OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

[UConnTrumbull]

Why are these schools even suing? What do they hope to get out of it? Surely the ACC isn't going to just wake up one morning and go "you know what those schools are right, let's give them more money." Why not just honor your side of the deal but make it clear that when it ends you will be exploring other options?

To reduce the settlement that will inevitably happen.

Or to entice enough schools to agree on o implode the conference

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This thread makes no sense once the DB blocks you . . .

It makes it kind of hilarious.

 

[AllHusky]

Me, most likely

I enjoy conversing...but don't converse when someone gets personal or ugly...I don't remember Excalibur...but by his acronym use, I could see me saying..."this isn't about sports, it is an attack". Since I can not remember..I have unignored him and he can now ignore me...LOL

Hang tough Billybud, love your takes and more importantly how closely you follow and inform us of the goings on during this insane process. Take the high road and always remember, it's never about you, rather the poster who likes to trash you

 

[billybud]

Why are these schools even suing? What do they hope to get out of it? Surely the ACC isn't going to just wake up one morning and go "you know what those schools are right, let's give them more money." Why not just honor your side of the deal but make it clear that when it ends you will be exploring other options?

Fair enough...Clemson and FSU have just asked the courts "what is our side of the deal?"...

The problem for the ACC is that it appears that they have misrepresented just what the deal is...

Through 2036 as they have stated over and over..or through 2026 ? Have they hidden the fact that ESPN only has through 2026 and did not exercise their option to extend to by the date in the ESPN Agreement (2021) ?

Clemson is getting the ESPN Agreement...receipt of the ESPN agreement is still problematic for FSU since, under the law of the state, it will become public information. And the State AG is already suing to enforce the laws of the state.

One might well ask, while you are at it.."why has the whole 161 page ESPN Agreement, that impacts the duties schools owe the conference, been kept top secret...contents hidden from the schools that it effects ?

Trade Secrets ? The whole dang contract ?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

IIRC, the initial dismissal by a Florida court was due to the court not being allowed to 'interpret' until a suit specifically asking the court to do so is brought forward.

It sounds to me that FSU, Clemson and any other member of the conference now has full ability to view wh a's t they claimed they had been prevented from viewing. Unless any school views the confidentiality as unreasonable, there is no reason for things to move forward. The schools can have their legal teams review the documents and then decide if they do or do not have cause to bring a suit (and let the courts decide if the legality of the agreements in question).

 

[Chin Diesel]

Fair enough...Clemson and FSU have just asked the courts "what is our side of the deal?"...

The problem for the ACC is that it appears that they have misrepresented just what the deal is...

Through 2036 as they have stated over and over..or through 2026 ? Have they hidden the fact that ESPN only has through 2026 and did not exercise their option to extend to by the date in the ESPN Agreement (2021) ?

Clemson is getting the ESPN Agreement...receipt of the ESPN agreement is still problematic for FSU since, under the law of the state, it will become public information. And the State AG is already suing to enforce the laws of the state.

One might well ask, while you are at it.."why has the whole 161 page ESPN Agreement, that impacts the duties schools owe the conference, been kept top secret...contents hidden from the schools that it effects ?

Trade Secrets ? The whole dang contract ?

So, this basically comes down to the universities may have been naive and gave the conference full autonomy to negotiate on behalf of the universities and then lock the universities in to the deal the conference negotiated.

OTOH, while holding all those trump cards, the conference may have deceived or withheld info from those same universities.

 

[billybud]

FSU has not been able to get a copy of the ESPN Agreement nor has the Florida Attorney General ....In South Carolina, the judge has ordered that Clemson receive within seven days, an unredacted copy of the ESPN Agreement. He has declared that, for now, that it was confidential and could only be reviewed by the attorneys.

No school has the ESPN Agreement as of now.

Florida law and the case law supporting that (as I linked in this thread) mean that if FSU receives a copy of the ESPN Agreement to review than it becomes public information.

 

[billybud]

I believe that Judge Cooper, in Florida, will have the ACC/ESPN declare just what in the ESPN contract is a "trade secret"...and surely not the entire contract. Florida law does make an allowance for the protection of trade secrets...but nobody has declared that the whole contract is a trade secret.. The judge will than issue a decision on what is protected and what is not.

 

[freescooter]

So, this basically comes down to the universities may have been naive and gave the conference full autonomy to negotiate on behalf of the universities and then lock the universities in to the deal the conference negotiated.

OTOH, while holding all those trump cards, the conference may have deceived or withheld info from those same universities.

I guess that is possible, though I would think it is unlikely. I would assume that the CEO of the Conference wasn’t authorized to sign an agreement without a vote of the Board which consists of the Member Presidents and Chancellors. And I highly doubt they would authorize such an agreement without reviewing it. No board would. I guess it is possible that the President of Clemson today wouldn’t agree with what her predecessor did, but we all live with contacts our predecessors made that we wish they hadn’t.

 

[billybud]

But. The ESPN contract was secret. The schools never could review it. Until now. And Clemson will get a non redacted copy.

If there have been willful misrepresentations, the ACC will be in a bad way. Clemson is suing for damages and, I’d suppose, FSU might follow. I hear old Dandy Don singing softly..”Close the door, turn out the lights, the party’s over”.

 

[noeynox]

So, this basically comes down to the universities may have been naive and gave the conference full autonomy to negotiate on behalf of the universities and then lock the universities in to the deal the conference negotiated.

OTOH, while holding all those trump cards, the conference may have deceived or withheld info from those same universities.

Hard to see it this way. The schools make up the conference. Unless 1 group of schools within the conference set out to deceive the other group.

I just think Clemson and FSU and to a lesser degree UNC now see that if they were paired with a different group of schools they stand to make more money. The schools left behind will make less so they have every right to put up a stink.

The only logical conclusion is certain schools representatives were really bad in relation to "not knowing" what is and isn't in the agreement.

 

[freescooter]

But. The ESPN contract was secret. The schools never could review it. Until now. And Clemson will get a non redacted copy.

If there have been willful misrepresentations, the ACC will be in a bad way. Clemson is suing for damages and, I’d suppose, FSU might follow. I hear old Dandy Don singing softly..”Close the door, turn out the lights, the party’s over”.

But the ACC IS the schools. If a 30 year agreement was signed without their concurrence as is being claimed, there is a huge problem

 

[FfldCntyFan]

But. The ESPN contract was secret. The schools never could review it. Until now. And Clemson will get a non redacted copy.

If there have been willful misrepresentations, the ACC will be in a bad way. Clemson is suing for damages and, I’d suppose, FSU might follow. I hear old Dandy Don singing softly..”Close the door, turn out the lights, the party’s over”.

That is a bit of a leap that you are taking my friend.

If the member schools were never allowed to see the signed contract, why did it take this long for someone to take action?

If (as you had claimed more than once in the recent past) that the ACC commissioner went beyond his authority, it would be an open and shut case and we'd already be at the point where damages are being determined.

The reality is what happened falls somewhere in a gray area between the commissioner/conference having done everything within the letter of their authority (even if the appearance is that information had been withheld from member schools) and the commissioner/conference took liberties that weren't allowed within the letter of their authority.

The party isn't over, it is just beginning.

 

[Chin Diesel]

That is a bit of a leap that you are taking my friend.

If the member schools were never allowed to see the signed contract, why did it take this long for someone to take action?

If (as you had claimed more than once in the recent past) that the ACC commissioner went beyond his authority, it would be an open and shut case and we'd already be at the point where damages are being determined.

The reality is what happened falls somewhere in a gray area between the commissioner/conference having done everything within the letter of their authority (even if the appearance is that information had been withheld from member schools) and the commissioner/conference took liberties that weren't allowed within the letter of their authority.

The party isn't over, it is just beginning.

I don't have a dog in this fight but is it reasonable to suggest around 8-9 of the schools were better off being wilfully ignorant of what's in the contract? For BCU, Cuse, Pitt amd others they weren't ever getting a better deal for the duration of the contract.

 

[UConnJim]

The key issue appears to me to be that the ACC acted improperly in extending the ESPN extension option from 2021 to 2025, without approval of 2/3 of the schools. If that is the case, I would think a judge may find for FSU and Clemson.

 

[Rufus]

Florida State To Offer Bonds In Hopes Of Raising Over $300M For Facility Improvements

The public institution has been open about its need to obtain funding to compete at the highest level.

www.si.com

 

[The Yakk]

Florida State To Offer Bonds In Hopes Of Raising Over $300M For Facility Improvements

The public institution has been open about its need to obtain funding to compete at the highest level.

www.si.com

LOL Has FSU given up on the private equity idea already?

A lot of unintentional comedy coming out of that administration, for sure.

 

[billybud]

LOL Has FSU given up on the private equity idea already?

A lot of unintentional comedy coming out of that administration, for sure.

"FSU has a lot of experience financing large expenditures and the Athletic Department is in a solid financial position to borrow at a very low interest rate without ceding any management control to a third party. FSU’s discussions with private equity firms likely will narrow in the future to a possible limited partnership involving an investment in FSU’s licensing activities by a party with expertise to boost the brand value of the Athletic Department. There have been similar partnerships in recent years, particularly in minor-league baseball, that have proven beneficial for ownership groups and private equity firms.

Over the past year, FSU’s athletic department, flush with positive cash flow, set in motion $503 million in projects that require bond financing. Resolutions approved by the State’s Division of Bond Finance in December 2023, identify two projects: $116 million for a new Football Operations Facility, and $265 million for renovations to the football stadium (e.g.., luxury boxes, premium seating areas, chairbacks for general seating areas)."

 

[billybud]

When I was kid, my prize possession was a Fanner 50. A cap gun with a modified hammer allowing bursts of un aimed shots by fanning the hammer.

 

[The Yakk]

"FSU has a lot of experience financing large expenditures and the Athletic Department is in a solid financial position to borrow at a very low interest rate without ceding any management control to a third party. FSU’s discussions with private equity firms likely will narrow in the future to a possible limited partnership involving an investment in FSU’s licensing activities by a party with expertise to boost the brand value of the Athletic Department. There have been similar partnerships in recent years, particularly in minor-league baseball, that have proven beneficial for ownership groups and private equity firms.

Over the past year, FSU’s athletic department, flush with positive cash flow, set in motion $503 million in projects that require bond financing. Resolutions approved by the State’s Division of Bond Finance in December 2023, identify two projects: $116 million for a new Football Operations Facility, and $265 million for renovations to the football stadium (e.g.., luxury boxes, premium seating areas, chairbacks for general seating areas)."

Very cool. FSU is "flush with positive cash flow", but they also need to go borrow money or get a capital infusion from private equity.

Meanwhile they throw a Hail Mary lawsuit to try to weasel out of the GOR, when they could easily just pay a good faith settlement to their conference "partners" and füćk off into the night.

And why is it so imperative to leave the ACC? Because their lesser conference partners do not recognize their divine right to an unequal share of the conference revenues.

Like I said, unintentional comedy. Whichever lucky P2 conference inherits this clown show is in for a world of fun.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

LOL Has FSU given up on the private equity idea already?

A lot of unintentional comedy coming out of that administration, for sure.

Very cool. FSU is "flush with positive cash flow", but they also need to go borrow money or get a capital infusion from private equity.

Meanwhile they throw a Hail Mary lawsuit to try to weasel out of the GOR, when they could easily just pay a good faith settlement to their conference "partners" and füćk off into the night.

And why is it so imperative to leave the ACC? Because their lesser conference partners do not recognize their divine right to an unequal share of the conference revenues.

Like I said, unintentional comedy. Whichever lucky P2 conference inherits this clown show is in for a world of fun.

There is really nothing to add to this analysis. You have absolutely nailed the absurdity of FSU's behavior. We can close this thread.

 

[billybud]

So. You don’t like FSU. Yawn.

 

[Waquoit]

There is really nothing to add to this analysis. You have absolutely nailed the absurdity of FSU's behavior. We can close this thread.

They will always be Free Shoes University to me.

 

[AllHusky]

Back in the Age of Rules

 

[The Yakk]

So. You don’t like FSU. Yawn.

Never really thought about them much, until some FSU supporter started highlighting some of their lunatic behavior.