Discussion in 'Pro Sports (baseball, etc)' started by G0UCONN, Sep 16, 2016.
On NESN. Excellent show. Must see TV for Sox fans. Greatest Red Sox ever.
I'm just sticking around to see what Mau's reaction is
Please, Greatest Red Sox ever? Ted Williams missed 5-6 seasons in WWII and the Korean War. He would have blown away all homer records and a bunch of other records.
I'll take Ortiz.
Love ya but wow! Crazy
Thats' like Giant fans saying Bonds is the greatest ever with Mays. One being an all time great the other an all time cheating DH. There you have my reaction Stair!
Big Papi: The Factual Journey
Why Has David Ortiz Gotten A Free Pass From The PED Witch Hunt?
I assume basically 100% of players did them and know Ortiz did.
Same with Olympians and cyclists etc. I am pretty sure almost everyone does or did them.
I don't really care. I vote them into HOF based on what they did on field. Meaning AROD, Bonds, Clemens etc are HOFers to me. And Ortiz too.
Truth is he still is and the numbers are crazy and pointing straight at him. Good for him he got away with it somehow, but he is Jeff Bagel period! But not as good because he only hit. Sorry but I'm better with none of them getting in, too obvious of an advantage over the players of yesteryear and lets not talk about speed and stuff, no comparison.
I'm good with your opinion why not, he's yours. But the game is changed way too much by this stuff and I just don't see how they can be in the same HOF.
The HOF doesn't, and was never intended to, compare players across eras. The best players of each era deserve to be in.
Nah obvious cheaters don't - none of them. Rog, Barry, ARod and all. Just not baseball.
I don't agree that the ultimate arbiter of a players career is a museum. Obviously tons of players had different priorities and maybe playing the game and being good at it takes precedence. These things are measurable by stats, wins and losses and championships. Never saw Ted Williams play, David Ortiz is the greatest clutch hitter I've ever seen. I've got Pedro in front for Best Red Sox player I've ever seen but via longevity Ortiz has a very good case.
The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum is an American history museum and hall of fame, located at 25 Main Street in Cooperstown, New York, and operated by private interests. It serves as the central point for the study of the history of baseball in the United States and beyond, displays baseball-related artifacts and exhibits, and honors those who have excelled in playing, managing, and serving the sport.
Anyone who does not think steroid users and Pete Rose belong in the hall of fame have zero idea what the hall of fame is. They are part of the history and story of the game. No "study" of the game or historical view of the game would be complete without them.
At this point the HOF thing is about old vs new and baseball's old legacy of stats being burnt to the ground by the steroid era. And that his is exacerbated by new stats/sabermetrics. Because 2 of the biggest 3 stats in baseball (HR in season, All-time HR King) were rendered meaningless by steroids (I think JoeD's hitting streak is one still standing), the only recourse for the crowd that revered traditional stats is to keep anyone with a whiff of steroid suspicion out of the HOF. Until they come for their money I think its a hollow victory. But since it is somewhat satisfying in the case of the extreme headline cheaters that broke the hallowed records in Barry Bonds, Sosa & McGuire it applies for all.
"Please, Greatest Red Sox ever? Ted Williams missed 5-6 seasons in WWII and the Korean War. He would have blown away all homer records and a bunch of other records."
No doubt that Ted Williams was the greatest Red Sox hitter ever but Go said the Greatest Red Sox ever. With Ted and all of his great years we never won a World Series. In fact Ted flopped in his only appearance. With big Papi we have had three and counting. I get why Go feels the way he does.
The numbers in that article don't lie unless somehow he is the only one to suddenly become a player. He was at a homer dome prior to hooking up with Manny and hit how many?
Great clutch hitter, turned into a better hitter smarter hitter but so did ARod, Palmiero ,Bagwell and all the others. Hey Piazza got in they must be getting soft. He will probably get in at some point as they will open the doors to all of those guys I'm guessing as voters change.
If I were a Sox fan I would defend him too. But it is what it is.
Yep...two different things.
Ted Williams is the greatest Red Sox hitter ever, maybe the best ever behind Ruth.
Ortiz is the greatest clutch hitter in Sox history and second greatest Sox hitter ever.
I figured the Ortiz PED stuff would be toned down a bit once Gary Sanchez starting playing at the greatest clip ever.....but he's clean, no doubt apparently, right?
Here's an idea. Just shut the entire HOF down. I've been to Cooperstown, it's nice. But who gives a F___ anymore. Maybe I'm just too into team success and not individual success. I love everything Ortiz has done for the Sox but I don't give a rats ass if he never ends up in the HOF. Sort of like when I was a kid I used to care about whether or not my team had a cy young or MVP. I mean it's good argument stuff but I honestly I could care less anymore.
Maybe I got detached from the individual player when Damon went to NY. Or maybe it's the 10 championships between the Sox/Giants/UConn...to me it's just about the team. I'll root for the individuals and love what they do and I hope they stay til they suck, but after that, who gives a F___
Just win. Ortiz is a beast. He turned the entire Sox/Yankees rivalry on its head and won 3 and maybe 4 rings doing it. That's all that matters to me. Not Cooperstown.
Not sure I said that anywhere did I Vike - please refresh my memory on Sanchez show me where I said he wasn't using anything? Reality is there is no way on earth a guy on my team, your team or anyone's can do what he's doing without wondering. Cookie, JBjr or Sanchez all in the same boat - How's that? Anything to deflect from the guy you love so much huh? Nice try though look at the numbers they jump out like a sore thumb and I know it hurts. too bad he's the same guy as ARod as I told you all along sorry to ruin your day.
I never said you said Sanchez uses - But you don't have to be 40 to be hitting like you're using PED's.....you can get called up from the minors and hit 19 HR's in 43 games....
Believe me, you're not ruining my day. I'm loving baseball right now.
What am I stupid, that wasn't sarcastic about Sanchez? Of course you don't need to be 40 there's a ton of guys coming up and guys who are playing who are lucky to be in the majors. But you asked I answered, I would never say never to Sanchez as a matter of fact he falls into the same "Guilty until proven innocent" based on MLB's neglect.
I really enjoyed baseball too and I still am as we had zero and just hanging like snots. Won't make it but the fact they're close makes it fun considering what we got rid of.
You guys should be enamored, now it seem Price is starting to look better and even rat face had another nice game. Need the arms to be good to move along because Lord knows you can hit.
I guess if the thought is that you have to assume everyone is using thiese days, then on an even playing field Sanchez and Ortiz are exceeding.
I know you aren't a kid but are you old enough to have seen Ted Williams? There is really no way to explain what an incredible hitter he was....best in history on any team and he never had near the protection as Ortiz. It was an event if he struck out. Defensive shift was invented for Williams.
Not knocking Ortiz whose clutch hitting continues to amaze me.
Derek Jeter did them?
Most importantly aside from this BS, your nephew a thrower or a good stick? Impressive finalists vying of this services, good luck to him should be an exciting adventure for the whole family. Any knocks on the minor league doors this year or just waiting?
Way to give him the benefit of the doubt though. Classy.
Why should he be given that benefit? Mike Piazza had to wait to get in the Hall of Fame with his numbers as a catcher while Jeff Bagwell is denied the Hall with his. These two never failed a drug test.
Considering that the other names that leaked with Ortiz turned out to be true, why should Ortiz get a pass?
I guess we will never know about Piazza, Bagwell and others from that era. MLB didn't start testing until 2004 so given their physical changes and types of injuries they will be suspected, particularly Bagwell. I hope the testing deters players now but it probably hasn't caught up with the users secret formulas in many sports. So who knows. But with players that kept playing through that era without major changes in their size and performance I have less of a suspicion. The article only discusses that Ortiz's numbers got better as he got older and that coincides with other on steroids. It's one angle. It could be but players like Ortiz are drawing a lot of attention towards use and are tested accordingly. If he is willing to take that chance he risks everything. Could be. I didn't mean anything against Mau and like his posts but the OP set up a nice thread about his last year and by the 5th post there's a link to the article. I suppose that's what it's going to be like for Ortiz.
I don't like the guy think he's a phony and a cheat and whether you believe it or not he's not considered with the likes of Bagwell, Piazza and the others. Sounds to me like most give him the benefit of the doubt except Shaunessey who was the smart one. Top it off with the fact they are all tested and they're all still getting away with it, not their fault.
Agree maybe not the thread to have thrown it in my bad, sorry. Have your fun with the DH who doesn't run out ground balls LOL
I need to make all of you guys laugh a little and this is true, believe it or not. I will preface by saying minus the Papster, I don't mind this team at all. This isn't the team of the past with Youk, Kapler, Millar, the Schill and a bunch of unlikable idiots, they have some young kids who are coming into their own and while I don't openly "like" them I respect their games in a big way. (could do without the stupid crap in the OF after a win, ridiculous but it's their thing. Should be football players though lol). Still they are the Sox.
But know this, if they somehow end up playing the Blue Jays, mau will be rooting for the Sox although you will only hear about it and see it here now. I will want Papi to go 0-fer-20 but the rest to have career series against that classless group of arrogant cheat a**es. Too much posing and passion on that jays team to like many of them at all.
So good luck to the Sox fans, if you play the Jays!
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