Delany on BTN Live from MSG about Conference Expansion

[Sportsman5]

Some schools are just worth more than others, and Oklahoma fits in that category. They would bring money on the new media contract. Games against Nebraska every year and every once and a while conference games against Michigan, OSU and PSU that actually mean something makes for great TV (advertising dollars). The money making model for the Big10/BTN has to diversify, and the easiest way to do so is with advertising. Being the national name Oklahoma football is, the ad dollars when they play on the BTN would be tremendous.

As far as being isolated, this isn't a WVU type of problem. They have a former conference mate in Nebraska and are much closer to many of the Big10 schools as WVU is to the Big12 schools. The closest school to WVU is ISU, which is 862 miles by road. Big10 schools they are closer to than WVU is to ISU: Nebraska (454 mi), Iowa (675), Illinois (694 mi), Indiana (738 mi), Purdue (788 mi), Minnesota (804 mi), Northwestern (822) and Wisconsin (854 mi). That the entire western division of the Big10. That smallest distance really isn't that uncommon. Miami's closest teams is FSU (486 mi), Georgia Tech (667 mi) and Clemson (767 mi). Oklahoma and Nebraska have a relationship that dates back to 1920 and share a collegial and athletic partnership. Adding Oklahoma gives balance to the divisions. The East has three traditional anchors in Michigan, OSU and PSU while the West only has Nebraska (Wisconsin was the dregs until the mid '90's when Alvarez took over).

The academics may be an issue, but we aren't talking about a horrible school. They are on par with Nebraska and Kansas, but offer more in the ways of national exposure and money than KU.

Agree. Also, Oklahoma travels really well and that helps big schools to fill stadiums and arenas. This generates additional income that a school like Virginia won't add as much of.
Overall Oklahoma is a state flagship with really good football and basketball. It opens new markets and adds to the quality of sports content. Its a no brainer for the big 10 and is a great partner with uconn

 

[billybud]

Regionality still has its play.

UConn fits perfectly into any move to the northeast. There are differences in regions and UConn brings basketball, a place in or near New York for B1G alumni to see their teams, and brings hockey. And could, with augmentation, become a Minnesota type football program.

And, since the majority of a team's TV fans are not actual alumni, the ability to develop Tee shirt fans is important and UConn has that in their corner (see apparel sales).

If Delaney truly wants to go northeast, there is little competition that can equal UConn.

 

[TRest]

and have our lives back? I might have to talk to my wife for ! Let's agree to come up with something new to Kvetch about if we get out of the gulag - ok? It is clear most of us need something to bitch about as a matter of course.

Have you seen the basketball team?

 

[billybud]

Baseball has regional importance. It is much beloved in the ACC (90 combined World Series appearances), SEC, and in Texas and on the west coast.

Not so much in the Big Ten.

 

[billybud]

I have been thinking some about cable box numbers versus numbers actually watching a product.

At some point, markets, cable boxes, etc may become less important than having match ups that the nation and football fans want to watch.

Is a Rutgers-Indiana, or an ISU-Kansas a real national draw? In fact, is a Rutgers-Michigan or an ISU-Oklahoma a national draw?

The more unexciting match ups in a conference schedule, the fewer people actually tune in the channel to see the games. Loading up a conference with low draw games can be problematic. The B1G is already hearing from some of their fans about the quality of the Rutgers and Maryland teams on the schedule.

The SEC has prospered because so many of their games are between top 25 teams (nobody watches Ole Miss-Chattanooga or Florida-Vanderbilt). And the fans of one school adamantly watch the games of other conference teams...SEC-SEC-SEC

The ACC has some good match ups, but also has Wake vs Virginia or BC vs Cuse type matches. Until these programs improve, those match ups will not be a draw.

In the end, if you are selling programming that is watched, you will prevail. If your programming in the market does not compete well for eyes, you may not.

At some point, the possibility of developing watched rivalries, national audiences, marquee matches and conference interest must play in.

 

[Stinger92860]

You mean like the NFL?

 

[Chin Diesel]

Again, my own opinion, but I still think that OU and UConn will in the Big10 sooner than later. UConn for basketball, the NYC and NE, while OU adds to the national appeal with football.

Your optimism is greatly appreciated. Safe to say that when UConn does get in to the B1G, you'll always be welcome to tailgate at the Rent.

 

[billybud]

The Broncos-Steelers averaged 43 million viewers....compared to one of the top college games of a regular season
that might average 6 million.

The play off NFL games have averaged 36.5 million viewers.....

College ball is far, far behind on TV fandom.....maybe less so in the south, more so in the midwest

 

[junglehusky]

Missed opportunity - we shoulda had some students / alums show up behind JD wearing #UConn6thBorough T-shirts!

 

[junglehusky]

Lagavulin for me. Although Ardbeg is tasty.

Talisker Storm...

Heck if we get in I might even splurge on something closer to the $150 range.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Delany's true focus has always been on The ACC. His wet dream is a UNC/UVA combo, however The Heels are The ACC. I can't see any scenario short of total collapse that would cause them to walk out the door. Their alumni would burn Chapel Hill to the ground if they knew it's leadership sought membership in that Yankee Conference. UVA is less religious about the conference, but as a wealthy institution they are not motivated to act solely for financial reasons. The real targets should be VPI and GT. Both schools do not have century long attachments to the conference, and are more in line with the research oriented state schools of the B1G. Inclusion also brings the conference into large population states for cable boxes and recruiting students and student athletes. This scenario would work out well for UCONN. Should Delany succeed in shaking one loose, he'd have a willing and ready partner in CT. Should he land both UCONN would have to be tapped by ESPN for ACC inclusion. Either way The AAC Nightnare would be over.

I also believe that 20 members is B1G's end game and that ideally the B1G 'surrounds' the NYC and DC markets by adding UConn and UVA or V Tech. I also agree that the B1G really wants a school in the Atlanta area and G Tech is the logical target. That said, without both a VA and NC school, G Tech would be out an island and while being contiguous is not a pass/fail issue, it is a concern. I think that after getting to 16 with a UConn and a VA school, the B1G will take the best 4 from the conference that does succumb - ACC (UNC, Duke, G Tech & FSU) or XII (Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas & ?).

 

[Rappin'Rodney]

I have been thinking some about cable box numbers versus numbers actually watching a product.

This is the exact phrase out of Bob Iger's mouth before he denied John Swofford's demands for a conference network.

 

[dwalks93]

Some schools are just worth more than others, and Oklahoma fits in that category. They would bring money on the new media contract. Games against Nebraska every year and every once and a while conference games against Michigan, OSU and PSU that actually mean something makes for great TV (advertising dollars). The money making model for the Big10/BTN has to diversify, and the easiest way to do so is with advertising. Being the national name Oklahoma football is, the ad dollars when they play on the BTN would be tremendous.

As far as being isolated, this isn't a WVU type of problem. They have a former conference mate in Nebraska and are much closer to many of the Big10 schools as WVU is to the Big12 schools. The closest school to WVU is ISU, which is 862 miles by road. Big10 schools they are closer to than WVU is to ISU: Nebraska (454 mi), Iowa (675), Illinois (694 mi), Indiana (738 mi), Purdue (788 mi), Minnesota (804 mi), Northwestern (822) and Wisconsin (854 mi). That the entire western division of the Big10. That smallest distance really isn't that uncommon. Miami's closest teams is FSU (486 mi), Georgia Tech (667 mi) and Clemson (767 mi). Oklahoma and Nebraska have a relationship that dates back to 1920 and share a collegial and athletic partnership. Adding Oklahoma gives balance to the divisions. The East has three traditional anchors in Michigan, OSU and PSU while the West only has Nebraska (Wisconsin was the dregs until the mid '90's when Alvarez took over).

The academics may be an issue, but we aren't talking about a horrible school. They are on par with Nebraska and Kansas, but offer more in the ways of national exposure and money than KU.

There cannot be a doubt OU to the Big10 would be an attractive opportunity. But I am not sure OU is really serious about leaving the B12.

Throughout all of the prior conference realignment, an "anchor program" has yet to defect (I am not counting the Big East since that wasn't a traditional P5 conference.) We have yet to see a team like OSU/UM, Alabama/UF, UNC/FSU, UCLA/Stanford or OU/UT depart. OU is an anchor in the Big12. OU could make more money in the Big10 but the Big10's anchor programs are OSU/UM. Does OU want to be be just another school in the Big10?

Boren's public statement shows he wants more of a leadership role for OU. OU will not have that in the Big10. The Big10 has repeated stated history and tradition are very important...that history and tradition runs through Ann Arbor and Columbus, not some "new guy" in Norman, OK.

The only way OU bolts to the B10 is if the Big12 does not allow them more influence and the conference remains a fiefdom primarily controlled by UT. At that point the B12 will crumble and all the programs with options will bolt but that will take at least a couple years.

It is more likely OU is using the B10 as leverage for more control in the B12 than OU is truly serious about departing. Last realignment cycle we witnessed several program which threatened to leave but did not actually leave. In fact, as FSU/Clemson proved, threatening to leave is more an indication of a power grab than a desire to leave. The teams that actually bolted usually pulled up a moving van in the middle of the night and left a note on the door saying "we are out."

 

[Matrim55]

Talisker Storm...

Heck if we get in I might even splurge on something closer to the $150 range.

That's Ardbog's price point. Worth every penny.

Also recommend Caol Ila 25, though to be honest I like the 18 better.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I'm probably nitpicking here, but how is this an example of "irony"?

Only in the Alanis Morissette sense of the word.

If the B1G is serious about northeast expansion, they'll take UConn and Virginia to get 16. That locks up the megalopolis from NYC to DC, with reach into New England.

That said, if they're ambivalent about where they expand and don't want to double down on the northeast, Oklahoma is a much more attractive property in the college sports landscape than either of those. And if they care about contiguity, Kansas+Oklahoma is probably more valuable than UConn+Virginia.

 

[Ldandy]

Some schools are just worth more than others, and Oklahoma fits in that category. They would bring money on the new media contract. Games against Nebraska every year and every once and a while conference games against Michigan, OSU and PSU that actually mean something makes for great TV (advertising dollars). The money making model for the Big10/BTN has to diversify, and the easiest way to do so is with advertising. Being the national name Oklahoma football is, the ad dollars when they play on the BTN would be tremendous.

As far as being isolated, this isn't a WVU type of problem. They have a former conference mate in Nebraska and are much closer to many of the Big10 schools as WVU is to the Big12 schools. The closest school to WVU is ISU, which is 862 miles by road. Big10 schools they are closer to than WVU is to ISU: Nebraska (454 mi), Iowa (675), Illinois (694 mi), Indiana (738 mi), Purdue (788 mi), Minnesota (804 mi), Northwestern (822) and Wisconsin (854 mi). That the entire western division of the Big10. That smallest distance really isn't that uncommon. Miami's closest teams is FSU (486 mi), Georgia Tech (667 mi) and Clemson (767 mi). Oklahoma and Nebraska have a relationship that dates back to 1920 and share a collegial and athletic partnership. Adding Oklahoma gives balance to the divisions. The East has three traditional anchors in Michigan, OSU and PSU while the West only has Nebraska (Wisconsin was the dregs until the mid '90's when Alvarez took over).

The academics may be an issue, but we aren't talking about a horrible school. They are on par with Nebraska and Kansas, but offer more in the ways of national exposure and money than KU.

I'm a B1G Alum but in no way am I an academic snob. The problem is that these decisions are made by people who are. I love OU. I understand that they carry a great brand. I would love to see the strength of the conference evened out a bit between East and West as the conference skews badly to The East. That said does the President of Wisconsin or Illinois care about that? I'm not so sure. If OU was invited with Kansas or UCONN or whomever I'd be fine with it, but there were windows of opportunity in the past where OU, MU, and KU all could have potentially been absorbed by The B1G but they passed. Prior to the formation of the B1G 12 and again later in 2010 The B1G probably could have grabbed them all. When rubber hit the road they took Nebraska to go to 12 and didn't seem to place much value in the rest. Maybe things are different now, but I can't help but think Big Jim wants East Coast properties only.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I think B1G's academic leaders want nothing to do with breaking up a conference. Hence, just Nebraska.

However... If Oklahoma is ready to break loose regardless, it could be that stuff we (mostly) don't know about could lead to an invite.

 

[dayooper]

I'm a B1G Alum but in no way am I an academic snob. The problem is that these decisions are made by people who are. I love OU. I understand that they carry a great brand. I would love to see the strength of the conference evened out a bit between East and West as the conference skews badly to The East. That said does the President of Wisconsin or Illinois care about that? I'm not so sure. If OU was invited with Kansas or UCONN or whomever I'd be fine with it, but there were windows of opportunity in the past where OU, MU, and KU all could have potentially been absorbed by The B1G but they passed. Prior to the formation of the B1G 12 and again later in 2010 The B1G probably could have grabbed them all. When rubber hit the road they took Nebraska to go to 12 and didn't seem to place much value in the rest. Maybe things are different now, but I can't help but think Big Jim wants East Coast properties only.

I do think that The Big10 Presidents want the East Coast. I also think they aren't attainable at this point and the Big10 knows it. They are locked in to the ACC and ESPN wants to keep them that way. I'm not so sure about the Big12. From what I understand, if OU was willing to move without OSU, they would have been in the Big10 already. In fact, there are reports that 5 current and former Big12 schools (Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M and Iowa State) explored joining the Big10 in 2010, but couldn't come to a financial agreement. The report said that the Big10 presidents were receptive to the move. The Big10 has done it's homework on Oklahoma already.

As for the East Coast, if they can't get an ACC school to leave (or if media partner ESPN pushed back during their negotiations) the only way they can increase their tier 1 media contract is with big names. Oklahoma is the only football program they can get that can get the job done. The presidents of Wisconsin and Illinois care about top students coming to their universities. More attention to Big10 schools via The BTN or ABC/Fox brings in better students. If UNC/UVA/GT aren't willing to move, you have to go on to the next best thing.

Then again, I could completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time (ask my wife) and it won't be the last. Ldandy brings up very valid points.

 

[FDNY99]

I do think that The Big10 Presidents want the East Coast. I also think they aren't attainable at this point and the Big10 knows it. They are locked in to the ACC and ESPN wants to keep them that way. I'm not so sure about the Big12. From what I understand, if OU was willing to move without OSU, they would have been in the Big10 already. In fact, there are reports that 5 current and former Big12 schools (Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M and Iowa State) explored joining the Big10 in 2010, but couldn't come to a financial agreement. The report said that the Big10 presidents were receptive to the move. The Big10 has done it's homework on Oklahoma already.

As for the East Coast, if they can't get an ACC school to leave (or if media partner ESPN pushed back during their negotiations) the only way they can increase their tier 1 media contract is with big names. Oklahoma is the only football program they can get that can get the job done. The presidents of Wisconsin and Illinois care about top students coming to their universities. More attention to Big10 schools via The BTN or ABC/Fox brings in better students. If UNC/UVA/GT aren't willing to move, you have to go on to the next best thing.

Then again, I could completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time (ask my wife) and it won't be the last. Ldandy brings up very valid points.

What would it mean if Barry Alvarez, Warde Manuel and Gene Smith all went to their respective Presidents and backed UConn for B1G membership...is that enough to get it done?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I think B1G's academic leaders want nothing to do with breaking up a conference. Hence, just Nebraska.

However... If Oklahoma is ready to break loose regardless, it could be that stuff we (mostly) don't know about could lead to an invite.

Which is basically what happened with Maryland as they bolted for a conference offering more money due to their internal financial issues.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

What would it mean if Barry Alvarez, Warde Manuel and Gene Smith all went to their respective Presidents and backed UConn for B1G membership...is that enough to get it done?

I think UConn has the support of the B1G; but, UConn needs a partner. Thus question 1 is who that partner is and question 2 is if both Kansas and Oklahoma are available, which combination of the 3 programs yields the best pair for the B1G. It call comes down to which metrics does the B1G value the most.

Luckily for UConn, 1) being blackballed in the B1G does not seem to be an issue versus the politics inside of the ACC and 2) UConn seems to have a President who is very aware of all of the metrics and is doing everything possible to improve them on the field and in the classroom and research lab.

 

[businesslawyer]

There cannot be a doubt OU to the Big10 would be an attractive opportunity. But I am not sure OU is really serious about leaving the B12.

Throughout all of the prior conference realignment, an "anchor program" has yet to defect (I am not counting the Big East since that wasn't a traditional P5 conference.) We have yet to see a team like OSU/UM, Alabama/UF, UNC/FSU, UCLA/Stanford or OU/UT depart. OU is an anchor in the Big12. OU could make more money in the Big10 but the Big10's anchor programs are OSU/UM. Does OU want to be be just another school in the Big10?

Boren's public statement shows he wants more of a leadership role for OU. OU will not have that in the Big10. The Big10 has repeated stated history and tradition are very important...that history and tradition runs through Ann Arbor and Columbus, not some "new guy" in Norman, OK.

The only way OU bolts to the B10 is if the Big12 does not allow them more influence and the conference remains a fiefdom primarily controlled by UT. At that point the B12 will crumble and all the programs with options will bolt but that will take at least a couple years.

It is more likely OU is using the B10 as leverage for more control in the B12 than OU is truly serious about departing. Last realignment cycle we witnessed several program which threatened to leave but did not actually leave. In fact, as FSU/Clemson proved, threatening to leave is more an indication of a power grab than a desire to leave. The teams that actually bolted usually pulled up a moving van in the middle of the night and left a note on the door saying "we are out."

1. Nebraska.
2. Miami (notwithstanding your definitional exclusion).

 

[pj]

I do think that The Big10 Presidents want the East Coast. I also think they aren't attainable at this point and the Big10 knows it. They are locked in to the ACC and ESPN wants to keep them that way. I'm not so sure about the Big12. From what I understand, if OU was willing to move without OSU, they would have been in the Big10 already. In fact, there are reports that 5 current and former Big12 schools (Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M and Iowa State) explored joining the Big10 in 2010, but couldn't come to a financial agreement. The report said that the Big10 presidents were receptive to the move. The Big10 has done it's homework on Oklahoma already.

As for the East Coast, if they can't get an ACC school to leave (or if media partner ESPN pushed back during their negotiations) the only way they can increase their tier 1 media contract is with big names. Oklahoma is the only football program they can get that can get the job done. The presidents of Wisconsin and Illinois care about top students coming to their universities. More attention to Big10 schools via The BTN or ABC/Fox brings in better students. If UNC/UVA/GT aren't willing to move, you have to go on to the next best thing.

Then again, I could completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time (ask my wife) and it won't be the last. Ldandy brings up very valid points.

I'm of the same mind. ESPN won't allow an ACC team to be taken and holds the cards (bidding on the B1G contract) to get its way.

That means UConn is the only available east coast property.

Texas is also in the ESPN orbit and won't be available. That leaves Oklahoma and Kansas as the only attractive properties available. Of those three, the ranking is probably Oklahoma and UConn ahead of Kansas, though Kansas is deserving too.

Oklahoma State is probably attractive enough to get an SEC bid if the B12 breaks up, so I don't think the sister would be a major issue.

But, if in order to escape the B12 GoR you had to assemble a critical mass of B12 teams, I could see Oklahoma and Kansas going together to the B1G.

 

[dwalks93]

The Big10 has already been shown to be a financial winner and its model is superior to the ACCs and Big12s. The traditional tobacco road schools and UVa may not jump to the Big10 (or maybe they will?) but Va Tech and GT seem like strong possibilities.

But the above ACC schools aren't fully on the table until 2026 when the ACC GOR agreement expires....link below...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...r/22116192/acc-approving-grant-of-rights-deal

As for OU and Big12 schools they are bound by the same type GOR agreement through 2024/2025....link below

https://www.comcastspotlight.com/ne...-12-sign-new-rights-agreement-through-2024-25

Attached below is a good article on the legality of GORs and the likely outcome if they were challenged (and yes UConn is cited in the history). The article believes GORs may be challengeable and would likely not be fully enforced but shows how messy the legal process will become. Probably the best point of the article is based on prior realignment lawsuits ( like when Maryland left the ACC) conferences do not want the negative attention associated with public lawsuits.

IMO the Big10 won't touch ACC or Big12 teams unless the GOR issue is resolved or the GORs expire. The ACC is not afraid to look like a predator but the Big10 has always carried itself with a little more dignity. My guess is the ACC and B12 will try to poach each others teams and that is where the GOR issue will be resolved (if it is challenged at all)

http://sportspolitico.com/2015/02/16/will-grant-of-rights-protect-big12-from-future-raids/

 

[dwalks93]

1. Nebraska.
2. Miami (notwithstanding your definitional exclusion).

Yeah I guess we can debate what is an "anchor program" but your point is well taken.

Nebraska's stock seems to have dropped a little since they left the Big12 but even when they departed they were probably behind UT and OU in influence. I can't recall whether the Nebraska's departure was in response to a public demand for more control or whether were they just fed up with Texas? TA&M was also a big loss but I still think the B12 leaders during the prior B12 departures were:
1. UT
2. UT
3. UT
4. OU in that order. BTW that ranking still has not changed

When Miami left the Big East it was clearly "the" anchor program but the Big East was a bizarre model which was probably doomed. It is hard to apply the Big East model to modern P5 conferences.