Geno's role in the loss

[winlots]

Been awhile since I've invoked waves of wrath on here with one of my "provocative" posts (thus described in a BY survey once many moons ago). One of the fun things about a sports board is that it gives folks a chance to say how they would have done things differently than they were done by the coach....and where he seemed to come up a little short:

1 Very, very disappointed with his personnel use. He had made the cogent point just prior to the game that the outcome of this game would not determine the national championship. Yet he seemed to martial his squad as if the NC was on the line. SEVEN players??? Here was a perfect chance to put some kids out there in a competitive non-conference game (e.g., no title at stake) and see how they would perform.
Stanford's young players learned a lot , gained a lot of confidence , and felt the trust and support of their coach.
Our guys, not so much. For the record, this point is not made because we lost.....would have been written in victory.

2. A few years ago or so, I listed on here some specific areas in which I thought Coach had some sharpening to do. A year or so ago, I revisited some of that list and took congratulatory note of the several significant improvements observed in the interim. Last night, one of the old weak spots seemed to re-appear out of nowhere....the inability to securely and reliably inbound the ball from the baseline. ( Now that I write that, it occurs to me that maybe this wasn't such a sudden re-appearance. Didn't we get a very significant bite in the butt there from ND a year or so ago which cost us a game? ) Team seemed very unsteady in that area last night.

Would certainly welcome and find interesting, observations from those seeing things differently.....or similarly....or additions and subtractions. Would not be impressed with: "The others didn't practice well" or the theme of "He's won 9 NCs and you haven't."

 

[JRRRJ]

Been awhile since I've invoked waves of wrath on here with one of my "provocative" posts (thus described in a BY survey once many moons ago). One of the fun things about a sports board is that it gives folks a chance to say how they would have done things differently than they were done by the coach....and where he seemed to come up a little short:

1 Very, very disappointed with his personnel use. He had made the cogent point just prior to the game that the outcome of this game would not determine the national championship. Yet he seemed to martial his squad as if the NC was on the line. SEVEN players??? Here was a perfect chance to put some kids out there in a competitive non-conference game (e.g., no title at stake) and see how they would perform.
Stanford's young players learned a lot , gained a lot of confidence , and felt the trust and support of their coach.
Our guys, not so much. For the record, this point is not made because we lost.....would have been written in victory.

2. A few years ago or so, I listed on here some specific areas in which I thought Coach had some sharpening to do. A year or so ago, I revisited some of that list and took congratulatory note of the several significant improvements observed in the interim. Last night, one of the old weak spots seemed to re-appear out of nowhere....the inability to securely and reliably inbound the ball from the baseline. ( Now that I write that, it occurs to me that maybe this wasn't such a sudden re-appearance. Didn't we get a very significant bite in the butt there from ND a year or so ago which cost us a game? ) Team seemed very unsteady in that area last night.

Would certainly welcome and find interesting, observations from those seeing things differently.....or similarly....or additions and subtractions. Would not be impressed with: "The others didn't practice well" or the theme of "He's won 9 NCs and you haven't."

100% agree with the short bench, and I made the same comment during the game to anyone sitting in the neighborhood who would listen. You let the kids make mistakes in less-dangerous/important situations so they can learn from them. There was nothing important riding on the outcome of this game, and the starters were mostly performing very inconsistently.

I didn't notice the in-bounds problems you mention. I was actually impressed there were few errors (turnovers), given the intensity of the Stanford defense, until the melt-downs at the end of overtime.

 

[Aluminny69]

I didn't notice the in-bounds problems you mention. I was actually impressed there were few errors (turnovers), given the intensity of the Stanford defense, until the melt-downs at the end of overtime.

You're forgetting the real face-palm moment of the game. The Refs initially called the ball out on MoJeff. They stop the game to look at the replay. They decide the ball went off a Stanford players foot, and give the ball to UConn. KML can't inbound the ball in five seconds, and promptly gives the ball back to Stanford. A real WTF moment.

 

[Bayareahusky]

yes i didn't think of the short bench...... but yes good point here...... the head scratcher for me as far as coaching last night is...... why are there no timeouts left with 35 seconds left to play? The answer is I know we needed to use them, but no way Saniya drives for 2 with a second left when we need a 3 if we had TOs left

 

[JRRRJ]

You're forgetting the real face-palm moment of the game. The Refs initially called the ball out on MoJeff. They stop the game to look at the replay. They decide the ball went off a Stanford players foot, and give the ball to UConn. KML can't inbound the ball in five seconds, and promptly gives the ball back to Stanford. A real WTF moment.

Worse yet, after all the time the refs spent looking at that replay -- which was shown on the mid-court Jumbotron -- they made the wrong call. The ball was not kicked by anyone, Moriah lost it out of bounds. But, the reason she lost it was that a Stanford player on the floor rolled into her legs and caused her to nearly fall. The Stanford fans around me were astonished at the call, too.

They missed the foul.

 

[NorCalHuskie]

The inbounds play was the fault of KML. Kiah was about 7 feet in front of KML , had her defender underneath her, and a simple lob to Kiah's outstretched hand was what Kiah was visibly asking for, for the entire 5 seconds.

About playing only 7 players... The second game of the season is not a time when more than 7 players NEED to play in a game like this. The players need time to develop before being thrown into the fire, and many players (and people) do much better with a slower progression. And it looked to me that the players who were playing need more of the experience they got in this game, and they are the ones who will benefit most from playing in a game like this... in NOVEMBER.

 

[pvdoggy]

You're forgetting the real face-palm moment of the game. The Refs initially called the ball out on MoJeff. They stop the game to look at the replay. They decide the ball went off a Stanford players foot, and give the ball to UConn. KML can't inbound the ball in five seconds, and promptly gives the ball back to Stanford. A real WTF moment.

I was really baffled by some of the key mental mistakes that KML made last night.
May be the fact that Brian Agler from the Seattle Storm was present to scout her as a possible first pick
put too much pressure on her.

 

[NorCalHuskie]

Worse yet, after all the time the refs spent looking at that replay -- which was shown on the mid-court Jumbotron -- they made the wrong call. The ball was not kicked by anyone, Moriah lost it out of bounds. But, the reason she lost it was that a Stanford player on the floor rolled into her legs and caused her to nearly fall. The Stanford fans around me were astonished at the call, too.

They missed the foul.

I saw that the ball bounced off the bottom of the Stanford player's foot. The ball left MJ's hand headed straight down to the floor, and the foot is what caused it to change direction and go out of bounds. When they were showing the replay the crowd did not react as strongly, once you could see the foot hit the ball, as they did on other controversial calls shown on the scoreboard. And there could have been a foul called on the Stanford player.

 

[Rb335]

I know this post isn't going to be popular, and I'm going to preface it by stating that I do think Geno is on of the top 2 coaches in wcbb history.

However, I do think that his late game coaching, at least in recent years, would not land him in even the top 10. I think he has built a program that is so used to winning the game in the first 15 to 30 minutes, that they struggle to close out close games. I blame the players for putting themselves in the position of a close game, but thats the nature of sports. When you play an evenly matched team, the outcome should be close. I think Geno's coaching down the stretch in close games has been, well, bad. I'm going to think of a few examples.

• UCONN-ND- Final Four of 2012- Loss in OT. There was an instance where Kelly Faris was double teamed on the sideline with no available options and no dribble. Geno had every ability to bail her out with a timeout, but didn't, leading to a ND steal and easy transition basket.
• UCONN-ND Final Four 2012- Loss in OT. Geno subs out Kiah Stokes, leading to a Novosel offensive rebound and put back to force OT. Could he have predicted they would get a look at the basket, debatable. Did he say post game that it was a mistake taking her out of the game, yes.
• UCONN-ND- 2013 BE Championship- he draws a terrible inbound lob to Stewie which is stolen, leading to what we all remember as the Achonwa winner at the buzzer. That was a hard pill to swallow, and we should have been in the position to lose in regular time.
• UCONN-ND 2013- last game of regular season- loss in 2 or 3 OT. Geno decides to pull the defense off the shooters, daring McBride, a not great 3 point shooter at the time to take a 3. She knocks it down. Could he have chosen to guard her more closely, yes. That game should have never even gone to OT. He should have played the foul game, preventing ND any opportunity of forcing OT barring missed free throws.
• Stanford-UCONN- 2014. OT Loss. Geno takes a timeout with 1:30 left. I'm sorry, but any coach should know to keep a TO available if your team needs a bailout situation in the closing minutes. At the time of the TO, the team wasn't in any grave danger. He then draws up a play for stewie which was so obvious, anybody at home could have noticed.
• Stanford UCONN 2014- OT Loss. Geno doesn't have any timeout's to bail out the 5 second call. Tara had one TO left. Geno elects, or because of the lack of TOs, to not foul on the final possession of the regular time. A simple foul at mid court in non shooting motion drains the clock and prevents Stanford from shooting a 3. It seems like a no brainer to make it harder to force an OT by stanford.

I admire Geno and all that he has built. Some of the above mentioned instances could be attributed to players. However, I tried hard to focus on only things Geno could have changed. The trend is there. I question his late game calls, and have been for the past few years. Where I do trust him: develop the players into AA and WNBA players and bring home National Championships. Nobody is as good of a coach in March as him.

 

[LAWard_]

I know this post isn't going to be popular, and I'm going to preface it by stating that I do think Geno is on of the top 2 coaches in wcbb history.

However, I do think that his late game coaching, at least in recent years, would not land him in even the top 10. I think he has built a program that is so used to winning the game in the first 15 to 30 minutes, that they struggle to close out close games. I blame the players for putting themselves in the position of a close game, but thats the nature of sports. When you play an evenly matched team, the outcome should be close. I think Geno's coaching down the stretch in close games has been, well, bad. I'm going to think of a few examples.

• UCONN-ND- Final Four of 2012- Loss in OT. There was an instance where Kelly Faris was double teamed on the sideline with no available options and no dribble. Geno had every ability to bail her out with a timeout, but didn't, leading to a ND steal and easy transition basket.
• UCONN-ND Final Four 2012- Loss in OT. Geno subs out Kiah Stokes, leading to a Novosel offensive rebound and put back to force OT. Could he have predicted they would get a look at the basket, debatable. Did he say post game that it was a mistake taking her out of the game, yes.
• UCONN-ND- 2013 BE Championship- he draws a terrible inbound lob to Stewie which is stolen, leading to what we all remember as the Achonwa winner at the buzzer. That was a hard pill to swallow, and we should have been in the position to lose in regular time.
• UCONN-ND 2013- last game of regular season- loss in 2 or 3 OT. Geno decides to pull the defense off the shooters, daring McBride, a not great 3 point shooter at the time to take a 3. She knocks it down. Could he have chosen to guard her more closely, yes. That game should have never even gone to OT. He should have played the foul game, preventing ND any opportunity of forcing OT barring missed free throws.
• Stanford-UCONN- 2014. OT Loss. Geno takes a timeout with 1:30 left. I'm sorry, but any coach should know to keep a TO available if your team needs a bailout situation in the closing minutes. At the time of the TO, the team wasn't in any grave danger. He then draws up a play for stewie which was so obvious, anybody at home could have noticed.
• Stanford UCONN 2014- OT Loss. Geno doesn't have any timeout's to bail out the 5 second call. Tara had one TO left. Geno elects, or because of the lack of TOs, to not foul on the final possession of the regular time. A simple foul at mid court in non shooting motion drains the clock and prevents Stanford from shooting a 3. It seems like a no brainer to make it harder to force an OT by stanford.

I admire Geno and all that he has built. Some of the above mentioned instances could be attributed to players. However, I tried hard to focus on only things Geno could have changed. The trend is there. I question his late game calls, and have been for the past few years. Where I do trust him: develop the players into AA and WNBA players and bring home National Championships. Nobody is as good of a coach in March as him.

I don't think it was bad coaching on his part but just a lack of experience of being in that position by the players. Coaches tell you what to do but it's up to you (players) to execute the play. Players have the ability to call TOs; also Kelly didn't block out Novosel for the rebound (fundmentals). And I see you mention the lob to Stewie, however that was not the pass that actually resulted in the turnover. Close game, haven't been in that position in over a year, with no clear leader to calm the team btw both teams were without TOs after that. Each team with one TO in OT and I actually agree about fouling at that point in the game

 

[RadyLady]

I know this post isn't going to be popular, and I'm going to preface it by stating that I do think Geno is on of the top 2 coaches in wcbb history.

However, I do think that his late game coaching, at least in recent years, would not land him in even the top 10. I think he has built a program that is so used to winning the game in the first 15 to 30 minutes, that they struggle to close out close games. I blame the players for putting themselves in the position of a close game, but thats the nature of sports. When you play an evenly matched team, the outcome should be close. I think Geno's coaching down the stretch in close games has been, well, bad....
I admire Geno and all that he has built. Some of the above mentioned instances could be attributed to players. However, I tried hard to focus on only things Geno could have changed. The trend is there. I question his late game calls, and have been for the past few years. Where I do trust him: develop the players into AA and WNBA players and bring home National Championships. Nobody is as good of a coach in March as him.

"Some of the above mentioned instances could be attributed to players. "

at least you said this. There are always 2 sides to every coin and even an edge.
It is always easier to coach from the stands, from the bar, from the armchair, and everyone is entitled to his/her opinion after all.

My dad always said, "don't criticize a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes."

As to the issue of the short bench from the OP, this was asked and answered in another thread entitled I believe "Gabby". Throwing unready players into the mix in a tough game is not wise. Even Nurse, as good as she is and as well as she did, was not able to adjust to how they called the game and fouled out. We really could have used her at the end. But the other three? I am guessing that it was better that they watched and learned. Depending upon how they progress, we may see a longer bench in other close games, but likely further down the road.

 

[RadyLady]

 

[PalPa]

I love ya tomorrow, you're always a day away.

 

[Ellie]

I know this post isn't going to be popular, and I'm going to preface it by stating that I do think Geno is on of the top 2 coaches in wcbb history.

However, I do think that his late game coaching, at least in recent years, would not land him in even the top 10. I think he has built a program that is so used to winning the game in the first 15 to 30 minutes, that they struggle to close out close games. I blame the players for putting themselves in the position of a close game, but thats the nature of sports. When you play an evenly matched team, the outcome should be close. I think Geno's coaching down the stretch in close games has been, well, bad. I'm going to think of a few examples.

• UCONN-ND- Final Four of 2012- Loss in OT. There was an instance where Kelly Faris was double teamed on the sideline with no available options and no dribble. Geno had every ability to bail her out with a timeout, but didn't, leading to a ND steal and easy transition basket.
• UCONN-ND Final Four 2012- Loss in OT. Geno subs out Kiah Stokes, leading to a Novosel offensive rebound and put back to force OT. Could he have predicted they would get a look at the basket, debatable. Did he say post game that it was a mistake taking her out of the game, yes.
• UCONN-ND- 2013 BE Championship- he draws a terrible inbound lob to Stewie which is stolen, leading to what we all remember as the Achonwa winner at the buzzer. That was a hard pill to swallow, and we should have been in the position to lose in regular time.
• UCONN-ND 2013- last game of regular season- loss in 2 or 3 OT. Geno decides to pull the defense off the shooters, daring McBride, a not great 3 point shooter at the time to take a 3. She knocks it down. Could he have chosen to guard her more closely, yes. That game should have never even gone to OT. He should have played the foul game, preventing ND any opportunity of forcing OT barring missed free throws.
• Stanford-UCONN- 2014. OT Loss. Geno takes a timeout with 1:30 left. I'm sorry, but any coach should know to keep a TO available if your team needs a bailout situation in the closing minutes. At the time of the TO, the team wasn't in any grave danger. He then draws up a play for stewie which was so obvious, anybody at home could have noticed.
• Stanford UCONN 2014- OT Loss. Geno doesn't have any timeout's to bail out the 5 second call. Tara had one TO left. Geno elects, or because of the lack of TOs, to not foul on the final possession of the regular time. A simple foul at mid court in non shooting motion drains the clock and prevents Stanford from shooting a 3. It seems like a no brainer to make it harder to force an OT by stanford.

I admire Geno and all that he has built. Some of the above mentioned instances could be attributed to players. However, I tried hard to focus on only things Geno could have changed. The trend is there. I question his late game calls, and have been for the past few years. Where I do trust him: develop the players into AA and WNBA players and bring home National Championships. Nobody is as good of a coach in March as

 

[JoePgh]

On this subject, the thing that concerned me the most was the seemingly complete lack of defense against penetration, especially late in the game. Last year, the help defense was always there to prevent anyone from getting an open path to the basket, but in the last five minutes of last night's game, it felt like Stanford was doing it on every possession.

I really don't have a good hypothesis as to why that defense would have failed so completely. More than any other factor, that is what cost UConn the game.

 

[Hope]

Excuse me while I wipe away some tears rolling down my cheek. But yes, you are right. Vivien Leigh went on to win a second Oscar some 12 years later, proving that.....hell I don't know!

 

[winlots]

100% agree with the short bench, and I made the same comment during the game to anyone sitting in the neighborhood who would listen. You let the kids make mistakes in less-dangerous/important situations so they can learn from them. There was nothing important riding on the outcome of this game, and the starters were mostly performing very inconsistently.

I didn't notice the in-bounds problems you mention. I was actually impressed there were few errors (turnovers), given the intensity of the Stanford defense, until the melt-downs at the end of overtime.

JR: We are just slowly coming up on another late supper here in CT. We're watching tape of the Pats game and are pausing at half time so decided to take a peek at the BY, and obviously yours is the first response to my most recent thread. I've read NO others thus far, though I see that there are others, and I have no idea what's coming (though I expect that some of the "Geno walks on water" bunch MIGHT be chiming in; at the same time I imagine that others of that school would find it beneath their dignity to do so, especially since the message was clear that the usual old saws will have no impact here.
My message to you, JR, is this: your reply was exactly what I admire on the Yard. When you had a different view, you presented it with candor and without any ad hominem nonsense. When you agreed, you said so and elaborated. Prior to your post, I had always thought that you were one of the brightest guys on the BY. The absolute brilliance you showed in agreeing with half of what I had to say confirms that view. Keep smilin'.

 

[winlots]

You're forgetting the real face-palm moment of the game. The Refs initially called the ball out on MoJeff. They stop the game to look at the replay. They decide the ball went off a Stanford players foot, and give the ball to UConn. KML can't inbound the ball in five seconds, and promptly gives the ball back to Stanford. A real WTF moment.

ALUM: am pleased that you saw some of what I saw, for two reasons. Most importantly, I think this "small" part of the game is a very critical part of many games when the outcome is on the line. Secondarily, at my age I'm trying not to get used to being wrong ALL the time, and your comments are reassuring in that struggle. Stay well.

 

[Ellie]

Can't say what Geno coaches/instructs his players re. the excellent points brought up in this thread during his legendary practice sessions but have a hunch he's covered everything mentioned in the Boneyard post-game analysis. Then comes crunch time and kids will be kids. That's why I love watching college basketball. The pursuit of perfection is Geno's mantra but impossible to achieve with youth and all the variables that come with it. Seems IMO coach figures it out around March each year. Wonder how he does that? Must read the Boneyard to figure out what to work on in practice!

 

[winlots]

yes i didn't think of the short bench. but yes good point here. the head scratcher for me as far as coaching last night is. why are there no timeouts left with 35 seconds left to play? The answer is I know we needed to use them, but no way Saniya drives for 2 with a second left when we need a 3 if we had TOs left

BAV: Noticed that certainly and agree with your take on it. I was dumbfounded. But, I don't really attribute that to the coaching on the grounds that you can't possible ingrain everything you want and try to ingrain. Obviously, Geno is as good as it gets.

 

[Zorro]

"Some of the above mentioned instances could be attributed to players. "

My dad always said, "don't criticize a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes."

/QUOTE]

And as Click and Clack pointed out, the REASON for this is that when you DO criticize him, you will be a mile away AND you will have his shoes!

 

[winlots]

The inbounds play was the fault of KML. Kiah was about 7 feet in front of KML , had her defender underneath her, and a simple lob to Kiah's outstretched hand was what Kiah was visibly asking for, for the entire 5 seconds.

About playing only 7 players... The second game of the season is not a time when more than 7 players NEED to play in a game like this. The players need time to develop before being thrown into the fire, and many players (and people) do much better with a slower progression. And it looked to me that the players who were playing need more of the experience they got in this game, and they are the ones who will benefit most from playing in a game like this... in NOVEMBER.

NOR: Understand your point of view on this and appreciate the maturity with which you present your disagreement. On balance, I think I still take the other side, but your point of view seems very powerful to me. Would be fun to see others weigh in on this particular issue.

 

[RadyLady]

Excuse me while I wipe away some tears rolling down my cheek. But yes, you are right. Vivien Leigh went on to win a second Oscar some 12 years later, proving that.....hell I don't know!

LOL - well, I am with some certainty thinking that we won't have to wait very long for success to return to the UConn Huskies Locker room. The Boneyard may have to wait a little longer....

 

[watanabe]

This thread has gone nowhere and back. Haven't you watched DT talk about how Geno coaches? It's not "how" he let them play the way they did. It's "why."
It seems he needed to let them play "their" way. Perhaps he needs them to be ready to listen to him now. Other than a learning experience this game meant NOTHING!

 

[winlots]

I know this post isn't going to be popular, and I'm going to preface it by stating that I do think Geno is on of the top 2 coaches in wcbb history.

However, I do think that his late game coaching, at least in recent years, would not land him in even the top 10. I think he has built a program that is so used to winning the game in the first 15 to 30 minutes, that they struggle to close out close games. I blame the players for putting themselves in the position of a close game, but thats the nature of sports. When you play an evenly matched team, the outcome should be close. I think Geno's coaching down the stretch in close games has been, well, bad. I'm going to think of a few examples.

• UCONN-ND- Final Four of 2012- Loss in OT. There was an instance where Kelly Faris was double teamed on the sideline with no available options and no dribble. Geno had every ability to bail her out with a timeout, but didn't, leading to a ND steal and easy transition basket.
• UCONN-ND Final Four 2012- Loss in OT. Geno subs out Kiah Stokes, leading to a Novosel offensive rebound and put back to force OT. Could he have predicted they would get a look at the basket, debatable. Did he say post game that it was a mistake taking her out of the game, yes.
• UCONN-ND- 2013 BE Championship- he draws a terrible inbound lob to Stewie which is stolen, leading to what we all remember as the Achonwa winner at the buzzer. That was a hard pill to swallow, and we should have been in the position to lose in regular time.
• UCONN-ND 2013- last game of regular season- loss in 2 or 3 OT. Geno decides to pull the defense off the shooters, daring McBride, a not great 3 point shooter at the time to take a 3. She knocks it down. Could he have chosen to guard her more closely, yes. That game should have never even gone to OT. He should have played the foul game, preventing ND any opportunity of forcing OT barring missed free throws.
• Stanford-UCONN- 2014. OT Loss. Geno takes a timeout with 1:30 left. I'm sorry, but any coach should know to keep a TO available if your team needs a bailout situation in the closing minutes. At the time of the TO, the team wasn't in any grave danger. He then draws up a play for stewie which was so obvious, anybody at home could have noticed.
• Stanford UCONN 2014- OT Loss. Geno doesn't have any timeout's to bail out the 5 second call. Tara had one TO left. Geno elects, or because of the lack of TOs, to not foul on the final possession of the regular time. A simple foul at mid court in non shooting motion drains the clock and prevents Stanford from shooting a 3. It seems like a no brainer to make it harder to force an OT by stanford.

I admire Geno and all that he has built. Some of the above mentioned instances could be attributed to players. However, I tried hard to focus on only things Geno could have changed. The trend is there. I question his late game calls, and have been for the past few years. Where I do trust him: develop the players into AA and WNBA players and bring home National Championships. Nobody is as good of a coach in March as him.

RBLACK: fascinating reading. What a marvelous memory. Above all, your respect for "Our Coach" (I'm an unabashed "Our Girls" proponent.....and yes, I would say "Our Boys" if I loved the men's game as I love Our Girls game) comes thru clearly and is something we all feel. Few of us, maybe even none (though I'm not ready to go quite that far) are idiots. I'd add that your post is right in line with the nature of the thread as posted. Fear not and speak you piece.