 

[bags27]

Doesn't the attacking strategy sort of depend on what type of zone you're facing: 1-3-1, 1-2-2, 2-2-1-, or 2-1-2 (or even a box and 1/triangle and 2)?

 

[UcMiami]

Doesn't the attacking strategy sort of depend on what type of zone you're facing: 1-3-1, 1-2-2, 2-2-1-, or 2-1-2 (or even a box and 1/triangle and 2)?

Interestingly, not a lot. the exact spots on the floor may change by a few feet but the concepts of that 15' area being the key spots at the edges of two zones remain the same - in a 1-3-1 it isn't the center of the free throw line, but the corners. but the short corner remains a really tough spot in almost any zone. And it isn't the shot from those spots, but that the ball arriving there makes the zone commit a defender away from where the recipient of a pass will attack, or a space on the arc that will be wide open. When you get to box and one/triangle and two and other 'junk' defenses - the defense is really saying we aren't threatened by anyone else but that player or those two - at that point you just hope the other players are good enough and at Uconn they usually are and everyone is usually a good passer.

 

[Monte]

........and, a good fast breaking team will defeat a zone; run and score before the opposition can set the zone up!

 

[JordyG]

Interestingly, not a lot. the exact spots on the floor may change by a few feet but the concepts of that 15' area being the key spots at the edges of two zones remain the same - in a 1-3-1 it isn't the center of the free throw line, but the corners. but the short corner remains a really tough spot in almost any zone. And it isn't the shot from those spots, but that the ball arriving there makes the zone commit a defender away from where the recipient of a pass will attack, or a space on the arc that will be wide open. When you get to box and one/triangle and two and other 'junk' defenses - the defense is really saying we aren't threatened by anyone else but that player or those two - at that point you just hope the other players are good enough and at Uconn they usually are and everyone is usually a good passer.

100% correct. Now some of the techniques to beat a specific zone are more effective than others depending on your personnel. But absolutely, beating a zone is all about execution and patience, and the ways to beat a zone are well known. Except of course by Holly and her crew who seem only to know how to pass it around the perimeter. Geno likes to use the box and one, and most zones for that matter, as a change up. Give the defense a different look, something to think about. Or as last night, using the opportunity to work on something with which the team seems to have some issues.

 

[hoophuskee]

UCONN was doing what they always do at this time of the year- Geno was using different lineups and ofc Danger was rusty. Along with the situation that the game was over after the 1st qtr, so this game the coach had a chance to play with his lineups. See how they react.
Just take a look at the 2nd qtr during stretches. He had Chong and Lou in the backcourt. Well- ofc a zone is going to be more effective against that lineup. Then after it was apparent that Lou would be firing up most of the shtos and they weren't going to get much dribble penetration, he
brings in Nurse and Danger. Now he has Chong, Danger, Nurse and Lou at the 1-4 positions.
*********Apparently they didn't practice that lineup much because anyone that has a chance to watch what happens the 1st few plays after that - they would see Chong wound up at the High Post.
IMO this is Geno being a great coach and just letting his players paly and putting them in different positions then he'll scream at them for example with having Chong wining up in the high post. This type of mistake imo Geno would expect his team to have enough knowledge / awareness that that should never happen. These are teaching moments.
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Don't expect the real good teams to play zone especially at the end of the year once Danger finds her groove. They may try a gimmick like a triangle-and-two. But a zone way way way too much risk for the real god teams that feel they can guard Collier and Gabby. Anyhow, the team that played us the toughest this year and guess what their defense was? It was man-to-man.

 

[JordyG]

UCONN was doing what they always do at this time of the year- Geno was using different lineups and ofc Danger was rusty. Along with the situation that the game was over after the 1st qtr, so this game the coach had a chance to play with his lineups. See how they react.
Just take a look at the 2nd qtr during stretches. He had Chong and Lou in the backcourt. Well- ofc a zone is going to be more effective against that lineup. Then after it was apparent that Lou would be firing up most of the shtos and they weren't going to get much dribble penetration, he
brings in Nurse and Danger. Now he has Chong, Danger, Nurse and Lou at the 1-4 positions.
*********Apparently they didn't practice that lineup much because anyone that has a chance to watch what happens the 1st few plays after that - they would see Chong wound up at the High Post.
IMO this is Geno being a great coach and just letting his players paly and putting them in different positions then he'll scream at them for example with having Chong wining up in the high post. This type of mistake imo Geno would expect his team to have enough knowledge / awareness that that should never happen. These are teaching moments.
--------
Don't expect the real good teams to play zone especially at the end of the year once Danger finds her groove. They may try a gimmick like a triangle-and-two. But a zone way way way too much risk for the real god teams that feel they can guard Collier and Gabby. Anyhow, the team that played us the toughest this year and guess what their defense was? It was man-to-man.

Baylor played UConn M2M as well.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Shh, don't send these suggestions to Holly Warlick.

 

[wallman]

Zone does not work against a good passing team that can shoot the 3 period. Problem for most teams they don't have good passers The ball moves quicker than the D when it is passed over being dribbled.

Your zone is a little different than most teams play as you have height and length at the top with KLS, hard to see over that and forces teams to pass to the wing, but then you have more length and players who can move and cover as they do in a switching man. Close tries to copy your zone, it has worked more with teams that struggle to pass and we don't have the players who move as well as you but on occasion it causes some problems.

 

[UcMiami]

Shh, don't send these suggestions to Holly Warlick.

That is the thing that amazes me, though. None of us posting here are experts, just observers. And nothing we post isn't readily known by almost every coach in the business at every level, and available in countless books and videos and clinics. The staff at TN has had to be exposed to all of this since they first participated in organized basketball, and yet they seem completely incapable of teaching it to their players, or demanding it from their players. And the players themselves have enough talent that they should be able to execute the basic principles if they are being taught.

Mind boggling!

 

[JordyG]

By the by when UConn doesn't play Butler they play an interesting offensive set against the zone which I've seen him use constantly over the years. I am of course not a coach, just a fan, so I really don't know what this set is called. Geno has a guard placed about 8' from the arc and a forward at the foul line/block. Two wings are set laterally 3' from the arc and about 2' from the foul line if the line is extended to the sidelines. A forward is placed at the baseline and moves a foot beyond the hash lines, side to side depending on which side the ball swings to. So the top set is a rough T and the bottom forward moves as a pendulum. Moving the ball side to side displaces the players in the zone were the player on the baseline can receive a pass, usually a bounce pass. That player then has the option to throw it inside to the player at the foul line, if the player moves to the strong side hash, a skip pass to a wing for an open shot, or reset to the player above the key or the wing. Clearly patience and ball movement is the key, but when executed well it always leads to an open shot. Anyone know the name of this set?

 

[UcMiami]

By the by when UConn doesn't play Butler they play an interesting offensive set against the zone which I've seen him use constantly over the years. I am of course not a coach, just a fan, so I really don't know what this set is called. Geno has a guard placed about 8' from the arc and a forward at the foul line/block. Two wings are set laterally 3' from the arc and about 2' from the foul line if the line is extended to the sidelines. A forward is placed at the baseline and moves a foot beyond the hash lines, side to side depending on which side the ball swings to. So the top set is a rough T and the bottom forward moves as a pendulum. Moving the ball side to side displaces the players in the zone were the player on the baseline can receive a pass, usually a bounce pass. That player then has the option to throw it inside to the player at the foul line, if the player moves to the strong side hash, a skip pass to a wing for an open shot, or reset to the player above the key or the wing. Clearly patience and ball movement is the key, but when executed well it always leads to an open shot. Anyone know the name of this set?

Nope - but you describe it very well and it is pretty standard - When the ball moves to the center position, that person reads who comes to guard her - if it is a baseline player then two passes open up - to the 'pendulum forward cutting to the basket, or to one of the wings cutting to the basket. if it is one of the perimeter defenders out top, then one of the wings will be open at the arc.

What DePaul was doing most of the time with either the pass to the pendulum player (short corner) or the central player was pretty much every defender dove toward the basket - it created a lot of clog in the paint and when Uconn tried to make the interior pass it was usually a turnover. When they passed back to the arc it resulted in wide open threes which Uconn was hitting.

 

[JoePgh]

Why is it that teams with good defensive reputations seem to lose that "pendulum" player patrolling the baseline with such regularity? In the Sweet 16 game against Mississippi State last year, the Bulldogs (supposedly a very good defensive team) constantly were surprised by passes into Morgan Tuck, who was behind all of their defenders under the basket. (They were playing man-to-man, which makes it even more surprising that she got lost.) And nearly every game this year, I see Gabby or Napheesa (or sometimes even Natalie -- how can anyone lose her?) take a pass for a layup after the baseline defender has gone to help (presumably) on wherever the ball was.

It's as if they think they are playing soccer, and that an offside flag will go up if a pass is made to a player who is behind the last defensive line.

 

[JordyG]

Why is it that teams with good defensive reputations seem to lose that "pendulum" player patrolling the baseline with such regularity? In the Sweet 16 game against Mississippi State last year, the Bulldogs (supposedly a very good defensive team) constantly were surprised by passes into Morgan Tuck, who was behind all of their defenders under the basket. (They were playing man-to-man, which makes it even more surprising that she got lost.) And nearly every game this year, I see Gabby or Napheesa (or sometimes even Natalie -- how can anyone lose her?) take a pass for a layup after the baseline defender has gone to help (presumably) on wherever the ball was.

It's as if they think they are playing soccer, and that an offside flag will go up if a pass is made to a player who is behind the last defensive line.

One of the issues is once UConn gets the entry pass to the pendulum player, players in the zone automatically want to double the ball. It's a natural reaction because the player with the ball lends themselves so easily to the double in that position. This is and was deadly against Geno's teams because UConn usually has 4 scoring options, especially from the arc. Teams were reluctant to double the ball. That left the post player one on one on the block. As Geno says, in that position, I like our chances. In M2M again, 4 other options makes doubling the ball too risky, and players become frantic and willing to over play and do too much.

 

[UcMiami]

Why is it that teams with good defensive reputations seem to lose that "pendulum" player patrolling the baseline with such regularity? In the Sweet 16 game against Mississippi State last year, the Bulldogs (supposedly a very good defensive team) constantly were surprised by passes into Morgan Tuck, who was behind all of their defenders under the basket. (They were playing man-to-man, which makes it even more surprising that she got lost.) And nearly every game this year, I see Gabby or Napheesa (or sometimes even Natalie -- how can anyone lose her?) take a pass for a layup after the baseline defender has gone to help (presumably) on wherever the ball was.

It's as if they think they are playing soccer, and that an offside flag will go up if a pass is made to a player who is behind the last defensive line.

In man to man, I think it is usually just the result of constant motion and screening and defenders getting mixed up on who has who where.
In zone it is the result of making specific zone players commit to another player in their area of responsibility, and the other zone players not rotating to cover - fast passing causes lots of stresses on a zone.

One of Uconn's great defensive strengths is their rotation to cover as the ball moves, as well as their rotation to cover in man when a help defender leaves their man. It is still a little ragged this early in the year, but even now it is light years ahead of a lot of teams. How often have we seen a guard who has left their man out top pick off a pass to a player heading to the basket after their defender has gone to help on someone who drove. Moriah seemed to get about one a game, and Kia, Chong, and Dangerfield are trying to duplicate it.

When you watch Geno coaching the details of defense - the shading of defense stance to force players one way or another into help, the rotation of defense off the ball, the minutia of being a good defensive team, it is really fascinating. And then watching many other teams playing who just don't have a clue. CViv games used to drive me nuts, but she was a great teacher of defense and her good teams played really smart tough defense. Not sure some other coaches spend ten minutes teaching defense in practice.