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OT: Diets

intlzncster

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I'm not a dr and I dont stay at holiday inn...but I've never heard that. Not sure how not eating makes you store fat. Fat storage is caused by too many calories and an insulin response..fasting lowers your insulin. When I fast, my glucose drops from 92-95 in the am, to low 80's within 12 hours and 70's within 24-30 hours. If I fast for 2 days, it's in the 60s by day 2.

I'm not a doctor either, but this is the idea (from Drs):

When you starve yourself for more than 12 hours, your metabolic rate actually goes down by 40 percent. Your body senses a dietary disaster and quickly goes into storage mode, rather than burning mode. That's the primary reason why deprivation diets don't work. Your body panics about going into a famine, so it slows metabolism into emergency-storing mode, rather than a steady state of burning. Breakfast eaters are on average thinner than those who skip breakfast because they keep their metabolism genes turned on, which means calories are more likely to be burned off before they can turn into fat.
...
Fasting can cause your body to store fat because when you don't eat, it perceives that you're starving. In defense, your body increases its ability to store calories as fat, so fewer calories go further. Unfortunately, once you start eating again, your body is primed to store any excess calories as fat. This "rebound" effect of fasting, or any kind of extreme caloric restriction, is one of the many reasons why a slow, steady approach to weight loss is the most effective one for the long term.

Here's a Web MD articles from their Director of Nutrition:

Diet Myth or Truth: Fasting Is Effective for Weight Loss
 
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Where did this whole carbs are the devil thing come from? Rice is bad for you is pure nonsense and as for fasting as a form of dieting, that's bad advice for most people IMO.
 
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Where did this whole carbs are the devil thing come from? Rice is bad for you is pure nonsense and as for fasting as a form of dieting, that's bad advice for most people IMO.

Someone mentioned that they are having trouble loosing the last 20...eating carbs is not going to help you loose weight. I said brown rice was less bad. If you are trying to cut weight..cutting carbs is a pretty basic concept. If you think refined carbs are good for you...good luck.
 
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Calling @FartMan69 to contribute.
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Where did this whole carbs are the devil thing come from? Rice is bad for you is pure nonsense and as for fasting as a form of dieting, that's bad advice for most people IMO.

Its coming from a lot of people, and all of the sudden. Perhaps a trend, perhaps not. I am not smart enough to have an answer, and I think a lot of people weighing in on this aren't smart enough to know for sure, either. I do think sugar is very bad for people, and from my very limited understanding, your body processes carbs similarly to sugar. There were a series of articles last year that caught my attention. Basically the sugar industry paid a few Harvard scientists to publish a study that exaggerated the harms of fat (especially saturated) and then the head of this study was one of the key guys establishing the food pyramid which proclaimed folks should eat 7 servings of grains (carbs) a day, or something like that. Here is a brief article. LINK

As I've said before, I think everything done in moderation is the best idea. I am not going to live a life where I deprive myself of pizza or pasta once in a while. But I can definitely say that my stomach feels far better after eliminating grains and I have a more consistent level of energy (no insulin crashes).
 
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My take is this. There are three main drivers - how you eat, how you drink and how active you are.

If you're really overweight, you need to address all three.
If you want to maintain, you need to focus on two of the three.

If you want to have a few drinks on the reg, then there has to be some exercise and diet consistency. If you don't like working out, you need to pay attention to what you're eating and drinking. It's not that complex.
 
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My take is this. There are three main drivers - how you eat, how you drink and how active you are.

If you're really overweight, you need to address all three.
If you want to maintain, you need to focus on two of the three.

If you want to have a few drinks on the reg, then there has to be some exercise and diet consistency. If you don't like working out, you need to pay attention to what you're eating and drinking. It's not that complex.

I think the main takeaway is that there are tons of different methods to losing weight and that different individuals will swear that their method is the secret to success, but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is calories in versus calories out.
 
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A daily slice of greasy pizza, or some breakfast home fries, along with a roll of AW, will resolve all your weight control issues.
 
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I think the main takeaway is that there are tons of different methods to losing weight and that different individuals will swear that their method is the secret to success, but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is calories in versus calories out.

You're right but it sort of drives me nuts to hear people on that "If It Fits Your Macros" sh__ talking about eating ice cream for dinner.

Just curious, how long did it take you with keto not to feel weaker in the gym or did you never experience that? I'm pretty strict in terms of diet for about 6.75 days of the week but I'm still a bowl of oatmeal before squats type guy.
 
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I have a question for all the Non Meat eaters..whether Vegetarian,Vegan,, etc...you all say you feel better which is great...but none of you talk about your diet before you switched....was it a healthy diet or were you eating a typical western diet? I know someone that won't eat meat, but she has no trouble eating chips, pasta and pizza...that's not healthy to me.

Vegetarian here, I've tried nearly every diet out there including paleo. I will say that I lost weight very quickly on paleo but always felt awful. The "low carb flu" never disappeared for me. For some it's a 1-3 week transition phase, for me it never went away. My exercise sessions (lifting, distance running, basketball and sprint workouts) were terrible, I had very low energy and often got headaches after working out.

I personally don't think it's possible to get enough protein if you only eat a plant based diet...but that's me.

I mentioned this earlier but vegetarianism opened my eyes to protein intake. When I started, the thing I was the most worried about was not getting enough protein. I've been following diet trends/fads/research for a long time and was always a high-protein disciple. This stuff has been beaten into our brains forever, especially as a former college athlete. Protein! Protein! Protein!

After six months of vegetarianism, my experience is that the amount of protein we need is really overstated. The long-standing "rule" of 1g protein per lbs of body weight is insanity to me now. I'm typically around 230 lbs, trying to eat 230g of protein a day was ridiculous. Even 175g a day was a challenge. Maybe if you're aiming to be a pro bodybuilder that makes sense. For us normal folks, that's way too much. I aim for 90g per day, which is easily attainable on a plant-based diet.

Rich Roll is one of my favorite plant-based guys to follow.

Rich Roll's Top-7 Sources of Plant-Based Protein | Rich Roll

Food Choices is a documentary on Netflix, that admittedly is slanted and at times feels like a promotional video for plant-based diets, but it's worth a watch if you're interested in diet/health.
 
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You're right but it sort of drives me nuts to hear people on that "If It Fits Your Macros" sh__ talking about eating ice cream for dinner.

Just curious, how long did it take you with keto not to feel weaker in the gym or did you never experience that? I'm pretty strict in terms of diet for about 6.75 days of the week but I'm still a bowl of oatmeal before squats type guy.

I am weaker. I don't think its a sustainable diet for me while I am trying to gain strength. I just have a small amount of stubborn fat I am trying to remove and keto is helping in that regard. In 6 weeks, most of my lifts have declined about 10 lbs, so not ideal.

After 4-5 days, I felt like absolute s___ and actually went to the doctor to get some blood work done. After 3 weeks I became fully acclimated and had a lot more energy to sustain myself throughout the workday without having crashes, but at the gym I would still notice a lack of strength. I'm also on a 500-1000 calorie deficit per day so that obviously affects me as well. I have never done keto on maintenance. I have to imagine that eating good carbs on a lift day is beneficial, and I will be getting back to that in about a month.

I think the benefit of keto is that is kills your appetite. Good for cutting but not good for anything else.
 

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I think the main takeaway is that there are tons of different methods to losing weight and that different individuals will swear that their method is the secret to success, but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is calories in versus calories out.
Yep. Math wins. Doesn't get any more or less complicated than that.
 
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Yep. Math wins. Doesn't get any more or less complicated than that.

Losing weight is simple math. Being healthy isn't. I don't think you can be fat and healthy but you can be skinny and unhealthy. That's where I get confused. I read about people on my keto diet raving about their health while they shave off pounds eating bunless Big Macs and just have to shake my head.
 
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Losing weight is simple math. Being healthy isn't. I don't think you can be fat and healthy but you can be skinny and unhealthy. That's where I get confused. I read about people on my keto diet raving about their health while they shave off pounds eating bunless Big Macs and just have to shake my head.

Reminds me of Hard Knocks years back where Chad Johnson and one of the assistant coaches are debating the impact of Chad's McDonald's-heavy diet. They were both saying, "we'll, you're burning all those calories off so it's fine" but both had a bit of a nervous/unsure tone. Curious to see how healthy he is on the inside despite having minimal body fat.
 

Fishy

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You ever been to the Mohonk Mountain House? Think it's crazy expensive to stay but could be a nice place for lunch.

We live in the Hudson Valley - we're members of the Preserve, the running club holds events over there, etc., so we're over in that general area a few times a month.

The Mountain House is crazy expensive.

At this time of year, you're spending $650 a night. During the summer...forget it.

Best bet - park at one of the trail heads and pay $15 for a Preserve day pass or park at the Mountain House and pay $21 for a pass if you want a shorter hike. Go through the Labyrinth and the Crevasse and then go to Sky Top.

Then....skip lunch at the Mountain House.

I am a lousy source of restaurant advice. Pizza is pizza to me. I don't like Italian food, don't care for steak and I don't have a favorite beer because beer all tastes like beer to me.

But I know German food because we grew up on it and I still really enjoy it. And there are two really great German restaurants on your way back out of New Paltz. There's the Mountain Brauhaus right on the corner of 44/55 and 299. And then there is perhaps my favorite restaurant, the GunkHaus. It's a few miles away down 44/55 on Maple Ave. (If anyone has heard of Hudson Bourbon, the distillery is right in that area as well and they also have a great restaurant with an amazing outdoor deck overlooking a mill creek.)

A starter....

Everyone In New York Should Try This Insane Hike At Least Once
 

Fishy

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.... but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is calories in versus calories out.

It really is just physics.

Burn more energy than you take in and you will lose weight. Burn less energy than you take in and you will store that energy as fat.
 

intlzncster

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I think the main takeaway is that there are tons of different methods to losing weight and that different individuals will swear that their method is the secret to success, but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is calories in versus calories out.

That's just losing weight though. Losing weight doesn't necessarily mean healthy. You could be nutritionally waaaay underserved and be losing pounds.

EDIT: I see you said the same thing a few posts down
 
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The best thing one can do to start a weight loss plan is have his resting metabolic rate checked. Everyone has a different rate. While people say it is simple math, it isn't the same math for each person. The guy that is always gaining weight even though he eats a very similar diet to his skinny buddy and they work out together daily has a slower metabolic rate (BMR). In order for him to lose weight he needs a better idea of his baseline. Some people have a a BMR of 700 calories per day and some are at 2300 calories per day. That is huge difference.

Counting calories is the best option because you can use a diet plan tailored to your BMR. If you have a BMR of 1000, a desk job and don't workout, you need to eat 1200-1500 calories to lose weight. Meanwhile, the guy with the 2300 BMR is literally starving to death.

BMR can be tested by doctors with the right equipment. There is a machine that you breathe into for about 10 minutes and it calculates calories being burned by the contents of your exhaled breath.

There was a doctor that put his weight loss patients on a 1200 calorie diet and kept them contained in his clinic for a long period of time. 1200 calories seems to be the magic number for men and women to lose weight no matter their BMR. Most men will succeed on 1500 calories as well. The doctor was asked what he could do for the people that still fail to lose weight even on a 1200 calorie diet. He said, " I've never come across anyone that doesn't lose weight on a 1200 calorie diet". The key is counting calories, if you don't lose weight at 1200, you are probably fudging the numbers. The issue is, that it takes a great deal of will power for people with a strong appetite to eat so little.

People cursed with a slow metabolism tend to feel hungry all the time and lack the energy to work out. That is typical of people with metabolic syndrome. They can't do what naturally thin people do. It doesn't work. Thin people that view overweight people as pigs that eat too much are completely ignorant to the biological reasons for it. Of course, lots of people have terrible eating habits and are fat because they eat terrible stuff. But at least half of people eat totally normal, healthy diets and are still obese.

Keto diets with high fat, high protein don't work for everyone, only people that handle it well. High fat causes weight gain in some people, just as high carb does in others. Different body types.

Another mind blower. Brown rice is likely less healthy than white rice. It has tons of phytic acid which blocks nutrient absorption, irritates the stomach and can cause inflammation.

This all brought to you by someone that eats 2000 calories per day, works out 4 times per week and never stops tinkering with it. I maintain a healthy weight based on the numbers but until I knew my BMR, it was way harder. Definitely worth getting the test done as is counting calories.
Also, if you go to a restricted calorie diet, you'll find that protein is what keeps you burning calories. 20g-30 of protein every 2-3 hours will usually keep the metabolism going. Protein shakes with low carbs and sugar and about 150 calories per shake are ideal.
 
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I am inclined to believe that calories in/calories out determines your weight. In fact I never heard anything to the contrary until about a month ago when I was listening to an econtalk episode where the guest said its not so simple. "It's biology, not physics." The guest is only a journalist and it is difficult to parse what he was saying in only one listen. I will say that IIFYM seems to be BS, I would personally prefer to eat more non-junk than less junk. This is likely common sense...

Gary Taubes on the Case Against Sugar | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty
 

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