Ciera Johnson to Louisville

[JoePgh]

Sorry, I meant the previous post to be on the thread about South Carolina and Dawn Staley ' s comments about the new season.

 

[willtalk]

I think everyone wants to find the key to achieving what Geno has done, but Walz is certainly not taking the route of Geno on this one. I've noted for years Geno seldom keeps over 10 to 12 on his roster. I'm a bit concerned, but I'm certainly not one to question anything Walz does. He's no Geno YET, but we're hopeful, if another Geno and UConn can step forward it will be Louisville.

No he is no Geno! I don't think he ever will be. He might be a successful coach but their philosophies are entirely different. I believe Geno always considers long term affects and consequences in his recruiting, which I do not believe Waltz does. Also WCBB is changing and it is becoming more and more less likely that one team will ever dominate like UConn has.

 

[southie]

Never saw any reports that she took any other official visits. Very unusual if she waited all the way until early October to take her one and only official visit (and not already having been committed to said school).

 

[UConnCat]

Former UCF guard Briahana Jackson announced as part of Louisville's 2015-2016 team though the roster on the web site has not been updated. Jackson scored 28 points against UConn as a sophomore and shortly thereafter left UCF for "personal reasons." She's a talented guard, what one might call a high volume shooter who turns the ball over a lot more than she makes assists to teammates. I guess she'll have 2 years of eligibility for Louisville. The Louisville backcourt also includes Durr, Cole, Carter and Jones (3 FR and 1 SO).

 

[Fightin Choke]

Former UCF guard Briahana Jackson announced as part of Louisville's 2015-2016 team though the roster on the web site has not been updated. Jackson scored 28 points against UConn as a sophomore and shortly thereafter left UCF for "personal reasons." She's a talented guard, what one might call a high volume shooter who turns the ball over a lot more than she makes assists to teammates. I guess she'll have 2 years of eligibility for Louisville. The Louisville backcourt also includes Durr, Cole, Carter and Jones (3 FR and 1 SO).

And with Briahana Jackson joining the team, the 2016-17 version of the team will have 16 players. Clearly Jeff is over-recruiting, SEC football style. They will have 2 seniors that year (Walton and Jackson), 2 juniors (Moore and Hines-Allen), 6 sophomores (this year's freshmen class + Sydney Brackemyre) and the 5 HS seniors he just recruited. The prevailing thinking over on the Louisville board is that the competition will be good and only the strong will survive. (I want to point out that some fans are anxious about the over-recruiting, including 4evercard who posts some here (see above on this thread). But the thinking is that Jeff knows what he's doing.)

 

[EricLA]

And with Briahana Jackson joining the team, the 2016-17 version of the team will have 16 players. Clearly Jeff is over-recruiting, SEC football style. They will have 2 seniors that year (Walton and Jackson), 2 juniors (Moore and Hines-Allen), 6 sophomores (this year's freshmen class + Sydney Brackemyre) and the 5 HS seniors he just recruited. The prevailing thinking over on the Louisville board is that the competition will be good and only the strong will survive. (I want to point out that some fans are anxious about the over-recruiting, including 4evercard who posts some here (see above on this thread). But the thinking is that Jeff knows what he's doing.)

I have mixed feelings about over recruiting like that. I know UCONN doesn't do that but...

We had Engeln, Johnson, and Banks all leave for more PT at other schools. I'm a big fan of playing the best players in big games and developing them the most, and do not worry when non starters transfer. I'm not saying I'm happy about it - I root for the kids no matter where they go and hope they are happy, but losing those 3 did nothing to derail UCONN's 3 recent NC's...

Having said that, UCONN has rarely had more than 11-12 scholly players on the team at any given time. It seems unfair to the kids at L'ville, but... they know who's committed/verbaled and they know how many players are there. If we can do the math, so can they.

 

[Fightin Choke]

I have mixed feelings about over recruiting like that. I know UCONN doesn't do that but...

We had Engeln, Johnson, and Banks all leave for more PT at other schools. I'm a big fan of playing the best players in big games and developing them the most, and do not worry when non starters transfer. I'm not saying I'm happy about it - I root for the kids no matter where they go and hope they are happy, but losing those 3 did nothing to derail UCONN's 3 recent NC's...

Having said that, UCONN has rarely had more than 11-12 scholly players on the team at any given time. It seems unfair to the kids at L'ville, but... they know who's committed/verbaled and they know how many players are there. If we can do the math, so can they.

No, you are comparing apples and oranges. Geno is not over-recruiting at all! While it's unfortunate that UConn has had women transfer, the decision has been the choice of the transfer. At Louisville, it is pretty clear that Jeff is planning on some of his presently committed players not having their scholarships renewed, as they are too few spots for players already. While few players will ever volunteer that they were kicked off the team, it is pretty clear that he is planning to eliminate the dead wood once he sees how they develop. Geno NEVER had to clear space to sign anyone, so it's a completely different animal. It seems as if Jeff is telling each recruit that they are the missing piece, when it is clear that these players cannot all be THE missing piece.

In regards to your statement that the players know who is committed and such, that is not completely true. If you are an incoming freshman, you may not have known that Jeff would do this with the class following you. After you sign your LOI, you are committed.

 

[CocoHusky]

I have mixed feelings about over recruiting like that. I know UCONN doesn't do that but...

Eric there should be no but... when it comes to UCONN and over recruiting! For two full season now thank goodness we were able to find two quality young ladies as walkons. There were plenty of players available JUCO, transfers, top 50 ESPN or what ever who could have capably filled those positions if UCONN were in an OVER recruiting mind set.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

No, you are comparing apples and oranges. Geno is not over-recruiting at all! While it's unfortunate that UConn has had women transfer, the decision has been the choice of the transfer. At Louisville, it is pretty clear that Jeff is planning on some of his presently committed players not having their scholarships renewed, as they are too few spots for players already. While few players will ever volunteer that they were kicked off the team, it is pretty clear that he is planning to eliminate the dead wood once he sees how they develop. Geno NEVER had to clear space to sign anyone, so it's a completely different animal. It seems as if Jeff is telling each recruit that they are the missing piece, when it is clear that these players cannot all be THE missing piece.

In regards to your statement that the players know who is committed and such, that is not completely true. If you are an incoming freshman, you may not have known that Jeff would do this with the class following you. After you sign your LOI, you are committed.

I could not have said it better. Now, that could be taken as damning with faint praise, but that was pretty spot on Choke.

 

[Raoul]

And with Briahana Jackson joining the team, the 2016-17 version of the team will have 16 players. Clearly Jeff is over-recruiting, SEC football style. They will have 2 seniors that year (Walton and Jackson), 2 juniors (Moore and Hines-Allen), 6 sophomores (this year's freshmen class + Sydney Brackemyre) and the 5 HS seniors he just recruited. The prevailing thinking over on the Louisville board is that the competition will be good and only the strong will survive. (I want to point out that some fans are anxious about the over-recruiting, including 4evercard who posts some here (see above on this thread). But the thinking is that Jeff knows what he's doing.)

I think you're overstating things a bit with the comparison to SEC football–style oversigning. Walton is actually a RS junior this year, and she already has a bachelor's degree from Louisville and is now working on a master's. There would nothing untoward with Walz at the end of the 2015-16 season congratulating her on her four years on the Louisville team and not giving her a fifth year. This is a common practice across all sports, at numerous schools, in various conferences.

 

[4evercard]

HTo clarify my opinion, while I'm not keen on the purpose of over recruiting, meaning I prefer doing more in the numbers Geno does, I cannot say the path Walz is taking is likely to cause any dissent. Walz has had plenty of transfers in the first five or so years at Louisville and it's not been a problem. However, Walz is recruiting at a much higher level in the last three classes. With 11 players in the last two classes, both extremely high rated classes, there WILL BE transfers. Irregardless of the upgrading of the talent at Louisville, Walz is still short on the quality of the first five or ten of a typical UConn team, but maybe he's hoping the overall competition of so much talent will narrow the divide between his top talent and Geno's. Who knows? Like someone on here mentioned these kids know what the numbers are when they sign on.

BTW, for this coming season, Louisville will have only 11 players on scholarship. I sincerely believe the makeup of this team added to the current committed recruits will make Louisville a strong final four threat the next few years after this year. Can we beat a UConn? No one will beat UConn until Stewart graduates. Post Stewart? Yes, I think we will be one of the teams capable of doing it. At the same time, until it's done, Geno and UConn remain on a plateau, a notch above everyone, Notre Dame, South Carolina, Duke, Baylor, Maryland......everyone.

 

[jennyo70]

No, you are comparing apples and oranges. Geno is not over-recruiting at all! While it's unfortunate that UConn has had women transfer, the decision has been the choice of the transfer. At Louisville, it is pretty clear that Jeff is planning on some of his presently committed players not having their scholarships renewed, as they are too few spots for players already. While few players will ever volunteer that they were kicked off the team, it is pretty clear that he is planning to eliminate the dead wood once he sees how they develop. Geno NEVER had to clear space to sign anyone, so it's a completely different animal. It seems as if Jeff is telling each recruit that they are the missing piece, when it is clear that these players cannot all be THE missing piece.

In regards to your statement that the players know who is committed and such, that is not completely true. If you are an incoming freshman, you may not have known that Jeff would do this with the class following you. After you sign your LOI, you are committed.

I do not like the idea of over-recruiting, at all. But to suggest "it is pretty clear" that is what Walz is doing is completely unfair. To the outsiders eye, it looks like that, but the staff knows their roster and they know who may or may not be back. Specifically, Walton, the rs junior. Having already graduated and started her masters during he summer term, she could be finished at the end of her 4th year.

What is clear to me is that people are quick to judge based on their limited knowledge of the situation.

 

[UConnCat]

From the Louisville board, this is the projected roster for 2016-2017:

W- Moore 6'0" Jr
W- Brackmyre 6'1" So
W- J. Jones 6'0" Fr

C- Walton 6'3" Sr
C- DeGrate 6'4" So
C- Dunham 6'4" Fr
C- Johnson 6'4" Fr

PF- Hines-Allen 6'2" Jr
PF- Shook 6'5" Fr
PF- Fuehing 6'3" So

G- Carter 5'7" Jr
G- Jackson 5'4" Sr**
G- Durr 5'10" So
G- Cole 5'7" So
G- B. Jones 5'9" So
G- Zambrotta 5'9" Fr

That's 16 players. If, as expected, Walton leaves after earning her graduate degree, there will be 15 players. Walz is heavily recruiting in the 2017 class for more missing pieces so he must expect some transfers.

 

[UcMiami]

I think there is a transition teams go through typically from being mediocre to being truly competitive. When they are mediocre, just about any moderate recruit can help, and the more you have the more chance of finding that 'diamond in the rough'. Large rosters, and random recruiting are not unusual. As teams get better, the recruits that can actual improve the team and not just clutter the roster and water down the teaching aspect of coaching becomes a smaller pool. That involves a mental transition of a coaching staff and not necessarily an easy one to manage.

Louisville is I think a little unique in that it made two NC game appearances at a very early stage in Jeff's and the team's evolution. They were surprise appearances, and I think changed the national perception of the talent on the team based on results as opposed to actually looking at the players. I think realistically Jeff is now in that transition phase in terms of roster - Durr stands out as his highest ever ranked recruit, and he is finally realistically in the running for a class of recruit he has not typically been able to attract. The next few years may see a much more measured approach to recruiting at Louisville - if not, I think it could easily lead to some discord within the roster.

 

[Orangutan]

Walz must be a heck of charmer in person, but he always looks like a snake-oil salesman to me. I'm always surprised that so many recruits buy in.

Do all 15 of these kids think they're going to play? If so, is it Walz telling them that they'll play or are these kids just confident enough that they all know that some players won't get PT but of course they'll earn theirs? It does seem from the outside that some of these kids are in for a rude awakening and a hasty transfer 1-2 years down the line.

I guess I've never bought into his mystique overall, though. He gets credit for doing less with more because he made a couple of runs to the championship game, but how did his teams perform in the last couple tournaments? Lost as 3-seed to 7-seed Dayton (by 16!) and lost as 3-seed to 4-seed Maryland (who proceeded to get annihilated by Achowna-less Notre Dame).

Now that he's got the talent, it will be interesting to see if he can bring it every year. There are no excuses based on talent level anymore.

 

[UcMiami]

Orang - I am not sure he has ever had a top ten recruit before Durr and when his recruiting classes have been rated in the top 10 it has been mostly about volume and not quality so 'he has done less with more' I think is actually the opposite of how I would classify it - he has taken deeply flawed and under talented teams to the NC game, which is more than most coaches can say.

And I find his press conferences to be pretty honest and engaging - he doesn't complain a lot and he has a good sense of humor. Add that to being from the outside at least a very good coach, and I think he would be appealing to both parents and recruits.

I do wonder about recruits choosing an overstocked team - not the Durr class of recruit but the middle rank ones. But 17 year olds make choices for all sorts of reasons and not all of them make sense to outsiders.
(Stokes, Gardler, Kerns, Buck for example all probably had different expectations when they selected Uconn regarding their basketball careers than the reality they experienced - but I doubt any regret the choices they made.)

 

[Orangutan]

Orang - I am not sure he has ever had a top ten recruit before Durr and when his recruiting classes have been rated in the top 10 it has been mostly about volume and not quality so 'he has done less with more' I think is actually the opposite of how I would classify it - he has taken deeply flawed and under talented teams to the NC game, which is more than most coaches can say.

And I find his press conferences to be pretty honest and engaging - he doesn't complain a lot and he has a good sense of humor. Add that to being from the outside at least a very good coach, and I think he would be appealing to both parents and recruits.

I do wonder about recruits choosing an overstocked team - not the Durr class of recruit but the middle rank ones. But 17 year olds make choices for all sorts of reasons and not all of them make sense to outsiders.
(Stokes, Gardler, Kerns, Buck for example all probably had different expectations when they selected Uconn regarding their basketball careers than the reality they experienced - but I doubt any regret the choices they made.)

I got my words backwards -- I meant that he gets credit for doing more with less. I guess I was already skipping ahead to my conclusion--I'm not sure it's true. Or rather, it's not always true. He's overachieved in a couple of particular years but in others his results have been average.

 

[CocoHusky]

Orang - I am not sure he has ever had a top ten recruit before Durr.

Bria Smith #8
Shoni also #8
in consecutive classes.

 

[UConnCat]

And I find his press conferences to be pretty honest and engaging - he doesn't complain a lot and he has a good sense of humor. Add that to being from the outside at least a very good coach, and I think he would be appealing to both parents and recruits.

Walz is the biggest sideline complainer in WCBB, even more so than Mulkey. He never stops.

As for recruiting and managing his roster, he must be expecting transfers after the upcoming season as he is aggressively recruiting top 2017 players.

I'm not a fan but I will say he and Louisville are a perfect match.

 

[triaddukefan]

Walz is the biggest sideline complainer in WCBB, even more so than Mulkey. He never stops.
.

 

[UcMiami]

Bria Smith #8
Shoni also #8
in consecutive classes.

Thanks for the research - I figured I was probably forgetting some. Still if you look at final eight teams over the years he has been HC, I think Louisville would stand out in terms of lack of top 10 recruits - there might be a few that matched them, but the majority would dwarf in terms of recruit rankings.

Walz is the biggest sideline complainer in WCBB, even more so than Mulkey. He never stops.

Wasn't talking about in game style, but when he is in front of the media. He just seems like a straight shooter after loses as well as wins. (And I think I would vote Mulkey #1 with Jeff at #2 personally! )