How did ND get so good?

[BobbyJ]

During the height of Beard vs. Taurasi, the two UConn-Duke games during that time (Feb. 2003, won by UConn at Duke, and Jan. 2004, won by Duke in Hartford), and the postseason performances in 2003 and 2004, there were many, many posters on this forum and on The Summitt (and the ESPN board, for those who remember that forum) who repeatedly posted a variation on: "Gail can't coach. All she can do is recruit. She is an average in-game coach at best, who can't win the big one." And to be fair, she did not always deal well with the pressure (though the "can't coach" comments were harsh, even if they were hyperbolic). A few posters even predicted that once Beard graduated, Duke would fade into oblivion and Goestenkors would "exposed."

For your consideration, this is what Goestenkors did after Beard, the best player in Duke WBB history, graduated:

-- In 2004-05, Duke lost Alana Beard, Iciss Tillis, and Vicki Krapohl (all three to graduation), Brittany Hunter (transfer), and Lindsey Harding (suspension). Duke had 8 healthy players (and had to play Wanisha Smith as the starting point guard), but went 30-5 and made the Elite Eight, where it lost to LSU (with Augustus, Fowles, and Johnson) by nine points​

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-- In 2005-06, Duke went 31-4 and lost, in overtime, to Maryland in the national championship game. UNC also made the Final Four that year, so that was an amazing accmoplishment given the uber-talent in the ACC. That year, Goestenkors' team blew out Tennessee (the freshman year of Hornbuckle, etc., plus very good upperclassmen) by over 20 points, then beat UConn in the Elite Eight in overtime in Bridgeport.​

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-- In 2006-07, Duke lost Monique Currie, Jessica Foley, and Mistie Bass (all to graduation) and Chante Black (injury), but went undefeated in the regular season and finished 32-2 overall.​

Gail built Duke from nothing (literally, the bottom of the ACC). She made the Elite Eight in her sixth year and made the NCAA Championship game in her seventh season. Over the last ten years of her tenure at Duke, her teams made 7 Elite Eights, 4 Final Fours, and 2 National Championship games.

And over the last seven years (2000-01, Alana Beard's first season, through 2006-07, when Gail left), these were her numbers:

Overall record: 220-25 (89.79 percent )
ACC record: 98-8 (92.45 percent )
NCAA record: 23-7 (one NCAA runner-up, three Final Fours, five years at least making the Elite Eight, all seven years at least making the Sweet 16 )
Against Top 5 Opponents: 14-14 (50.00 percent )
Against Top 10 Opponents: 25-14 (64.10 percent ), but 11-0 (100.00 percent) against teams ranked #6-#10
Against Ranked Opponents: 60-20 (80.00 percent )
Against UConn: 2-1 (both wins in the State of Connecticut )
Against Tennessee: 4-3 (including going 3-0 against the recruiting class of Candace Parker, Alexis Hornbuckle, Alex Fuller, and Nicky Anosike)

Jody Conradt retires, and Texas courts Gail. While she was being recruited by Texas, then-AD Joe Alleva completely disrespects her and devalues all of her accomplishments, by saying this (in March 2007):

Compared to the top tier of coaches in the women's game, however, Goestenkors' salary does not stack up. Tennessee's Pat Summitt is the highest-paid coach in women's college basketball at an average of $1.125 million guaranteed over six seasons, and Geno Auriemma's contract with Connecticut guarantees him $988,000 per year.

"They've both won a lot of national championships and are part of programs that make money for their institutions. They bring in profit for their athletic departments, and that's not the case for our women's program," Alleva said. "I'm sure some of these other institutions will offer significantly large packages to encourage her to go.

LINK

This was the icing on the cake. Texas offered a lot more money. Duke later offered a package that basically matched Texas financially, but the damage was done. AD Alleva's comments stung Goestenkors on a personal level. Rather than discuss her accomplishments, he went in on why she should not be paid more and why other schools might want her.

As an aside, Alleva was later "encouraged" to look for another job and he left the next year for LSU.

Joanne P. McCallie replaced Goesteknors. In her 11 years, Coach P has made four Elite Eights, but zero Final Fours. Coach P also missed the NCAA Tournament one year and has lost three times in the second round of the NCAAT. And @EricLA , Duke gave Coach P a contract extension this summer, adding two more years to her current deal.

3 observations after researching her. On the Duke side, it's no surprise that a career desk jockey/ bean counter with no basketball knowledge doesn't understand how difficult it can be to coach and handle multiple elite talents on a team. On the Texas side, I'm surprised that after recruiting Texas well for Duke that she had such difficulty getting her share for UT. And back on the Duke side, it looks like the AD should be trying to get her back on the bench since she's only 55 y.o. given the well known limitations of McCallie.

 

[Dillon77]

The 2000 season saw them play two great games, both went to OT. ND won at RU after a dagger Ratay 3-pointer sent the game to OT, and then RU won in OT during the Big East Tourney in CT.

I would say most games were largely very competitive through 2010, though you are right there were few "classics."

Also a reminder that for a few seasons during this time period, BC was very good.

I drove down to Piscataway for that game. ND Center Ruth Riley and guard Alicia Ratay both scored 26 points and Ratay shot -- ready for this -- 7 for 7 from 3-pt. range. The only shot she missed all game was a free-throw attempt, which was a rarity. On top of this, she had 10 rebounds (Ratay was a big guard at 6'0"). And she was a freshman.

Here's the boxscore:
https://uofnotredame_ftp.sidearmsports.com/custompages/sports/w-baskbl/stats/021900aaa.html

 

[triaddukefan]

That squad definitely overachieved, but they peaked too early. They ended up losing on a pair of missed free throws by Harding in the Sweet 16, losing to Rutgers..a team they beat by 40 earlier in the year. I still think to this day, watching Harding go out way she did has to be one of the most painful moments in women's basketball history...that was brutal, especially after she had been brilliant all season.

Ive been to countless high school, college, and professional games in my life, and that was the single most painful thing Ive ever witnessed at an athletic event in person. I'll never forget the scene for the rest of my life... still remember it as it happened yesterday.... even though it happened 11 years ago.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Oh please!! you guys make the rivalry seem so close....
Overall it's 36 -12 in favour of UCONN. that's a 3-1 win ratio...
And if you are just referring to the past decade, it's a 2-1 ratio of 16-8

*** UCONN Notre Dame Rivalry ***

By comparison, UConn's record against Providence is 40-21, but we don't see their fans posting about their ability to hang with UConn.

 

[bballnut90]

Ive been to countless high school, college, and professional games in my life, and that was the single most painful thing Ive ever witnessed at an athletic event in person. I'll never forget the scene for the rest of my life... still remember it as it happened yesterday.... even though it happened 11 years ago.

Yeah it was beyond brutal....I was rooting for Rutgers to win since I liked their turnaround story, plus as a Tennessee fan I wanted Duke out (I thought they were the biggest competition for Tennessee that year)...but after the game I remember feeling just horrible about it.

 

[UConn82]

This has become a really excellent thread. Thank you all.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Oh please!! you guys make the rivalry seem so close....
Overall it's 36 -12 in favour of UCONN. that's a 3-1 win ratio...
And if you are just referring to the past decade, it's a 2-1 ratio of 16-8

*** UCONN Notre Dame Rivalry ***

Since Skylar Diggins arrived in South Bend (beginning with the 2019-10 season), the rivalry is as follows:
-- UConn: 14 wins
-- Notre Dame: 8 wins

That is a span of nine seasons.

In those nine seasons, UConn has an overall record of 331-14. Notre Dame is responsible for 8 of those 14 losses.

If you are looking at this through the lens of the past 9-10 years, then yes, it is a rivalry - and the biggest rivalry in women's basketball right now.

By comparison, UConn's record against Providence is 40-21, but we don't see their fans posting about their ability to hang with UConn.

The last time Providence won a game in the series was in March 1993. Breanna Stewart was not even born, and Diana Taurasi was ten years old.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Since Skylar Diggins arrived in South Bend (beginning with the 2019-10 season), the rivalry is as follows:
-- UConn: 14 wins
-- Notre Dame: 8 wins

That's kinda of the point, isn't it? Even isolating the most successful period ND has ever had against the Huskies, ND won 36% of those games. Let's not forget that UConn is only 11-7 against Stanford, including big losses like having our 90 game winning streak snapped. Yes, in the past decade ND has been our toughest competition, but we're not at parity yet. Perhaps another heading for this thread is "How has UConn stayed so good?"

 

[DallasBUFan]

That's kinda of the point, isn't it? Even isolating the most successful period ND has ever had against the Huskies, ND won 36% of those games. Let's not forget that UConn is only 11-7 against Stanford, including big losses like having our 90 game winning streak snapped. Yes, in the past decade ND has been our toughest competition, but we're not at parity yet. Perhaps another heading for this thread is "How has UConn stayed so good?"

I mean you don't win the Natty for two years straight and the sky is falling.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

That's kinda of the point, isn't it? Even isolating the most successful period ND has ever had against the Huskies, ND won 36% of those games. Let's not forget that UConn is only 11-7 against Stanford, including big losses like having our 90 game winning streak snapped. Yes, in the past decade ND has been our toughest competition, but we're not at parity yet. Perhaps another heading for this thread is "How has UConn stayed so good?"

"Parity" is not the same as "rivalry." I said "rivalry." You responded with "parity."

As I stated, in those nine seasons, UConn has an overall record of 331-14. Notre Dame is responsible for 8 of those 14 losses.

If you are looking at this through the lens of the past 9-10 years, then yes, it is a rivalry - and the biggest rivalry in women's basketball right now.

 

[JonathanXIV]

rivalry[/U] - and the biggest rivalry in women's basketball right now.

Rivalry perhaps. But hardly an even one.

 

[triaddukefan]

Yeah it was beyond brutal....I was rooting for Rutgers to win since I liked their turnaround story, plus as a Tennessee fan I wanted Duke out (I thought they were the biggest competition for Tennessee that year)...but after the game I remember feeling just horrible about it.

I guess the Rutgers game evened things out for me. The most memorable, exciting, thrilling sports event Ive ever attended was the 1999 Regional between Duke and Tenn. I'll never forget that for the rest of my life. 20 years ago next March.... where have the years gone

 

[bballnut90]

I guess the Rutgers game evened things out for me. The most memorable, exciting, thrilling sports event Ive ever attended was the 1999 Regional between Duke and Tenn. I'll never forget that for the rest of my life. 20 years ago next March.... where have the years gone

Holdsclaw going out in that fashion was almost as brutal as Harding's. Watching her finish her career with her worst shooting game ever was very tough to see.

 

[triaddukefan]

Holdsclaw going out in that fashion was almost as brutal as Harding's. Watching her finish her career with her worst shooting game ever was very tough to see.

Yes it was.... My seat was on the opposite side of the team's benches. Even though I strongly disliked the Lady Vols.... watching Holdsclaw walk off the court after fouling out and weeping on Summit's shoulder was difficult to watch.

 

[buddy]

ND has the officials in their pocket. Any 50-50 calls will always go their way.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Oh please!! you guys make the rivalry seem so close....
Overall it's 36 -12 in favour of UCONN. that's a 3-1 win ratio...
And if you are just referring to the past decade, it's a 2-1 ratio of 16-8

*** UCONN Notre Dame Rivalry ***

UConn has absolutely ruled the series, but from your link, it appears that the series is 8-8 over the past 16 games (although Stewie and company were very successful vs. the Irish). If Notre Dame wins in December, they would have an edge in the past 17 games. Or if UConn wins, they would have the advantage. Seems to me to be a rivalry over the past 16 games. How many games has UConn lost to teams OTHER than Notre Dame during this period? I would say being UConn's best competition is high praise. No one is saying that Notre Dame has been UConn's equal (UConn 4 NC to 1 for ND during this span).

 

[Hope]

I recall video of Geno talking about the early years, and saying that he was surprised that it was so hard to win games unless you recruited some of the best players in the country. Living in my little UConn bubble, I was surprised to hear someone like Sam speak so highly of Coach McGraw.


SRWomen’s: Sam Brunelle, top-ranked 2019 player talks Notre Dame, more.

 

[Fightin Choke]

ND has the officials in their pocket. Any 50-50 calls will always go their way.

Really? If you lose it's the refs? Why would Notre Dame have the refs in their pocket?

 

[triaddukefan]

ND has the officials in their pocket. Any 50-50 calls will always go their way.

Guess you guys need to fork over more money

 

[VAUConnFan]

Niele Ivey. Notre Dame's stars have been guards. Ms Ivey is recruiting them and coaching them. She deserves the overwhelming amount of credit for Notre Dame's recent success. She was there as a player for their earlier success, she is there as a coach/recruiter for their recent success. Her blatantly obvious effect on the recent success of Notre Dame WBB makes her the top assistant in WCBB.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

I'll tell you why SC hasn't beaten you; we haven't had enough talent in the right places to match up with you That will change beginning next year. I'm not saying we will beat you next season, but the Gamecocks will finally be able to win more than 1 or 2 player match ups.

 

[IrishTiger]

Really? If you lose it's the refs? Why would Notre Dame have the refs in their pocket?

He’s just making excuses is all.

 

[bbsamjj]

Holdsclaw going out in that fashion was almost as brutal as Harding's. Watching her finish her career with her worst shooting game ever was very tough to see.

As an RU fan that Duke Sweet 16 game is arguably the highlight of CVS's entire tenure (neither the elite 8 or final 4 game that year were that exciting). In retrospect, the job GG did with that Duke team was nothing short of incredible, given that I believe there is just one (?) Duke player left in the WNBA from that roster, while RU was starting four future WNBA players in Carson, Ajavon, Vaughn, and Prince. Harding deserved better though.

 

[Bajan Best]

UConn has absolutely ruled the series, but from your link, it appears that the series is 8-8 over the past 16 games (although Stewie and company were very successful vs. the Irish). If Notre Dame wins in December, they would have an edge in the past 17 games. Or if UConn wins, they would have the advantage. Seems to me to be a rivalry over the past 16 games. How many games has UConn lost to teams OTHER than Notre Dame during this period? I would say being UConn's best competition is high praise. No one is saying that Notre Dame has been UConn's equal (UConn 4 NC to 1 for ND during this span).

To me It's laughable that anyone would only want to reference the last 16 games, I'm sorry, why not then reference the last 28 games, (20-8) or even worst the last 8? (7-1) That is like Mississippi State saying in the Last two years they have dominated UCONN. (1-0)

Notre Dame is a reputable and successful program, which I totally enjoy playing against. But the facts remain, UCONN has Dominated the series, anything else is a fabrication of the truth.

 

[Fightin Choke]

To me It's laughable that anyone would only want to reference the last 16 games, I'm sorry, why not then reference the last 28 games, (20-8) or even worst the last 8? (7-1) That is like Mississippi State saying in the Last two years they have dominated UCONN. (1-0)

Notre Dame is a reputable and successful program, which I totally enjoy playing against. But the facts remain, UCONN has Dominated the series, anything else is a fabrication of the truth.

Fabrication? Did you skip my first line? How more emphatic can I be than "UConn has absolutely ruled the series"? But when people say it's a rivalry, they are talking about recently. And over the past 16 most recent games, UConn is 8-8 against ND. That is not a fabrication. I also wrote (in that same post "No one is saying that Notre Dame has been UConn's equal (UConn 4 NC to 1 for ND during this span). " How many caveats do you need? With my first statement and my last, I thought I gave UConn enough credit. But wait, I also wrote "although Stewie and company were very successful vs. the Irish" I'm sure what you find so offensive about my post. You seem to be trying to twist my post to find something to disagree with. I never said the overall series has been equal. In fact I stated the exact opposite.