Heading to Italy this Spring

[HuskyHawk]

Happy to take any suggestions, my wife is already in full planning mode. Planning trips is her favorite thing, even above taking them I suspect. We won't be in the south, other than a trip to Naples & Mt. Vesuvius. Planning to see a little of several places, not stay in one place too long. So probably a couple days in Rome, Florence/somewhere in Tuscany, and somewhere north of Milan near lake Como. Doubt we can work in the Adriatic coast on this trip. I realize some want the immersive experience of living like a local, but that's not our thing, except maybe in Ireland.

Food will not be a primary driver of decisions. I'll probably try pizza in Naples, but our tastes are pretty simple. Places of historic interest or great natural beauty will probably top the list. How critical is knowing some Italian? What off the radar spots are worth a visit?

 

[dvegas]

Just DM FfldCntyFan, no need to waste this site's bandwidth

 

[huskymedic]

From June Looking for some Italy advice

 

[HuskyHawk]

From June Looking for some Italy advice

Thanks. I have summarized the best of that thread in one file I emailed to my wife and daughter. I'd welcome more insight from @FfldCntyFan, especially about places outside of Rome. Initial thoughts:

1. The pickpocket comments are almost enough that I'd expect to hear a suggestion from my family that we go to Prague and then Bavaria. Or Vienna, Bratislava and Budapest. Even in Paris a few years ago we had no concern for pickpockets.
2. We normally drive. I don't want to drive in Rome. How feasible is it to drive outside of Rome?
3. Definitely will schedule ahead for tours, and pay up where possible. Definitely will schedule ahead for dinners as much as possible.
4. How touristy is March/April? Spring break time here.
5. Trastevere sounds fun. Seems a convenient base spot as well. Is it more or less crazy/crowded?
6. Transport? Cabs? Walking? How do people get around?
7. Still a long sleeve dress code in churches and the Vatican?
8. We like small towns with interesting history when in Ireland, Scotland, France etc. Any good options?
9. Is there an Italian equivalent of a pub? None of us are interested in coffee.

 

[SubbaBub]

1. Highly recommend Clothing Arts, anti-pickpocket clothing. Don't be dumb and you'll be fine.

5. Didn't like Trastevere, it seemed generally unfriendly to tourists. YMMV.

6. Our hotel front desk (Martis Palace Hotel) was able to call cabs. Not difficult to find elsewhere. Walked most places in Old City. Usually cab in one direction and walk the other. Highly recommend hotel. Prime location.

7. Yes. Covered knees and shoulders is the general rule.

9. It's called a trattoria and they serve wine. Though there are British style pubs and every other kind of establishment. Rome has everything. Why you'd avoid the traditional places is another question.

 

[HuskyHawk]

1. Highly recommend Clothing Arts, anti-pickpocket clothing. Don't be dumb and you'll be fine.

5. Didn't like Trastevere, it seemed generally unfriendly to tourists. YMMV.

6. Our hotel front desk (Martis Palace Hotel) was able to call cabs. Not difficult to find elsewhere. Walked most places in Old City. Usually cab in one direction and walk the other. Highly recommend hotel. Prime location.

7. Yes. Covered knees and shoulders is the general rule.

9. It's called a trattoria and they serve wine. Though there are British style pubs and every other kind of establishment. Rome has everything. Why you'd avoid the traditional places is another question.

The last was less about the city, than about small towns. We've had nice experiences at Pubs in UK & Ireland, talking to locals, listening to music and having a beer. Wondered if there was an Italian cultural equivalent. Not looking to avoid the traditional, as long as it isn't a coffee shop.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Thanks. I have summarized the best of that thread in one file I emailed to my wife and daughter. I'd welcome more insight from @FfldCntyFan, especially about places outside of Rome. Initial thoughts:

1. The pickpocket comments are almost enough that I'd expect to hear a suggestion from my family that we go to Prague and then Bavaria. Or Vienna, Bratislava and Budapest. Even in Paris a few years ago we had no concern for pickpockets.

I’ve been told that Paris is every bit as bad. I only had an issue once but it was due to a rookie mistake (which I am still angry with myself about as I was far from a rookie when it happened). If you are aware of your surroundings and patient enough (I made the mistake of stepping onto a crowded metro car) there shouldn’t be a problem. Funny that you mentioned the above locations; one thing on my bucket list is a trip where I visit Munich, Vienna and Prague.
2. We normally drive. I don't want to drive in Rome. How feasible is it to drive outside of Rome?

Nearly four decades ago I swore that I would never drive in DC again. I would drive in DC blindfolded before I would drive in Rome. If driving from town to town you would in most cases face far less traffic than in the US and with GPS, it shouldn’t be difficult to get around. You should plan ahead on a rental car if that is the route you want to go and be sure to use a reputable place.
3. Definitely will schedule ahead for tours, and pay up where possible. Definitely will schedule ahead for dinners as much as possible.

I cannot stress enough how beneficial planning ahead will be. There is a massive amount to see and it is not realistic to be able to see everything. If you decide in advance how to schedule your time you will be able to take in quite a bit and enjoy all of it. I do know someone who brags about how great he is at giving tours but all he does is rush through a number of things, barely giving anyone a chance to enjoy any of it. I doubt anyone wants to take a vacation like this for something that would be a tourist equivalent of speed dating.
4. How touristy is March/April? Spring break time here.

If you avoid the week after Easter you should have no problems. Most of Europe closes down that week and many Europeans use that time to travel. As long as you avoid vacation time for Europeans there shouldn’t an inordinate amount of tourists.
5. Trastevere sounds fun. Seems a convenient base spot as well. Is it more or less crazy/crowded?

Trastevere is not touristy at all (it has a bit of a Bohemian feel). There are quite a few younger people there (from college age through to early 30’s) but it does have a vibe of excitement.
6. Transport? Cabs? Walking? How do people get around?

Within Rome the Metro can cover most of your needs. If you plan on being out after midnight you’ll need a cab. There are apps that can help with this. In Florence, Siena or Venice you should be able to walk. If you are planning on spending time in larger cities (Bologna, Milan, Turin) you will need to use cabs. Travelling from city to city is pretty easy with Trenitalia. There are constant connections throughout the day and the cost is reasonable (especially when compared to Amtrak).
7. Still a long sleeve dress code in churches and the Vatican?

I don’t believe so. The last time I was at the Vatican my son’s girlfriend was wearing a long dress that left her arms completely bare. I’ve been there a few times with jeans and a short sleeve polo shirt.
8. We like small towns with interesting history when in Ireland, Scotland, France etc. Any good options?

This is a bit outside of my area of expertise but below are some links that could be helpful, depending on where you will spend the bulk of your time. If you are planning on driving south from Rome I highly recommend the Amalfi Coast & Positano.



The Prettiest Small Towns in Tuscany

31 Prettiest Small Towns in Veneto, Italy (With Map and Tips)

These Astounding Places Near Naples Will Make You Extend Your Holiday In Italy

12 Towns Not to Miss in Puglia, Italy

https://www.hotels.com/go/italy/it-fairy-tale-villages-calabria

Best Small Towns in Northern Italy - Walks of Italy


9. Is there an Italian equivalent of a pub? None of us are interested in coffee.

There are café’s everywhere and most offer wine, beer and cocktails. If in Rome I highly recommend one place: Antica Peroni. It is a brewery from the mid-late 1800’s that was converted to a restaurant. I stumbled upon it about eight years ago and made sure to stop by every subsequent trip. This place has the feel of a brew pub but also the feel of a very old, established restaurant (prices are more than reasonable as well).

 

[storrsroars]

Knowing you have simple food tastes, I will suggest at least two or three things anyway:
1. Have a gelato in Rome
2. In Florence, order a bistecca florentina somewhere decent. You can google where. Caveat is you can't like well done.
3. In the north, try a risotto. It's what they do best, moreso than pasta.

Been to several areas of Italy on multiple trips, never had an issue with pickpockets. We train it everywhere in Europe other than UK, it's relaxing. They're on time, comfortable, and more efficient than driving.

In Rome, plenty of cafes around Piazza Navona, which is a great area to end the night. Lots of interesting stuff happening there vis a vis street performers and people watching. Abbey Theater Pub is a solid Irish pub a block or two away. In Florence there are also a handful of Irish pubs circling the city center you can google.

I have no tips on visiting the Vatican as I only went in to appease my wife. As a lapsed Catholic the whole deal is offensive to me ;-). You can get a tour guide for Colosseum right outside. There are English-speaking guides. You'll want one in there as you will have questions. Also they have permission to cut the line you'll be waiting in otherwise. Don't eat right around the Colosseum - more expensive and poor quality. Would probably be tough to fit in, but the catacombs south of Rome are interesting. As you're only in Rome for couple of nights, I don't know why you'd want to spend time in Testavere if you're not interested in food.

Trying to think of what we really enjoyed in Florence, but it was almost all food-related, other than the bridge and the Duomo. We were well museumed out by then. Doesn't sound like you're going to Bologna or Verona, so won't recommend anything there.

Anyway, enjoy the trip. Don't be an ugly American. Go with the flow.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Knowing you have simple food tastes, I will suggest at least two or three things anyway:
1. Have a gelato in Rome
2. In Florence, order a bistecca florentina somewhere decent. You can google where. Caveat is you can't like well done.
3. In the north, try a risotto. It's what they do best, moreso than pasta.

Been to several areas of Italy on multiple trips, never had an issue with pickpockets. We train it everywhere in Europe other than UK, it's relaxing. They're on time, comfortable, and more efficient than driving.

In Rome, plenty of cafes around Piazza Navona, which is a great area to end the night. Lots of interesting stuff happening there vis a vis street performers and people watching. Abbey Theater Pub is a solid Irish pub a block or two away. In Florence there are also a handful of Irish pubs circling the city center you can google.

I have no tips on visiting the Vatican as I only went in to appease my wife. As a lapsed Catholic the whole deal is offensive to me ;-). You can get a tour guide for Colosseum right outside. There are English-speaking guides. You'll want one in there as you will have questions. Also they have permission to cut the line you'll be waiting in otherwise. Don't eat right around the Colosseum - more expensive and poor quality. Would probably be tough to fit in, but the catacombs south of Rome are interesting. As you're only in Rome for couple of nights, I don't know why you'd want to spend time in Testavere if you're not interested in food.

Trying to think of what we really enjoyed in Florence, but it was almost all food-related, other than the bridge and the Duomo. We were well museumed out by then. Doesn't sound like you're going to Bologna or Verona, so won't recommend anything there.

Anyway, enjoy the trip. Don't be an ugly American. Go with the flow.

Thanks. Current plan now skips Florence and Vesuvius and adds Venice. Not sure what that changes exactly. Definitely no concern with medium rare. People talk about Gelato, I guess I should have it, but I have a hard time thinking it’s more magical than New England Ice Cream. I’m quite a fan of Risotto. My half Italian former GF made it often, taught by her dad.

I see Paris listed as a pickpocket concern too, but we had no problems there. Maybe it’s as simple as using ordinary caution and not looking like an easy mark. Daughter can’t keep phone in back pocket though.

I will try not to be an ugly American. We did well in France had some interesting encounters with locals. It really is a small world. I’ll still stand out as American though, simply because European footwear is a crime against humanity.

 

[storrsroars]

Thanks. Current plan now skips Florence and Vesuvius and adds Venice. Not sure what that changes exactly. Definitely no concern with medium rare. People talk about Gelato, I guess I should have it, but I have a hard time thinking it’s more magical than New England Ice Cream. I’m quite a fan of Risotto. My half Italian former GF made it often, taught by her dad.

The thing with gelato is that there are tons of flavors and nothing artificial. To quote from Willy Wonka, "the snozzberries taste like snozzberries." If there's a fruit you like (or 2-3 different ones as you can get combos), I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how good that fruit tastes in gelato vs ice cream.

One of my top five meals ever was a mushroom risotto in Bologna. I'm a good cook, make risotto 2-3x a year, and I can't make it nearly as good as what I had there. The creaminess and depth of flavor was amazing. And the quality of the parmigiana used.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The thing with gelato is that there are tons of flavors and nothing artificial. To quote from Willy Wonka, "the snozzberries taste like snozzberries." If there's a fruit you like (or 2-3 different ones as you can get combos), I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how good that fruit tastes in gelato vs ice cream.

One of my top five meals ever was a mushroom risotto in Bologna. I'm a good cook, make risotto 2-3x a year, and I can't make it nearly as good as what I had there. The creaminess and depth of flavor was amazing. And the quality of the parmigiana used.

I'll try the gelato if we go. I've had supposedly authentic Gelato in the U.S. Most risotto I get has what I assume is a chicken stock and parmesan base, then varied ingredients from scallops, shrimp, ham, asparagus etc. The one my ex-girlfriend first made for me used homemade tomato sauce (only Roma tomatoes) and used that as the liquid. It took hours to cook but was really good.

Latest news: daughter may still want to visit her college friend in Puerto Rico on spring break this year. If so, my wife and I tentatively think we'd pivot and go to Vienna - Bratislava - Budapest (or the same in reverse order). Seems pretty easy and it would be three new countries for us. I fear we are running short on time, but if no daughter, then we can do this whenever we want. I have several work colleagues in Bratislava.

 

[storrsroars]

I'll try the gelato if we go. I've had supposedly authentic Gelato in the U.S. Most risotto I get has what I assume is a chicken stock and parmesan base, then varied ingredients from scallops, shrimp, ham, asparagus etc. The one my ex-girlfriend first made for me used homemade tomato sauce (only Roma tomatoes) and used that as the liquid. It took hours to cook but was really good.

Latest news: daughter may still want to visit her college friend in Puerto Rico on spring break this year. If so, my wife and I tentatively think we'd pivot and go to Vienna - Bratislava - Budapest (or the same in reverse order). Seems pretty easy and it would be three new countries for us. I fear we are running short on time, but if no daughter, then we can do this whenever we want. I have several work colleagues in Bratislava.

Sounds like fun either way. I promised my wife a trip to Vienna when we first married 22 years ago, still haven't been. Only spent a day and a half in Budapest, but during that brief time my hosts took me to some rustic place outside the city where I found out that real paprikash is far more amazing that anything I've had here. I was over on the Buda (west of Danube) side near Fisherman's Bastion and enjoyed walking around - lots of statuary of Hungarian heroes in unexpected places - and it was a fine vista to take in the majesty of the Parliament Building and watch the cruise ships. But the action is on the Pest side.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Sounds like fun either way. I promised my wife a trip to Vienna when we first married 22 years ago, still haven't been. Only spent a day and a half in Budapest, but during that brief time my hosts took me to some rustic place outside the city where I found out that real paprikash is far more amazing that anything I've had here. I was over on the Buda (west of Danube) side near Fisherman's Bastion and enjoyed walking around - lots of statuary of Hungarian heroes in unexpected places - and it was a fine vista to take in the majesty of the Parliament Building and watch the cruise ships. But the action is on the Pest side.

Our trips are 75% history. We love old castles, old churches, old graveyards, ancient ruins, battlegrounds, etc. Maybe we should check on a Danube river cruise.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So Italy is out. Our Daughter is going to Puerto Rico with college friends (one of whom lives there). It's just as well. Italy was turning into a pain in the neck to plan.

Not sure what we will do now. Maybe a long weekend in New Orleans this spring and Munich and Prague for Octoberfest or something.

 

[Palatine]

After you visit the Colusseum and walk across to the forum. Walk up the hill known as Palatine. They are ruins of many palaces, in fact the word palace comes from the Palatine Hill. As you reach the other side of the Palatine, you will see a park and you can make out the outline of the Circus Maximus. That was where Rome held its chariot races in front of 150,000 people. Noting remains and the actual racetrack which would be about 11 feet under the park. You need to use your imagination a bit but it very impressive.