For what it is worth

[upstater]

That's where UConn fits in - a brand new program that has had some on field success. But when your two bowl wins have come against Buffalo and a MAC school, well, that doesn't impress anyone. You guys were on a good initial trajectory, but you need another 10 to 20 years of success to move up in the prestige rankings. Look at Virginia Tech for a sense of how much further you've got to go. They've been putting up 10 win seasons for 20 years, have played in several BCS games, and they are in the second tier.

You really know very little about UConn football.

UConn football has beaten BCS teams. As for bowl history, it has beaten South Carolina. So stop it. Syracuse couldn't compete against UConn in football in the BE.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The only reason that UCONN is in tha AAC conference, and not in any other conference, is that when people voted on such matters, there were not enough people voting to include UCONN in any other conference.

The rest of this is all just BS as to trying to sort out why those people (small numbers of individuals) that were voting in various conferences from sea to shining sea...trying to figure out why the voted the way they did when those simple votes had such wide ranging consequences and effect on so many people.

The mistake everyone makes, is assuming that because such people are in position of such great power over such large institutions with their simple votes, that they are likely to behave differently than any other human being in arriving at their decisions, or that they have a detailed knowledge of everythign that is involved in what they are voting about at all.

Intercollegiate athletics people, were very right, a little over two decades ago, to be very much afraid of the power that was suddenly put in the hands, of non-athletics university administrators.

 

[freescooter]

There are 3 factors which all come into play, I think. First and foremost, the other conferences are not going to let the B-12 go forward with 10 teams and no conference championship for too long once the playoffs start. Why would you let one league have that advantage for its champ. First upset in a conference championship game will be the last season the b-12 goes without one.
Second, I think the West Virginia concern is real and is being given some consideration by the B-12 office. they really need to figure out a solution because while it screws WV the most, it can also hurt others. So they will be trying to solve that at least to some extent.
Third, there are 3 recruiting hotbeds. California, Texas and Florida. Of the 3, Florida is actually #1 in most rankings and by a fairly wide margin, though different methods of measuring sometimes show Texas or California 1st. But total numbers, number of 5-star recruits, number of recruits per 1000 students, all show Florida as the place to recruit talent. The Big 12 recruits heavily in California and Texas, but only West Virginia has a large any presence in the most fertile recruiting state in the nation. The Big, SEC, ACC and even the PAC recruit Florida more effectively than the B-12. Those things all suggest that the B-12 will be expanding at some point, that at least part of that expansion will be to the east (a partner for West Virginia) and that a presence in Florida isn't that far fetched.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think most UConn fans don't want anything to do with UMass because they haven't been relevant in hoops in years and they are a transition FBS football program with no stadium.

I get the parallel, but UMass is nowhere near our level, while we have surpasses BC in basketball and would be well on our way in football if not for this conference BS.

Make no mistake, while obviously a sound business practice, BC has also made it personal. They are scared of UCONN.

But there were still good back when you stopped playing them.

Frank the Tank gets it - its about turf in a power league.

If we were all invited, then yeah, let's have at it and keep our rivalry going.

But since we are in the lifeboat and you getting in would cut our rations and we might starve before help arrives (i.e. recruiting would suffer and we are trying to revive our football program and you would hinder that process), then yes, you're staying in the water.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You really know very little about UConn football.

UConn football has beaten BCS teams. As for bowl history, it has beaten South Carolina. So stop it. Syracuse couldn't compete against UConn in football in the BE.

You've never beaten a BCS team in a BCS bowl. We have played and won more big time bowl games than you guys ever will. If you want to compare who has beaten who, we will beat your sorry ass at that game. Syracuse got into the ACC, and has been under consideration in all the CR talk, because we always have played against big time opponents every year, while the rest of the Big East was playing Rutgers quality OOC schedules.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

But there were still good back when you stopped playing them.

Frank the Tank gets it - its about turf in a power league.

If we were all invited, then yeah, let's have at it and keep our rivalry going.

But since we are in the lifeboat and you getting in would cut our rations and we might starve before help arrives (i.e. recruiting would suffer and we are trying to revive our football program and you would hinder that process), then yes, you're staying in the water.

What does a basketball series from two decades ago have anything to do with this though?

I just don't understand your viewpoint from a fans standpoint. ACC teams stand to make $20 m a year. Our basketball programs stand on our two feet. It's what 2-3 football recruits a year who's final two are Cuse and UConn?

Look, Cuse is far from "starving" under this set up. From an administrative/business perspective sure it makes sense. As a fan? I'd rather play my rivals, out recruit my rivals and beat my rivals.

Having a conference break up and gaining a tv revenue edge on a rival and celebrating it like a championship - make no mistake that's the consensus on your board - just would cheapen it for me.

That's my $.02

 

[CTGoonie]

You've never beaten a BCS team in a BCS bowl. We have played and won more big time bowl games than you guys ever will. If you want to compare who has beaten who, we will beat your sorry ass at that game. Syracuse got into the ACC, and has been under consideration in all the CR talk, because we always have played against big time opponents every year, while the rest of the Big East was playing Rutgers quality OOC schedules.

This is hilarious. So all Uconn has to do is schedule top-tier competition each year (and perform as poorly as SU did) and we're in. Gotcha.

 

[upstater]

You've never beaten a BCS team in a BCS bowl. We have played and won more big time bowl games than you guys ever will. If you want to compare who has beaten who, we will beat your sorry ass at that game. Syracuse got into the ACC, and has been under consideration in all the CR talk, because we always have played against big time opponents every year, while the rest of the Big East was playing Rutgers quality OOC schedules.

Syracuse couldn't compete against UConn in football in the BE.

Syracuse has NEVER won a BCS bowl game.

Now admit you were wrong about UConn's bowls and move on.

 

[ddminct]

Why does anyone listed to Matt? He goes around defending Bernie Fine. They're like kindred spirits

 

[upstater]

But there were still good back when you stopped playing them.

Frank the Tank gets it - its about turf in a power league.

If we were all invited, then yeah, let's have at it and keep our rivalry going.

But since we are in the lifeboat and you getting in would cut our rations and we might starve before help arrives (i.e. recruiting would suffer and we are trying to revive our football program and you would hinder that process), then yes, you're staying in the water.

Again, you come to this board and start preaching history to UConn fans without considering we know a little more about UConn than you. We know our history before entering the BE. We know the bowls we've played (you don't). We know the background on the UMass series (which is now duplicating itself with PC's demands for an annual game). You can say all this , but you're wrong.

 

[The Funster]

You've never beaten a BCS team in a BCS bowl. We have played and won more big time bowl games than you guys ever will. If you want to compare who has beaten who, we will beat your sorry ass at that game. Syracuse got into the ACC, and has been under consideration in all the CR talk, because we always have played against big time opponents every year, while the rest of the Big East was playing Rutgers quality OOC schedules.

Your football team sucks and if getting in on the coattails of long retired stars makes your school good then you can have it.

Your basketball team is going to get its head handed to it for violations and will suck.

You suck. Get lost.

 

[freescooter]

If you want to call it "fear", that's fine, but at the end of the day, if UConn is going to get much more upside from joining the ACC than BC and/or Syracuse would get from letting UConn in, why *wouldn't* they block UConn? That's like a McDonald's franchise owner actually inviting Burger King to open up a store right next door. There's an element of "fear" in that case that Burger King could take away business from McDonald's in that situation, and that fear is perfectly logical. So, why would you invite that fear next door and instead keep yourselves safe in a gated community? There could be personal and "fear"-based reasons why BC would block UConn from the ACC, but the ultimate conclusion is still perfectly logical from a business standpoint. Expecting entities to willingly act against their own self-interests in conference realignment (or business in general) simply isn't realistic.

Frank, you are right in a sense, but BC's play by play guy was widely quoted in an on-air interview as indicating that one of BC's principal reasons for moving to the ACC was that they couldn't compete with UConn. Similar thing was said by the head of their alumni Association. Now that was in some respects a different situation, they were leaving rather than tryin got keep UConn out, and I get the difference. But clearly fear of the big dog from 90 miles down the road has been a motivation for a long while.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

The reason you are not "a better program" than Pitt or Syracuse, for instance, is because both Pitt and Syracuse have won national championships. Both have had Heisman trophy winners. Both have had dozens of players in the NFL, and many in the Hall of Fame.

It's what somebody else in this thread called "Old Money" - that's what makes a brand, that's what gets the casual viewer interested. What a team has done in the last 10 years isn't that relevant to its brand. Nobody thinks of Boise State when they have these discussions.

That's where UConn fits in - a brand new program that has had some on field success. But when your two bowl wins have come against Buffalo and a MAC school, well, that doesn't impress anyone. You guys were on a good initial trajectory, but you need another 10 to 20 years of success to move up in the prestige rankings. Look at Virginia Tech for a sense of how much further you've got to go. They've been putting up 10 win seasons for 20 years, have played in several BCS games, and they are in the second tier.

Stop act like CUSE is somebody. CUSE SUCKS. You are behind UCONN in both FB and BB. You got into the ACC because your buddy Miami wanted some NE private school traveling buddies. They went to bat for you and BCU. That's it. Nobody young today remembers any of your history. You are just a team playing in an outdated stadium with that ugly orange color. There is such a thing called Karma. Both BCU and CUSE will get it turned on them at some point. There is simply no way a school like UCONN would be left behind in this realignment crap. UCONN has way more upside potential than both BCU and CUSE combined. UCONN has access to resources both BCU and CUSE can only dream of. It might look like ACC protected itself this round, but things can and will change again in the future.

 

[tzznandrew]

I think the problem for Cuse and BC is this: they have to be sure that UConn doesn't get anywhere, or this blows up in their face.

Yes, it may suck competing against UConn for recruits all in the ACC. But, if UConn were to get into the BXII or B1G, suddenly you brought some combination of Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma into those recruiting grounds. Suddenly, your game against Florida State or Clemson is upstaged on the same day down the road by a game against one of those schools.

If UConn never gets into a power conference, then this works for them; however, if the ACC were smart, once there was a chance that one of those two conference would come calling (and, right now it looks grim, sure), they need to invite UConn as fast as possible to ward them off. That Rutgers is in the B1G is a big enough mistake for the ACC...

 

[Carl Spackler]

You've never beaten a BCS team in a BCS bowl. We have played and won more big time bowl games than you guys ever will. If you want to compare who has beaten who, we will beat your sorry ass at that game. Syracuse got into the ACC, and has been under consideration in all the CR talk, because we always have played against big time opponents every year, while the rest of the Big East was playing Rutgers quality OOC schedules.

You're full of . THe only reason that Syracuse is in the ACC is because Jake Crouthamel was smart enough to realize a decade ago, that upstate New York community was fading away and degrading, and that the only way to the sustain the university would be to find a different conference home in athletics among universities with similar missions, that was not the case in the Big East. It took him resigning to get the university administration to understand, and move on it and establish the personal relationships that were required to make such a move.

UCONN was busy winning national championships in men's and women's basketball and building a football program that kicked the crap out of Syracuse over the past decade.

If at the same time, anybody at UCONN had been cultivating the relationships outside the big east, that Syracuse had been building, things would be a lot different for UCONN now.

We'll continue to win championships, and compete nationally, regardless of who we're alligned with, in a league, and we are situated in a financially secure state who's only problem is that our politicians are a bunch of liberal minded government handout nincompoops, but that can change very quickly thankful to the founding father's plans of regular voting cycles.

Enjoy your basketball tournments in Greensboro, and I look forward to the next time we can schedule Syracuse on the gridiron, and make up for that turd we dropped last year when the team was completely gassed after the first 8 weeks of the season.

I hope you like the taste of UCONN in your mouth.

 

[nojokea4]

Frank, you are right in a sense, but BC's play by play guy was widely quoted in an on-air interview as indicating that one of BC's principal reasons for moving to the ACC was that they couldn't compete with UConn. Similar thing was said by the head of their alumni Association. Now that was in some respects a different situation, they were leaving rather than tryin got keep UConn out, and I get the difference. But clearly fear of the big dog from 90 miles down the road has been a motivation for a long while.

Does the reason why make us feel better about this if its fear?

I mean there are certainly competitive advantages we have over the beagles. Calhoun had more leash then the current powers that be up there would ever allow based on their attempt at public image and this could theoretically be duplicated in football. I think we are far less likely to have admissions hurdles or borderline disciplinary violations. Plus we have a ton more living alums and they are way more localized and are a state school so CT people have a connect MA people don't have with BCU, but isn't this "fear" the same thing as preserving a competitive advantage?

As to the initial move, regardless of what a play by play guy said (do you have a link to this out of curiousity?) i think the at the time 4-5 million or so dollars a year (from like 3 to 7) and fear of being in a conference without Miami was probably the driving force more than us.

 

[nojokea4]

I think the problem for Cuse and BC is this: they have to be sure that UConn doesn't get anywhere, or this blows up in their face.

Yes, it may suck competing against UConn for recruits all in the ACC. But, if UConn were to get into the BXII or B1G, suddenly you brought some combination of Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma into those recruiting grounds. Suddenly, you're game against Florida State or Clemson is upstaged on the same day down the road by a game against one of those schools.

If UConn never gets into a power conference, then this works for them; however, if the ACC were smart, once there was a chance that one of those two conference would come calling (and, right now it looks grim, sure), they need to invite UConn as fast as possible to ward them off. That Rutgers is in the B1G is a big enough mistake for the ACC...

I think this is true for the B1G not the B12. I think the B12 would obviously be a huge upgrade from the AAC but would still kind of stink in most ways.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's not about weakness. It's about business. The Duke/UNC/NC State/Wake geographic concentration in the ACC is a relic from the past. If only Duke and UNC were in the ACC while NC State and Wake were on the outside looking in stuck in the AAC, Duke and UNC would never throw them a lifeline. That simply would never happen in the conference realignment landscape of today, so comparing their setup that was built on short bus rides in the 1950s to what leagues are looking at today is disingenuous.

From my outside viewpoint, it's really not that complicated. BC and, maybe to a lesser extent, Syracuse simply want to own what they consider to be their territory from a power conference standpoint. To the extent that they think UConn might encroach into that territory, it makes 100% business sense to block them out. This is hardly unique either in conference realignment or the business world in general. I understand the frustration from a UConn fan standpoint, but if I were running BC, there's absolutely NFW that I'd want to let UConn into the ACC. It does BC no good whatsoever (despite the claims that "regional interest" could be enhanced). Being "scared" has little to do with it. USC and UCLA aren't going to let in San Diego State into the Pac-12, Ohio State isn't going to let Cincinnati into the Big Ten, and Florida won't even let a legit football power and actual rival Florida State into the SEC. Heck, I'm sure a lot of UConn fans don't even want UMass in the AAC based on the exact same rationale that BC is using against UConn. There's very little difference with the BC/Syracuse situation (as they look at the "Northeast" as their market as opposed to a state or a particular market area). They simply don't have an incentive to help out who they perceive to be a direct competitor. Now, that doesn't mean that you have to be happy about it - I'm just saying that I can't see any very compelling reason for BC or Syracuse to budge if I was looking at it from their standpoints. It helps UConn out a LOT more than it helps them.

Frank, I think this is spot on, but misses one critical difference that I think is unique to New Engalnd or the NorthEast.

In Florida, in North Carolina, in Ohio, even in SoCal, there are already strong appetites for college football. In New England, BC is suffering due to both some huge mistakes in hiring because the landscape is poorly receptive to the sport in general. BC would benefit tremendously from growth in interest in the sport of college football in New England, and UConn could make that happen. So while I appreciate the stance they took, in this specific case it was short sighted and a mistake. They diminished interest in their own program as a result, at a time when it needs a boost. New Engalnders are astonishingly parochial, and Bostonians are the worst (I know, I married one). Fan interest at BC has been down since the ACC move. Cuse and Pitt will help, but a truly local rival is something BC desperately needs. It has it in spades in hockey, and not surprisingly, that's the sport that drives interest at BC.

So in this unique case, I think it helps BC as much as UConn. Hell, it would probably even drive the sport at the HS level and make the area a better recruiting ground.

 

[upstater]

Does the reason why make us feel better about this if its fear?

I mean there are certainly competitive advantages we have over the beagles. Calhoun had more leash then the current powers that be up there would ever allow based on their attempt at public image and this could theoretically be duplicated in football. I think we are far less likely to have admissions hurdles or borderline disciplinary violations. Plus we have a ton more living alums and they are way more localized and are a state school so CT people have a connect MA people don't have with BCU, but isn't this "fear" the same thing as preserving a competitive advantage?

As to the initial move, regardless of what a play by play guy said (do you have a link to this out of curiousity?) i think the at the time 4-5 million or so dollars a year (from like 3 to 7) and fear of being in a conference without Miami was probably the driving force more than us.

It's just the debate. Many loathe UConn and make the case that UConn is really an inferior school. Others, based on the reports we've been given, point out that UConn is blocked. That's the debate.

 

[06029]

Frank, I think this is spot on, but misses one critical difference that I think is unique to New Engalnd or the NorthEast.

In Florida, in North Carolina, in Ohio, even in SoCal, there are already strong appetites for college football. In New England, BC is suffering due to both some huge mistakes in hiring because the landscape is poorly receptive to the sport in general. BC would benefit tremendously from growth in interest in the sport of college football in New England, and UConn could make that happen. So while I appreciate the stance they took, in this specific case it was short sighted and a mistake. They diminished interest in their own program as a result, at a time when it needs a boost. New Engalnders are astonishingly parochial, and Bostonians are the worst (I know, I married one). Fan interest at BC has been down since the ACC move. Cuse and Pitt will help, but a truly local rival is something BC desperately needs. It has it in spades in hockey, and not surprisingly, that's the sport that drives interest at BC.

So in this unique case, I think it helps BC as much as UConn. Hell, it would probably even drive the sport at the HS level and make the area a better recruiting ground.

The primary reason for the decline in attendance at BC is the exact same reason it declined at Uconn, poor on field performance and brain dead coaching. When Matt Ryan was playing with a decent OC, the interest and attendance was there. Same as when Edsall had Uconn near the top of the BE. BC also stubbed their toe by implementing the worst conceived donor based seating plan ever, coupled with a 100% increase in parking fees and a declining economy, and you get the attendance slide.

Given the strength of the NE recruiting class last year and this year, I think that the HS level is growing. But BC and Uconn should be playing every year in every sport.

 

[Fishy]

It happened earlier than that. Pitt was a perfect fit for the ACC. The Big 12 had a very logical expansion block to WVU, Pitt, Cinci and Louisville, all of which are geographically coherent. The ACC should have added UConn and Rutgers long ago. If it had UConn and Rutgers now, instead of Pitt and Louisville, it would be better off. It would control the NY market.

There have been a lot of missteps in getting to where things are now.

There was such a logical path to expansion for the Big 12 and they fumbled it while Texas dithered.

Now they have a completely illogical path and will likely be forced to head down it eventually.

 

[auggie22]

Ithaca Matt, I won't mince words because I do not appreciate you on this board - at this time in particular - taking any stance against uconn. You are being a dick - are you smart enough to see this?

Since you are too dumb or sadistic to understand what most people see as obvious, I will go full mushroom cap ( because, frankly, this is my house not yours, and you saw it necessary to trespass ). Your university or town ( because who would be a fan of SU in this day and age if you were not one or the other ) is dying. Whatever happens to our athletic program, this much is certain. A non-description private school in Canada, for 50k a year, with declining admissions standards save for a broadcasting school, set in a city that would make a great location for a Walking Dead episode. No wonder you have to entice athletes with your lax interpretation of the legal code.

Your toothless fans talk about how Otto is taking over campus arenas all along the east cost, but really this is just people anxious to flee central New York.

You will one day soon see the day where a uconn athletic fan can gloat ( that day came a long time ago for the academic side ). My guess is we will be too busy living our lives to do so. Life moves quick here in civilization.

 

[whaler11]

Ithaca Matt, I won't mince words because I do not appreciate you on this board - at this time in particular - taking any stance against uconn. You are being a - are you smart enough to see this?

Since you are too dumb or sadistic to understand what most people see as obvious, I will go full mushroom cap ( because, frankly, this is my house not yours, and you saw it necessary to trespass ). Your university or town ( because who would be a fan of SU in this day and age if you were not one or the other ) is dying. Whatever happens to our athletic program, this much is certain. A non-description private school in Canada, for 50k a year, with declining admissions standards save for a broadcasting school, set in a city that would make a great location for a Walking Dead episode. No wonder you have to entice athletes with your lax interpretation of the legal code.

Your toothless fans talk about how Otto is taking over campus arenas all along the east cost, but really this is just people anxious to flee central New York.

You will one day soon see the day where a uconn athletic fan can gloat ( that day came a long time ago for the academic side ). My guess is we will be too busy living our lives to do so. Life moves quick here in civilization.

He's just playing you guys for these reactions. He may be stupid enough to brag about being from Ithaca but no one is dumb enough to post the nonsense he does.

 

[Alum86]

The primary reason for the decline in attendance at BC is the exact same reason it declined at Uconn, poor on field performance and brain dead coaching. When Matt Ryan was playing with a decent OC, the interest and attendance was there. Same as when Edsall had Uconn near the top of the BE. BC also stubbed their toe by implementing the worst conceived donor based seating plan ever, coupled with a 100% increase in parking fees and a declining economy, and you get the attendance slide.

Given the strength of the NE recruiting class last year and this year, I think that the HS level is growing. But BC and Uconn should be playing every year in every sport.

Right on the first part (how Chestnut Hill declined) and so wrong on the second. (Playing THE Jesuits in every sport each year).
On all things holy and at the altar of JC (Calhoun, not Jesus) NFW we associate with or play them. No a.. Kissing, networking with anything ACC, especially them.
They have d.cked us over too many times.

 

[06029]

Right on the first part (how Chestnut Hill declined) and so wrong on the second. (Playing THE Jesuits in every sport each year).
On all things holy and at the altar of JC (Calhoun, not Jesus) NFW we associate with or play them. No a.. Kissing, networking with anything ACC, especially them.
They have d.cked us over too many times.

So Uconn should forfeit the soccer, field hockey and baseball games they have played every year? How about the hockey east games that start next year? Time to stop being selective. And given the conference schedule coming up for Uconn, it is time to start an OOC i every sport. Move on. All things JC may have helped Uconn to be where they are today.