Chillious recruiting connections

[LStudfellow]

You obviously missed the entire point of my post.

Execution is a problem, but for me, clearly defining said system is the larger issue. Its not so much an issue of execution as not knowing exactly what you are supposed to execute on.

You say that KO is trying to run pro style sets, but where is the evidence of this? Nobody even moves off the ball in our "sets".

Tony Bennett is at least recruiting the right kids for his "archaic system" which btw has resulted in a heck of a lot more winning lately than our"appealing" one.

HuskiesAllDay, I was debating the point made by TitleTown about our system being a big problem in recruiting, of which there is ample proof that this is not true. Go back and watch the games (easily done thanks to tcf15). Yes, there are way too many breakdowns that turn into 1-on-1 play and passive passing around the perimeter. But that is not what Ollie is trying to get accomplished.

My choice of Tony Bennett was not about whether he was successful or not (he is - regular season. Not so much in the tournament though). But just that if we were running that same type of system then you could point to it as one of our problems.

Unfortunately, our big men kept showing over and over again that they were unable to handle even the simplest of dump down passes. Therefore, the guards started to shy away from dumping it down to them on any consistent basis. Example: loved Brimah's positive attitude, but he has some of the worst hands we have ever seen on a UConn big man.

You want to blame Ollie for the recruiting results of our big men, fine. But to say it is the offensive system we are trying to run is hogwash. A decent system can and does get bogged down and look really bad when the guys trying to run it are failing at even the simplest of tasks. Case in point: our offense this last year, which was unwatchable much of the year.

 

[husky429]

you pretty much got every point wrong.

1.) I agree he has been recruiting versatile players. But we havent actual run the right system to fit them. Which is exactly my entire point!

2.) Our timeout sets and inbound plays have been nothing short of dreadful the last few years.

3.) Our offense has not been good the last few years. Kenpom offensive efficiency rankings last 5 years: 156, 59, 100, 39, 55. Average of 82.

3.) Jalen Adams waiting until there is 5 seconds left on the shot clock and then using his great athleticism blow by ability to get a hoop does not mean we are running great sets for our guards. Or Shabazz making some prayer 3 because he is great.

4.) Vance Jackson was a shooter yes. But he was likely told he would be playing in a free flowing versatile system rather one that required him to stand in the corner. VJ is too slow and athletic to play in this make believe versatile system.

He actually exemplifies all of my points. He thought he was coming to play in a certain system (which he isn't actually cut out for due to lack of quickness and versatility). When we didn't play that way he wasn't happy and left. Ironically Vance ended up fitting the system we actually played much better than the system we told him we were going to play. But he wasn't recruited to do so!

This clearly highlights the problem which is lacking a clearly defined system and then actually playing that way. Only then can we actually recruit the right type of players.

1.) We have the right system for versatile players, but we have had offensive black holes at the 4 and the 5 for years. NBA pick and roll sets are DESIGNED for versatile players, dude.

2) You need to re-check your facts. Facts are that we have been one of the most effecient teams out of time outs. I don't have a subscription to find you the info any more. If someone does, please enlighten.

3) It is not just Jalen waiting and blowing by everyone on the court. Ollie's strength is match ups because of his NBA background. Using screens and motions to get Jalen a solid mismatch, or Shonn Miller on the block 1 on 1, or Brimah an Alleyoop off of the overplay on Adams is an EXCELLENT play. That is not just random blowby's. It's an articulated offense that these players have practiced for years to perfect. You're underselling how much of a skill good screen setting, offensive footwork, and spacing are.

4) Vance came to UConn and should have expected to play the role of a versatile role. He didn't want to play the 4. He left. Simple as that, with some Ollie negativity from Dad thrown in there, some chemistry issues and voi la. he's gone.

Ollie is not a perfect offensive mind--he is certainly not Brad Stevens. But the sets he is running are not terrible as you might suggest. He needs to use similar sets but change the STYLE if you will. The fact that you're speaking in absolutes about a very non-absolute game shows me that you probably don't know very much about the complexities of the sport. "casual fan" maybe?

I have had my team practice diagramming UConn's plays for years. They're a little different under Ollie, but they work well. Ollie's 1-2-2 box weave against a zone in particular has the chance to be very, very successful if we get the right personnel. I think you're simplifying what happens on the court too much.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

HuskiesAllDay, I was debating the point made by TitleTown about our system being a big problem in recruiting, of which there is ample proof that this is not true. Go back and watch the games (easily done thanks to tcf15). Yes, there are way too many breakdowns that turn into 1-on-1 play and passive passing around the perimeter. But that is not what Ollie is trying to get accomplished.

My choice of Tony Bennett was not about whether he was successful or not (he is - regular season. Not so much in the tournament though). But just that if we were running that same type of system then you could point to it as one of our problems.

Unfortunately, our big men kept showing over and over again that they were unable to handle even the simplest of dump down passes. Therefore, the guards started to shy away from dumping it down to them on any consistent basis. Example: loved Brimah's positive attitude, but he has some of the worst hands we have ever seen on a UConn big man.

You want to blame Ollie for the recruiting results of our big men, fine. But to say it is the offensive system we are trying to run is hogwash. A decent system can and does get bogged down and look really bad when the guys trying to run it are failing at even the simplest of tasks. Case in point: our offense this last year, which was unwatchable much of the year.

I wasn't blaming Ollie for poor recruiting and I wasn't even saying our system is hogwash. I saying its inconsistent with what we tell recruits and the media etc.

My point is that Ollie is actually hamstringing himself because what we tell recruits is not the system that we actually run.

And because of this, it makes it difficult to find the right type of players which makes developing them challenging. And it makes it hard to keep them happy because what they were told doesn't end up happening.

If you tell VJ he will play a versatile role and then he stands in the corner (which is actually the correct role for him) this will make it tough to develop him and to keep him happy.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

1.) We have the right system for versatile players, but we have had offensive black holes at the 4 and the 5 for years. NBA pick and roll sets are DESIGNED for versatile players, dude.

2) You need to re-check your facts. Facts are that we have been one of the most effecient teams out of time outs. I don't have a subscription to find you the info any more. If someone does, please enlighten.

3) It is not just Jalen waiting and blowing by everyone on the court. Ollie's strength is match ups because of his NBA background. Using screens and motions to get Jalen a solid mismatch, or Shonn Miller on the block 1 on 1, or Brimah an Alleyoop off of the overplay on Adams is an EXCELLENT play. That is not just random blowby's. It's an articulated offense that these players have practiced for years to perfect. You're underselling how much of a skill good screen setting, offensive footwork, and spacing are.

4) Vance came to UConn and should have expected to play the role of a versatile role. He didn't want to play the 4. He left. Simple as that, with some Ollie negativity from Dad thrown in there, some chemistry issues and voi la. he's gone.

Ollie is not a perfect offensive mind--he is certainly not Brad Stevens. But the sets he is running are not terrible as you might suggest. He needs to use similar sets but change the STYLE if you will. The fact that you're speaking in absolutes about a very non-absolute game shows me that you probably don't know very much about the complexities of the sport. "casual fan" maybe?

I have had my team practice diagramming UConn's plays for years. They're a little different under Ollie, but they work well. Ollie's 1-2-2 box weave against a zone in particular has the chance to be very, very successful if we get the right personnel. I think you're simplifying what happens on the court too much.

1.) Respectfully, if we have offensive black holes, then they aren't the right type of players for a versatile system.

2.) could def be wrong on the inbound sets. I don't have data on this, but the eye test indicates otherwise. But this is very objective and non factual so I concede this point if thats what the data says.

3.) the stats that i just posted indicate that we are not, in fact, running great offensive sets. this really isn't arguable. In fact you are sort of contradicting yourself. If we have the right players, and are running great sets, then how can we have such mediocre/poor offensive numbers?

Makes me think we don't have the right players for our offense which was my initial point.

4.) I agree. And this supports my claim that there is an issue with communication/expectations and what actually transpires. This was my other initial point.

I think you are actually agreeing with me, but you don't really realize it.

Either way appreciate the back and forth.

 

[TitleTown]

To use an excellent word from BigErn - this calling out the system Ollie is trying to run as "a big problem" is a total canard.

KO is trying to run NBA-style pro sets. That is what high school kids want to hear and see. Obviously they have dreams of playing in the NBA, so this is a positive selling point, not a negative. Additionally, when he has a full compliment of players he wants to run largely a man-to-man defense. Again, a positive selling point versus, say, Syracuse, who runs their 2-3 zone.

Although we did not run our sets well at all last year, the philosophy is not the issue. The execution definitely is. That is on the coaches and the players.

Now, if we were running Tony Bennett's archaic offensive system at the University of Virginia, I would agree with you.

Edit: Good points by HuskiesAllDay and Uconnbill right before my post.

Yeah, because Wright, Calipari, Coach K, etc have a hard time recruiting and winning with their predominately motion offenses. The pro style offense only works if you have the right players and recently UConn has not had them.

 

[KembaStepback]

UConn has had 7 4 star recruits in the last 3 years and has finished 6th, 6th and 6th in the AAC the last 3 years. How are 5 other schools out recruiting UConn in conference? FYI - all 5 aren't.

And yet Gonzaga has 4 4 star recruits in the last 3 years playing in the mighty WCC and a deep NCAA 2 out of the last 3 years.

Recruiting doesn't seem to be an issue at all except this year.

Weird...could have sworn we made the Final game 3 of the last 4 yrs and won once...

 

[Bonehead]

Weird...could have sworn we made the Final game 3 of the last 4 yrs and won once...

You are comparing gonzaga deep runs in NCAA to uconn 2nd in aac tourney Gosh I didn't think of making that comparison.

 

[Huskybass]

1.) We have the right system for versatile players, but we have had offensive black holes at the 4 and the 5 for years. NBA pick and roll sets are DESIGNED for versatile players, dude.

2) You need to re-check your facts. Facts are that we have been one of the most effecient teams out of time outs. I don't have a subscription to find you the info any more. If someone does, please enlighten.

3) It is not just Jalen waiting and blowing by everyone on the court. Ollie's strength is match ups because of his NBA background. Using screens and motions to get Jalen a solid mismatch, or Shonn Miller on the block 1 on 1, or Brimah an Alleyoop off of the overplay on Adams is an EXCELLENT play. That is not just random blowby's. It's an articulated offense that these players have practiced for years to perfect. You're underselling how much of a skill good screen setting, offensive footwork, and spacing are.

4) Vance came to UConn and should have expected to play the role of a versatile role. He didn't want to play the 4. He left. Simple as that, with some Ollie negativity from Dad thrown in there, some chemistry issues and voi la. he's gone.

Ollie is not a perfect offensive mind--he is certainly not Brad Stevens. But the sets he is running are not terrible as you might suggest. He needs to use similar sets but change the STYLE if you will. The fact that you're speaking in absolutes about a very non-absolute game shows me that you probably don't know very much about the complexities of the sport. "casual fan" maybe?

I have had my team practice diagramming UConn's plays for years. They're a little different under Ollie, but they work well. Ollie's 1-2-2 box weave against a zone in particular has the chance to be very, very successful if we get the right personnel. I think you're simplifying what happens on the court too much.

What a load of crap. Shonn Miller was a great player at power forward in 2015-16. I never once thought of him as a black hole.

 

[husky429]

What a load of crap. Shonn Miller was a great player at power forward in 2015-16. I never once thought of him as a black hole.

I was really referring to facey. Miller was very efficient on the block--notice i said later that setting him up 1 0n 1 was a great play for Ollie.

Im not sure you know what a black hole in this comtext is. Black hole means "nothing comes out" ... That's what a black hole is in space. An object so dense nothing comes out (except hawking radiation lol). That doesn't have much to do with the scoring of the player or anything, just passing. I can't even recall how Miller was as a passer.

Edit: he was .9 assist per game. Sort of actually was a "black hole" in that way. But most bigs are.

Brimah is THE black hole. He was an awful passer and inconsistent back to the basket. If he could have learned to pass back out it would have masked many of his 1v1 deficiencies. I hope he picks that up in the pros because he could be a power with his athleticism and blocking

 

[pj]

I was really referring to facey. Miller was very efficient on the block--notice i said later that setting him up 1 0n 1 was a great play for Ollie.

Im not sure you know what a black hole in this comtext is. Black hole means "nothing comes out" ... That's what a black hole is in space. An object so dense nothing comes out (except hawking radiation lol). That doesn't have much to do with the scoring of the player or anything, just passing. I can't even recall how Miller was as a passer.

Edit: he was .9 assist per game. Sort of actually was a "black hole" in that way. But most bigs are.

Brimah is THE black hole. He was an awful passer and inconsistent back to the basket. If he could have learned to pass back out it would have masked many of his 1v1 deficiencies. I hope he picks that up in the pros because he could be a power with his athleticism and blocking

The worst black holes are ones where a pass in is converted to a turnover or missed shot. Enoch was a massive black hole. Turnover on one third of his touches and missed shots on most of the rest.

 

[CTPride]

Honestly, everything mentioned in this thread contributes in some way, shape, or form to UConn's national perception/recruiting. Yes, being in this piss poor conference hurts us, so does not winning regular season games and being in the top 25, so does losing in the conference tournament.

 

[intlzncster]

During JC's tenure when he had an off year his "system" was questioned.

Just win, the "system" will work too.

Also funny how 'the system' magically seems great when you have a stud upper class PG. I expect our O to luck much better this year, barring injury.

 

[MSGSeven]

The offense has looked brutal for the most part since Bazz's departure. The one exception being the 2016 AAC tournament. I agree that barring injury the offense should look a lot better in 2017-18.

 

[KembaStepback]

You are comparing gonzaga deep runs in NCAA to UConn 2nd in aac tourney Gosh I didn't think of making that comparison.

Not what I said or meant. He said 6th 6th 6th. I'd say 2nd 1st 3/4th

 

[temery]

KO is trying to run NBA-style pro sets. That is what high school kids want to hear and see. Obviously they have dreams of playing in the NBA, so this is a positive selling point, not a negative.

It's only a positive if it works.

 

[Bonehead]

Not what I said or meant. He said 6th 6th 6th. I'd say 2nd 1st 3/4th

Regular season doesn't count. Got it

 

[Huskybass]

Not what I said or meant. He said 6th 6th 6th. I'd say 2nd 1st 3/4th

So I guess being unranked throughout most or all of the season is ok with you. Unreal.

 

[dennismenace]

With Isaiah Thomas and Markelle Fultz playing right up the road in Boston we have two major success stories for Chillious to point to and tell recruits I'm the guy who recognized their talent and I'm the guy who cultivated that talent when others weren't seeing it. One of them is now a close to 30 ppg scorer in the NBA and the other is the #1 draft pick. Chillious is extremely close with both guys and it's fortuitous having them living and playing 1.5 hours away from campus.

Excellent point!

 

[dennismenace]

Our conference is the biggest hurdle in recruiting. I miss the days going to Cuse,Pitt and ND. Now we are left w Memphis and Temple , Cincy as the biggest games. Not to mention no more MSG tournament.No thanks. I don't blame kids looking elsewhere and it's an uphill battle for Ollie.

Making the best of the situation the staff keeps building the non conference schedule with former Big East and other P5 schools.
Not ideal but a way around it for now. It looks like "the dogs, sled and driver" are all starting to pull in the same direction with some significant changes made: players who are all in, talent and depth at recruiting/coaching including S &C and above all unity. Looking forward to next year. With patience and hope.

 

[upstater]

So I guess being unranked throughout most or all of the season is ok with you. Unreal.

Winning counts for more than polls.

If you're asking if I'd rather take UConn's 2016 season over Cincinnati's, then absolutely. Winning the NC and advancing further in the NCAA is more valuable to me than either AP ranking or finishing higher in the conference regular season. For sure.

 

[Huskybass]

Winning counts for more than polls.

If you're asking if I'd rather take UConn's 2016 season over Cincinnati's, then absolutely. Winning the NC and advancing further in the NCAA is more valuable to me than either AP ranking or finishing higher in the conference regular season. For sure.

Do you not understand that being ranked consistently throughout the season due to compiling a very good overall record results in an NCAA tournament bid and a good seed? Having a very good regular season is a building block for post season success. UConn hasn't even made the NCAA tournament in two of the last three seasons and has one NCAA tournament win during that span. UConn has to start compiling better regular seasons if it ever wants to be relevant on the national scene again. Going to the NIT or not even getting an NIT bid just doesn't cut it if you want to be an elite program.

 

[upstater]

Do you not understand that being ranked consistently throughout the season due to compiling a very good overall record results in an NCAA tournament bid and a good seed? Having a very good regular season is a building block for post season success. UConn hasn't even made the NCAA tournament in two of the last three seasons and has one NCAA tournament win during that span. UConn has to start compiling better regular seasons if it ever wants to be relevant on the national scene again. Going to the NIT or not even getting an NIT bid just doesn't cut it if you want to be an elite program.

And yet, even with the seed they got, they advanced further than Cincinnati.

It's a better season when you win the conference tourney and advance further.

Also, isn't it convenient to say 2 out of 3 seasons have been outside the NCAA when you could easily have said 2 out of 4 have been in the NCAAs, or that 3 out of 5 have been at least NCAA worthy? Why paint it in the worst possible light?

Last year was a huge disappointment, but as for 2015, the talent just wasn't there.

 

[David 76]

Did I miss the part about CHILL's connections?

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Did I miss the part about CHILL's connections?

He recruited and helped develop IT and Fultz.

Good reputation. Expectations are high. Results tbd

 

[KembaStepback]

Regular season doesn't count. Got it

So I guess being unranked throughout most or all of the season is ok with you. Unreal.

Way to put words in my mouth. All I'm saying is the tournament DOES matter.