OT: DIII sports experience

[upstater]

About D3 and athletics, the secret that few people talk about is that the teams will be partially stocked with students who are decent or marginal athletes, because they are students from affluent families. These families use the summer athletics special admissions window to shoehorn their kid into the school. Otherwise, the student would not be admitted based on grades, etc. This helps the school because it allows them to lock down their budget with full payers long before the Early Admissions window. This is also the reason why 35% of students at these schools play on sports teams, and why prep schools often require all students to participate in sports. Varsity Blues is very real. This doesn't mean of course that top athletes don't play D3 or that all D3 athletes are full payers. Not at all.

 

[UConnRock]

I am a UConn fan, but did not go to UConn. I played baseball at a D-III school. Loved the experience and my personality at age 18 was a better fit in the small college atmosphere. No complaints about my overall experience in a small liberal arts school. As I got older I was jealous of the folks who went to the large schools and had deeply engrained rooting interests. Living in the south now, I see the emotion and connection that kids have for their schools. I do feel like I missed out some aspects of the college eperience.

As far as the financial burden, it was not an issue for my family as the D-lll school came up with enough $$ to be competitive with in-state tuition. Questions to ask:

- Taking finances and athletics out of the equation, what school is the student most comfortable attending?
- If the student blew out a knee or just became burned out with athletics and academics would she be happy at the small school.
- Is missing out on college athletics something that the student or parents would regret?
- Is the financial burden enough to focus on other D-lll schools that may fork over more aid?

If I had it to do over again, I don't know what decision I would make. It is a very tough call when a athlete has been so dedicated to a sport most of their young life and they have to decide whether their competitive playing career is done or can be extended a few years.

 

[Fishy]

We just toured her school this weekend! She most know the Nigerian rugby player from England who took us around. I was impressed by the school.

I’m sure - they all seem to know everyone.

You missed her by a week! She goes back early next week before the freshmen roll in, but not sure when she starts giving tours. You might be fortunate…the kid is a talker and they pay by the hour. You’d be touring the parking lots and broom closets.

Were you there with a kid in tow or there as an educator?

 

[upstater]

I’m sure - they all seem to know everyone.

You missed her by a week! She goes back early next week before the freshmen roll in, but not sure when she starts giving tours. You might be fortunate…the kid is a talker and they pay by the hour. You’d be touring the parking lots and broom closets.

Were you there with a kid in tow or there as an educator?

My daughter is a junior. We were vacationing in Watch Hill and it rained. So, we did the tour. She has 6 schools that are definites so far, about 15 that are maybes, and Conn. College is on the maybe list.

The tour took 1 1/2 hrs, in the rain, but they gave us umbrellas. The school really caters to students, and my daughter liked that. I'm all for schools emphasizing the learning experience, so I can appreciate it, but when you give kids that much freedom, it's dangerous (saying that more as an educator than a parent). I'm talking about the school's "honor system," which is a smart program, but whenever I cut kids a break, only half take advantage of it. The others make matters worse.

 

[Chuck]

My daughter is a junior. We were vacationing in Watch Hill and it rained. So, we did the tour. She has 6 schools that are definites so far, about 15 that are maybes, and Conn. College is on the maybe list.

The tour took 1 1/2 hrs, in the rain, but they gave us umbrellas. The school really caters to students, and my daughter liked that. I'm all for schools emphasizing the learning experience, so I can appreciate it, but when you give kids that much freedom, it's dangerous (saying that more as an educator than a parent). I'm talking about the school's "honor system," which is a smart program, but whenever I cut kids a break, only half take advantage of it. The others make matters worse.

My wife went to a Quaker college with a strict honor code. To this day she thinks it’s weird that someone would cheat and that someone wouldn’t report it if they did. I think the kids at these schools take the honor code very seriously. And tiny schools can pull it off. Good luck in your search, with or without soccer.

 

[Fishy]

My daughter is a junior. We were vacationing in Watch Hill and it rained. So, we did the tour. She has 6 schools that are definites so far, about 15 that are maybes, and Conn. College is on the maybe list.

The tour took 1 1/2 hrs, in the rain, but they gave us umbrellas. The school really caters to students, and my daughter liked that. I'm all for schools emphasizing the learning experience, so I can appreciate it, but when you give kids that much freedom, it's dangerous (saying that more as an educator than a parent). I'm talking about the school's "honor system," which is a smart program, but whenever I cut kids a break, only half take advantage of it. The others make matters worse.

They take the honor code seriously. A student in my daughter’s FYS was caught plagiarizing an entry from Wikipedia and sent to the honor council - they suspended him for the spring semester.

The ‘schedule your own tests’ thing does not really seem to come into play.

It wasn’t really my first choice for her - I was actually set against it until I took a trip out on my own to visit. The size concerned me, but I was slowly sold on it being a positive. And it has been - professors and students seem to know each other better than they might at a larger school. Most of them hosted a class at their house or had the class over for dinner or barbecues during the semester.

Her FYS took her to New York and Boston and her Russian class spent ten days in Tblisi, Georgia.

There are downsides, too. Being so small, she occasionally felt like she could never find a place on campus where she was alone. The food is meh and the maintenance staff needs to be frog-marched into the Sound.

If Conn moves from maybe to possible, let me know and we can put our daughter’s in touch. My daughter tends to be brutally honest about things.

 

[upstater]

They take the honor code seriously. A student in my daughter’s FYS was caught plagiarizing an entry from Wikipedia and sent to the honor council - they suspended him for the spring semester.

The ‘schedule your own tests’ thing does not really seem to come into play.

It wasn’t really my first choice for her - I was actually set against it until I took a trip out on my own to visit. The size concerned me, but I was slowly sold on it being a positive. And it has been - professors and students seem to know each other better than they might at a larger school. Most of them hosted a class at their house or had the class over for dinner or barbecues during the semester.

Her FYS took her to New York and Boston and her Russian class spent ten days in Tblisi, Georgia.

There are downsides, too. Being so small, she occasionally felt like she could never find a place on campus where she was alone. The food is meh and the maintenance staff needs to be frog-marched into the Sound.

If Conn moves from maybe to possible, let me know and we can put our daughter’s in touch. My daughter tends to be brutally honest about things.

Thanks Fishy. Will do. Appreciate it. We already noted the limited food options. But it’s valuable to know the “”schedule your test” is something happening in theory. Not usually.

 

[upstater]

My wife went to a Quaker college with a strict honor code. To this day she thinks it’s weird that someone would cheat and that someone wouldn’t report it if they did. I think the kids at these schools take the honor code very seriously. And tiny schools can pull it off. Good luck in your search, with or without soccer.

It will be without soccer. I played club sports in college. That seems to be what I want for her and I think it’s the route she will take. Even tho she’s an excellent athlete I don’t want her to go thru what my student athletes do. They give me their forms on the 1st day, and then I only see them half the time. Had a kid that left for NBA camp in April never to be seen again. Quite a dilemma for everyone involved.

 

[Chuck]

It will be without soccer. I played club sports in college. That seems to be what I want for her and I think it’s the route she will take. Even tho she’s an excellent athlete I don’t want her to go thru what my student athletes do. They give me their forms on the 1st day, and then I only see them half the time. Had a kid that left for NBA camp in April never to be seen again. Quite a dilemma for everyone involved.

my kids will be playing their last year of school soccer this fall. My daughter is looking at similar schools, but has preferred the slightly bigger (3k schools). Food looked great at those!

 

[yungdowork]

There are downsides, too. Being so small, she occasionally felt like she could never find a place on campus where she was alone. The food is meh and the maintenance staff needs to be frog-marched into the Sound.

I have filmed a lot of sports at Conn and it is like pulling teeth trying to get them to do anything sometimes. I haven't personally dealt with maintenance too much, but it seems like every decision made on campus has to be okayed by like 3 different people and everything takes forever.

When we film hockey there, we have to set up our camera in the same bleachers the crowd is jumping up and down on during the 3rd period. We asked about getting a table or something so the broadcast would be better (their student scorekeepers have one) but that got tied up in the bureaucracy somehow.

 

[Fishy]

I have filmed a lot of sports at Conn and it is like pulling teeth trying to get them to do anything sometimes. I haven't personally dealt with maintenance too much, but it seems like every decision made on campus has to be okayed by like 3 different people and everything takes forever.

When we film hockey there, we have to set up our camera in the same bleachers the crowd is jumping up and down on during the 3rd period. We asked about getting a table or something so the broadcast would be better (their student scorekeepers have one) but that got tied up in the bureaucracy somehow.

I honestly just think their maintenance department is bad. I feel like I could go there with five day laborers and be a 100% improvement.

Thanks Fishy. Will do. Appreciate it. We already noted the limited food options. But it’s valuable to know the “”schedule your test” is something happening in theory. Not usually.

What it’s really there for is finals. If a kid has two finals on the same day or if the finals schedule is somehow in conflict, they can reschedule; there are proctored rooms available and the student will be scheduled into one.

 

[WrenchFan69]

I work in the NESCAC. Awesome sporting environment but a huge investment in terms of time (and potentially money) compared to D1 club sports. An upper-echelon NESCAC education will likely provide awesome internship and employment opportunity down the line. Worth applying and see what they will give for financial aid. Trinity at $70k a year definitely is not worth it compared to UConn at $25k, but playing women's basketball for a Top 10 Amherst or Tufts or Bowdoin team for $20k/year would be realllly hard to turn down.

 

[giddyup]

My plan of sending daughter #1 to UConn is in danger of being derailed by the possibility of her playing D3 hoops. She's a 2024 and has interest from a few high academic schools in the NESCAC and NEWMAC.

Has anyone had kids that have played D3 hoops "locally"? Was the experience worth the extra $40-50k a year.

She's a huge sports fan and is torn about going to a D1 school (UConn, Clemson, UNC) and enjoying the sports environment and playing club hoops, trying to be a manager or something.... OR going small to continue playing on a real college team

I cant be the first to go through this... just looking for any insight

Any NESCAC puts your daughter in a fairly elite academic institution which will deliver a top notch education. If it’s Williams or Amherst you sell your right arm (assuming you want your kid to be set up pretty well for life… not guaranteed but the networks are outrageously good).

 

[HooperScooper]

I work in the NESCAC. Awesome sporting environment but a huge investment in terms of time (and potentially money) compared to D1 club sports. An upper-echelon NESCAC education will likely provide awesome internship and employment opportunity down the line. Worth applying and see what they will give for financial aid. Trinity at $70k a year definitely is not worth it compared to UConn at $25k, but playing women's basketball for a Top 10 Amherst or Tufts or Bowdoin team for $20k/year would be realllly hard to turn down.

I think you're using old numbers. Trinity is more like $83,000 a year. I'm not sure what the "General Fee" is but I didn't include that (could be student health insurance, which most families have covered already, and tuition insurance which many people waive).

Tuition & Fees - Admissions & Aid

Here is a breakdown of the undergraduate tuition costs and associated fees for an academic year. Remember, Trinity meets the calculated financial aid need of every student. 2023–2024 Academic Year Fall Term Spring Term Total Tuition $32,215 $32,215 $64,430 General Fee $1,280 $1,280 $2,560...

www.trincoll.edu

UConn is about $35,000 for in-state students.

2024-2025 Direct Costs and Cost of Attendance | Office of Student Financial Aid Services

2024-2025 Direct Costs These figures represent the typical tuition and fees and do not include financial aid or scholarships in the figures. This is only an ...

financialaid.uconn.edu

 

[The Yakk]

Some programs also offer partial scholarships/free books to the managers too. They also have 'practice player' spots for the basketball team that she might be interested in - assuming she would be qualified if shes being looked at for D3

I think the "practice players" for the UConn WBB team are dudes, though.

 

[huskypantz]

Lolz, it's about playing tough competition. There are great individual players in CT, outside of a few teams the competition is just bad. Playing against the best makes you better, there's plenty of prep options nearby which offer that.

I’m on soccer coach/parent forums (my daughter/team is U12). High school soccer is for playing with friends. They don’t need prep. It’s all about the clubs for competition and exposure.

 

[husky429]

I’m on soccer coach/parent forums (my daughter/team is U12). High school soccer is for playing with friends. They don’t need prep. It’s all about the clubs for competition and exposure.

I think this depends on the sport a bit. AAU is much less important for basketball, at least. I've heard about this for soccer though. No one cares about HS ball.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

My plan of sending daughter #1 to UConn is in danger of being derailed by the possibility of her playing D3 hoops. She's a 2024 and has interest from a few high academic schools in the NESCAC and NEWMAC.

Has anyone had kids that have played D3 hoops "locally"? Was the experience worth the extra $40-50k a year.

She's a huge sports fan and is torn about going to a D1 school (UConn, Clemson, UNC) and enjoying the sports environment and playing club hoops, trying to be a manager or something.... OR going small to continue playing on a real college team

I cant be the first to go through this... just looking for any insight

Have you looked at Connecticut College?

 

[upstater]

I’m on soccer coach/parent forums (my daughter/team is U12). High school soccer is for playing with friends. They don’t need prep. It’s all about the clubs for competition and exposure.

And even then, the clubs try to hard sell you into things like faraway showcases that don't really help.

It's on the parents to literally bring their kids to the college, maybe for camps, and to leave the coaches with video. Otherwise the chances of getting seen are minimal.

This even goes for Anson Dorrance at UNC. If people think the top coach in college soccer has the means to be thorough in his recruiting, well--he doesnt.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I have a buddy who went to BC I can ask him

 

[huskypantz]

And even then, the clubs try to hard sell you into things like faraway showcases that don't really help.

It's on the parents to literally bring their kids to the college, maybe for camps, and to leave the coaches with video. Otherwise the chances of getting seen are minimal.

This even goes for Anson Dorrance at UNC. If people think the top coach in college soccer has the means to be thorough in his recruiting, well--he doesnt.

Family friend’s’ daughter plays ECNL for CFC, she recently committed to Charlotte. If you’re playing elite club soccer, you get seen. To your point, the club costs really aren’t horrible for the year - it’s the travel to tournaments where you shell out the $$$ on family travel. There are also regional and individual college ID camps where you can get noticed. It’s not that high school soccer teams don’t have elite players, it’s just that most of those players honed their skills in club.

Differs by sport, of course - but that’s what I see as the path to college soccer.

 

[upstater]

Family friend’s’ daughter plays ECNL for CFC, she recently committed to Charlotte. If you’re playing elite club soccer, you get seen. To your point, the club costs really aren’t horrible for the year - it’s the travel to tournaments where you shell out the $$$ on family travel. There are also regional and individual college ID camps where you can get noticed. It’s not that high school soccer teams don’t have elite players, it’s just that most of those players honed their skills in club.

Differs by sport, of course - but that’s what I see as the path to college soccer.

We've gone through the whole ECNL and DA scene.

I know a kid who is on the USWNT for her age group.

She was not seen.

She was ECNL and even appeared in several games on ESPN. Did not have a single big college offer.

Dorrance was going to blow off the top 35 ECNL showcase game she was in (on ESPN), but decided with some fellow coaches to go at the last second. He thought his recruiting was done for the year. That's when he saw her. He was stunned that NONE of the other coaches had ever heard of her. This is a USWNT kid. She was also New York State Gatorade Player of the Year as a Junior.

I know a few D1 coaches who explain to me their paltry budgets. It's incumbent on the parents to get in contact with the coaches.

 

[husky429]

I know a few D1 coaches who explain to me their paltry budgets. It's incumbent on the parents to get in contact with the coaches.

I know D1 basketball coaches who sleep in their car orna friends house and then sneak into recruiting events because they can't afford them. Until you're at a P6 school, recruiting budgets are a pittance.

 

[upstater]

I know D1 basketball coaches who sleep in their car orna friends house and then sneak into recruiting events because they can't afford them. Until you're at a P6 school, recruiting budgets are a pittance.

Yep, the few HCs of soccer at D1 that I know are not at P6 schools. Obviously, the one coach I am describing here is (UNC) but this is how it is for most of them. They tell me they've recruited kids out of the MLS Academies sight unseen--and been very disappointed. They were hoping that was a way to bypass their recruiting problems, but instead MLS made things worse for them.

 

[huskypantz]

We've gone through the whole ECNL and DA scene.

I know a kid who is on the USWNT for her age group.

She was not seen.

She was ECNL and even appeared in several games on ESPN. Did not have a single big college offer.

Dorrance was going to blow off the top 35 ECNL showcase game she was in (on ESPN), but decided with some fellow coaches to go at the last second. He thought his recruiting was done for the year. That's when he saw her. He was stunned that NONE of the other coaches had ever heard of her. This is a USWNT kid. She was also New York State Gatorade Player of the Year as a Junior.

I know a few D1 coaches who explain to me their paltry budgets. It's incumbent on the parents to get in contact with the coaches.

That’s a crazy story. I will say that parents have an expectation that college coaches are attending these tournaments and they get upset when numbers are low. I’m a bit surprised that a quality ECNL player had no college interest. I’d question the club coach as well as they should be advocating, assuming it’s a goal of the player.